Does anyone else find Mr.Knightly not attractive?

[Mathis]

I remember reading this book and finding Mr.Knightly's temperament and description rather displeasing. He came across grouchy, gothic and somewhat old. It seemed as if he always had a chip on his shoulder, and spoke to Emma in a scolding tone. I felt he was not the right love interest for her. There was not one romantic bone within him.

What do you think?

[kellyjane]

I experienced Mr. Knightly very differently. I guess it was clear to me all along that he loved Emma-- after all, he focused so much of his attention on her, whether admiring or criticizing in a given situation. Had his criticisms been mean-spirited, it would have been obnoxious; but always they were straightforward, expressed with consideration, and implicitly respectful as they addressed her in rational terms as a fellow rational creature. He cared about her, and only criticized what he perceived as significant errors in judgment, while maintaining an overall regard and affection through every conflict. He did not try to diminish her in any way: he knew that no one else in her world would tell her difficult or unpleasant impressions of her conduct; and he bothered to risk it, appealing to her better self or senses as he perceived them to exist within her, rather than demeaning her. He cared; and Emma could not fail to recognize and know this, even if through most of the story she did not want to see that he also loved her. (So she avoided looking into her own heart by playing at seeing into everyone else's: she did not want to 'grow up', because she could not imagine how she could possibly deliver such a 'blow' to her father. That at least is my 'psychoanalysis' of her deeper motives.)

I guess the point that I'm striving to make is that Mr. Knightly played an absolutely essential role in Emma's life: without his sturdy, sensible, fair-minded and judicious influence, she would have had no one at all to bump up against, no one to stimulate her to look inward, no one to invite her compellingly to relinquish playing at life in favor of taking a mature step into it.

And I think you're right that he's not a classically romantic hero. But Emma needed a grounded, clear-seeing, principled, but considerate and compassionate man-- she needed a Mr. Knightly, who had a heart of gold and mind of vigor.

Obviously I am defending Mr. Knightly as a matter of opinion rather than fact. All in all he is my favorite leading man of the entire JA ensemble, which is saying something because I love Mr. Darcy and Captain Wentworth each enough that I surely would have entertained and encouraged their attentions had I been a character in their stories ...

[Chelsea]

I agree with kellyjane and just want to add that some of what he said was done so with light-hearted humor. He is king of the dry wit, he's not supposed to be always taken seriously. Most of the time when he is lecturing Emma it is because she is doing something truly damaging. Separating Harriet and Robert Martin, encouraging Harriet's feeling for Elton, insulting Miss Bates. She needs to hear the truth and no one else will tell her.

You also have to remember that he is 37 to Emma's 21, if he seems "old" it is often in comparison with Emma's youth and immaturity. Jane Austen loved to show contrasting personalities. He's a very mature, logical, sensible man (which doesn't appeal to everyone), Emma is very impetuous and naive. They make a perfect couple because he helps her to see logic and she helps him have fun.

Knightly is also my favorite Jane Austen hero.

[Regina]

I felt Knightly, as friends with her father, probably looked on her as a child at first and probably treated her as one. I believe he saw the fine potential and scolded her sometimes just because he thought so highly of her. So, he didn't come across as unkind but rather...encouraging. I do see how a reader could find some of his manner displeasing but I believe his demeanor lends to the realism in the story.

[Kael]

I ACTUALLY DIDN'T LOVE THIS BOOK ON HOW IT TURNED OUT. I did not actually envision Mr. Knightley attractive. I strongly believe that they do not have any chemistry with Emma. I'm so fucking pissed off after reading this book. I mean, REALLY!!

[Marren]

Emma and Mr. Knightley are one of Austen's couples that I find odd. They seem more like big brother and little sister. The age difference and their interaction just did not give me that spark vibes. Well I guess love can come softly( erhem or not). I can feel the love between Robert Martin and Harriet Smith, Jane Fairfax and Frank Churchill, even Mr. Weston and Ms Taylor but I just do not see Emma and Mr. Knightley's. Sure the film adaption give that impression for example the 1996 (Kate's version) but I just do not feel it from the book.

[Readingmom]

I think that the way you perceived Mr. Knightley was fairly accurate, Mathis. He is considerably older. He is also, as Emma's brother, prone to talking to her in a lecturing manner.

It's also not really the most romantic story. Emma ends up marrying an old dude who she basically thought of as her brother growing up, and they agree to continue living in her house with her hypochondriac father. Um... yay?

[Anita]

I have to disagree, I found him very appealing and handsome because of his age.

[Hermione]

OHHHHH mr knightly... Well it doesn't really matter if you like him or not seeing as Emma's already stolen him away from me :(

[Carolina]

Readingmom wrote: "I think that the way you perceived Mr. Knightley was fairly accurate, Mathis. He is considerably older. He is also, as Emma's brother, prone to talking to her in a lecturing manner.

It's also not ..."
Not yay, really. But in the end, it is logic that she would marry the only one who did not often indulge her along the plot. He is older, wiser and less given to accept her faults, a proper father figure. Instead of that disgusting 50 Shades of Mr. Darcy, one could easily picture that spoiled selfish girl bend over his knee learning a lesson or two.

[Yue]

kellyjane1212 wrote: "I experienced Mr. Knightly very differently. I guess it was clear to me all along that he loved Emma-- after all, he focused so much of his attention on her, whether admiring or criticizing in a g..."

Amen!

The first time I've read Emma I admit I did not like Mr Knightley as much as I do now. But watching the BBC TV series helped a lot (Jonny Lee Miller did a splendid job), nad now he is one of my favorites JA heroes.

[Hannah]

Come on guys, the only reason why Mr Knightley lectured her was because he really cared for her. I would love someone like that to care for me. Emma was also quite selfish. Also, back in those days people did marry with huge gaps between them. Emma and Mr Knightly were not so much brother and sister so much as true friends.

[Carolina]

Hannah wrote: "Come on guys, the only reason why Mr Knightley lectured her was because he really cared for her. I would love someone like that to care for me. Emma was also quite selfish. Also, back in those days..."

I agree with you. But that does not deny or even diminish the strong impression that he is a father figure, which many husbands did back then.

[kellyjane]

I can understand the different points of view about Mr. Knightley (and after all it's a matter of individual taste in the end). And I suppose that he can be seen as a father figure, although a lot of men at age thirty-seven might seem like a father figure in marrying a twenty-one year old. Whatever the case, it seemed to me that they had genuine affection, respect, and love for each other, which seems a pretty solid basis for a marriage.

And of all the characters in the book, it is hard for me to picture Emma marrying any other type of man but Mr. Knightley. Certainly I can't picture her with a Mr. Elton type, whose only 'charms' were affected and artificial-- or even a Frank Churchill type, whose charms were more genuine but who so resembled Emma's own personality that they really seemed 'two peas in a pod' to me, quite like brother and sister in that they enjoyed each other's company in a lively 'conspiratorial' sort of way (in the same flavor that, say, Mary & Henry Crawford did). The 'Frank Churchill' type of man would have brought into Emma's life only what she already possessed on her own in excelsis: mannered and polished lively mischievousness as a shared personality trait.

Anyway, it seems to me that if Emma did not marry Mr. Knightley, then she would have had to meet and marry someone like him in order to have a good chance at a happy marriage.

[kellyjane]

Something else has occurred to me that seems worth some elaboration. From Emma's point of view, Mr. Knightley stands as the very opposite type of man and person than her actual father: he is sensible, practical, industrious, capable and effective; he does not 'stand on ceremony' in his social interactions with others; he will never need the kind 'infantilizing' caretaking that Mr. Woodhouse requires and depends upon from Emma; and very unlike Mr. Woodhouse, Mr. Knightley does not see Emma as perfect and without flaws, and is willing to be honest and forthright about that. I am not sure how much he really lectures Emma throughout the novel: he definitely disagrees with some of her behaviors and tells her so in candid terms. As she was growing up, he did try to influence her to develop different abilities in a more dedicated way; but when she reached adulthood, he seemed to accept that Emma likes to dabble rather than dedicate. He did actually lecture Emma about her treatment of Miss Bates, which is to say that he not only judged her behavior negatively but also explained why he felt that she had acted poorly. But I can't fault him for it, because she had humiliated someone who many people, including Emma herself, actually felt real affection and sympathy for.

I admit that the terms 'father figure' and 'lecturing' are a little troubling to me, not because they aren't understandable (they definitely are), but just because I'm not sure that they do justice to breadth of real feelings that each character had for the other ...

[Carolina]

Yes, nothing's worse than those couples that seem like a mirror in front of each other. In JA's books you can see them in Maria Bertram and Henry Crawford; they grow tired of each other soon precisely because of it.

[Elaine]

I think many people are turned off by the age gap between Emma and Knightley, and this colours our perspective of the romance between them. I used to think similarly but a friend of mine is married to a man 26 years older than her, and after more than twenty years of marriage she still talks about him and their marriage with passion.

[kellyjane]

@ Carrie

It definitely seems that way to me too. I think that my ideal at least is more like couples being complementary than mirrors of each other. And I admit: I want Emma to have someone whose personality is sturdy and upright as an oak tree, because hers is so diffuse and extravagant more like a wild garden or something.

[[deleted user]]

I think he is old, well maybe not really old. But old considering that Emma is still quite young.

Of course it was true love, but nobody could compare to Edward Ferrars, (most certainly)Mr. Darcy, and even that detestable scum by the name of John Willoughby. ;-)

[Melissa]

I agree,I was confused by the relationship. It was too much like a stereotypical father figure relationship to me and I thought Emma above that sort of emotional baggage.

[[deleted user]]

Melissa wrote: "I agree,I was confused by the relationship. It was too much like a stereotypical father figure relationship to me and I thought Emma above that sort of emotional baggage."
Totally agree. I could understand him being a crush, considering how he's a family friend and one to be admired. I suppose she had reason to fall in love with him. Yet I feel somewhat disappointed. Jerk though he was, Elton seemed almost more suited for her than Knightley.

Hate to stereotype, but Emma is not one I would expect to admire Knightley to the point of it being real love (other than for a friend)

[Sorrel]

I expected them to get together from early on because I figured out that the film clueless that I had watched was based on Emma and told from a teenagers point of view. I think once you realise the outcome and read it again you may see a different side because whilst reading and knowing the outcome I picked up on many aspects that made me see love sort of... simmering.

[Anne]

Carolina wrote: "Readingmom wrote: "I think that the way you perceived Mr. Knightley was fairly accurate, Mathis. He is considerably older. He I also, as Emma's brother, prone to talking to her in a lecturing mann..."

Okay.... So you are a saying that he should sexually assault her? That he should commit a crime?

[Jeanette]

Mathis wrote: "I remember reading this book and finding Mr.Knightly's temperament and description rather displeasing. He came across grouchy, gothic and somewhat old. It seemed as if he always had a chip on his s..."

I have actually just finished writing a satire I'm calling "Jane Austen Lied to Me." In the book, my heroine faces a modern-day Mr. Knightly. Having a crochety old friend of the family criticizing you all the time isn't as romantic as one might think...

[T.L.]

He is a bit of a father figure to be true, but as a fairly sensible person myself, I do appreciate his good sense, and, what other young man would be so kind and indulgent to her father? That is a sign of a very good man.

[Isabelle Araújo]

YES! Mathis, I am so glad someone thinks the same! It feels like everyone is in love with him and I honestly have no idea why. My feelings here may be a tad too strong haha, but I really dislike him as a love interest. He is rude, arrogant, and very conceited, he seems to think his own opinion to be the best possible, his own values to be greatest, his entire personality is quite holier-than-thou.

He certainly speaks to Emma in a scolding tone that is quite dry and not at all funny. He tells her she is entitled, spoiled, judgmental, and jealous without flinching and quite rudely, also failing to notice he himself has all of these characteristics just as well. I can’t even imagine saying those things in a row to any friend, and he says them during conversation, like it is quite natural to scold someone in such a manner. He does not play it like a joke or says this during a serious conversation, he says this during normal conversations with the crystal clear intention of molding her to HIS expectations of what a woman should be. I mean, it is obviously okay for you to think a friend or a partner could improve in a few aspects, but he strongly implies she is not an accomplished young woman, which not only is a devaluation of the highest order in that time but is also untrue. She is not as accomplished as Ms Jane Fairfax, of course, but that does not make her own accomplishments unworthy, and, obviously, there are many other ways to approach the subject if he truly does wish for her to better her skills, which in itself is not the problem, truly what vexes me are the tone and manner he uses to approach this topic.

Some people said that because he is older he knows better and therefore could see in her “the potential for greatness” and what she could become if she bettered a few (a lot, in truth) of her traits, but it is quite strange to me that people would find it romantic to fall in love with someone who scolds you “into your place”, to be in love with your own personal trainer, which is basically what he is 😅

Considering he is *sixteen* years older than her makes every one of his judgments sound even worse. It is truly, truly weird because he has seen her as a baby, a little girl, he saw her go through puberty, she grows a little older and then he falls in love with her? I find it truly odd. I honestly don’t think I would ever like such a man in my life.

I do not find him good-mannered, I think he is a reproaching figure who is just a little less worse than his brother John but who has all of his brother’s manners Emma finds irritating. Worst thing is, John as a secondary character makes me laugh, George being not only a primary character but also the love interest irritates me rs.

I will give it to him that he seems to be a person with good intentions who tries to do right by those around him as he did to Jane Fairfax and to a handful of other characters. I also appreciate the intention of being honest when saying what he means to Emma, which IS very important to someone who only hears praise, I do value honesty very highly; however, his tone is quite fatherly, quite consistently reproaching, his words are not “well-bred” during his frequent moments of honesty with her, and the age difference (plus he seeing her grow up) just adds up to a terrible sum, in my opinion.

[I promise I am now concluding 😂] For all that, I do not think he is suited to be love interest of someone so much younger than him, maybe if she was 30 their dynamic would be less “father figure and girl with daddy issues”, but, alas, this is not what we have here.

[Mathis]

Isabelle Araújo wrote: "YES! Mathis, I am so glad someone thinks the same! It feels like everyone is in love with him and I honestly have no idea why. My feelings here may be a tad too strong haha, but I really dislike hi..."

Girl, you had a lot to say...lol... but you made some great points.

Mr. Knightly's aura was very fatherly indeed....a cranky one though...lol... I guess his loneliness, age and responsibilities caused him to be a bitter betty.

There could be consequences dating someone twice your age. Mr Knightly came off as Mr. Know It All, and took himself too seriously. Emma's attitude was light, playful and meddlesome which came across as foolish in Mr. Knightly's eyes. I understand opposites attracts, but Mr. Knightly didn't exude any seduction. I felt like they just settled because they couldn't find anyone to put up with their antics.

Who to say they will last? Who to say Emma's self-esteem wouldn't spiral downhill from Mr. Knightly's criticisms as time goes on? Their romance didn't leave me feeling fuzzy, or hung over.

When I finished the novel, I only wished them the best of luck.

But I can see where Jane Austen was coming from in this novel...love comes in many forms, even if it looks disagreeable to others.

[Isabelle Araújo]

hahah i sure did, i am sorry

"I felt like they just settled because they couldn't find anyone to put up with their antics." you said it perfectly, it really did not feel like love or infatuation on either parts, whereas in Frank and Jane we see deep affection

"But I can see where Jane Austen was coming from in this novel...love comes in many forms, even if it looks disagreeable to others." indeed! she really portrayed a few different couples throughout her stories, even if in the background

[Jeanette]

Isabelle Araújo wrote: "YES! Mathis, I am so glad someone thinks the same! It feels like everyone is in love with him and I honestly have no idea why. My feelings here may be a tad too strong haha, but I really dislike hi..."

YES!!! Thank you!

I have been catching a lot of grief for my Mr Knightley portrayal in "My Dearest Miss Fairfax." How dare I say he's not a chivalrous gentleman!

Uh..... because he's NOT...?

I went through Emma and highlighted every conversation Jane Fairfax was part of, or witnessed, or pertained to her, and knit Emma's story from her point of view. One of the conclusions I reached is that Mr Knightley is a big jerk!

There's a scene in "Emma" where Miss Fairfax VERY uncharacteristically walks up to Emma and gushes about how excited she is about the upcoming ball. Why did she do this? She was listening to Mr Knightley bitching to Emma about how he would rather be at home with his steward doing the bookkeeping. He was annoyed about Emma wasting all this effort for an evening of noisy amusement.

A lot of people don't like the character of Emma Woodhouse (including Jane Fairfax!), but in her defense, she always stands up to Mr Knightley and his nonstop efforts to belittle her.

Thank you for joining me in team "NOT Mr Knightley!"

[Isabelle Araújo]

OMG, Jeanette!! You wrote a book on Jane Fairfax, I adore you already! Jane was a very interesting character in Emma and I would really like to know more about her and her pov, I will certainly read your book 🤩

About being on team NOT Mr Knightley: I second that hahah.

[Jeanette]

Hi, Isabelle! My book is called "My Dearest Miss Fairfax," if you haven't found it already. When you've had a chance to read it, PLEASE leave me a review on Goodreads and Amazon? And please let me know what you think! I would love to chat more about Jane Fairfax, and Frank, and Mr Knightley!

Thank you so much for finding me! <3<3

[Annabel]

I feel like a lot of male characters is classic literature are 'unattractive' to a modern reader. They have a condescending nature quite often and just give me old man who likes mansplaining vibes... even Mr. Darcy. My uncle once said that with the character Emma, he believes men fall in love with her, but women want to be her! This is probs kind of true. Anyway I think it's the obvious love and care Mr. Knightly has for Emma which makes him endearing to the reader.

[Via]

Yes, me too. In this kind of book, more often than not, the men seem strangely unpleasant and cold to me, like snow in Siberia. It irritates me to be honest, but I can stand it. Maybe it's just that we as modern people are not used to this mentality? Maybe we just don't understand the conventions of that era and that's why we feel this way.

[Jeanette]

Via wrote: "Yes, me too. In this kind of book, more often than not, the men seem strangely unpleasant and cold to me, like snow in Siberia. It irritates me to be honest, but I can stand it. Maybe it's just tha..."

"Unpleasant and cold as snow in Siberia" is a great way to put it! Lol!

I think you're right, expectations and what's socially acceptable change, and it's hard to wrap our brains around what other generations were willing to live with, or even find desirable!

Jane Austen's brooding men frequently modeled on Lord Byron, who was a rock star of their time. There is probably an element of charisma that is hard to quantify...and at the same time is just like the way we look at Hollywood celebrities now.

I am also put in mind of the "Shades of Gray" books - there was a meme going around about how if he was poor instead of rich, the story would not be romantic... (I only read part of book one, so I don't truly know how good of an example this is)

[Jen]

Honestly no leading man in a Jane Austen novel would be attractive today. Imagine hearing Edward Ferrars' speech about how he's too lazy for any career, or Darcy and Bingley just sort of meandering around the country renting random houses so they can go hunting and complaining how boring the locals are. I'm re-reading Emma right now and suddenly John Knightly is my favourite character in all of Jane Austen. Why? Because he has an actual job! When they show up at Christmas, it's only for a week because that's how long he can stand here are we setting forward to spend five dull hours in another man's house, with nothing to say or to hear that was not said and heard yesterday, and may not be said and heard again tomorrow

[Jeanette]

Jen wrote: "Honestly no leading man in a Jane Austen novel would be attractive today. Imagine hearing Edward Ferrars' speech about how he's too lazy for any career, or Darcy and Bingley just sort of meandering..."

Lol! I also like John Knightley. At least as a character. He's humorous in the way he's always cranky. It no doubt would be tiresome to LIVE with him, complaining nonstop like that.

[Jen]

Well, to be fair, he does have to live with Isabella and her wacky theories about air and the perfect consistency for gruel and the relative merits of sea bathing at South End vs Cromer, all supported by Mr Wingfield.

[Jeanette]

There is no mechanism on Goodreads for portraying LMAO... or snorting Coke out my nose. Serves me right for drinking and reading email at the same time.