Literary Disco discussion
Finnegan's Wake-Up
Rider wrote: "PS: Kevin, do you know Latin? (I'm sure you've mentioned which languages you know but I'm too lazy to scroll back). I only did a year in high school and 99% of that's gone, but I'm assuming the extended passage on 185 is actual Latin. Although, knowing Joyce it might be some faux Latin or combo of languages."It probably is almost entirely Latin, although i only know this because i passed it through Google Translate just to see. Didn't help very much in actually rendering the passage comprehensible.
I know French pretty well, and enough German and Swedish to, if not understand a word, at least recognise it and know to check a dictionary. Also, Chinese, but that hasn't been particularly helpful here, quite naturally i think, except that one time Confucius and his home town were referred to in romanised Mandarin.
I would agree that this chapter is Shaun libelling Shem. That is how i would understand, on yesterday's page 187,
"JUSTIUS (to himother): Brawn is my name, and brown is my nature..."
Brawn is Shaun, and he is acting as Justice, that is, as a judge, raining pronouncements of guilt upon Shem. On today's page 191, for example, i think Shaun is accusing Shem of impurity, and of defiling him.
First he refers to Shem as a "semi-semitic serendipitist" and a "Europasianised Afferyank". (i.e. of impure blood, an opportunistic Jew and a Europeanised, Asianised, African-American)
Then he describes an "other" (line 13), clearly really himself, Shaun, as being "Immaculatus, from head to foot, sir, that pure one...", a "goodlooker with not a flaw", who is "laid low with one hand one fine May morning in the Meddle of your Might..."
I'm not sure if Shem is deserving of everything Shaun is laying against him, but it seems to me at least that Shaun is not such a likable guy himself.
Days 37 & 38What is this “gallic acid”(p185) that Shem has used to write on his body with? Something “produce[d] from his unheavenly body” (p185). “Obscene matter” (p185), “foul clay in little clots” (p186). ?????????? Actually, I’m not sure I really want to know.
A significant shift in narrative on page 187 marks a clearer identity in narrator:
“for no longer will I follow you obliquelike through the inspired form of the third person singular and the moods and hesitensies of the deponent but address myself unto you, with the empirative of my vendettative, provocative and out direct”
This clause is a gift because it effectively answers the questions we’ve been asking of this chapter: ie Who is the possessor of the narrative voice? Not only does this clause state: ‘This is my voice; these are my words’, it draws attention to the pitfalls of the third person narrative used until this point (reliable / unreliable? omniscient / biased?) and highlights the advantages of first person (the ability to express imperatives with mood and feeling and in this case: express the bias of vendetta and provocation). Instantly, the narrative voice becomes a character.
Provocation and vendetta aside, there is real challenge and simultaneously, intimacy in the words which follow:
“Shem Macadamson, you know me and I know you and all your shemeries. Where have you been in the uterim, enjoying yourself all the morning since you last wetbed confession? I advise you to conceal yourself, my little friend, as I have said a moment ago and put your hands in my hands and have a nightslong homely little confiteor about things.” (p187-8)
This is tender, yet critical; turning to the intimacy of the uterus (twin brother / mother?) and the need to share, guide or force confession of sins through prayer.
I feel particularly drawn to the “you know me and I know you and all your shemeries” line. Shemeries: Shem’s traits, feelings and behaviours? Shameful history? Shared memories?
“Do you hold yourself then for some god in the manger, Shehohem, that you will neither serve nor let serve, pray nor let pray?” (p188) - judgement / polarities / critical
“we all swim together in the pool of Sodom? I shall shiver for my purity while they will weepbig for your sins.” (p188) - To me, this says, ‘None of us are blameless, but while I mourn my purity, you are too far gone’. I like the contrast of “shiver” (gently crying?) and weepbig” (sobbing?).
Kevin, I agree with your comment that there is an accusation of defilement:
“And the good brother feels he would need to defecate you.” (p193)
Other elements that spring out to me:
“you have become twosome twiminds” (p188) - splitting of self /splitting of twins / dissociation?
“philtred love” (p189) - brotherly love / filtered love / philos = loving (Greek) / phile = love
“You will need all the elements of the river to clean you” (p188) - returns to the imagery associated with the mother, and the cleansing nature of religious confession, baptism, maternal love. The mother seems to be playing a role in this fraternal war, but I can’t grasp it yet.
“weep cateracts for all me” (p192) - more imagery of unhealthy, crying eyes
“my ghem of all jokes” (p193) - nod back to the opening line of the chapter. "Shem is as short for Shemus as Jem is joky for Jacob". Also interested in "johnjacobs" (p188) and how this links back to the same opening line, tying the name Jacob to the concept of farce. John, being the English translation of Shaun and the full use of the name Jacob (rather than Jem, Gem or Ghem), implies that maybe Shaun (at his own instruction) is not a joke.
“cannibal Cain” (p193) - Another reference Cain and Abel - Cain killed his brother Abel in a jealous rage because he perceived that God favoured Abel. Which Earwicker brother is which? I wonder....
“Cadbury would go crackers.” (p193) - Hmmmmm..... chocolate.....
Day 39OK, so some light has been shed:
“it is to you, firstborn and first fruit” (p194)
“O me lonly son” - (p194)
These are the words of Shem’s mother, Anna Livia (ALP).
My question is, when did she take over the narrative? Given the harshness of the first part of the chapter, I don’t think it’s been her the whole time. (?) Was it when the 3rd person changed to 1st person on page 187, page 193’s “MERCIUS” [mercy] challenge to page 187’s “JUSTIUS” [justice / judgement / just us], or somewhere in between? Honestly, I’m not sure.
However, it is now clear that this is a lament and defense of Shem by his mother:
“I could not defend you like a woman, lo you there” - (p194)
“and lo, you’re doomed” - (p194)
Interesting that previous references to Shem as “low” are now “lo”, no longer a judgement, but now drawing attention to something extraordinary, albeit damaged / condemned.
There is an interesting section on page 194, with devil / Hell imagery:
“the child of Nilfit’s father, blzb, to me unseen blusher in an obscene coalhole...”
blzb - Beelzebub
Nilfit’s father - unfit father?
Is this saying that Shem’s father is evil? That this has condemned Shem to the “low” life he allegedly leads? Mention of the “royal one” (p194) and the “king” (p193) links back to HCE’s trial where he was referred to as the king. I really want to get a firmer grasp on the relationship between HCE and ALP. Does anyone have a strong sense of them?
Either way, it seems to me that Shem’s sins are exonerated in the eyes of Anna Livia. There is heartbreak and yearning in the words:
“O me lonly [lo / lonely] son, ye are forgetting me!” - (p194)
Anna Livia has so far been symbolised as a river. It is ironic that in 1.8 women are gossiping about Anna Livia, whilst washing their “private linen” (p196) in the river, when Anna Livia is the river and everything in it.
“all that has been done has yet to be done and done again” (p194) - more references to the cyclical life of Finnegans Wake.
Happy five, all (in my case, probably a miscounted five!)
Jenna
Jenna wrote: "“cannibal Cain” (p193) - Another reference Cain and Abel - Cain killed his brother Abel in a jealous rage because he perceived that God favoured Abel. Which Earwicker brother is which? I wonder...."I somehow never thought of this, but now that you've mentioned it it does make very good sense, what with the intense sibling rivalry. Also, Shem was at one point addressed as "Shem Macadamson", which is basically "Shem, Adam's son" twice over, owing the the "Mac" (Gaelic) and the "son" (Germanic).
On to Chapter 8. Not really sure what's going on yet, although i think it's quite clear we're talking about ALP here. Not at all prepared to guess at what exactly is being said, so i shall fall back on simply listing some of the interesting things i noticed.
Pg 198
"Havemmarea" - "Ave maria", probably.
"her erring cheef" - HCE
"ruful continence" - Can't help but think of Don Quixote here, The Knight of the Rueful Countenance. Not sure if this was intentional.
Pg 199:
"doomsdag" - Quite transparently "doomsday", but just thought i'd mention, "dag" is "day" in the Scandinavian languages.
"eygs, yayis, and staynish beacons on toasc" - Eggs and bacon on toast again. We saw eggs on toast earlier on page 184:
his oewfs à la Madame Gabrielle de l'Eglise, his avgs à la Mistress B. de B. Meinfelde, his eiers Usquadmala à la pomme de ciel, his uoves, oves and uves à la Sulphate de Soude, his ochiuri sowtay sowmmonay a la Monseigneur, his soufflosion of oogs with somekat on toyast
"cupenhave" - Might be "cup and a half" + "københavn" (Copenhagen)
"Annona, geboren aroosokrat Nivia, dochter of Sense and Art" = Anna, born (of the aristocratic family?) Livia, daughter of Sense and Art.
Pg 200:
"femtyfyx" - "femtisex" = "56" in Swedish.
"holmen" - "the islet" in Swedish, and i suspect other Scandinavian languages.
"two adda tammar" - Quite transparently "two at a time". Just wanted to note that "timme" is Swedish for "hour", and "timmar" plural "hours".
Pg 201
"that was writ by one and rede by two and trouved by a poule in the parco" - "that was written by one and read by two and found by a prostitute in the park". Is this a reference to what happened to HCE way back at the beginning of the book?
"kirkeyaard" - Compare "kyrkogård" in Swedish. Also, Kierkegaard.
Pg 202:
"from Fone-in-Monte to Tidingtown and from Tidingtown tilhavet" - "tidning" is Swedish for the newspaper, hence "tidings" in English. "till havet" in Swedish is literally "to the sea".
"forstfellfoss" - "Forst" is German for "forest". Alternatively, "først", which is Norwegian for "first". "fjell" is Norwegian for "mountain", hence we have "fells" in more archaic English. "foss" is Norwegian for "waterfall". So, "forest mountain waterfall", or if you wish to stick with only Norwegian, "first mountain waterfall".
Rather busy today, so i'll make this quick.Noticed a bunch of rivers in today's five pages, After i noticed the first two the rest came popping up, although i'm certain to have missed quite a few more.
On page 204, there's the river Aisne, which is in Northern France. It's pronounced sort of like "en", and so the phrase it appears in, "hire in her aisne aestumation", might be read "higher in her own estimation".
Spotted two on page 205: The Amstel river, which is the river that gives Amsterdam its name. Then, later on the same line, the Garonne, which is a river in the south of France.
Didn't find any on page 206, though like i said i'm sure there must be a few i missed.
On page 207 i found three: The Rhine, which is a pretty big river anybody who knows anything about Europe has probably heard of, in "rhunerhinerstones". Later on the Zambeze in East Africa, "there's the Zambosy waiting for me". And the Malagarasi, another African river, ""Duodecimoroon? Bon a ventura? Malagassy?"
This time around i expected rivers, and so found a ton of them, including some i would not have recognised if not for the fact i was looking out for words that might also be river names and googling them to check. Again, i almost certainly missed a whole bunch of rivers. A geography nerd would go crazy reading this chapter.Pg 208:
'elb' = Elbe, in central Europe
"Werra where in ourthe did Loveme Long" = Werra, in central Germany. One of those i didn't recognise.
"I'm epte to forgetting" = Epte, in Normandy, France. Another one i had to look up.
"her joki's nose" = "Joki" is Finnish for river.
"the fluve of the tail of the gawan" = "Fleuve" is one of two common words for river in French, the other being "rivière".
"siouler's skirt" = Sioule, in France.
"Mersey me!" = Mersey, in Liverpool, England.
"a koros of drouthdropping" = Körös, in Hungary. Didn't recognise this one initially either.
Pg 209
"North Lazer's Waal" = Waal, in the Netherlands. Branch of the Rhine, apparently.
"I aubette my bearb" = Aube, in France.
"edereider" = Eider, in Germany.
"Vivi vienne, little Annchen" = Vienne, in France.
Pg 210
"a jordan vale tearorne" = The river Jordan, dividing Israel and the West Bank from Jordan.
Pg 211
"a Congoswood cross" = Congo, in Congo.
Pg 212
"Laagen or Niger" = Niger, in Niger. There's also a Lagan in Northern Ireland.
"O'Delawarr" = Delaware.
"Selina Susquehanna" = Susquehanna. Only recognised this because of that Billy Collins poem.
"My colonial, wardha bagful" = Almost didn't get this one, but the word "colonial" and the rhotic sound of "wardha" (this is how a native speaker of an Indian language like Hindi or Tamil would pronounce "what a") made me think, this has to be Indian! Which it is.
"Throw us your hudson soap" = Hudson
Aside from all of this, there were also plenty of times when the language itself made me think of rivers, or moving water: "shimmy", "ran in the washing", "wavy rushgreen epaulettes", "mind the poddle", dribbling her boulder through narrowa mosses", "The rivulets ran aflod to see", "dribblederry", "I'll raft it back", "You've all swirls your side of the current", "Only snuffers' cornets drifts my way", etc.
Is ALP a river? Is the fact that the whole book begins with "riverrun" not merely incidental then?
I noticed on page 205 a reference to two demons in the sentence,"You child of Mammon, Kinsella's Lilith!" Mammon often personifies greed in the new Testament, and in medieval demonology he is one of the 7 princes of hell.
In Hebrew folklore Lilith was the first wife of Adam, who was made of earth as well. She tried to dominate Adam and was thrown out of the garden. She then became the mother of monsters and would kill babies. Joyce was a master of insults.
I would be a bit more proud of catching these references, but being that the line "O, may the diabolo twisk you seifety pin" (diabolo being very similar to diablo the Spanish word for devil) I feel like Joyce was trying to give us a hint (or his version of hint) in this case.
I've been feeling lost, more than the usual, the last few days, and I was happy to recognize these small references.
Days 40, 41 & 42Soooo.... ALP & Water imagery
I’m struck by the progression of the water imagery surrounding Anna Livia.
Now, in all honesty, when I was on page 7 I had no idea what was going on. However, I was struck by this line. Even 40 days later, it is still my favourite:
“Arrah, sure, we all love little Anny Ruiny, or we mean to say, lovelittle Anna Rayiny, when under her brella, mid piddle med puddle she ninnygoes nannygoes nancing by.” (p7)
I’d have to read the book again to know whether or not the ‘Anna’ mentioned is ALP (the name-changing thing continues to perplex...), but at this early stage the water mentioned is evocative of very light rain and playful puddles.
But by page 213, we are awash (ahem!) with roaring water imagery. As well as being set on the banks of the river, this chapter is so bursting with river metaphors, river-activities (sculling and rowing (both p203), baptism (p204)) and everything that Kevin mentions above. (Great spot, Kevin, by the way. After reading your post above I also found “severn” (p199) and “tyne” (p211), which are both English rivers.)
A river can be energetic and calm, it can rush it can ramble, teaming with life and beauty, but also darkness. I’m not sure how much of Anna Livia I can see through the gossip in this chapter, but I imagine that a river metaphor is a positive angle on a character. Speaking of which...:
Anna Livia is also surrounded by life and vivaciousness:
“Vivi vienne, little Annchen! Vielo Anna, high life!” (p209)
Even her name ‘Livia’ seems rooted in liveliness and life.
Today, I have been staring out of train windows and pondering:
We’ve all been spotting references to the Genesis story since Day 1. Countless explicit “Adam and Eve”s, multiple implicit, (ie hidden), “Cain and Abel”s. References to temptation by serpents. In recent days: the Tree of Knowledge and the apple: “wind-blasted tree of the knowledge of beautiful andevil” (p194), “umpple does not fall very far from the dumptree” (p184) and the Garden of Eden: “garden of Erin” (p203).
My question: why?
Are we looking for parallels? Analogy? Foreshadowing?
Why are the references to Adam and Eve so clear (eg Eve and Adam (p3), “Adam and Eve’s” (p197) etc), but the references to Cain and Abel hidden within text (eg “able to raise a Cain” (p47))?
I’ve also been toying with ideas about Biblical significance: Adam’s significance as the first human man; Eve’s significance of a woman built from man / highlighting gender differences; the brothers’ significance as the first children of the earth born by natural conception.
So now I am thinking about ‘Genesis’ as a concept: origin. The beginning.
But Finnegans Wake has no beginning - not in the conventional sense anyway. Even the chapters aren’t numbered. The first sentence is the end of the last sentence of the book. The whole thing is circular.
So... what is the relevance of 'genesis' for a book with no beginning?
And speaking of the first (last) sentence...:
“riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.” (p3)
This captures a number of elements of Finnegans Wake that on August 1st I was unaware of, but have since found to be recurring themes: river imagery (Anna Livia), Adam and Eve, recirculation (*re*circulation) and our first HCE.
Favourite sentence for days 40, 41 & 42:
“In fear to hear the dear so near or longing loth and loathing longing?” (p204)
Something really jumped out at me on page 206. Shaun is described as one of the “swapsons”. Swap sons? Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Finally, I found this line rather amusing:
"If you don't like my story get out of the punt." (p206)
So, what am I learning? When finished, I’ll need to read this book again!
Didn't manage to get anything done yesterday i was so busy, so today i read 213 to 224 (minus 217 and 218, which are blank).First of all, a list of all the river names spotted:
Pg 213: "Altmuehler" (Altmühl), "isker" (Iskar), "suda" (Suda"), "Hoangho" (a.k.a. Huanghe, a.k.a. 黄河, a.k.a. Yellow River; Finally, knowing Chinese comes in useful), "gihon" (Gihon; Biblical, apparently), "senne" (Seine?), "Shannons" (Shannon), "yangsee" (Yangtze, a.k.a. 长江, a.k.a. Changjiang), Pg 214: "irrawaddyng" (Irrawaddy), "Oronoko" (Oronoko), Pg 215: "Kishtna" (Krishna?), "Indes" (Indus?).
Other stuff:
Pg 213:
"Regn onder river" - "Reign under river" or "Rain on the river"?
"Well, you know or don't you kennet or haven't i told you..." - "to ken" is "to know", from Old Norse "kenna", which is "to know" or "to perceive". "Kennen" exists in German, but generally only has the sense of knowing someone. In Swedish one can say, "Jag får en känsla av at..." for "I have a feeling that..."
"Fieluhr? Filou! What age is it?" - Possible "wie viel Uhr", which means "What time is it?"
"childer" - Basically, "children", but archaic. In German "child" is "Kind", and "children" is "Kinder". Hence "kindergarten". Interestingly, the "n" that now ends "children" is also German, so "children" is actually plural twice over. Language is strange that way.
"Allalivial, allalluvial" - "Alleluia" + "Livia" + "alluvial" (+ "alla"? "All" in Scandinavian")
Pg 214:
"creakorheuman" - "Greek or Roman" + "creak o' Rheuma(tism) + "human"
Pg 219:
"... humpteen dumpteen revivals. Before all the King's Hoarsers with all the Queen's Mum." - I guess Humpty Dumpty is back. And also this idea of resurrection.
"Glugg (Mr. Seumus McQuillad)" - Shem?
Pg 220:
"Chuff (Mr. Sean O'Mailey)" - Shaun?
"Poopinheaven" - "Poop in heaven" + Copenhagen. Oops.
Pg 221:
"Gugnir" - Gungir, Odin's spear.
"lokistroki" - Loki. Norse god. Shape-shifter, trouble-maker.
"o.s.v." - "och så vidare", Swedish for "and so on", equivalent to "e.t.c."
"aasgaars" - Asgard, home to the gods of the Æsir, the Nordic pantheon.
"Rocknarrag" - Ragnarøk, Götterdämmerung, Twilight of the Gods, o.s.v.
Pg 222:
"ef thes es whot ye deux, then I'm not surpleased ye want that bottle of Sauvequipeu..." - "If this is what you do, then i'm not surprised you want that bottle of", in an Irish-sounding accent. "Sauvequipeu" is probably "sauve qui peut", "every man for himself".
"...and Oh Off Nunch Der Rasche Ver Lasse Mitsch Nitscht" - Sounds like something in German. "verlasse mich nicht" basically means "abandon me not".
"thugogmagog" - "thingamijig" + "gog" and "magog"
"Neid" - German for "envy" + night.
"a nangel" - "a norange"
Pg 223:
"Copenhague" - Copenhagen
"ill s'arrested" - "il s'arretait", "he was stopping" or "he stopped".
"worden schall" - "worden soll", "should have been"?
"matthued... mark... luked... johntily" - Duh.
Pg 224:
I felt like the last couple of pages had a rather Germanic character to them, while 224 was distinctly Latinate.
"deplurabel" - "deplorable" + Plurabelle
"noces of interregnation" - "nights of interrogation" + "interregnum" + "rain"
"A dire, O dire!" - Oh dear, O dear! + "dire" = "to say" en français
"frilles-in-pleyurs", "plurielled", "Tireton, cacheton, tireton, ba!", etc.
Days 43 & 44First of all, I’m assuming that we are not counting the blank pages between Book I and Book II (Day 43) as part of the 5? I’ve finished Day 44 on page 225.
Today is actually Day 45, but I haven’t done my reading yet! When I do, I will be on page 230. Please can someone tell me if this is wrong / not consistent with the group?
So......
“Lord help you, Maria, full of grease, the load is with me!” (p214) - an interesting washerwoman take on the traditional Catholic ‘Hail Mary, fully of grace, the lord is with me...’ in 1920s / 1930s Ireland this would probably be tantamount to blasphemy! I wonder.... If this book directly stated everything that Joyce wanted to say about Catholicism, it wouldn’t have been tolerated in groups where the religious attitudes were particularly rigid. Maybe part of the role of the disorientating language is intended to veil the deep criticisms of Catholicism and political movements occurring in the country at the time.
“We’ll meet again, we’ll part once more.” (p215) - Cycles and loops again...
“Anna was, Livia is, Plurabelle’s to be.” (p215) ALP = infinite. Past, present and future.
“Tell me of John or Shaun? Who were Shem and Shaun the living sons or daughters of?... Telmetale of stem or stone.” (p216) Shaun = stone; Shem = stem.
BOOK II - Woohoo!
“Holy Genesius” (p219) - Genesis (again!)
Humpty Dumpty is back! “humpteen dumpteen revivals. Before all the King’s Hoarsers with all the Queen’s Mum” (p219)
So we have a play, an interesting insight into the Earwicker family, given that the characters all seem to be them: Glugg (played by Seumas - alternative spelling of Shemus, for which Shem is short); Izod (Izzy?); Chuff (played by Sean - alternative spelling of Shaun); Ann (Anna (LP)) and; Hump (Humphrey? Humpty? “egg everlasting” (p220)).
In the description of Izod we have mention of “her grateful sister reflection in a mirror” (p220) which reminds me of earlier thoughts I’ve had regarding the brothers...
Glugg (Shem) seems to have drawn the short straw in the character department again, described as “bold bad bleak boy of storybooks” (p219) and “divorced into disgrace court” (p220).
Chuff (Shaun) in addition to being the "fine frank fairhaired fellow of the fairytales" “wrestles for tophole with the bold bad bleak boy Glugg” (both p220).
This provides a deeper look at the differences and competitiveness between the twin brothers. And maybe a clearer look at the character of Shaun, about whom I so far know very little. The fact that 'Shem' is described as "bleak" and 'Shaun' described as "fairhaired" adds to the previous imagery of light vs shadow in relation to the brothers.
But despite their warring they are still cared for and washed (more water metaphors) “soaped, Sponged and scrubbed again” (p220) (“again” again!) by mother Ann.
So the family is now being communicated through a theatrical medium? What is the significance of this? In addition to maybe giving us a more objective insight into the family dynamic, perhaps it is a comment on the performance / unreality of life. A bit like the “roll away the reel word” quote from earlier on in Book I. This chapter brings to mind the principles of Brechtian theatre, where drama as very much a performance and makes no pretence to represent reality. (Think: the complete opposite of Stanislavski!) Sign-posts are brought onto the stage to signify a prop or a character; characters directly address the audience etc. It is very much the concept of: ‘This is a play!’ With this in mind, I am wondering if we are seeing a 'representation' of the family, rather than the truth of the family itself.
Or perhaps - through the play - we are looking at projections of the self or an artist’s impression of the self, rather than the true self?
Interesting that Hump (HCE?) is described as “the cause of all our grievances”. (p220)
Time and its eternal nature is a significant concept here, too:
“Time: the present.
With futurist one-horse balletbattle pictures and Pageant of Past History...” (p221)
This is also not the first time that ballet and battle have been placed together, almost belittling the contrast between them and focusing on how they could complement each other.
“Say it with missiles then and thus arabesque the page.” (p115)
“Thugogmagog” (p222) - Gog and Magog appear in Genesis. The Gogmagogs are also a famous set of hills in my hometown of Cambridge, England! :)
Kevin, your linguistic interpretations both amaze and delight.
Jenna wrote: "Kevin, your linguistic interpretations both amaze and delight."Thanks! It's the only way i know how to approach a text like this, really. I'm from Singapore, and here we speak a kind of creoloid language that combines the lexicons and grammatical structures of English, Mandarin Chinese, Malay, and other Chinese languages. As an undergraduate i used to spend hours teasing apart meanings and structures and etymologies, like solving a puzzle. Just to give an example, we have a word "gostan", which basically means "to reverse" (a vehicle or, more infrequently, a decision), and which research (done by others) reveals to have derived from "go astern", quite neatly reflecting our history as an important British seaport back in the colonial era. So being able to examine a word or phrase and recognise hidden patterns or resemblances across languages is really all in a day's work for me i guess.
Back to Finnegans Wake...
This chapter is confusing me a bit. I'm not really getting it. Started out as a play, but now i'm not sure what it is. Did spot a few interesting things:
Pg 230:
"homety dometry" - Humpty dumpty again.
"coume il fou" - "Comme il faut". French. "As it should be".
"Parisise" - "Paradise" + "Paris"?
"tosend years" - "Tusen". Swedish. "Thousand".
"Mondamoiseau" - "Mademoiselle" + "Monde" ("world") + "oiseau" ("bird")
"Was liffe worth leaving? Nej!" - "Was life worth living?" I seem to remember having read "liffe" more than a few times before in the book, but i have no idea what it refers to. "Nej" (pronounced "neigh") is Swedish for "no". Like "nay" in English, really.
Pg 231:
"...feastking of shellies by googling Lovvery" - Did Joyce predict the search engine?
"zawhen intwo" - "sawn in two?"
"Johua Croesus" - "Jesus Christ"?
"Jove Chronides" - "Jesus Christ" again? Also, "Jove" = Jupitar.
"for, forforget, forforgetting" - This is just funny.
Pg 232:
"moiety lowd" - "mighty loud"
"Satanly, lade" - "Certainly, lad"
Pg 233:
"For a haunting way will go" - There's an old song, "A'hunting we will go" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-Huntin...
"rex of regums" - rex regum = king of kings. Nerdy aside: This is precisely the kind of thing i would see in my work IRL, actually. Lexicon from one language (in this case Latin) combined with the morphosyntactic structure of another (here, English). In Mandarin Chinese we might say "我吃了", meaning "I have eaten". "我" is "I", "吃" is "eat", and "了" is a particle indicating that the action that is described has been completed, this in lieu of tense, which Mandarin does not have. In Singapore we might say more colloquially "I eat already", and this is a direct mapping of English words onto Mandarin structure. "Eat" is awkwardly uninflected because of the lack of inflection in Mandarin verbs, while "already" functions as the equivalent of "了". Fascinating! Absolutely fascinating! And there's a mini-lesson in contact linguistics for you.
"joaneofergs" - Joan or Arc?
"skarp snakk" - To me this rings distinctly of Scandinavian, and "engelsk" ("English" in Swedish) just a few words down supports this hunch. No idea what it might be, though. There is a suburb of Stockholm called Skarpnäck, but i doubt it's that.
"tsukisaki" - Sukiyaki. Yum.
Pg 234:
"Sin Showpanza" - Sancho Panza! So the "ruful continence" i spotted on page 198 really might be a reference to Don Quixote!
Days 45 & 46“If he’s at anywhere she’s therefor to join him. If it’s to no-where she’s going to too.” (p226) - This sentence relates to space (“at”, “anywhere”, “no-where”) and time (First sentence: present; second sentence: future).
Eve (p226) - Adam and Eve = first man and woman / every man and woman? Timeless description of man and woman?
“Mammy was, Mimmy is, Minuscoline’s to be.” (p226) Similar to the “Anna was, Livia is, Plurabelle’s to be.” (p215), but this time I get a sense or evolution in addition to the time angle of past / present / future. Mammy evolves to Mimmy, which evolves to Minuscoline. - Minuscule? ie getting smaller?
“Lord Chuffy’s sky sheraph” (p226) - another likening to AIRBORNE angel / seraph in relation to Shaun, contrasting with Shem’s FALLEN angel imagery?
The sequence of letters in the last paragraph of page 226 spells “RAYNBOW” - rainbow?
“haricot bag” (p227) - bean bag?
More nursery rhymes - Little Bo Peep on page 227
“McAdoo about nothing” (p227) - Much Ado about Nothing (Shakespeare comedy)
“a great big oh” (p229) - “oh” = “O” = loop / eternal cycle
“Was liffe worth leaving?” (p230) - contrast with ‘life worth living’
“posted ere penned.” (p232) - INTERESTING! This relates to Shaun the Post and Shem the Penman, but effectively says ‘posted before being written’. To me it raises the question of linearity of time.
Favourite line: “malady of milady made melodi of malodi” (p229) - love the play on ‘my lady’, ‘malady’, ‘melody’, and ‘mal’ combing form.
Rider wrote: "Does anybody have a read on "he was in his bardic memory low" (172)?"I’ve been thinking about this a lot as I was also struck by this line.
Shem’s Bardic poetry is a projection of his ‘self’, his identity, capturing or embodying him in the now, the future and past (ie memory)?
His memories have been corrupted by the “lowness” of his art?
He is as “low” in his own mind as he appears to be in others’?
The authorial voice is projecting their own view of Shem (ie “low”) onto Shem himself as justification for the abrasive description?
I'll admit, five pages a day is harder to keep up with than I'd anticipated. I believe I'm a day behind at this point (on 130 as of tonight, but need to stop for the evening--will try to get fully caught up tomorrow!)So many things I've noticed too late to add much to the conversation--rivers! Narcissus references!
Just a few notes from the last half dozen or so pages:
p. 225:
The dialogue portion in the middle of this page... brimstone, hellfire, and ... what is Van Diemen's (demon's) coral pearl?
p. 226:
The list of flowers. I haven't looked up meanings or cross-referenced these yet, but this (especially the rue) takes me to Ophelia's suicide scene in Hamlet. Also, these may all have medicinal properties? Mostly, I'm curious what their traditional meanings are.
Raynbow seems intentionally rainbow-y, Jenna, because on page 227 we get the list of girls' names (line 14, and hey, there's rue again), and if you just take the first letter of each name, it spells WOBNIAR, which is "rainbow" backwards...seems too coincidental to be a coincidence, although I don't know what it means.
p. 228
Some soundalikes caught my attention here. "petriote's absolution" (patriot's absolution) and "Gelchasser no more! Mischnary for the minestary to all the sems of Aram" (Girl chaser no more! Missionary for the ministry to all the sons of Adam?)
Then, on p. 229, we get a mention of Scilla and Charibdis ("Skilly and Carubdish") and Castor and Pollux ("Caxton and Pollock")--twins, anyone? Where have we seen this theme before?
Finally, on p. 230, is "Bill C. Babby" Beelzebub?
Demons and figures from Greek mythology and occasional reminders of the strange play-within-a-book structure of this chapter. Also, lots of playing with "Plurabella" it seems.
I'm also stuck spinning on the sentence in your last post, Jenna. This is probably a gross oversimplification, but I wonder if it's ultimately saying he's a poor storyteller. The traditional role of a bard is to tell stories and entertain a bit, yes? But I associate them with an oral storytelling tradition rather than a written one, so a bard with a poor (low?) memory would be a pretty crummy bard... This sentence/phrase is followed in the text by a description of...well, at least a poor conversationalist, if not a poor storyteller.
Of course, this all hinges on my understanding of bards, which could be completely inaccurate. In which case, I'm back to square one!
Ten pages for me tomorrow, and then I'll be on track with the rest of you, I think (yes, Jenna, I skipped counting for the two blank pages as well).
Also, Kevin, I really enjoy reading your deconstructions/reconstructions/analyses of some of the linguistic components here. Often enlightening!
Enjoying everyone's posts (which I'm reading, even when I'm quiet).
I might be a bit slow here, but i'm beginning to get the sense that we're reading about Finn/HCE here, at least partly. Humpty Dumpty has been referenced a few times (pg. 291, 230), and now on pg 240 we read about somebody "laid in his grave", who then "rises, shivering". Okay, so this somebody is Glugg, who is Shem, but Shem is apparently a "chip of old Flinn the Flinter"; a chip off the old block, i.e. like his father. I'm also quite sure i encountered some stuff that brought to mind rising from the dead earlier in the chapter, although i can't seem to find any of it now.Other stuff i noticed (I've decided i'm going to be the semi-official "picker a-parter" of this thread):
Pg 240:
The three sentences beginning with "Nu mere for ever siden..." and ending "sengaggeng" have Scandinavian-sounding words mingled all throughout them.
"Nu mere" - No more
"Siden" - "sedan" is Swedish for "since" or "afterwards".
"stolen" - "the chair"
"tumstull" - "domstol" is Swedish for a court of law. "Dom" is judgement (think about how in English we can say "he was doomed to suffer all his life"), and "stol" is, again, "chair".
"dags" - day
"sengaggeng" - sounds like synagogue, but i'm convinced there's something Scandinavian in there. Not Swedish, or i would recognise it. Maybe Danish or Norwegian?
------
"proforhim penance" - Proffer him penance.
"Good savours queen" - God save our queen? God Save the Queen?
'Teufleuf" - Tough love?
Pg 241:
"not wert one bronze" - "wert" is "worth in German. Pretty transparent, but thought it worth mentioning.
"femtyfem" - 55 in Swedish.
"her uyes as his auroholes" - "her eyes as his ears". "Ear" in French: "oreille"
"Wikingson, furframed Noordwogen's kampften" - "Viking's son"? "Norwegian's captain"?
"lochkneeghed" - lock-kneed. From "rhomatism" (rheumatism)?
"bedaweens" - bedouins"
"Just a Fication of Villumses" - Justification of.... something.
Pg 242:
"howthold" - "household" + "Howth", as in, Howth Castle?
"senest mangy years" - "senast" is Swedish for "last", "latest".
"ecrazyaztecs" - "ecclesiastics"
"crime ministers" - "prime ministers"
"glycorawman" - greco-roman
"femorniser" - womaniser. Another reason i think Finn and/or HCE is involved in this.
"Psing a psalm of psexpeans, apocryphul of rhyme" - Sing a song of sixpence, a pocket full of rye; four-and-twenty blackbirds baked in a pie, etc.
"swop her eckot hjem for Howarden's Castle, Englandwales" - HCE. But also, "hem" is Swedish for "home", and would be pronounced "hjem", or "hyem". So she, whoever she is, is swopping her ____ home for Howarden's Castle, which may be Howth Castle, or Hawarden Castle in Wales (i had to google that), or, of course, both.
Pg 243:
"elskerelks" - lovers? A bit of a stretch. "älskare" in Swedish.
"yahrds of annams" - "Jahr" and "annus" are "year" in German and Latin respectively.
"Hwemwednoget" - "Vem vet något", "who knows something" in Swedish. It's gotten to a point now that in Finnegans Wake i read every "w" as a "v", just because so many things pop out that way.
"piabellars" - Plurabella
"feme sole" - "femme seule". A lone woman.
"her zoravarn lhorde and givnergenral" - Her sovereign lord and governor-general.
"Winden wanden wild like wenchen wenden wanton" - Nothing. Just liked the alliteration. Somehow sounds nicer with all the "w"s pronounced as "v"s too.
"Ostmanns" - East man. Man from the east.
"Moslemans" - Muslims.
"the papal legate from the Vatucum, Monsaigneur Rabbinsohn Crucis" - "the papal legate from the Vatican, Monseigneur Robinson Crusoe", but also, "Rabbi".
Pg 244:
"syngagyng a sangasongue" - "Synagogue" again, but this time, there's definitely a Scandinavian word in there: "syng", which means "sing" in Danish. So "sing a song a sang a song"? Dunno.
"Alvemarea" - Ave Maria.
"tommelise" - Thumbelina in the original Danish.
"Laohun" - I'm tempted to read this as "老虎" (lao hu, "tiger"), and "sheutseuyes" as "狮子" (shi zi, "lion"), even though the latter especially is a real stretch, just because "Panther" appears two lines down, as well as "loevdom". "Løve" is Danish for "lion". Not to mention "Elenfant" and "Eliphas", "elephant"
It only just occurred to me what a wonderful coincidence it is that, picking up Finnegans Wake for the first time, i should happen to be familiar with Swedish. A language that, after all, isn't exactly the sort foreign language enthusiasts tend to gravitate towards, like French or Spanish or German. Makes me wish i knew a bit of Gaelic. I imagine there must be a ton of clever references i'm completely missing out on.
I keep falling behind and having to catch up, so I haven't been able to give the book as much thought as I like. However, on page 232 a few days ago I noticed the sentence, "The smartest vessel you could find would elazilee him in her knee as her lucky for the Rio Grande." As most of you probably know Rio Grande is Spanish for large river and is a name for a river that is in the south western United States. This river also runs through my hometown. I couldn't help liking that a little bit of geography I've seen, in real life, shows up in the text, even if I have no clue what that sentence is saying.
I'm with you on the falling behind, Jennifer. I've just caught up today after an embarrassingly drawn-out chase after page numbers that kept feeling farther and farther away.And Kevin, it's funny you mention the happy coincidence of coming to this book knowing Swedish--I've had the same thought about coming to FW after a childhood in Catholic school...might be the best use of those years I've found so far!
Book! So many references, a couple of which are pretty persistent, but let's start plucking chronologically (not in book time, but in how-I-read-the-pages time).
Jumping back just a bit because I don't think anyone's mentioned this one. On p. 232, "Now a run for his money! Now a dash to her dot! Old cocker, young crowy, sifadda, sosson." The rhythm of this got me stuck on "Twas the Night Before Christmas," and it's a close enough match that I'm fairly certain it's intended. Another small thing about it, which I'm not as sure is intentional...this is shortly after the "posted ere penned" line, and the "dash to her dot" seems connected to jots and tittles, markers of the written English language. I might be looking too deep for writing/writer references, but tossing it out there anyway.
P. 235: "prostitating"--prostituting + prostrating?
P. 237: The paragraph that begins at line 11 seems to be about St. Stanislaus ("Stainusless"), which could be referring to a couple different Catholic saints, but I'm guessing, due to the rape references later in the paragraph and next several pages, that it's the Stanislaus who was killed by a Polish king after telling that king he shouldn't be letting property overseers take soldiers' estates and wives while the soldiers were off fighting wars (paraphrased from Wikipedia, which I know isn't the most reliable source, but it turns out it's hard to find objective information on saints in 90 seconds or less)
Also on p. 237, we get what is at least our 2nd Loki reference in recent pages (God of Mischief, I think...Norse? Doesn't sound Greek or Roman, but I could definitely be wrong about this) and an Abel tucked in at line 34, but I don't see a matching Cain nearby.
Later on p. 237 we get our first Philomel reference (The Rape of Philomel...Greek myth? I know it's referenced rather heartbreakingly in Eliot's "The Wasteland" but am not familiar enough with the original story outside of the general outline--raped by Tereus, he cuts out her tongue so she can't tell, and then she...becomes a nightingale?)
p. 238, "Bohnaparts"--Bonaparte? Napoleon again...
Also, lines 27-28 reference twins, but--and this is something I've noticed in a couple places previously in this chapter, and that has come up in posts here from a previous chapter--one is distinctly female, or playing a female role.
p. 239: "Behose our handmades for the lured!" Behold our handmaids for the Lord? This sounds sarcastic to me, as we're in the middle of several pages that seem centered around unsavory treatment of women.
"romance catholeens"--Roman Catholics
"belchybubhub," "hellabelow," "lucisphere"--Beelzebub? Hullabaloo? Lucifer? Alternatively, Lucifer's sphere (aka Hell)?
Synagogues and Finn and HCE references, oh my!
Skipping to p. 245:
"Brights will be brights" = boys will be boys?
Also, "Yul remembers Mei" is probably making layers of reference I'm not getting, but the surface made me smile.
"Marely quean of Scuts" = Mary, Queen of Scots
Is "Chavvyout Chacer" (line 35) possibly Geoffrey Chaucer? He appears right before another Kierkegaard mention, so it seems likely to be a name (these seem to come in batches, don't they?), but it's also a bit of a stretch
p. 246:
another castle, which I can't help but read as Howth or HCE
"Gadolmagtog" -- Gog and Magog?
"Ready. Like a Finn at a fair."--no clue what this means, but I like the simplicity of the image
"Icy-la-Belle"-- ici la belle? the beautiful here? Am I misunderstanding this? (well, either way I don't understand it, but my French is pretty rusty...maybe the better question is, am I mistranslating this?)
"Yem or Yan"--Shem or Shaun, Yin or Yang?
p. 248:
Philomel again, and "theerose" (Tereus?)
p. 249:
"old Sem, pat as ah be seated"--Shem?
p. 250:
is "prunktqueen" a reference back to the Prankquean?
As always, I'm just picking bits out without being able to place them into any kind of clear or consistent context. I can see that there is a rape, or multiple rapes happening here, possibly between the twins or being perpetrated by the twins (or both), and there is a lot of referencing of saints and elements of Catholicism (more notes I didn't add above, because enough is enough at some point: another Lord's Prayer bit, an Ave Maria, and a bit that seems to be playing on the phrase "bear false witness"), but that's the limit of how I'm understanding the plot/action of these pages. Anyone else having better luck or another take?
Okay, that's enough from my spinning little brain tonight. Cheers!
Days 47, 48, 49 & 50Been in headless chicken mode this week so will just pick out a few lines that caught my attention and will hold back my usual waffle.
“Lonedom’s breach lay foulend up” and “ring gayed rund rorosily” (p239) - both corruptions of nursery rhymes: London Bridge is Falling Down and Ring a Ring of Rosies, known in other countries as Ring Around the Rosy.
“For poor Glugger was dazed and late in his crave, ay he, laid in his grave.” (p240) - Shem?
“Psing a psalm of psexpeans, apocryphul of rhyme.” - Sing a Song of Sixpence. Psalms / sex / non-canonised scripture. Perhaps a challenge on the hypocrisy and unnatural expectations of religion / Christianity?
“Ark!? Noh?!” (p244) - Noah’s Ark?
Interesting number sequence on the bottom of page 248. And the word “cipher”.
I’m interested in the passage about “fairness” on page 249. Does anyone have a take on it?
“There lies her word, you reder.” - A direct address to the readers of the book? or the readers of the play?
“All point in the shem direction as if to shun.” (p249) - A clear instruction to respond badly to Shem - possibly an admission that manipulative language / narrative has been used to influence our response to Shem’s character?
“Yet’s the time for being now, now, now.” (p250) - A rare time of feeling ‘in the moment’.
[[EDIT - Odd, considering that this chapter is presented as a 'play', rather than reality.]]
“Headmaster Adam became Eva Harte’s toucher.” (p251) - A reference to Adam and Eve in the uncomfortable context of non-consensual sex.
“I is a femaline person. O, of provocative gender. U unisingular case.” (p251) This feels significant, although I’m not sure what is being said. Some sort of metaphor of language and gender? I get the feeling that there is a criticism of femininity somewhere in here. An accusation of selfishness? sexual provocation?
“The thing is he must be put strait on the spot, no mere waterstichystuff in a selfmade world that you can’t believe a word he’s written in, not for pie, but one’s only owned by natural rejection. Charley, you’re my darwing.” (p252)
This seems to be a challenge between the claims of creationism and evolutionism. “Natural rejection” instead of “natural selection” interests me, too, as it calls question to the benefits of evolution. Survival of the fittest, maybe, but where there is someone fit who survives, there is someone unfit who doesn’t. I’m also drawn to the “you can’t believe a word he’s written in” clause. What word is he written in? The Bible? Finnegans Wake? Or a wider concept whereby the boundaries between character / deity / concept and author / writing / book become blurred until they are one and the same? The character is the writing and the writing is the character. OK. Just read those last two sentences back to myself. I sound like a lunatic! But that’s what reading this book is doing to my head - my trust in certain laws, like basic rules of literature, is broken. Right now, anything goes. And I still don’t really know what is happening!
Favourite line: “For all these have been thisworlders, time liquescing into state, pitiless age grows angelhood.” (p251) - Somehow this sentence encapsulates the feeling of Finnegans Wake for me.
Day 51“Four Massores, Mattatias, Marusias, Lucanias, Jokinias...” (p256) - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
“And shall not Babel be with Lebab? And he war.” (p258) - “Lebab” is “Babel” in reverse. War with self? War with a distortion of self?
“... that thy children may read in the book of the opening of the mind to light and err not in the darkness which is the afterthought.....” (p258)
A few things interest me about this line.
First: “the book of the opening of the mind to light” - could this be the book of Genesis? The opening? Let there be light etc?
Second: “opening of the mind” - I think Finnegans Wake is sort of about this. ie getting people to open their minds and see past the obvious. The moment a person achieves this, they start the path of a new way of thinking... a genesis of the self as it were. It’s the same with cycles - a cycle will continue until a new energy disrupts it, triggering a new genesis and a new cycle.
Third: “darkness... [as] an afterthought” - Light can be corrupted. Even the devil was once an angel.
Page 260.... A new chapter; a new format.
I’ve not read enough to be certain yet, but I am conscious of the fact that in addition to the main body of text, there are three views being expressed in notes and footnotes. Each has a different voice and a different angle:
-Footnotes - emotional / formatted / reference to the female / child-bearing: “girlic”, “nine months”, “Mater Mary”, “Dripping nipples”, “Milk”. - Izzy?
-Notes in the left margin - masculine / poetic / aggressive / crude / poorly punctuated: “Dont retch meat fat sat lard sinks down (and out). - Shem?
Notes in the right margin - intelligent / critical / existential: “SIC.” (Perhaps directed at the objective use of “whom” instead of the subjective “who”?); “IMAGINABLE ITINERARY THROUGH THE PARTICULAR UNIVERSAL.” - Shaun?
Not really sure yet. It's just a thought.... I suppose we’ll have to wait until tomorrow and subsequent days within this chapter to find out.
I'm going to be busy the next week or so (i have two 500-page books to read by this Thursday, on top of my usual work =S), and may not be able to write very much, but i really wanted to at least mention the apparently apocalyptic ending to chapter 2.1, which i read yesterday.Beginning at,
Upploud!
The play thou shouwburgst, Game, here endeth. The curtain drops by deep request.
The play that started at the beginning of the chapter ends here. But it's not the only thing that ends, because...
Gonn the gawds, Gunnar's gustspells. When the h, who the hu... Sealand snorres. Rendningrocks roguesreckning reigns. Gwds with gurs are gttrdmmrng. Hlls vlls. The timid hearts of the words all exeomnosunt...
It's the end of an age as well. The end of the gods. Gone the gods! No idea who or what Gunnar is. "Sealand snorres": Snorri Sturluson is the Icelandic historian/poet who gave us, amongst other things, the Prose Edda, which, together with the Poetic Edda, tells us about Ragnarøk, the Fate of the Gods. Rendningrocks roguesreckning reigns. Ragnarøk is also called Götterdämmerung, Twilight of the Gods, in Wagner's Ring Cycle. Gwds with gurs are gttrdmmrng.
Then we have mention of fear, of Azrael, archangel of death, of war, and then this, which sounds a lot like the apocalypse in a more Christian tradition, with god speaking through thunder at the unhappy inhabitants of earth, who then cry out for mercy:
For the Clearer of the Air from on high has spoken in tumbuldum tambaldam to his tembledim tombaldoom worrild and, moguphonoised by that phonemanon, the unhappitents of the earth have terrerumbled from fimament unto fundament and from tweedledeedumms down to twiddledeedees.
Loud, hear us!
Loud, graciously hear us!
Ragnarøk is followed by renewal, by the rising of a new world, a very Christian idea which led some scholars to believe Christian ideas might have mingled with pagan ones at some point, mirrored (maybe?) quite interesting here by how we began with Ragnarøk, and ended with a more Christian picture of the apocalypse. Or have we ended? I spent a while looking for salvation in the text, as it were, and didn't really find it. Maybe that's what happens in the next chapter. Maybe the whole book is renewal after renewal.
I don't know if we're all on the same page now. Today, 21 Sept i started on page 260 and ended on 264. Jenna you seem to be a page ahead of me. Or maybe i'm a page behind you.I tried looking in the first five pages of chapter 2.2 for evidence of a new world rising out of the ashes of Ragnarøk. Didn't really find any, except maybe on page 262, "Gnosis of precreate determination. Agnosis of postcreate determinism", and on page 263, "in a more and more almightily expanding universe under one, there is rhymeless reason to believe, original sun." where "expanding universe" could be the big bang, and "original sun" could be original sin.
On the other hand, these pages are just littered with HCE.
Pg. 260
enthewsyass cucking a hoyden
Pg. 262
Easy, calm your haste
(ALP: Approach to lead our passage)
Hoo cavedin earthwight
Pg. 263
erst crafty hakemouth
Hispano-Cathayun Euxine
Castilian-Emeratic-Hebridian
Espanol-Cymric-Helleniky
emerald canticle of Hermes
Haud certo ergo
Pg. 264
Honour commercio's energy
everybody and ech with pal
Habourer-cum-Enheritance
Even Canaan and the Hateful
Since i'm going to be busy this week i've been debating whether to put off reading for now and try to catch up next week, or to simply read a bit more quickly, and risk missing some of the more subtler points. Eventually decided on the latter, because if i try to catch up next week i'm probably going to be reading quickly anyway.Everything i'm talking about here i'm getting from pages 265 to 274, which i read this morning.
Not sure what's going on, but i suspect we're reading a "panoptical purview of political progress and the future presentation of the past" (pg. 272). This would follow nicely from what i imagined was a description of the [re]creation of the world in the first five pages of the chapter. Also, there are plenty of references in these 10 pages to world leaders and wars (e.g. Stalin on pg 272, Hannibal on 274, "Atac first" on 270, "naval actiums" on 272).
From 268 to 271 we get a whole lot of grammar references, which i will list in order without going into much detail:
"third person"
"mascarine, phelinine or nuder" - masculine, feminine and neuter are grammatical genders in German.
"moods"
"prosodes" - prosody
"dative with his oblative" - dative and ablative case. Former can be found in English, but not the latter.
"imperative" - mood. e.g. Stop eating!
"reflexive" - the m' in je m'appelle
"sintalks" - syntax. structure of the clause
"subjunctions" - could the the subjunctive, or conjunctions
"pruriel" - plural
"aorist" - a kind of tense
"plaudered perfect" - pluperfect
"accusative" - case. Found in English, and most European languages.
"And egg she active or spoon she passive" - Active and passive voices
"fine clauses" - highest constituent in sentence structure below sentences themselves.
"particple of a present" - present participle
"split in the infinitive" - something that bothers the grammar police a lot but that linguists don't see reason to mind.
Other things:
pg 265:
"skole igen" - School again. Swedish.
"niedelig" - "niedlich" Pretty. German.
"brandnewburgher" - Brandenburger
pg 266:
"I believe in Dublin and the Sultan of Turkey" (in the footnotes) - Could this be the opening line of the Apostles' Creed? "I believe in God the Father Almighty..."
pg 267:
"kongen" - "the king". Danish, but all Scandinavian languages have this word, just spell it differently.
"syung" - "sjung". Swedish for "sing".
"Yggely ogs Weib" - "Ygg" is another name for Odin, the worldfather. "og" is "and" in Norwegian. "Odin and his wife". (Extra info: Hence also Yggdrasil, the world tree, or the world ash. Odin the worldfather is not to be confused with Odin the valfather. "Val" is fallen. "Valhalla" is the hall of the fallen, where Odin resides. "Valkyries" are choosers of the fallen. They decide which warriors die in battle and which live. Odin's wife is Frigg, and Frigg is where we get "Friday". Friday is Frigg's day, just like Thursday is Thor's day, Wednesday is Odin's day ["Wodan" is another name for Odin. In Swedish they say "Onsdag"]. Tuesday is Tyrs' day. Monday is the day of the Moon.)
pg 269:
"Jeg suis, vos wore a gentleman, thou arr, I am a queen" - "jag" and "je" are "I" in Swedish and French respectively. "Vos" is the 2nd person plural in Latin, compare "vous" in French. "Thou arr" is clearly "thou art". "I am, you are a gentleman, you are, I am queen."
pg 273:
"Fas est dass and foe err you" - "Was ist das?" German, "what is this?" and "Hvor er du?" Danish, "Where are you?"
Kevin wrote: "I don't know if we're all on the same page now. Today, 21 Sept i started on page 260 and ended on 264. Jenna you seem to be a page ahead of me. Or maybe i'm a page behind you."D'oh! Not again.....
I am perplexed by this chapter. I have NO idea what is happening. Would anyone who is using a companion to FW recommend or not recommend using a text aid? Are they helpful? Do they offer interpretation? Do they explain the polyglotism and literary / mythological references?
One bit has struck me though and reinforces the notion that I will need to read this book again.
Page 272:
“Please stop if you’re a B.C. minding missy, please do. But should you prefer A.D. stepplease.”
Two things:
1. This is very similar to the Matt / Jute section from the long gone days of Chapter 1.
“(Stoop) if you are abcminded.” (p18)
Could this possibly be marking some progression? Whereas page 18 seemed to be instructing the reader to stop reading if they had only the mind to accept the logical, literal and standard, page 272 issues the same warning, but adds an option for those who are willing to step along a different path - where A needn’t be followed by B and C, but could lead straight to D.
Also... Matt and Jute.... were they Shaun and Shem under different names?
2. The musical notes on the left hand side of page 272 are: BCAD, mirroring the letters highlighted in the passage. This encourages us to take a different view and see apparent letters in a different way - musical notes and beyond.
The comments in the right hand margin note:
“PANOPTICAL PURVIEW OF POLITICAL PROGRESS AND THE FUTURE PRESENTATION OF THE PAST.”
Could this be possibly championing the benefits of viewing things from a different angle, thus enabling a wider scope of progress?
Also.... “future present... past” .... Nuff said.
Jenna wrote: "D'oh! Not again....."This is how i ended up where i am. Previously, i would start each day on either a page ending with 3, or one ending with 8. Problem is, between 1.8 and 2.1, there were two blank pages. When i started on page 213, rather than ending on 217, which would have been blank, i ended on page 219. So beginning chapter 2.1, i've been starting each day on either a page ending with 0 or one ending in 5.
I'm starting today on oage 275, which, according to my logic, should be the "right page". But being on the "right page" doesn't mean anything if everybody else is on a different one. Where is everybody else starting? We could try syncing up again. Shouldn't be too hard. We could always decide arbitrarily to start each day on a particular page.
Some quick notes.Pg 276:
When i spotted the Apostle's Creed on 266, it was a wild guess, but i might have been right. Or it might have been an incredible coincidence.
"fadervor" - Danish. Pater noster. If you follow the footnotes, it mentions "my apholster's creedle". The Apostles' Creed.
"Fanagan's weak" - Finnegans Wake
Pg 277:
"fewnraly" - funeral
"Boblesse gobleege" - noblesse oblige
Pg 279:
In the footnotes,
"verbe de vie" - French, "word of life"
"take seidens" - German, "take sides"
"old nourse Asa" - "old nurse Asa" + "Old Norse Æsir". The Æsir form the bulk of the Norse pantheon, and include all the ones that have been mentioned in FW so far: Odin (under various names), his wife Frigg, his somesay son Thor, and Loki. And speaking of Thor,
"bolt the thor" - "bolt the door" + "bold [of?] Thor". Thor is, of course, the god of thunder.
Kevin wrote: "Where is everybody else starting? We could try syncing up again. Shouldn't be too hard. We could always decide arbitrarily to start each day on a particular page. "I really like the idea of syncing up. I've been perpetual behind the last week. I think only by a day, but I'm not sure.
How about this? Assuming nobody reading FW, or at least nobody active in this thread, is behind me, only ahead of me, why don't we just start from 285 on Wednesday. Not because i'm correct, but because then anybody who is "ahead" would simply have to read less, rather than I and anybody with or behind me having to read more.Edit: Or, Jennifer, if you're more than a few pages behind, how many pages exactly? I think for the sake of fruitful discussion i wouldn't mind skipping a day or two. Especially since you're one of the few people active here anyway. We should just try not to make it a habit, lest this project end up taking very much longer than it should.
Kevin wrote: "How about this? Assuming nobody reading FW, or at least nobody active in this thread, is behind me, only ahead of me, why don't we just start from 285 on Wednesday. Not because i'm correct, but bec..."I'm all for us all aligning, but I'm now in a muddle. I've finished Tuesday on p279, expecting to start Wednesday (25th) on p280. Have I accidentally missed a day?
Jenna, you and I are on the same page.
I haven't done today's reading yet, but I should be starting tomorrow, Wednesday, on 280 as well.
I am also expecting to start Wednesday on page 280, but I will have a good chunk of reading time today so have no problem reading another five to be on the same page as everyone else once we sync.
Oops! Maybe I'm the one who miscalculated. 280 on Wednesday then?
Day 56 - page 280! :)On page 284 there are further references to the infinity / double 0 sign:
In addition to the actual ∞ symbol:
"zeroic couplet", "noughty times ∞", "cooeficient" [coefficient with "oo" sequence], "oxygon" [=Oxygen = 0₂ = 00]
Infinite loops / cycles etc etc.
I notice that there are a lot of numerical sequences , particularly on pages 283 and 284. As I'm sure I have thoroughly demonstrated on this board, I am not a mathematical mind. Does anyone with a better grasp on maths have any observations about any of these? The best I can come up with is the footnotes on page 283 mentions 12, 28 and 40 in a row. 12+28=40 But then it says "alleven add the hundred" and I become lost again, not least of all over whether "alleven" should be read as "all even" or "eleven"......
Day 57Just a few notes tonight - from a chapter that I am largely not following.
“The hoisted in red and the lowered in black” (p286). “Lowered in black” struck me as Shem, due to the use of the word “low” and the imagery of darkness. I was interested though in “hoisted in red”. I loved the idea that Shem (the author of the notes on the left hand side?) might perceive Shaun as having been “hoisted” to his higher position, ie assisted with effort.
Who are Dolph and Kev? The footnotes on page 286 seem to suggest these are “singlebarrelled names for doubleparalleled twixty twins”. Shaun and Shem? If so, I love love LOVE the concept of them being “double paralleled”. Double paralleled with each other, but also the other roles they apparently play within FW. Also... I wish I’d had a better concept of the interchangeable character names when I started reading FW. I wonder how much key character information I’ve missed because I was too caught up in the traditional ideas about characters in literature.
“...O and for a second O...” (p287) - double O / ∞ / infinity / endless cycles and endless loops (again)
“I cain, but are you able?” (p287) - Cain and Abel (again)
Reference to “ophis” on page 289. Ophis is the Greek for snake. It is also referenced in Corinthians as being the name of the snake that tempted Eve with the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden.
Happy next five pages, all.
Jenna :)
Kevin wrote: "The play that started at the beginning of the chapter ends here. But it's not the only thing that ends, because...It's the end of an age as well."
Day 58
Two things.....
1. Faust - likened to ‘first’.
“First mull a mugfull” (p286), “take your mut for a first beginning” (p287), “how faust of all” (p289), “a foist edition” (p291), “the whole faustian fustian” (p292).
I’m not sure what the connection is (if indeed there is one) but it seemed to jump out at me. A quiet, non-psychotic voice whispers in my mind that I may have read an observation about Faust on this forum board before, but I can't remember the context or who raised it.
2. Now... please can we talk about the thing that has been fascinating me since Professor Seidel’s interview on Literary Disco?... The Vesica Piscis!
On page 293 we have a diagram - two overlapping circles. There is a huge amount to be said about this diagram and its function in Sacred Geometry.
As it appears in FW, it is on its side. It is used (as far as I can tell) in relation to ALP and the depiction of a) female genitalia b) the shape of a woman’s uterus. However, Joyce has also included Greek lettering, which includes the pi symbol. Yes, this is the Greek letter equivalent to P (a la ALP), but it is also the mathematical symbol of the constant within a circle, specifically the circle’s circumference to its diameter. As such, it plays a key mathematical function in the geometry of the diagram itself. I do not believe that Joyce would include the Greek lettering equivalent to ALP were he not drawing attention to the geometric significance of this symbol.
This symbol is named the Vesica Piscis. It means the Vessel of the Fish or Bladder of the Fish. If you turn it upright so that one circle is on top of the other, the overlapping circles create the image of a fish (like the Jesus Fish used as a symbol for Christianity).
It is used both ways in Christian symbolism, with Jesus frequently depicted in the centre.
It also frequently represents the joining of two in order to create (eg, two circles join and create a new symbol in the overlapping section; man and woman joins and create a child etc etc).
Page 293 refers to “the balance of his minds” and I am interested in the idea that the two circles might have relevance to the two minds / characters of the “doubleparalleled twixty twins”.
The rhombus is also depicted within the overlapping space. Also, geometrically significant.
Also, of course, circles are already key within FW, as part of the loops and cycles mentioned previously on the board.
There is SO MUCH that can be said about this symbol - it plays a central role in the novel I am currently writing, which is partially why I was so excited to see it in FW.
The reason I have highlighted Kevin’s comment about the end of an age, is that the Vesica symbol is also associated with star constellations and the transition from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius. Therefore, I have no doubt that Kevin is spot on in his analysis.
I suppose that my point is this: there are plenty of ways that Joyce could have depicted female reproductive organs, if that was his sole intention. The Vesica Piscis is too significant a symbol and too multilayered to be used without further / deeper meaning.
Any thoughts?
That's really cool! This makes me really glad we're doing this together here. If there's any book that needs to be read as a group it's this one. We bring together all these different perspectives. Also, i think need to go back to that episode of Literary Disco and listen to it again.
So, it's my turn to play catch-up today. Read 20 pages in one sitting this afternoon. Came down with a fever on Wednesday and really couldn't concentrate on anything.I garner from Jenna's analysis and from the numerous mathematical references in the past 10 pages or so that there's some mathematical mysticism going on. Isaac Newton is referred to on page 293 ("Sare Isaac"), lending further credence to this, if any is necessary. Newton is oft thought of as the first physicist, but would be more accurately described as the last alchemist. He saw all sorts of crazy things in numbers and patterns that today would be associated with crackpots and lunatics beyond the far fringes of academic science.
What is going on with the characters here? The brothers (the twins?) seem to be having some kind of discussion about ALP and about each other. Are the characters related to each other in some mystical way? Do they form some kind of mystical trinity? What about HCE? I haven't noticed him anywhere recently, after that first bit of the chapter when he seemed to be everywhere.
Kevin wrote: "What about HCE? I haven't noticed him anywhere recently, after that first bit of the chapter when he seemed to be everywhere...."There's an interesting direct reference to HCE in the footnotes on page 291.
"O hce! O hce!"
I think there is quite a lot to make of that. As well as being an open reference to HCE and including the "O" symbol, it also has the ring of sexual ecstasy to it.
So far I've had the sense that the footnotes belong to Izzy. I don't know. If they do, though, this adds to the already complicated relationship HCE and Izzy seem to share.
Does anyone have a sense of the age of the Earwicker children?
I don't know why but I've been thinking of them as proper children. There's somebody very pre-adolescent about the way the boys go at each other.
Day 59 (with some overlap from Day 58)Got a bit excitable yesterday over the Vesica Piscis, so missed a few circle / loop / cycle references that I should have highlighted from page 294.
“Hoop! As round as the calf of an egg! O, dear me! O, dear me now!” (p295) - “hoop”, “round” and “O”. Also, “O” is repeated, again giving us the OO symbol and the principle of repetition in cycles.
“Rest in peace! But to return.” (p295) - reincarnation, repetition of life, repetition of cycle.
“Gyre O, gyre O, gyrotundo! Hop lala!” (p295) - “Gyre” = spiralling vortex / circular motion; “O” = loop; repetition of the phrase gives the sense of recurrence / loop; “Hop lala” = hoopla? ie hoop / the shape of a circle.
“... comes to nullum in the endeth” (p298) - “Nullum” = nothing = 0 = circle. This reminds me of similar thematic imagery in Shakespeare’s King Lear: “Nothing will come from nothing”; “the wheel is come full circle” etc.
More Genesis references:
“Hoddum and Heave” (p296) - Adam and Eve?
The children give further consideration to ALP’s sexual organs on page 297, starting with “lift by her seam hem” (ie lifting her skirt).
Viewing their mother’s body seems like a slightly threatening idea:
“fearfully... nether nadir”.
The language that follows is direct or reminiscent of female genital organs: “sixuous parts”,;“fluteous”; “triagonal” and “threeingles” [both triangle - see also the Vesica Piscis symbol on page 293]; “appia lippia pluvaville” [ALP / labia lip?]; “vulve” etc etc
A few other thoughts:
“apexojesus” (p296) - symbology of Jesus and geometric shapes? (see Vesica Piscis)
“Hurdlebury Fenn” (p297) - Huckleberry Finn?
“So post that to your pape and smarket. And you can haul up that languil pennant, mate.” (p298) - Put that in your pipe and smoke it - Shaun the Postman & Shem the Penman?
“Ecclasiastical and Celestial Hierarchies. The Ascending. The descending.” (p298 - left hand notes) - pointing out that this is HCE in reverse?
Also, does anyone else think that the voice of the left-hand columnist has changed? The notes seem more akin to those that were previously on the right-hand side. Or am I imaging this?
“Ollover Krumwall” (p299) - Oliver Cromwell.
Hope everyone is still enjoying the reading! Happy next-five.
Jenna
Jenna wrote: Also, does anyone else think that the voice of the left-hand columnist has changed? The notes seem more akin to those that were previously on the right-hand side. Or am I imaging this?"Yes, the voices of Shem and Shaun switch in the side notes of this chapter. You are not imagining it :). I think this goes back to what you wrote earlier about the twins being "double paralleled".
Had a bit of catching up to do today. Read 300-309.Observations:
Pg 301:
"es war itwas" - "es war etwas". German. "It was something".
"My animal his sorrafool! And trieste, ah trieste ate I my liver" - A lot going on here:
-- "Sorrafool" = "sorrowful".
-- "trieste" is probably "triste" in French, which also means "sad" or "sorrowful".
--"ah trieste ate i my liver" could be "à Trieste ate i my liver", "in Trieste i ate my liver". Joyce spent some time in Trieste, didn't he?
"All moanday, tearsday, wailsday, thumpsday, frightday, shatterday till the fear of the Law." - Monday to Saturday. Aside from being a fun sentence to read, also ties nicely into the whole sorrow thing.
Pg 302:
"joyclid" - "Joyce" + "Euclid"?
"And i Romain, hup u bn gd grl. Unds alws my thts." - Sounds an awful lot like how someone might sign off a letter. "And i remain, ...", "And always my thoughts...", "p.s. Hope you've been a good girl..."???
Pg 403:
"Slutningsbane" - Danish. "End of the runway/path/line/track". This word "slut" makes for a lot of wonderfully dirty puns. Basically it means "stop" or "end". A "slutstation" is the final stop on a train line. A "slutspurt" is the final push, say, at the end of a race, or the end of an electoral campaign.
"Honours to you and may you be commended for our exhibitiveness!" - HCE?
Pg 305:
"And if you're not your bloater's kipper" - "Your brother's keeper". Another Cain and Abel reference.
Pp 306-308
In the left column of these three pages there are lists of historical and biblical names. Are these meant to correspond to some of the sentences in the text?
"Your Favourite Hero or Heroine" on page 306 could be Adam and Eve.
"the Strangest Dream that was ever Halfdreamt" on page 307 might be Joseph, who received many a prophecy from god via dreams.
Also, "Hengler's Circus Entertainment": HCE.
On page 308 we have a list of numbers from 1 to 10:
Aun - One
Do - Two (compare deux in French)
Tri - Three (compare tre in Swedish)
Car - Four (compare quatre in French)
Cush - Five (I assume)
Shay - Six (I assume)
Shockt - Seven (compare sept in French)
Ockt - Eight (compare octo in Latin, åtta in Swedish, acht in German, etc.)
Ni - Nine (compare nio in Swedish)
Geg - Ten (I assume)
Given that earlier in the chapter we have seen a lot of mathematical mysticism, it can't be a coincidence that the chapter ends with a list of numbers. Do the words themselves have some kind of significance? The first word, "aun", could be the sacred syllable Aum in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. There's also a mythical Swedish king named Aun who was buried in a place called Gamla Uppsala, which i happened to have visited back in 2011. Nice personal connection.
Does anybody have any idea what those drawings are at the bottom of page 308?
Days 60 & 61 Fighting brothers....
The past two days have got me thinking about the name ‘Jacob’. I remember it being used specifically in Shem’s chapter, and now it is back, on page 300 and again - perhaps more notably - on page 303:
“that Jacoby feeling again for forebitten fruit and, my Gorgeous Kevvy too...”
“Jacoby feeling” - fighting twins? (In Genesis, Jacob fought with his twin brother from their time in the womb and all through life...)
“forebitten fruit” = forbidden fruit / already bitten / previously tasted
I’m not sure of any biblical stories involving Jacob and what might be considered ‘forbidden fruit’, other than the fact that he had two wives, who were sisters (and his cousins). Not sure that was considered forbidden though in the early days of Genesis, where everyone was related to everyone else! Does anyone with a better knowledge of the Bible have any thoughts? Or is there another literary ‘Jacob’ that this might relate to?
Either way, I would like to know who the narrator of this sentiment is.
Interesting that one of the brothers has signed the nightletter “jake”.
But who is “jack”? (the other name on the letter). Is the similarity between Jack and Jake relevant? And “little sousoucie”. The daughter, right? Is there some linguistic / literary importance to the name “sousoucie”?
I was also wondering about the “greater than or less than” reference on page 298 (Day 59’s reading) and the way the size of the font is graduated. Could this be a visual representation of the competitiveness / battle for dominance between the twins.
There are a lot of “pen” v “post” lines today:
“I plant my penstock in your postern, chinarpot.” (p305)
“...Advantages of the Penny Post...” (p307)
Interestingly, the above is immediately followed by the line: “When is a Pun not a Pun?” Are we perhaps being warned against reading too much into some of these words, or reminded that by enabling ourselves to grow comfortable with the text of FW, the object of such language is defeated?
I’m certain that Kev and Dolph / jake and jack are the twins, Shaun and Shem (or at least representations of them), but I don’t know which one is supposed to be which. At first I thought that Kev was Shaun, but page 303 links him with writing (and poppadoms???) so now I’m thinking that it could be Shem; or am I reading this wrong?
Does anyone have any thoughts on the narrator of the main body of text in this chapter? At first I thought it was one of the children (Izzy, mostly), but now I am leaning towards the fact that it might be all three of them, sharing the narration. It seems to fluctuate between first person and third person, with the object changing.
Ruthiella - Thank you! That’s so interesting.
Kevin, you asked about the pictures. In truth, I’m not sure. However, I am struck by the footnote 1, which accompanies the first drawing:
“Kish is for anticheirst, and the free of my hand to him!”
This gives us the image of a hand, with the thumb touching the point of a V or an incomplete triangle. Triangles have multiple meanings within this chapter and I suppose we need to consider the meaning from a sexual angle. However, the mention of the antichrist might indicate some sort of unholy trinity (contrast with the “apexojesus” reference on page 296)?
There is something quite provocative in the words of the footnote. It makes me think about the impact of staunch catholicism on pubescent teenagers and the sense that feelings which are biologically natural are cast in the shadow of sin / in need of punishment. Perhaps this line indicates the feeling of sexual maturity being akin to wedding one’s self with the antichrist (give one’s hand in marriage etc).
On the other hand, there has been a lot of suggestion that HCE committed a sin that is of a sexual nature. I’m still not sure that the actual sin was but I get the impression that it involved the daughter. Perhaps these are the words of someone who has love for someone she perceives to be the antichrist.
Also, if you think about what the coming of the antichrist represents in scripture, I’m no expert, but I understand it’s the end of the world and the dawning of the new world (or is that too simplistic?). Perhaps there is something there about the transition from one age to another, or the transition from childhood (this chapter is very much a child’s chapter, with its 'Lessons before bedtime' feel) into womanhood (as perhaps represented by the hand making contact with the triangle). This feels quite pertinent given that a key element to the chapter is the children learning to understand sexuality in relation to their mother for the first time.
AND... that’s just made me think! “Night letter”. Why “night”? Why not just letter? Maybe the coming of night means something similar. ie the letter marks the transition of the children from the ‘daylight’ of childhood, into the murkier, shadowy world of adulthood.
As for the age of the children, Kevin, I know what you mean about the youngness of the twins’ fights. I have imagined them as older, like young adults. I don’t know if Shaun is a postman by trade, or by association of having been tasked with delivering ALP’s letter, but I presumed him to be of working age. (Umm.... incidentally, did we ever find out what happened to that letter? Who was it delivered to?)
Regarding the pictures, from a completely different angle from that above: I did a quick Google search and someone has pointed out that the shape in the negative space of the hand is a V and the cross below it is X, roman numerals 5 and 10. Whilst this may be relevant seeing as it is the ‘5’ and the ’10’ which are footnoted in the list above, I am a little sceptical of this as the hand / triangle image is more complex than I would expect if the intention was solely to represent a V shape. I consider this one of the layers of meaning in an image which, like the text, is multi-layered.
Today’s point of befuddlement: what do the names of the philosophers, roman emperors, biblical figures etc listed in the left hand margins of pages 306 and 307 have in common - either with each other or the points in the main body of text to which they relate? Kevin, you raise a good point re Joseph. Are there others where parallels can be drawn?
Congratulations everyone! We just hit the halfway mark! Another 314 pages to go!!Read pages 310 to 314 today. I get the sense a story is being told with both Scandinavian and maritime themes.
Pg 310
"harmonic condenser enginium" - HCE
"Thorspetersen and Synds, Jomsborg, Selverbergen" - "Thorspetersen" sounds like a person's name in Scandinavian. Note the "Thor" that begins it. And "petersen" is essentially "Peter's son". "Synd" is Swedish for "sin". "Jomsborg" is apparently a semi-legendery Viking stronghold, according to Wikipedia. I don't know what "Selverbergen" means, but "bergen" on its own means "mountains" in Swedish.
"as if their livving deepunded on it" - "as if their living depended on it"
"Naul and Santry" - "All and sundry"?
"Brythyc Symmonds" - British something? The Ys here make it look slightly Celtic or Scandinavian.
"Olegsonder" - "Alexander", made to look vaguely Scandinavian/Germanic.
"o.s.v." - Mentioned before. Basically "etc." in Scandinavian.
"oustman" - "Ostman", or eastern man. This is what the Icelanders or Faroese would have called the men coming out of Denmark and Norway.
"skand" = Scand(inavia)
Pg 311
"Norweeger's capstan" - "Norwegian captain". A Norwegian captain was mentioned before. From page 241, "Wikingson, furframed Noordwogen's kampften", which i highlighted on 17 Sept.
"sagd" - "sagt". German for "said".
"norjankeltian" - Not sure what this is, but the "nor" in front of it is suspicious.
"Alloy for allay and this toolth for that soolth" - An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
Pg 312
"All lykkehud" - Not sure what this means. But "lykkehud" looks so Scandinavian.
"Norgean" - "Norge" is "Norway". So "Norgean" is "Norwegian" (except "Norwegian" is properly "norsk")
"evenstarde and risingsoon" - Evening star and rising sun.
"maremen" - Seamen?
"earpicker" - "earwicker"?
"godthaab... Cape of Good Howthe" - Cape of Good Hope.
"sputsbargain" - Spitsbergen is the largest and only permanently inhabited island of the Svalbard archipelago, located in the high Arctic, and belonging to Norway.
Pg 313
"sagasfide" - "satisfied" + "sagas"?
"Recknar Jarl" - "Ragnarøk" + "Jarl". A Jarl is a Scandinavian Earl.
"sottovoxed" - sotto voce
"pengapung" - "pengar", Swedish for "money". This as the narrator talks about "the costs of liquid courage, a bullyon gauger".
Pg 314
"finicking" - Finnegan
"noirse-made-earsy" - "Norse made easy"?
I've not been doing as well lately, sometimes kind of slogging through, although sometimes still seeing some "light". I'm looking forward to getting back to an 'easier' section. Happily, found a diversion with this:p296, But, yaghags hogwarts and arrahquinonthiance,
p300, No Sturm. No Drang.
Found the names of two of the magic schools from Harry Potter in close proximity in FW. Not necessarily where JKR got them, but interesting to see them there. I had to research. Thanks to the creator of this site for the following info: http://www.theninemuses.net/hp/d.html
Hogwarts: "Hogwart" is a type of lily. It's also "warthogs" switched around.
Durmstrang: Probably a spoonerism of "sturm und drang", which in German means "storm and stress". Sturm und Drang was a German literary movement in 1765-85 that arose in reaction to traditional authority and the prevailing formality of literary style.
Further research:
Hogwort lily = croton capitatus. I planned to see if arrahquinonthiance is related to plants. Yaghags appears to be Scandinavian but I couldn't get a translation.
There's a nice article on the "Sturm und Drang" literary movement in Wikipedia.
The Scandinavian/maritime-themed story-telling continues.Pg 314
"A butcheler artsed out of Cullege Trainity" - A Bachelor of Arts out of Trinity College.
"Burniface" - Boniface. French name.
"Howe cools Eavybrolly!" - HCE
oerasound - Øresund / Öresund / Oeresund. Body of water dividing Denmark from Scania in Southern Sweden.
Pg 316
"Pukkelsen" - Scandavian-sounding name, although not a name that anybody has. "Pukkel" apparently refers to a hump or a humpback.
"ulstravoliance led them infroraids" - ultraviolet + infrared.
"thane and tysk and hanry" - Tom, Dick and Harry. But also, a thane is someone who holds land on behalf of a political or military ruler. "Tysk" is Scandinavian for "German". Don't know what a "hanry" is.
"Kinkincaraborg" - A borg is a castle or a stronghold in Scandinavian languages. Today you can still see it in the names of Scandinavian cities, such as Göteborg (Gothenburg), Sweden's second city.
"iceslant" - Iceland
"he sagd, til Dennis" - Yesterday i interpreted "sagd" as being a play on "sagt" in German. Today i figured out that it could also be a play on "sagde" in Danish, meaning the same thing. This would be more consistent with all the Scandinavian words littered throughout the text here, as well as with "til" in this particular sentence, which is Danish for "to". Thus, "he said to Dennis".
Pg 317
"on svo fro" - "s.v.o.", as i mentioned before, is the Scandinavian equivalent to "etc.". Additionally, the whole phrase "on svo fro" might also be read as "and so forth", which is exactly what o.s.v. and etc. mean.
"Shackleton" - Ernest Shackleton. Led three British expeditions to Antarctica.
"Opvarts" - Very Scandinavian-sounding word. Can't find a meaning.
"Osler" - Oslo? Capital of Norway. Incidentally, Oslo used to be known as Kristiania. The name-changed happened only a few years before Finnegans Wake was published.
"Humpsea dumpsea" - Humpty Dumpty + Sea (fits with the nautical theme)
"A ninth for a ninth" - An eye for an eye. At leas the second time this phrase has appeared in this chapter.
"mistaenk" - "mistake". But also, "mistänka" is Swedish for "to suspect".
Pg 318
"Annexandreian" - Alexandrian.
"han in hende" - "Hand in hand". But also, "han" is "he" in Danish, while "hende" is "her" in the same language.
"backonham" - "Bacon and ham". But also, sounds like the name of a Scandinavian city or town. Compare Köpenhamn (Swedish for "Copenhagen") and Mariehamn (Swedish-speaking territory under Finnish sovereignty).
Pg 319
"Eh, chrystal holder?" - ECH
"Ampsterdampster" - Amsterdam
"netherlumbs" - Netherlands
It's me again! And again the Scandinavian/nautical themed storytelling continues. Pg 320
"eeriesk" - "Irish". Compare Danish "Irsk".
"fisk" - Fish. Scand.
"Brighten-pon-the-Baltic" - Baltic sea. Separates Sweden from Finland.
"nowraging scamptail" - Norwegian captain again. Incidentally, is he HCE?
"ire wackering" - earwicker.
Pg 321
"astraylians" - Australians.
"Wazwollenzee Haven" - Was wollen sie/Sie haben? German. What do they/you want?
"elegant central highway" - ECH
"Hircups Emptybolly" - HCE
"Copeman helpen" - Copenhagen
"Saying whiches" - sandwiches?
"nankeen" - The Chinese city Nanking, a.k.a. Nanjing? Seems like it. Given what's on the next page.
Pg 322
"lao yiu shao", "hwen ching hwan chang", "hou he pouly hung hoang tseu" - Chinese-sounding stuff. Gibberish, as far as i can tell. Or not. It's hard to read without tones, and this style of romanisation is unfamiliar to me.
"Kongbullies" - "king bullies" + "King Billy"
"Ovlergroamlius" - Oliver Cromwell, naturally.
Pg 323
"bugganeering" - Buccaneering (+ "buggering"? Because i'm sure it gets lonely on the high seas)
"coarsehair" - corsair
"Iseland" - Iceland
"Skunkunabory" - Scandinavia. Incidentally, last time i noted that "borg" can often be found in the names of Scandinavian cities, like Göteborg (Gothenburg). "Borg" is pronounced "bory". So very nicely done working it in here.
"Drumadunderry" - Derry/Londonderry?
Pg 324
"hailed him cheeringly, their encient" - HCE
"Hoved politymester. Clontarf, one love, one fear. Ellers..." - HCE. Also, "eller" is "or" in Swedish. Also again, "hoved" means something like "head" or "chief" in Danish. For example "hovedstad" is "capital city". So a "hoved politymester" might be a prime minister? Or something like that. A chief policy master.
"Finucane-Lee" - Finnagen.
From about the bottom third of page 324 things seem to shift. We're no longer hearing a story but a weather forecast ("Welter focussed.")
"Schiumdinebbia" - Scandinavia
"kokkenhovens" - Copenhagen
"middelhav" - "Mediterranean". Danish.
4th October. Pages 325 to 329 today...Pg 325
After the weather forecast something happens that resembles some kind of religious ceremony, wherein some people make an oath of some kind to each other. The words wedding and baptism both show up, the latter on page 326.
"Lifetenant-Groevener" - Lt. Governor.
"Anna Lynchya Pourable" - Anna Livia Plurabelle
"(Kiskiviikko, Kalastus. Torstaj, tanssia. Perjantaj, peleja. Lavantaj ja Sunnuntaj, christianismus kirjallisuus, kirjallisuus christianismus.)" - This bit is mostly Finnish, with some minor mispellings, and possibly a word of Portuguese? "Wednesday, fishing. Thorsday, dance. Friday, fighting (Portuguese?). Saturday and Sunday, Christian(?) literature.)"
"Whilesd this pellover his finnisch" - Finnish.
"tsay-fong tsei-foun a laun" - More Chinese-sounding gibberish(?). If this is Chinese-inspired, then it probably isn't Mandarin Chinese, but Cantonese, which i happen to understand a bit of. Mandarin doesn't have vowels like "ay" and "ei", whilst Cantonese does.
"Aestmand Addmundson" - Very Scandinavian-sounding name. Don't know who it refers to. Second part of the name is probably Edmundson.
"nowedding captain" - Norwegian captain.
"wutan" - Wotan. Odin.
"kowtoros" - kowtow?
Pg 326
"comeundermends" - commandments?
"I popetithes thee" - pope + tithes + baptise
"Erievikkingr" - Sounds like a Scandinavian name. In particular, something Old Norse, or Icelandic. Eiríkur (Eric) + Viking?
"hellsinky" - Helsinki. Capital of Finland.
Here the ceremony, whatever it is, is briefly interrupted by somebody who is "agenst all religions", considering them to be hocus pocus ("thorrkurs pokkers"). He uses several words that sound Scandinavian, though i can't find reliable translations for some of them: "snorsted", "haltid", "hworefore" (wherefore), "storstore" (stor: large, grand, great), "Domnkirk" (Cathedral church).
"lief eurekason and his undishcovery of americle" - Leif Erikson, Norse explorer, was the first European to land in North America, nearly 500 years before Columbus did.
Pg 327
"Fynlogue" - Finnegan?
"anny livving plusquebelle" - Anna Livia Plurabelle.
"flyend of a touchman" - Flying Dutchman.
Pg 328
"Coxenhagen" - Copenhagen, obviously.
"Heri the Concorant Erho" - HCE
"Thingavalley" - Þingvellir. The Þing (literally "thing") was an old Norse Parliament. Parliaments and councils in Scandinavia are often still called Things. "Vellir" is "valley". Þingvellir is where the world's first parliament met in Iceland. Beautiful place. Visited it myself back in 2011. You guys ought to go if you can.
"Horuse to crihumph over his enemy" - HCE
Pg 329
"suomease pair" - Siamese twins? Or Finnish twins ("Suomi" is Finnish for "Finland")?
"Ould Fathach" - The Elder Futhark is the runic alphabet used by Germanic peoples in the 2nd to 8th centuries. Later became the Younger Futhark, used by Scandinavians, and the Anglo-Saxon futhorc, used by the Germanic settlers of the British Isles.
Literary Disco
Books mentioned in this topic
A Clockwork Orange (other topics)The Sound and the Fury (other topics)
A Clockwork Orange (other topics)
A Clockwork Orange (other topics)
Annotations to Finnegans Wake (other topics)
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I love the bit (from yesterday's reading) about the self-aggrandizing -- the "inartistic portraits of himself" -- that he writes: "cutting a great dash in a brandnew two guinea dress suit...anna lovely long pair of inky Italian moostarshes glistening with boric vaseline and frangipani," (182).
There's the recurring trope of Shem writing up his whole world, "writing the mystery of himsel in furniture" that keeps confusing the tools of his writing, what he's writing about, his physical environment...
Until he uses his own body (185) -- covering "every square inch" in some kind of "gallic acid on iron ore" tattoo? Am I reading that correctly? Great way to represent the way an author exploits/uses his environment, friends, family until finally he's left with only himself to exploit.
A clear reference to Molly Bloom's soliloquy from Ulysses on top of 184 -- "sos yeses and yeses and yeses." Obviously, Joyce is drawing parallels between Shem the writer and himself.
I'm with you Jenna, on not knowing what to make of this caustic perspective. I like your twin theory.
But even if this is Shaun, are we supposed to agree that Shem is really this awful? Or are we supposed to judge this judgement?
I'm hoping we find out soon.
-Rider
PS: Kevin, do you know Latin? (I'm sure you've mentioned which languages you know but I'm too lazy to scroll back). I only did a year in high school and 99% of that's gone, but I'm assuming the extended passage on 185 is actual Latin. Although, knowing Joyce it might be some faux Latin or combo of languages.