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Why Is Literature so Pessimistic About The Future?
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Gabriel
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Jul 11, 2013 08:40PM
My thoughts about books with dystopian visions of the future can be read at http://storiesbygabrielboutros.weebly...
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Because writers are usually thoughtful, forward-looking people? And they're just passing on the simple, brutal truth about life? Anyone with any brains knows the future is a gyp, a scam, a fraud; a dead-end. Do you really think our species shows a history of success or excellence in our time so far, on this planet?
as I look at my facebook newsfeed at what tens are saying and doing i just think 'wow this must really be the last generation." It's just insane how they think and I really do fear for this country.
We are proving, as a species, to be more clever than wise. We operate on the premise that whatever can be done must be done, without serious consideration of all probable outcomes. Western civilization, the portion of mankind that has the power to exterminate the species, is a runaway train with no one at the throttle. The alternatives to the nation state as the focus of political and military power are pipe dreams and the forces manipulating those powers do not serve at the will of the people.Spengler was correct in prophesying an age of perpetual war among nations ruled by tyrants. In the end--and that end does not look so very distant--events move too rapidly for those out of power to change the course of events and the available alternatives all come to favor the bold and ruthless.
The world goes up in flames and only a scattering of fellahin squat stunned in the ruins.
If that is not the future, tell me how it is to be avoided.
The pioneers of the dystopia used the genre to express their fears about what they felt might come to pass if society didn't change its ways. Their works served as warnings of the worst case scenarios.As a dystopian novelist, I do come across readers who feel shortchanged when they come to the end of some of my darker works and find something much more tragic than they'd expected. People have become accustomed to happy endings. Moreover, they've become accustomed to reading to escape as opposed to reading to think. Dystopian fiction is the antithesis of that.
"Moreover, they've become accustomed to reading to escape as opposed to reading to think."May I heart that?
I agree with what the others said here. And it's no pick-me-up when you look at "1984" or "V" and realise that it's quite a bit worse than described there.
I think that there are certain tendencies that could make one pessimistic about the future. Incidentally, I am reading the Illuminatus! conspiracy trilogy, which, apart from a lot of dope induced rambling includes amazing insights into the world of today (it was written in mid 70s). Nevertheless, I also think that no dark literature is complete without a glimpse of hope at the end of the tunnel (which, quoting the Metallica song, is not a freight train). I do believe in happy endings and I do believe in human perseverance. The reason for this belief is not just a blind optimism... it is in my blood. Coming from a nation that, just in the last 100 years, went through the apocalyptic ordeal of a genocide in 1915, lost independence, was deported, killed, persecuted/viewed as dangerous minority and yet here I am and here we are and each and every one of us is here because of a heroic act of simply staying alive. My great grandfather was an officer in the Turkish army and he, along with other Armenian officers, was taken away, put in some tent and told to wait. He had a gut feeling that things were going to get nasty so he took out a knife he kept in his boot, cut the back of the tent and escaped embarking on an Odyssey-like journey through the Ottoman empire and eventually reaching his family in Marash city of Cilicia province. He then managed to smuggle his family out of the country that was basically slaughtering all Armenians and escaped to Cyprus where he found a new home. None of the other Armenian soldiers and officers from his platoon survived. It is that kind of stories that make one very cautious about the past, the present and the future but also it is that kind of stories that give one hope and reinstate the belief in the immeasurable power of an individual - no matter the circumstances.
What people write is just a reflection of their feelings and beliefs. When you look at the likes of Bladerunner, it died on its cinema release because it didn't match what people imagined of the future.I have some dialogue laying around which explains this thought:
"I hate to say this, but things just aren't going to be the way you image them, or how you'd prefer them to be. It's like a book; you either want the future that's an unbelievable utopia, or an unrecognisable dystopia. What you don't want is the kind of scenario where the future looks just like our world but worse, because it means we're too dumb to learn from our mistakes and too scared to die trying."
I think Vardan's story tells us a lot.There are two answers to the question. The first is what you might call 'the spirit of the age'
We had the enlightenment where man was in charge, God was relegated to the 'god of the gaps' and science was the answer to everything. We evolved to post modernism which said that actually, everyone's opinion is pretty well worth as much as everyone else's and don't tell me what to do.
We've moved on from that to an era which appears to be in reaction to the enlightenment where science is actually the cause of all problems and man isn't fit to be left in charge.
The next era will doubtless be along in the next generation or so (they seem to be coming through faster than they used to, they don't build eras like they did when I were a lad)
Frankly none of them are any more correct than any of the others and are in reality little more than intellectual fashions.
The other answer is education. How anyone who can read can really believe that we're in a worse state now than we were in 1648 or 1917 beats me to be honest.
But the mindset you see in environmentalists (where we're doomed unless we repent, but actually we're doomed anyway) and various 'end time' religious people who point out that we're obviously in the worst of all times and therefore we're doomed (unless we repent etc as with the environmentalists)
As both groups maintain this belief in staunch opposition to the evidence produced by their appropriate religious texts, it is doubtless a human need to know that we're so unimaginably wicked that we're destroying everything.
Probably better than being sort of ordinary and a bit boring.
I suspect a good dash of humility would do them all some good :-)
Jim wrote: "I think Vardan's story tells us a lot.There are two answers to the question. The first is what you might call 'the spirit of the age'
We had the enlightenment where man was in charge, God was rel..."
Good call!
Certainly some fascinating opinions being expressed here. While I love dystopian fiction I think Jim is right on target when he mentions that we are taking a very narrow view of the world and history if we claim we are in worse shape now than we were in the past, or that we are any closer to the end of civilization as we know it, or any other apocalyptic outcome. Reading world history one can begin to think that humanity has lived on the razor’s edge for a long time, although we’ve always managed to survive. Certainly we should pay attention to the warning signs, be they from writers, philosophers, scientists or choose-your-religion; but let's not all get carried away with ourselves by confidently predicting the disasters to come while ignoring the resilience and ingenuity of the human species, or the planet itself. I wonder if the enjoyment in reading such pessimistic fare isn’t a bit like going to a horror movie. We get scared for a while then come out into the sunshine and feel better when we realize that things really aren’t so disastrous after-all. (Or at least, not any more disastrous than they’ve always been.)
Gabriel,The difference between today and previous periods of massive disruption and warfare is the geometric increase in human lethality. Heretofore there was no prospect that Man could exterminate himself. Now that capability exists. Furthermore, population pressures and the accompanying burden on resources have never approached current levels. Weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a xenophobic species under enormous and increasing survival pressure amounts to a hand grenade in the hands of a frightened, half-starved idiot. Eventually, he will pull the pin.
Anthony wrote: "Gabriel,The difference between today and previous periods of massive disruption and warfare is the geometric increase in human lethality. Heretofore there was no prospect that Man could exterminat..."
word!
Writers are typically reflective personas. When one reflects, a person eventually looks forward. When a person looks forward that person sees that all things come to an end. When a person sees that all things come to an end, there is a real tendency to want to define how. When a person attempts to define how, we end up with dystopian fiction. It's a rewriting of a pretend future history, because the initial reflection of knowing it comes to an end scares the hell out of us. What better way to face your fears that to define them?
Now, there are two trains of thought to decide for oneself here (the proverbial chunky versus smooth peanut butter argument):
Storytellers can decide that the future is grim (and it surely is. If one looks far enough, the dark matter in our universe will expand our universe's borders so far the properties of gravity will be overcome. Stars will wink out one-by-one, even black holes, having exhausted all light in our once brilliant sky, will collapse in on themselves and our universe-all time and history, all music and stories, all lives no matter how important or irrelavant-will disappear into the empty, soulless void) or they can write stories about characters who realize that this life is all they get, so they make it count.
As Henry David Thoreau stated, "It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.'
Hope that answers your question.
Anthony wrote: "Gabriel,The difference between today and previous periods of massive disruption and warfare is the geometric increase in human lethality. Heretofore there was no prospect that Man could exterminat..."
You ought to read something that came out of 14th century Italy when war and plague were endemic, their comments seem remarkably similar to yours :-)
A mate just sent me this link which is strangely relevant ;-)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKC21w...
For me, it all comes down to needing conflict for a story. I write sci-fi romance, and while I wouldn't call my setting dystopian, I explore some possible future problems in our world in the imaginary world of my characters. Without it, the story would be rather flat and boring!Does this mean I think the world is doomed? Nope. Sorry. I'm an optimist, and I think that we will face problems, but that we'll rise to the occasion and find solutions as well. And my stories reflect that.
Yes, very glad to be here. I have just published three children's books. Here are the links below. more information can be found at the books' website. www.storybookslife.webs.comUnited States and world wide :https://www.createspace.com/4358163
United States and world wide :http://www.amazon.com/dp/1490975365
Britain :http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1490975365
German :http://www.amazon.de/dp/1490975365
Spain: http://www.amazon.es/dp/1490975365
France: http://www.amazon.fr/dp/1490975365
Italy: http://www.amazon.it/dp/1490975365
URL for your title "Great Son, Mother's Pain."
United States and world wide :https://www.createspace.com/3824245
United States and world wide :http://www.amazon.com/dp/1475031572
Britain :http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1475031572
German :http://www.amazon.de/dp/1475031572
Spain: http://www.amazon.es/dp/1475031572
France: http://www.amazon.fr/dp/1475031572
Italy: http://www.amazon.it/dp/1475031572
URL for your title will be "Adah, The Runaway Girl."
United States and world wide :https://www.createspace.com/4358873
United States and world wide :http://www.amazon.com/dp/1490975756
Britain :http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1490975756
German :http://www.amazon.de/dp/1490975756
Spain: http://www.amazon.es/dp/1490975756
France: http://www.amazon.fr/dp/1490975756
Italy: http://www.amazon.it/dp/1490975756
thanks
Loved the clip provided by Jim. As always, The Onion is spot on with their take-off on where we're supposedly headed. It reminded me that most good dystopian fiction also contains commentary about the state of the present day world.
What I see is a cycling back to 40 years ago when science fiction was also rather dystopic (watch George Lucas' "Empire of Dreams;" he talks about the pessimistic environment of 1970-1975). Films at that time all showed a glum view of the future, a future to be feared.This is why when George Lucas wrote his first draft of what became the entire Star Wars series, he NEVER thought it would sell or do well. Mark Hamill, Carrie Fischer, Anthony Daniels -- they all believed they were making a FLOP!
Except that Star Wars was NOT a flop; it transformed science fiction and fantasy to a OPTIMISTIC view of life and the future. In that new environment, Star Trek was FINALLY able to start production again. Can it be any wonder that Star Trek the Motion Picture came out within a year or two of Star Wars?
Suddenly we were ready to hope again -- with George Lucas and Gene Roddenbury showing us that the world is not ending.
My books ARE optimistic. Even as dark as Ghosts of the Past gets (it's my "Empire Strikes Back" middle chapter of this trilogy arc), there remains that glimmer that tyranny and cruelty will yield to love, light, and a new age.
Perhaps the focus on dystopia is just another cycle of fear. I hope I do not offend by saying that I think specific groups are feeding people's fears and worries, perhaps as a way of trying to gain followers or keep them.
Put in perspective, institutions and corporations (doesn't matter who or what) only exist when they can convince people that 1) there's a specific problem and 2) THEY have the "solution" to this problem. Basic marketing. Create demand, then YOU be the one who can best fulfill this new demand.
If you encourage people to feel afraid then be the ones they turn to for comfort, then of course, your membership increases -- along with any revenue you can generate by increased membership.
We of course can change this by patronizing those organizations promoting a POSITIVE, OPTIMISTIC VIEW of things. Stop thinking the sky is falling and believe the sun will rise again tomorrow. It always has before and is likely to continue to keep rising for quite some time!
If one follows the news and the developments that happen on a day to day basis, the sense of a bright future starts to fade somewhat. One thing notably missing is a vision and inspiration in the leaders of the countries to move in a sustainable direction. Where is the world headed? What is the next frontier? How do you breathe a new life into the world economy? How do you ensure security and don't end up mass-downloading people's data? How do you heed to the people's desires but don't end up with another tyranny?These are all questions that require answers...the lack of the answers or an evident lack of interest in the long term answer to the questions creates uncertainty...uncertainty breeds fear, fear breads pessimistic outlook for the future.In reference to the historic precedents of humanity lows, I just want to note that the 20th century was the bloodiest hundred years of humanity and the advancement in technology has always resulted in increased loss of human life. The uncontrollable arms trade in many parts of the world makes for a very volatile situation in terms of when and where these weapons may be used, which is quite a bit different from the situation in the 19th of 18th centuries.
Vardan: Actually that is INCORRECT that advancement of technology equals increased loss of life. Of course, maybe you only know about WESTERN cultural history. Fortunately, I studied East Asian medieval history.So lets look at other important technological advances:
1) Development of irrigation. What did this do? It make it possible to farm land that was not adjacent to rivers and lakes. Starting out as simple water channels off water sources, it evolved to include water pipelines and aquaducs and ultimately, indoor plumbing, therefore improving sanitation.
2) Under Tang dynasty Empress Wu Zetian, the first AGRICULTURE COLLEGE was created to study and improve agriculture methods and technology. Agriculture became a science.
3) The invention of gun powder enabled faster and somewhat safer quarrying of rock and construction of canals and other infrastructure. While gun powder would eventually be used for weapons (an application the Chinese did not use it for), its primary purpose was engineering.
4) The spinning wheel made it possible to produce textiles as greatly improved rates by mechanizing part of the spinning process. This greatly expanded textile production
These are just a TINY SAMPLE of the technological improvements over the last 2000 years. I think most people would be hard pressed -- except the abuse of gun powder -- to argue they increased the death rates. In fact, the 17th century construction of the Great Canal over the Huang He (yellow river) PREVENTED millions of Chinese from dying in rampant floods. A version of the Great Canal still stands today, helping residents avoid natural disaster.
And what about those improvements on building materials that allow people to be safe in hurricanes, tornadoes, and floods? Are they REALLY a bad thing? Wouldn't you prefer shatter resistant glass if you lived in a hurricane zone? or would you rather just take your chances?
When it comes to the future in literature it is to me no different then creating a farfetched fictional story it can be seen as wild as possible because it's not likely to happen it does in books. We see the future as being either highly technological and advanced beyond our own minds or back to the beginnings fighting for survival in a post apocalyptic world where we are all living like Bosnia. It's just the way we seem to potray our futures but its anyones guess as to what the outcome will actually be which is why it makes for such a great concept story
Jim: The analogy with the situation in 14th Century Italy seems inapplicable. Plague and warfare could have destroyed that society but not all but perhaps a handful of the human race. Population pressures and weapons of mass destruction today could bring that about. Genetic studies recently have shown that Man almost went extinct once and perhaps twice in the pre-homo sapiens past, with no more than a few thousand breeding adults carrying on the species. Add environmental devastation and social collapse to the aforementioned WMDs and we could find ourselves back there again.Laurel: The technological developments you cite had one overriding negative potential, which is being realized in our time: explosive population growth. Its detonation awaited only the eradication of the diseases and famines that had previously limited human numbers.
Gabriel wrote: "Loved the clip provided by Jim. As always, The Onion is spot on with their take-off on where we're supposedly headed. It reminded me that most good dystopian fiction also contains commentary about ..."YES! That is the point to dystopian fiction.
Laurel wrote: "...We of course can change this by patronizing those organizations promoting a POSITIVE, OPTIMISTIC VIEW of things. Stop thinking the sky is falling and believe the sun will rise again tomorrow. It always has before and is likely to continue to keep rising for quite some time!"While optimism is a good attitude, we can't put our heads in the sand or sugar-coat the implications of current events either. Dystopia is social and/or political commentary, a warning of possible outcomes to current issues.
Optimism empowers us to solve problems. Pessimism blinds us to the solutions to these problems. We can either go "oh woe is me, I lost my job four years ago" (which is true in my case) or we can say "the economy is tough, but I believe in myself and I believe that with hard work, I will find another job." Optimism is not denial, it is belief that things can and will be better. The people who survive the most difficult of circumstances are the optimists -- because they hold to the idea that "tomorrow will come" and do not give up when things are tough.we keep believing that there is nothing we can do about life's challenges when in fact, just by holding our heads up high in adversity and believing that we have the power in us to make meaningful changes, we are able to overcome terrible things.
Laurel wrote: "Vardan: Actually that is INCORRECT that advancement of technology equals increased loss of life. Of course, maybe you only know about WESTERN cultural history. Fortunately, I studied East Asian ..."Hi Laurel,
Your points are legitimate and no one can deny the positive aspects of technological advancement. However, the same technological advancement has made it possible:
1. Internet - a global surveilance weapon, no information is private any longer - such intrusion of privacy is unprecedented.
2. Weapons of mass destruction - yesterday, if a tyrant or a radical terroritst group pulled a trigger, it would be a trigger of a gun, today it may be the nuclear launch red button or a chemical weapon bought dirt cheap from some modern age businessmen.
3. Technological/Economy "advancement" has de-railed tha national economies that were bound by some sense of responsibility towards their citizens and brought forth the global conglomerates with dubious moral code.
Leigh wrote: "Laurel wrote: "...We of course can change this by patronizing those organizations promoting a POSITIVE, OPTIMISTIC VIEW of things. Stop thinking the sky is falling and believe the sun will rise aga..."Right on and one can argue that continued survival of the human race is partly due to also literary whistleblowers who bring up issues and make us face the uncomfortable truth.
Vardan wrote: "If one follows the news and the developments that happen on a day to day basis, the sense of a bright future starts to fade somewhat. Of course it does, because these developments are put in front of you by a media which wants stories and bad news stories sell. "Small town experiences revival in fortunes" is not a news story.
One thing notably missing is a vision and inspiration in the leaders of the countries to move in a sustainable direction. Where is the world headed? What is the next frontier? How do you breathe a new life into the world economy? How do you ensure security and don't end up mass-downloading people's data? How do you heed to the people's desires but don't end up with another tyranny?These are all questions that require answers...
No they don't, a lot of them are self rectifying, in twenty years half these questions will have been forgotten and people will be agonising about entirely different ones. (Well those people who like agonising about things will agonise, the rest will just get on with life)
In reference to the historic precedents of humanity lows, I just want to note that the 20th century was the bloodiest hundred years of humanity and the advancement in technology has always resulted in increased loss of human life. The uncontrollable arms trade in many parts of the world makes for a very volatile situation in terms of when and where these weapons may be used, which is quite a bit different from the situation in the 19th of 18th centuries.
Your position is entirely eurocentric, as a proportion of people living the 20th century struggles to hold its own with the 19th, the blood baths in China, for example the Taiping Rebellion of 1850-64 cost 30 million dead.
If the advance in technology has always resulted in increased loss of human life, why are people living longer?
The uncontrollable arms trade is more controlled than it ever was. In the 1860s Krupp was selling guns to the Austrians and point blank refused to stop the trade when asked by his sovereign the King of Prussia on the grounds that free trade was more important than national loyalties. Prussia and Austria were at was some months after this.
Sorry, what were you saying about the bad old days in the 19th century?
Anthony wrote: "Jim: The analogy with the situation in 14th Century Italy seems inapplicable. ..."It's entirely appropriate. You got people running about then shouting woe, woe, we're all going to die and pointing to what they thought were obvious reasons why they were correct.
This happens at regular intervals, For 2006 I came across a website that had collected seven predictions of the end of the world for that year alone. These included an earthquake, a comet hitting us, four different nuclear wars and one second coming of our Lord, Prophesised by a doctor from Puerto Rico.
Vardan wrote: "1. Internet - a global surveilance weapon, no information is private any longer - such intrusion of privacy is unprecedented...."
I have lived most of my life before the internet and even now a vast amount of it happens without the internet or electonics.
You can always just post someone a letter :-)
Hi everyone, my new series of fantasy books had the first one published on the 10/7/13 by Alpha Wolf Publishing. Mary Sumeridge Beginnings. I have a small animation of one of the characters Poppy the troll telling you all about the book on my website. http://maryfilmer.com/ It is really quite cute. If you do go to the website please leave me a message on what you think of it on my face book page as there is a link to the face book authors page on the website and will you like my page while you are there too. Thanks and I hope you like Poppy he is really cute.Mary Filmer Children's Author
Jim wrote: "Vardan wrote: "1. Internet - a global surveilance weapon, no information is private any longer - such intrusion of privacy is unprecedented...."
I have lived most of my life before the internet ..."
Hi Jim,
You are entitled to your opinion just as I am to mine and I respect your outlook for life even though I do not share it.
I do believe in the resilience of human spirit - illustrated by my family's example above but I also believe that there are warning signs flashing and it is also up to us - indie and non-indie writers to talk about them. We may be wrong but its better be wrong and ready than fail to notice the obvious signs and write it all off as another cycle of history. I am a political science and psychology major and could very well counter your arguments with a variety of examples but I will not do it because these examples are still raw wounds in the living memory of many nations.
Totalitarian regimes and the desire of one human being to degrade the other are probably as old as the first cave dwelling dictator but never has the world been in a situation where the repercussions of one idiot's decision is felt across the globe.
The denial of these dangers is a bit like the people who for a very long time refused to accept that Titanic was actually sinking and did you know that Hitler was Time magazine's man of the year in 1938? When masterminding the Holocaust he famously said: "After all, who remembers the Armenian Genocide by the Ottoman Turkey so no one will remember the Holocaust either." Bottom line: we need to learn from our mistakes so as not to repeat them in the future.
You can explore these issues and explore those dangers without pessimism. Contrary to what perhaps most people think, optimism doesn't mean you deny certain dangers exist. It simply says that those dangers are not insurmountable.Resistance to overwhelming odds is NOT futile to the optimist. The biggest problem CAN be solved. If you don't believe that something can change, can get better, you will never seek for ways to make it better.
Ghosts of the Past is a pretty dark book. Terrorists are targeting healing centers and killing a lot of really great, kind folks. Princess Constance becomes the youngest queen in thousands of yen-ars (Beinarian years) because the rest of her family is murdered by terrorists. Kinda depressing. She knows from the beginning that she herself is probably doomed and won't live to old age. That's just the probabilities of her world.
But rather than yield to the hopelessness of it, she enacts a plan and makes quiet preparations that no one -- not her consort, not her children, not her councils -- know about. Those preparations in secret allows ONE of her three children to escape, to live to fight another beinor (day).
A pessimist doesn't do that and gives in to fear and the dangers around her/him.
FYI, my education is in both history and psychology (pre-counseling). I hold to the Humanist school of psychology.
Laurel wrote: "You can explore these issues and explore those dangers without pessimism. Contrary to what perhaps most people think, optimism doesn't mean you deny certain dangers exist. It simply says that tho..."Did I say anything about optimism being a negative trait? Both of my published books are illustrations of what you are talking about - that in the darkest of hours and in the face of seemingly insurmounable challenges - an individual can find the will, strength and courage to prevail.
Your novel sounds interesting, I will check it out.
Another reason literature seems to show the downfall of the future is because it seems as though we don't want to think things in the future are going to be as they are now. Much literature focuses on the futuristic dystopia of how things have evolved but then in the wake of us hitting a new revolutionary peak it all gets shattered and dissolves in an apocalyptic event. Then it talks about how we as humans must start from scratch and live as we either did back in the day or as we do now but in a less then civil way.Think of it as a timeline..current life-new tech future-apocalypse-back to the beginning.
Jim wrote: "If the advance in technology has always resulted in increased loss of human life, why are people living longer? ..."Ahemm. Actually only wealthy, white people living in Western countries do live significantly longer. It suffices to belong, for example, to the ethnic group of Irish travelers and your average sinks to but 40 years lifetime. It already is enough to be poor and white to live significantly less long compared.
The average lifetime of all people living in developed countries who are not wealthy is actually sinking comparatively sharply currently. Infant mortality is on the rise, also rather sharply e.g. in the USA, where it never has been as good as in the EU for instance.
I do have vague flashes of optimism when I see such heroic deeds as those of Snowden for instance. But that doesn't go anywhere when I watch how every country he applied for asylum in reacts.
By the way, I wouldn't consider a future positive in which we all are just alive. Living in a more or less totalitarian state, with extremely restricted lives for the majority, and luxury and freedom for a select few, that's actually worse to living a short, but fulfilled life. It's a worse hell than just war or sickness. Which already writers like Orwell, Harrison or Bradbury foresaw, and which we already have exceeded by a mile and then some, in some areas.
Steelwhisper wrote: "Ahemm. Actually only wealthy, white people living in Western countries do live significantly longer. It suffices to belong, for example, to the ethnic group of Irish travelers and your average sinks to but 40 years lifetime. It already is enough to be poor and white to live significantly less long compared.. ..."
Beware of falling for propaganda. I have given up believing data produced on 'Irish travellers' because the issue in the UK is far too politicised with various pro and anti groups apparently making the figures up as they go along
As an example of this 'Irish traveller' isn't a recognised group on any NHS form I've ever filled in (you can put down 'white, other, Irish' but that's the limit to what I've been able to find)
Steelwhisper wrote: "Jim wrote: "If the advance in technology has always resulted in increased loss of human life, why are people living longer? ..."Ahemm. Actually only wealthy, white people living in Western countr..."
I liked the expression "vague flashes of optimism" and I do not think that any of the damage done by the current world order is irreversible, but, at the same, time, Houston, we got a problem. Until we realize that we do have a problem, we will never start looking for a solution and the longer we wait until we start this search, the harder it is going to be.
Concerning the longevity, once again I agree with you in terms of the relativity of the increased life-span. In the post-Soviet countries, such as Armenia, the life expectancy has decreased to mid 60s for men and mid 70s for women, down from mid 70s for men and mid 80s for women in the course of the last 25 years. The amount of resources "invested" in Africa has heeded close to zero results in terms of eliminating the most basic poverty and stopping the ever raging wars. To confront these and many, many other issues that were discussed above are not to be solved on a global level as any global "solution" is, in fact, the expression of the will of G8 for the rest of the world. Instead, I believe, the solution lies in each separate country finding what really works for them. The EU experiment has shown very profoundly that whatever works for one country (for example Germany) does not necessarily work for the other (for example Greece). The countries are different, the people are different and no one template can serve as a solve-it-all.
Jim wrote: "Steelwhisper wrote: "Ahemm. Actually only wealthy, white people living in Western countries do live significantly longer. It suffices to belong, for example, to the ethnic group of Irish travelers ..."Jim, you don't know what or who I am. I'll thank you for not assuming things.
Vardan wrote: "Until we realize that we do have a problem, we will never start looking for a solution and the longer we wait until we start this search, the harder it is going to be. ..."There we differ. I'm not sure that there is the possibility for change. The mechanisms I refer to have been in power for the last couple of thousand years, and even the guillotine and the Place de la Révolution weren't able to change them significantly.
As to longevity, it's currently coming down quite sharply everywhere for anyone not upper class. Scientific research or medical progress is helpful only if it is administered and available.
Steelwhisper wrote: "Vardan wrote: "Until we realize that we do have a problem, we will never start looking for a solution and the longer we wait until we start this search, the harder it is going to be. ..."There we..."
I disagree based on, once again, my personal experience. I work at the largest and oldest humanitarian foundation in Armenia coordinating a wide range of projects in all the spheres of infrastructure, health care, education support and economic facilitation. We work in war ravaged border communities of Armenia as well as the regions still reeling from the impact of natural disaster. The projects we carry out do bring change and a better life for the people of these communities. These physical changes also bring forth additional understanding of one's own rights and a more audible voice in demanding their due from the state.
Once again, I may be wrong, but I'd rather be wrong in assuming that there is still a vague light at the end of the tunnel as opposed to living in the continuous shadow of doom and gloom. There are indeed enough positive examples that may, one day, generate the critical mass needed to push the world forward.
It's the global picture which causes my pessimistic attitude. I don't see where a tiny advance for a fragment of a rather small populace outweighs the steps backwards or stagnation of huge chunks of humanity. I agree that you may effect some positive changes for maybe 50-100,000 people, but please, at the same time we have 50 and 60% of the Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, and Irish youths without jobs or perspectives in their lives. Just one aspect, but it already outweighs, if you care to weigh such things, your positives a hundred-fold.
It's like what I stated earlier. Wonderful that there is e.g. a gene test to discover whether a woman is likely to develop breast cancer. Wonderful that there exists elective surgery, which not just cuts down the risk of dying from this cancer, but also gives a great end-result. Only, all of that isn't helpful to people in general, when the test and treatments are affordable only to the likes of Angelina Jolie.
Currently we're taking one step forward and two backwards, and that's not going to change soon as far as I can see.
Steelwhisper wrote: "It's the global picture which causes my pessimistic attitude. I don't see where a tiny advance for a fragment of a rather small populace outweighs the steps backwards or stagnation of huge chunks o..."What would be your suggestion in tackling the situation?
Vardan wrote: "What would be your suggestion in tackling the situation? ...";)
I would be an optimist if I had one, wouldn't I? I'm not sure there are easy solutions. One might be to have a close look at the financial system we favour.
Steelwhisper wrote: "Jim, you don't know what or who I am. I'll thank you for not assuming things. "You could be a 90 year old single lady living in the Welsh borders, or a twenty something Nigerian working in a youth project in the North of England, (I have friends who fit into both categories,) but not wishing to give your name doesn't mean you can make assertions without bothering to give evidence to support them and expect them to be unthinkingly accepted.
http://www.dohc.ie/press/releases/201...http://www.dohc.ie/about_us/divisions...
http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-s...
Not that hard to find and definitely not originating from the NHS.
And I suggest you still take your assumptions about who or what I am elsewhere. You've no idea and quite frankly, and something which is fortunately rather rare here on GR, I'm getting both a decidely racist and sexist vibe from you.
http://www.360opps.com/armenian-talk/...My interview, touching upon some of the topics discussed here.
Steelwhisper wrote: "http://www.dohc.ie/press/releases/201...http://www.dohc.ie/about_us/divisions...
http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-soci..."
Numbers for travellers/Gypsies in the UK from http://www.bemis.org.uk/resources/gt/... which is at odds with the 2011 census figures.
I can see the dystopian nature of this story. I can also see why so many Irish Travellers move across to the UK
