Finnegan's Wake-Up

[Juliette]

WTF? I am reading this for the sheer pleasure of the weirdness. Reminds me of dropping acid. But those days are gone. Mblajaka-Dom

[Kevin]

Day 4 for me. Slept terribly last night. Mind not quite working, so it was a struggle getting through today's 5 pages. But here's what i got.

Seems to be something going on involving early man:

"meandertale" on page 18
"meanderthalltale" on page 19
"cromagnom" on page 20.

At the same time, whatever was going on with the Scandinavians is apparently still happening:

"ragnar rocks" on page 19.

Amused to find "wordpress" on page 20. Wonder if this might be where the Wordpress people got the name for their CMS.

HCE makes at least one appearance that i managed to catch:

"homerigh, castle and earthenhouse" on page 21

Favourite sentence:

"In the ignorance that implies impression that knits knowledge that finds the nameform that whets the wits that convey contacts that sweeten sensation that drives desire that adheres to attachment that dogs death that bitches birth that entails the ensuance of existentiality."

Although i also like,

"like a rudd yellan gruebleen orangeman in his violet indigonation"

[Tyson]

Day 4 Complete!

I find myself getting more confused every time that I begin reading in this book. However, I am not really frustrated by this. I am a word and language geek so even though I am not understanding the narrative (if there is one) I enjoy every page I read.

I do find myself searching for a narrative though. I think Joyce absolutely knew that the difficulty of the language and prose would distract from the narrative so I really don't think the narrative is all the important, at least not this early.

There are so many words, phrases, and sentences I like. Here are a few:

"Right rank ragnar rocks and with these rox orangotangos rangled rough and rightgorong."(19)

"Damadam to infinities!" (19)

"Cry not yet! There's a many a smile to Nondum, with sytty maids per man, sir, and the park's so dark by kindlelight." (20)

We also have another like 50-60 letter word on page 23.

I have noticed that the Biblical References have faded away in the last few pages.

Joyce is also using the most alliteration I have ever seen in one book.

Again, I'm not sure what I am reading, and like somebody above me said as soon as I think I am starting to figure out a little bit of what's going on I am thrown for a loop. This is definitely the hardest book I have ever read, but I am not giving up on this. I love a challenging read and will see this through until the end.

-Tyson

[Jenna]

I absolutely agree with Kevin regarding the favourite sentence of Day 4. (p18):

"In the ignorance that implies impression that knits knowledge that finds the name form that whets the wits that convey contacts that sweet sensation that drives desire that adheres to attachment that dogs death that bitches birth that entails the ensuance of existentiality."

What a line! A blend of alliteration, life cycle and polarities all in one sentence. (Plus more, I'm sure.) It's stuff like this that is making the read worth it.

Page 18 and 19 feel like a game of alliteration and once again I find myself worrying that I am missing something- like the punchline...

A line that really got me was (p19-20):

"But the world, mind, is, was and will be writing its own wrunes for ever, man, on all matters that fall under the ban of our infrarational sense fore the last milch-camel, the heartvein throbbing between his eyebrowns, has still to moor before the tomb of his cousin charmian where his date is tethered by the palm that's hers."

It's so easy to lose track of the text that it's possible to forget Joyce's mastery. Sections like this serve as a good reminder.

I've also been thinking about that ridiculously long word on p1:

"The fall (bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!) of a once straight oldparr is retaled early in bed and later on life...."

If it is right that Finnegan (?) has died as a result of a fall, I'm wondering if that nonsensical sequence of lettering is actually the sound of the fall itself. It has a sort of bumpy (bababada), plummeting (toohoohoo), slamming (thurnuk!) feel to it. Just a thought.

Intentionally, I haven't read any "Guides to..." type books, nor have I read the foreword in my copy, but someone above mentioned it might be a dream. It certainly has that feel to it - the splintering of narrative, the lack of a clear identity, the strange blend of convention and absurdity. I still find the pace quite feverish. If not a dream, it does seem dream-like.

Favourite word on Day 4: "meanderthalltale" (p19)

Thanks for the incentive do this, guys. This is fun. :)

Jenna

[Jennifer]

In the last two days of reading, I seem to keep finding references to Irish and European history. My knowledge of history is spotty at best, so I’m not quite sure.

There was one moment of clarity: when Joyce references St. Patrick driving the snakes out of Ireland: "Sss! See the snake wurrums everyside! Our durblbin is sworming with in sneaks." (Of course it can be read as both Dublin is swarming with snakes and Dublin is swarming with sneaks.) Latter in the same paragraph, Joyce mentions "Paddy Whippingham". I suspect that Whippingham is a pun alluding to the fact that St. Patrick was brought as a slave to Ireland, and it’s probably alluding to something I missed entirely. In fact between these parts, I really didn't understand the rest of the paragraph.

I've loves the "ragnor rocks" reference too.

My favorite word was "postproneauntissquattor".

Also, I loved "(Perkodhuskurunbarggruauyagokgorlayorgromgremmitghundhurthrumathunaradididillifaitillibumukkunukuunun!) And they all drank free!" After a word like that, they all better get to drink for free.

[Nicole]

A few general notes this morning:

1. Jenna, I'm not reading any guides, either--I feel like they'll change my expectations (of both the book and my own reading of it), and I'm just enjoying this for what it is, honestly.

2. Have any of you ever been the only sober person at a party? Not some middle school wine-cooler party, but something on the verge of getting really out of control, with people in a wide range of mental states trying to explain their realities to you? Reading this book makes me feel like that person.

3. Disinterested Cat ate part of the FW's cover yesterday. It's still not clear whether her goal was to destroy the instrument of her torment or understand it better through ingestion.

[Donna]

Once when I was a kid, I was playing around on my mom's exercise bike in the basement, (it was the 80s) and I had the tension turned up really high so it was hard to pedal, because I wanted to see what it was like to ride a bike up a mountain, even though I walked my own bike up every hill on the way home from school. (Kids are dumb.) I'd been doing this for awhile and eventually put the tension back to normal. However, I naturally forgot I'd done this two minutes later, and started pedalling with such gusto that I immediately flew forward and smacked my face on the handlebars, getting a bloody lip.

This is how I feel when I read my "regular" books after my daily trek through Finnegan. Face-planting into recognisable words and sentence structure.

[Jennifer]

Donna wrote: "Once when I was a kid, I was playing around on my mom's exercise bike in the basement, (it was the 80s) and I had the tension turned up really high so it was hard to pedal, because I wanted to see ..."

Great analogy.

[Jennifer]

Am I going mad or did today's pages somewhat cohere? After the phrase "let your ghost have no grievance," I kept thinking that someone was reassuring Finnegan's spirit that he is being remembered, along mythical lines,and catching him up on the local gossip, so that he could move on. The lines "Repose you now! Finn no more!" on page 28 certainly reaffirmed my sense of this reading.

Did anyone else have a similar interpretation?

[Stephanie "Jedigal"]

I've decided already that:
1) When finished I'm not going to give this book a * rating. I don't feel I'm qualified, as I am not going to spend the amount of time necessary to understand.
2) I personally don't think that this is a joke perpetrated by Joyce. Full of jokes, but itself not a joke. It sounds like he worked far far too hard on this to not be taking it seriously.
3) I have never imagined such dense layers of reference. Reference to language/speech/mannerisms of multiple people's but especially the Irish, reference to current local history and wider swaths of world history, reference to mythology and religion and culture. What Joyce has done here, to me, makes Tolkien's work seem like child's play. And that's saying something.
4) I agree with other posters who've said that this could reasonably be studied at a slow pace (a page or two a week would make sense) but I don't have the time, patience or inclination to delve that deeply. I'm going to continue as I have, going along, and enjoying the wordplay, musicality, and humor that I do catch, and appreciating any glimpses into a deeper meaning that I happen to pick up.

Weirdly enough, on pages 30 and 31, I think I'm understanding one short scene of - possibly - plot. But maybe not.

So far, I really find this experience reminiscent of reading ee cummings poetry - except - I can usually understand the ee cummings.

I understand why some would think this is crazy, and why some would drop out. I would never do on my own. I am so grateful that there are lots in the group who are also just taking it as it comes, and not taking it like a college class. If I had to write a paper on this afterwards, I'd just drop the class now.

Thanks to my sis for cleverly reeling me into this project...

[Jenna]

Day 5:

Ireland is popping out everywhere - it's a stronger character than any other so far. And with Catholicism being so deeply embedded within Irish identity, the references add to the Irish feeling. The sound of words, the pictures being painted are all so distinctly Irish.

Favourite phrases:

“rudd yellan gruebleen or angerman in his violet indigonation” (p23)

“And would again could whispering grassies wake him and may again when the fiery bird disembers.” (p24) (Winter?)

“turning out tables by mudapplication” (p26)

Day 6:

Today’s five pages seemed riddled with HCEs!

Humme the Cheaper Esc; humile, commune and ensectuous; hubbub caused in Edenborough (p29); enos chalked halltraps (in reverse); Hag Chivychas Eve (p30); the sigla H.C.E.; Here Comes Everybody (p32); Habituels conspicuously emergent; H. C. Earwicker (p33) and probably more....

Favourite lines:

“She was flirtsome then and she’s fluttersome yet.” (p28)

“... yet a worthy of the naym, came at this timecoloured place where we live in our paroqial fermament one tide on another....” (p29)

Few comments:

Nicole: I thought the same thing regarding support reading, but I am close to caving as I am not following the plot. If I am still baffled tomorrow, I might have a sneaky peak at the Wiki page Rider posted on p2 of this discussion thread.

Donna: You are so right!

Jennifer: Yes, I underlined that same passage with similar thoughts, although I was hooked more by the line: “You’re better off, sir, where you are...” The message I took from that passage was that death is considered a better place to be than the life of events listed in the paragraph.

Stephanie: I’m not sure if your point 2 was in response to something I said (as I did mention a joke), but either way I feel I should clarify. When I said that 'the language is like a joke I don’t get', I didn’t mean that the book is in some way farcical. I was likening reading the book to that feeling you get when a joke is told and you know it must make sense on some level, but you’ve missed or not understood the punchline. In short: there is meaning in the language, but I’m not able to see it.

Happy reading of the next five pages, all! :)

[Aimee]

After a rather disturbing dream last night (don't ask), I found Rider on Twitter, jumped to Literary Disco, read the first 10 pages of Finnegans Wake, joined this group, and now my brain is leaking out of my ears.

All I gotta say is...wtf, JJ? I have no idea what's going on but my three year old thinks it's hilarious.

[Nicole]

I agree that there are many jokes (linguistic, historical, situational, and probably local/inside as well) in this text, but the text itself I don't think is intended to be a joke. It's far too much effort and far too layered to be just some ridiculously elaborate punchline.

Seriously with the H.C.E. references! Now I'm wondering if the previous ones were a bit of foreshadowing in advance of us meeting this Harold/Humphrey/Haromphrey Chimpden (of the pre-surname something or other, but you can bet if he had a surname it would start with the letter "E")/ Here Comes Everybody character. The nickname makes me wonder if he represents some larger group, but I have no real sense for this at this point in the reading. Regardless, it is interesting to me that so much attention is being given to discussing possible things these initials/characters might stand for. He's teasing us a bit with this, I think.

Someone already mentioned this gem from p. 28, and it's technically yesterday's bit, but it really struck me so I'm mentioning it here: "Repose you now! Finn no more!" This sent me right back to our introduction to Finnegan (Finnagain/Finn no more...nice bookends) and also spun me off into Catholicism again--isn't there some line of absolution at the end of a confession that ends with something like "Go forth and sin no more"? Finn no more/sin no more. This might only be real inside my head.

Still loving the words: lustsleuth (33), nominigentilisation (31), andrewpaulmurphyc (31)...I'm particularly intrigued by this last one--who (if anyone) was Andrew Paul Murphy, and why fiddle his name into something that sounds so much like "anthropomorphic"? I'm loving stumbling across these cross-breed words, although I certainly don't understand all of them!

[Donna]

I always enjoy your comments, Nicole! They totally help me go like, "Ohhhhh! See, THAT makes sense." So... thanks. ;)

[Stephanie "Jedigal"]

Jenna wrote: "Stephanie: I’m not sure if your point 2 was in response to something I said (as I did mention a joke)..."

Ummm, wasn't singling anyone out, actually I think there have been multiple comments from even before Aug 1 on whether this whole book is a joke Joyce was perpetrating. And even if not a joke itself, I can imagine the author imagining readers struggling and enjoying the mental picture, even if the work itself was not a joke to JJ. That gives me a smile to think what JJ would think of all of this now. I hope he wouldn't be horrified.

[Trina]

I felt the same way about the long word after the fall - it reminded me of someone hitting rungs of a ladder on the way down.

Jenna wrote: "I absolutely agree with Kevin regarding the favourite sentence of Day 4. (p18):

"In the ignorance that implies impression that knits knowledge that finds the name form that whets the wits that co..."

[Trina]

Yes! I got the feeling that he was being caught up on the local gossip before going on his way.

Jennifer wrote: "Am I going mad or did today's pages somewhat cohere? After the phrase "let your ghost have no grievance," I kept thinking that someone was reassuring Finnegan's spirit that he is being remembered, ..."

[Rider]

7 days down.

So, we should all be at the bottom of page 38, right?

I am really, really glad we're doing it this way. Not to sound like a cheerleader or anything but, you guys are incredible. I mean, I've never felt this lost reading before, and yet coming on here, I'm amazed at your comments and the things you're picking up on that I'm completely missing.

So I definitely still have no solid grasp of what's going on, but I can now recognize all the distinct "movements." The shifts in language are sharp and noticeable. Waterloo. Mutt-Jute dialogue. Prankquean. The most lucid section in that first chapter is definitely the "mourner talking to Finnegan" one that you pointed out, Jennifer.

Since this first chapter is supposed to be re-read (the last sentence of the book carries back over to the first) I can't help but keep looking for some kind of "key." Anytime I find a reference to the book we're reading itself (or at least one I think as such), it brings me comfort. Because right now, unsure of the "plot," I'm also unsure of its value.

In my mind, writers create specific narratives in order to reach for the universal. And the wonderful paradox in life is that the more specific and detailed the narrative, the more universal it becomes. Because if it becomes personal and real to me, the reader, it's more likely that I will find broader meaning and insights that reach beyond the story.

For example, the more Steinbeck makes me believe that a man named Tom Joad coughed up dust while moving from Oklahoma to California, the more I am inspired, as a reader, to consider the injustices of poverty. Way more so, personally, than if I read a historical, socio-political tract about poverty and all the families that were displaced by the dust bowl.

That's kind of the point of fiction (if not art entirely) in my opinion. Bad writing is usually so because it is too generic. If a character feels too much like a blank canvas for an author's ideas, or the setting isn't drawn with enough details, then readers tend to disengage.

In Ulysses, Joyce created a very specific narrative (one day in the life of Leopold Bloom wandering Dublin while he knows his wife is cheating on him) and used a whole bunch of allusions (Homer, primarily, but lots of others) in order to expand this story, its reach, and its meaning. In other words, Joyce was interested in doing more than drawing the reader into a specific plot. He wanted to do a lot of the "universalizing" for you.

I can hang with that.

But then what the hell is Joyce doing here? Because, he's lost specific plot. Or rather, he's layered specific plots so much that there are 500 of them happening simultaneously, AND they all point to 500 historical/mythical/literary/personal allusions.

I read the "prankquean" story (21-23) twice and still don't know what's going on. Looking in Tindall, he explains how it includes/implodes a bunch of myths and historical characters and bundles them all up with the wife-mother figure Anna Livey. (Who is sometimes A.L.P. Who is sometimes a hen? A niece? A wife?) But this is one of those cases where I just think: why not be more clear? I mean, you could still reference all those events, but make the plot of this story-within-a-story-about-stories more comprehensible, couldn't you?

So like I said, I keep looking for some kind of "key," not to decode the book, but to try and decode the intention of the book's structure.

Which I know is fruitless, because Joyce would ever make it so simple. But my inner wannabe-smartypants English major is going crazy.

But.
From Day 3, page 18, it seems significant that ALL of us were drawn to that long, beautiful sentence: "In the ignorance that implies impression…" I think that whole paragraph is really important. Could it function as a kind of description of Finnegans Wake itself?

The first sentence opens up to me in a bunch of ways at the same time:

"(Stoop) if you are abcedminded, to this claybook, what curios of signs (please stoop), in this allaphbed! Can you rede (since We and Thou had it out already) its world? It is the same told of all."
---
Stop if you are absentminded...
Stoop if you are ABC-minded (if you are too literal, or need your language to be regimented)...
…reading this book of the earth, you must be overwhelmed by the strange language and its alphabet.
…to this old, earthen book of curious signs that have a generative quality (alaph (first letter of Hebrew alphabet)+bed).
Can you read its world?
Can you advise or explain (rede) its world?
It's the same story that's been told in many different forms.
---

Whenever any of us dives into a sentence like this (which Nicole's done amazingly, and Kevin's done even with single words), it's a never-ending rabbit hole.

But dammit. Not to strain the metaphor, but I feel like we're catching rabbits. I mean, the sentences DO make sense. The puzzles inside puzzles inside puzzles kind of say something. Don't they?

The second Chapter so far is easier on the surface, but my plot issues still remain. HCE in the park, runs into "the cad," has some kind of encounter over asking the time. HCE overreacts or somehow implies he didn't do something. And then rumors start spreading about HCE's "sin," which apparently remains a mystery for the whole novel…

Onward brave readers. We are not alone.

Week one done.

or...

Weakened one.
We can do-em.
"Wake" end-run.

-Rider

[Nicole]

Wow, Donna! Thanks! I feel like I'm spinning off into some strange infinity in half these posts, so I'm glad they at least make sense to someone!

Today's pages--I'm so pissed that I didn't figure out High Church of England days ago! I've been trying to spin it into Holy Catholic...something beginning with "E"...and clearly was headed the wrong direction. Oh, well.

Phrases of joy: "ours by communionism" (35) (the linguistic amalgam of communion and communism intrigues me); "sinnfinners" (36) (back to Finn and sin again); and "They tell the story (an amalgam as absorbing as calzium chloerydes and hydrophobe sponges could make it)..." (35) (fallacy of equivocation? using two definitions of "absorbing"? Love it).

Also, I'm not sure I can explain why the bottom of p. 38 took me here, but the phrase "...in fealty sworn (my bravor best! my fraur!)" took me back to a college French Lit class in which I spent a lot of time with Baudelaire, and this line feels structurally similar or related to the last line of his poem "Au Lecteur": "--Hypocrite lecteur, --mon semblable, --mon frère!" Which, if I remember correctly, translates to something like "Hyprocrite reader, --my likeness, --my brother!" On further re-reading of this poem (who was talking about rabbit holes again?), much of it is about sin, overindulgence, addiction... and in the end putting the onus of responsibility on the reader (or at least an equal share of it). Connections?

Oh, the rambling. My own inner wannabe-smartypants English major is having a blast with this, but I agree with the "why?" What is the purpose of making the narrative this inaccessible? If all we get are dizzying spirals of language with only the occasional thread of a scene, moment, character to hang onto, what are we really getting out of it?

This isn't a question of despair by any means, just a question!

[Donna]

Can I go back for a sec to the museyroom section? (I'm assuming this part is a tour through some sort of museum.) I kept coming back to it in my mind because I felt like I was thisclose to understanding something, and then it clicked.

Is it a museum dedicated to the Battle of Waterloo? The names, Willingdone & Lipoleum (Wellington & Napolean, obviously) and all the military references, hats, horses, etc etc.

If someone already mentioned this and I missed it, disregard! I can't tell if it's totally obvious and I'm a dolt OR if I'm some kind of "it sorta sounds like..." savant. (Or maybe it's both and I'm an idiot-savant. I'm totally okay with that.)

[Jenna]

Does anyone know / have a theory about the purpose of the backwards / upside down letters? eg backwards E on p36. I'm wondering if the effect is a visual one, ie representing an imbalance / skewing.

P35 mentions the Fenian movement.... which made me wonder again about that triple K combination on p4, and whether or not there is a parallel being drawn.

"wiping their laughleaking lipes on their sleeves, how the bouckaleens shout their roscan generally (seinn fion, seinn fion's araun.)"

With much of this book being written against an intense political backdrop (Irish war for independence, the civil war, reclaiming of the South from Britain etc) the influence of the splitting / dislocation of the country feels strong within the text. Polarities: death, birth; male, female: "dogs death that bitches birth" and military: "caoutchouc kepi and great belt and hideinsacks" etc and of course, those mentioned by Donna above. (Donna, I had not spotted that at all, but having re-read the passage, what you say makes a lot of sense.) Mention of Sinn Fein, I think, adds to this.

On day 8 I am most struck by the change of rhythm and pace. The lyrical, pulsing sentences have given way to vast, paragraph-long sentences - one of which begins at the top of page 41 and ends half way down page 42! I'll be honest, this has frustrated me because I was just starting to get a feel for the text to an end where it was making sense. But this sudden shift in tone has thrown me, like I need to adapt to a new language and start all over again.

Re the plot... Okay, so I caved. I read the Wiki page as far as the end of chapter 1. Wow. Missed a fair few things there. It strikes me that the plot is so deeply embedded within (to quote Nicole) "dizzying spirals of language" that I almost wonder if the plot is not the purpose of the book at all. I'm not sure what the purpose is yet, if indeed I ever will, but I hope to learn a lot from trying to discern it.

Enjoy the next five pages, everyone :)

[Kevin]

Okay, another non-literary, extremely nerdy, almost certainly irrelevant tangent:

So we know that Joyce sprinkles HCE references throughout the book, and thus far we've all been keenly keeping an eye open for adjacent or nearly adjacent words beginning with the letters H, C and E, or the inverse, E, C, and H. As i was doing this myself, however, i found myself wondering how often words beginning with these letters occur spontaneously in texts, and if perhaps i was only noticing these HCE/ECH phrases because i was expecting them. Some kind of cognitive bias.

Now, the part of me that did a course in computational linguistics way back in my undergraduate days thought, Hey! I could write a programme that figures this out! So i did. I wrote a script (a very inefficient one, but it works) that took the text of Finnegans Wake, generated lists of trigrams and 4-grams (all possible strings of 3 or 4 adjacent words), and checked whether the words in those grams began with the letters H, C and E (then E, C and H), in that order.

The result is this:

HCE: 47 instances, 0.608 ptw* (e.g. Here Comes Everybody)
HxCE or HCxE: 27 instances, 0.349 ptw (e.g. Howth Castle and Environs)

ECH: 15 instances, 0.194 ptw (e.g. Etrurian Catholic Heathen)
ExCH or ECxH: 8 instances, 0.104 ptw (e.g. elder children of his)

*ptw: per thousand words

Obviously not all the HCE/ECH phrases my script found are intentional HCE references. Some are probably coincidental (like 'elder children of his'). Intentional or not, however, it does seem like HCE/ECH phrases occur more often in Finnegans Wake than in other texts, especially when it comes to immediately adjacent HCE/ECH words.

Here're the numbers for Melville's Moby Dick:

HCE: 13 instances, 0.062 ptw (about 10 times less likely)
HxCE or HCxE: 17 instances 0.081 ptw (about 4 times less likely)

ECH: 6 instances. 0.029 ptw (about 7 times less likely)
ExCH or ECxH: 11 instances, 0.052 ptw (about 2 times less likely)

And the same for Austen's Sense and Sensibility:

HCE: 14 instances, 0.117 ptw (about 5 times less likely)
HxCE or HCxE: 26 instances, 0.217 ptw (about 1.6 times less likely)

ECH: 14 instances, 0.117 ptw (about 1.6 times less likely)
ExCH or ECxH: 32 instances, 0.267 ptw (about 3 times more likely)

So yeah, we're probably not fooling ourselves, most of the time. =P

If anybody wants me to post a full list of HCE/ECH phrases in Finnegans Wake, i can quite easily do it. I'm just not going to right now because - i don't know - some people might consider it a spoiler.

Disclaimer: I'm obviously not trying to reduce a work of literature into a set of numbers. I was curious, the question happened to be a quantitative one, and i answered it.

[Kevin]

Omg i'm so going to try to find a way to use this word in everyday speech somehow: "Scandiknavery". That's my Joycean nonword of the day for 9 August 2013.

[Tyson]

Jenna- I completely agree with you about the changes in Chapter 2. I was getting comfortable with the rhythm of the text, and then boom Joyce changes it up! I'm sure it was intentional though.

[Nicole]

Jenna, I don't exactly have a theory about the sideways letters, but in my brain they connect to the many references to signs/signa/sigla that have been sprinkled through the text so far. It's related to H.C.E., I think, in that it's a symbol with layers of meaning (like everything else in this book)...we're just starting to see some of the meanings of H.C.E. but not the strangely situated letters yet. I'm willing to sit with it for now and hope it gets some small bit clearer over time.

Donna, I like your theory about the museyroom, although I didn't catch on to this at all when reading it. The references you point out make sense, and maybe help give a little reason to the separate feel of that section.

Kevin, those numbers are a relief! Thanks for exploring to that level and sharing them. At least now we know this isn't entirely in our heads.

New words and phrases I read aloud the most to the disinterested cat yesterday:
"psumpship doodly show" (40)
"funnish enough" (40)
"slept their sleep of the swimborne in the one sweet undulant mother oftumblerbunks" (41)
"a decent sort of the hadbeen variety" (42)

Two notes with a little more depth:

1. The "singleminded supercrowd" (42) is so carefully composed of a broad range of representatives--is this some other type of "Here Comes Everybody"? Because everybody seems to be represented in this crowd.

2. One of my favorite phrases so far, "fresh from snipehitting and mallardmissing on Rutland heath," kind of sums up the experience of reading this book so far--hitting the invisible (and possibly nonexistent) and missing the obvious.

Also, the sentences!! Great Scott! I've taken to making pencil brackets around each sentence's beginning and end (a page and a half later...). I've tried reading them minus the plethora of parentheticals to suss out the meaning more clearly, and I don't feel like I'm winning at this. I mean, we've got Treacle Tom, who's a bit of a shady character, and his roommates, and there's a lot of drinking and bawdy talk (and several Shakespeare references in this section, speaking of bawdy). And a large crowd gathering, although with what motivation I'm really not sure. But it's hard to be sure of much in the midst of these great rollicking waves of sentences. It's a sea-storm of words. It's fun to let them wash over me, but I'm also still grasping for some structure or familiarity in them.

Looking forward to the next five (later today--I'm most of a day behind many of you, I think)...maybe we'll find out what this crowd's up to?

[Jenna]

First of all, Kevin - that HCE data is incredible. Thank you. I have become a bit obsessed by the HCE (and variations thereof) references. So thank you very much for that.

Second of all, Day 9 brings us a song. If anyone is interested, here is the You Tube address to a recording of the song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc15EG...

[Nicole]

Thanks for the link, Jenna! Spawn played it for me on the piano, but getting the vocals is lovely.

After reading to the bottom of p. 47, I felt like I'd just read some bizzare Joycean version of a song from the Les Misérables stage production... "Do You Hear the People Sing?" "When Tomorrow Comes?" I don't remember the correct title, but it's rousing and anthemic and sung by the full ensemble, which I can envision happening with the song in FW as we've got this crowd where everybody seems to be represented (and a recently emerged ringleader egging them on). Why wouldn't they break into song right now?

Also, Spawn made sure to tell me that the song's key is A major. I don't know how this is important, but it doesn't seem like something Joyce would have just picked willy-nilly. (major = military rank, possible war connection? Parts of the song seem to be decrying a poor leader, so maybe?)

Also-also, the single square brackets with no closing brackets? WTH? Again, not sure what purpose they serve, although they do leave me with a sense of unfinished statements, like they are continuing off the page and we aren't getting the whole story.


And then we enter chapter 3, where I feel more lost than ever. We're back to some Finn references, and another mention of Scheherazade, which makes me think we're reconnecting with the first chapter/section, but other than that I couldn't even take an educated stab at anything else happening here. Is anyone else able to parse these pages at all?

[Kevin]

I'm not getting chapter 3 at all so far. I am, however, fascinated by this word, "reamalgamerge".

[Greta]

Well, here we are, fifty pages in, which is where I normally get to bail out of a book if I want to. But because of all you folks out here sticking with it, I think I'll continue reading. Kevin, thank you for your HCE data. That was a really nice aside. I find my mind wandering too but I can't write computer code so I'm glad you can because it gave me something tangible and interesting to focus on. Today I found my mind wandering again as I was reading and I discovered that James Joyce's writing could be described as a sort of “Charlie Brown teacher” for me. According to Urban Dictionary this is “any speech that has been slurred from drunkenness, distorted by lousy loudspeakers, or just rendered incomprehensible by other means.” James Joyce did it all by himself. And I'm just like Peppermint Patty when I read these big books written by this particular Charlie Brown teacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hUL...

[Jenna]

Nicole, I know what you mean about the song. I hammered it out on my guitar too, to see if it is a known-tune, and when I didn't recognise it, Googled it! Yes, the key is indeed A Major. I don't know if that means anything, but I wouldn't be surprised. Also of note about the song is that there appear to be missing semi-quaver beats in bars 2 and 8. (????) Also (and perhaps un-commentworthy, as this is often the case with music) the final bar and first bar make up the 6 quaver beats of the 6/8 time signature together. ie the first bar has 3 quaver beats and the last bar has 3 quaver beats. This reminded me of the cyclical shape of this book. The first line of the book and the last line of the book making a single sentence. Maybe cycles are something we need to watch out for? From what little plot I can garner, there is a reincarnation theme ("... disappeared... from the sourface of this earth, that austral plain he had transmaried himself to..." - p50. The cycle of birth, death, rebirth etc seems a strong theme.

However, what struck me most about the song is the many agricultural references, including the line "seven dry Sundays a week" (Irish famine?), and dairy farming. There is also a reference to the Genesis brothers, Cain and Abel in the last line. "able to raise a Cain". I'm afraid my knowledge of Biblical stories is not great, but I Googled Cain and Abel and was interested to find that they are associated with agriculture and livestock. Also, apparently the name Abel comes from the Arabic Ibil, which has something to do with herding camels (the word 'camel' also appears in the song!).

There is a lot of mention of HCE's crime or sin, as well as references to others' sins and crimes, which got me thinking about whether the crime / sin committed in the Cain and Able story (fratricide / lying to God) might be relevant in some way.

Incidentally, on the subject of crime, I felt vaguely amused by the line (p49) "to satisfy his literary as well as his criminal aspirations, at the suggestion thrown out by the doomster in loquacity lunacy..." - literature / crime / chatty lunatic. I had a bit of a giggle over this as I'm sure some would consider the lunatic loquacity of Finnegans Wake crimes against literature.

Greta, I know exactly what you mean with the adults / teachers from Charlie Brown. Wah-wah-wah! That's EXACTLY what reading this feels like at times. Brilliant analogy. And you are right - usually if I am not fully gripped by a book 50 pages in, it goes back on the shelf and to the bottom of my reading pile. There is really something to be said for reading and discussing this as a team.

Chapter 3 is an odd one. The sentences feel more literal and I feel like I am understanding more words, but I am no closer to understanding what is happening. I feel that I am just being bombarded with images (favourite being the "objectionable ass" with his hat on sideways - p50!)

Day 10 reading: a few mentions of / references to the number three. "three" p51, "nine" (3X3) p51, "triad" p52, "chee chees cheers" (three cheers) p53. Really not sure whether to make anything of this yet, but thought I would mention it!

Favourite phrase today: "sukand see" p52 ;)

[Donna]

After 50 pages, I am no closer to answering the question I started this project with:
Joyce - a genius, or a man who could've benefited from some lithium?

We may never know. What we do know is the man appreciates a dance break as much as the next guy. (I'm positive there's a dance to accompany the song.)

My question for the next 50 pages: what in the HELL is going on?!

[Jenna]

Day 11

More references to agriculture in sentences about life and death on p55:

"Life, he himself said once, (his biografiend, in fact kills him verysoon, if yet not after) is a wake, livit or krikit, and on the bunk of our bread [bunkbed???] winning lies the cropse [crops / corpse] of our seedfather...."

I am also interested in the bleak imagery of death, expiration and annihilation on p58:

"For his muertification and uxpiration and dumnation and annuhulation."

"Longtong's breach is fallen down..." - London Bridge. I don't know if any of you not in the UK know the rhyme, London Bridge is falling down, but if not this seems to be a reference. I'm not sure if the rhyme relates to a specific event in UK history.

Very interested in this line from p58:

"But, lo! lo! by the threnning gods, human, erring and condonable..."

In addition to an out of sequence HCE, I'm wondering if this is a comment on the humanness of gods / divinity of humanity, seeming to draw its foundations from the saying 'To err is human, to forgive [or condone?] divine'.

Interesting to see a very obvious and I'm sure very intentional grammatical error on p57:

"... an People...."

It seems that one of the objectives of this book was to dismantle common / traditional conceptions about the English language.

Favourite line p55:

".... with one still sadder circumstance which is a dirkandurk heartskewer if ever to bring bouncing brimmers from marbled eyes."

This image of crying eyes is very vivid.

Favourite word: "factferreters" p55.

Sorry if there are spelling / typing errors in this post. I'm using my mobile phone as I'm on a train and the autocorrect function is going nuts!

[Trina]

Thanks Jenna! I completely missed the 'London Bridge' reference! If I remember correctly, that rhyme refers to the Black Plague.

[Trina]

Did the phrase "Dyas in his machina" on p. 55 remind anyone else of "deus ex machina" (an improbable character or unconvincing event used to resolve a plot)?

[Nicole]

When Spawn was much younger than he is now, he had this book, called Lookalikes, in which every picture looked like very much like one thing but was actually another thing (or, often, multiple other things).

Today's reading reminded me of that book, and Trina, the "Dyas in his machina"/Deus ex machina bit definitely felt like this to me.

Others I marked:
"interfeud in a waistend pewty parlour" (58)-- interviewed in a West End beauty parlor?

"chimed din width the eatmost boviality" (58)-- chimed in with the utmost joviality?

"may the mouther of guard have mastic on him!" (55)-- may the mother of god have mercy on him?

"Madam's Toshowus waxes" (57)-- Madame Tussaud's waxes? (Is this too contemporary a reference? I have no clue how long MT wax likenesses have been a thing)

I'm probably missing dozens, and to some extent these have been here throughout, but today they really jumped out at me, as did the heavy return to alliterative phrasing. So many of these that I didn't even bother to jot them down!

I think it was "Ring Around the Rosy" that was about the plague, although it probably isn't the only one. Not sure what the history of "London Bridge is Falling Down" is, but I'm outside of the UK and definitely heard this one as a child. Although, I also missed the reference, so...

Speaking of references--what's up with the eyes? They're everywhere in this batch of pages!! And hats. But the eyes seem more significant, and more prevalent.

And I'm definitely seeing the threes you mention, Jenna. Dablena Tertia, freak threes, a holy trinity reference, and several others I can't find now that I'm looking for them. Also seems important, although I couldn't tell you what it might mean.

Does anyone still have a clear sense for who "he" is? Occasionally we get the personal pronoun that reminds me we're actually following a character closely, but I've lost track of who this character is at this point. A version of H.C.E.? Tom Treacle? Someone else? The guy from the crowd with the hat?

"factferreter" is an absolute win of a word, and I love this sentence: "Thus the unfacts, did we possess them, are too imprecisely few to warrant our certitude" (57). It's another sentence that strikes me as a sentence about reading this book--we have so much disconnected information that just about anything could be a fact, so maybe the better approach is to try to figure out the unfacts in order to gain certitude? I'm not sure this will be any more successful (for me, at least), but I still appreciate that whirligig of a sentence.

[Trina]

You're right, Nicole - Ring Around the Rosy is the rhyme about The Plague. According to Wikipedia, no one knows the meaning behind the London Bridge rhyme but there are many theories. One involves the belief that a bridge would fall down unless a human sacrifice was made and the remains buried somewhere in the structure of the bridge! I prefer the theory that it was about the bridge being in bad shape and needing repairs - more literal and not so gruesome.

[Princess]

On playing catch-up and reading 50 pages straight through, I can't help but scratch my head, "huh." Thank God we are doing this as a group because reading everyone's comments gave some intrigue to an otherwise confusing text. But as I trudge on I'll say that I can't help by latch on to the sound of sentences like, "And all the way (a horn!) from fjord to fjell his baywinds' oboboes shall wail him rockbound (hoahoahoah!) in swimswamswum and all the livvy-long night, the delldale dalppling night, the night of bluerybells, her flittaflute in tricky trochees (O carina! O carina!) wake him." Poetic.

[Matt]

Budget is low, but as soon as I get that good ole library card, i'm in!

[Tyson]

Even on Day 12 I find myself looking for that Aha! Moment. Sometimes it is a little distracting, but still really enjoying the text.

Favorite word today: pseudojocax

[Jennifer]

The past few days of reading have been rough for me. The switch to longer sentences is slowing me down.

Today, the sentence, "We seem to us (the real Us!) to be reading our Amenti in the sixth sealed chapter of the going forth by black," jumped out to me. The "(the real Us!)" and the reference to reading makes me want to view this as Joyce breaking the forth wall, saying something about the experience we're all having reading the book. Though, I have no idea what he may be saying.

Since the paragraph moves on to a man with suspicious parcel, I think that my reading is probably more off than usual. (of course, we'll see how the paragraph goes tomorrow.)

Perhaps, I'm revealing my own wish for Joyce to give me a wink and nod-- something to signal that he knows that he is be awful obtuse a pretentious.

My favorite words for the day are "propogandering" and "interfizzing."

[Donna]

Can one of you guys do me a favour? Could you let me know the page numbers of chapters 3 & 4? I'm reading on my Kindle, so there are no page numbers and it's sometimes hard to gauge where I am in my 5-page-a-day progress. Thanks in advance! It'd be greatly appreciated!

[Kevin]

Donna wrote: "Can one of you guys do me a favour? Could you let me know the page numbers of chapters 3 & 4? I'm reading on my Kindle, so there are no page numbers and it's sometimes hard to gauge where I am in m..."

Chapter 3 begins on page 48, and Chapter 4 on page 75.

[Thomas]

Hi Donna,

I'm reading along on my Kindle too, so I'm using the website below to keep track of where each page begins and ends:

http://www.trentu.ca/faculty/jjoyce/

They have the entire text of the book there broken down by page. It even has line numbers!

[Stephanie "Jedigal"]

I don't know what this is about, but I notice a repetition of ABC references -
p64 - Alphos, Burkos and Caramis
p65 - Arty, Bert or possibly Charley Chance

Reading this REALLY makes me unhappy that I didn't do more foreign language studies in HS and college. A little Spanish, a little German, but not enough to converse. Reading this book is so much like listening to foreign language speakers and being able to pick a word or phrase here and there, but no real sense of anything.

Was actually able to decipher on German reference in today's reading - page 66:
all those sort of things which has been going on onceaday in and twiceaday out every other natchtistag - nachtistag would be nightisday.

Still no clue as to what is or might be "happening" in the plot if any. Every time I think I can picture some 'action' the following text fails to illuminate and the next time I pick up any 'action' it doesn't seem to follow logically from anything prior.

[Matt]

Got the book checked out today from the Mississippi College library. Looking forward to it.

[Donna]

Excellent, thanks Thomas!

[Jennifer]

I’ve been thinking about the quote, which Stephanie mentioned, on how Finnegans Wake is a Rorschach test for the reader. The book seems to have become one for me. For instance, I wanted read "they were all night wasching the walters of, the weltering walter off. Whyte" as some sort of Breaking Bad reference. When in reality, Joyce is probably referring to some people watching the ocean. I may never figure out what is going on in the book, but I suspect I'm going to know my subconscious a little better.

[Kevin]

Stephanie "Jedigal" wrote: Reading this book is so much like listening to foreign language speakers and being able to pick a word or phrase here and there, but no real sense of anything.

Oh that's exactly how it is for me. Haha. It's quite a thrill, though, when you do manage to catch something.

[Jenna]

First of all... Stephanie, you have described exactly how I feel reading Finnegans Wake. I find that I am constantly rebuking myself for not being multi-lingual!

Days 12 - 14

Sentences are making sense!! Woohoo!! Joyce - that trickster - is taunting and teasing us with small snippets of cohesive narrative (ish). They make it worth wading through the gibberish.

Crime. Guns. Murder and Manslaughter. The penal system (“being taught to wear bracelets” (p60)- handcuffs?).

And a female detective with a speech impediment (with some wise words):

“... leaned back in her really truly easy chair to query restfully through her vowelthreaded syllabelles: Have you evew thought, wepowtew. that sheew gweatness was his twadgedy?...” (p61)

As I read Finnegans Wake I am increasingly convinced of the notion that this book is breaking the rules of... no, in fact, REBELLING against conventional narrative structure. For example, in the extract above, there are no quotation points or speech punctuation.

I think that the ‘greatness was his tragedy’ reference could be applied to this book. It is SO great. SO clever. So much so, that it is beyond comprehension, which is a tragedy as its greatness cannot ever be truly appreciated. I would love to know what reaction Joyce was hoping to elicit from his readers with lines like this.

I also love the description "vowelthreaded". This makes me smile, for its descriptive perfection and originality. :)

Jennifer, I know what you mean about “the real Us!” (p62). I also had the feeling of the fourth wall being broken, which again is a breach of the typical rules of third-person narrative.

In addition:

“weathering against him in mooxed metaphores...”

Mixed metaphors: a quick and precise identification of bad writing; a writer’s nightmare and (sometimes) guilty pleasure.

Does anyone else get the sense that the plot is not happening in the ‘now’? Everything seems to be recurring:

“reberthing in remarriment...” (p62)

Now I think of it, I’m sure that this has been a recurring (!!!) feature in the text so far, but I am only just starting to recognise it. I now feel the urge to re-read (!!!) everything so far in order to focus on such phrases.

Ultimately, this gives the feeling that nothing is real. Everything is a cycle or a re-living or a re-happening:

“And roll away the reel world, the reel world, the reel world!” (p64)

The pun on the words ‘real’ and ‘reel’ bring to mind a strip of movie reel. On film, the world looks real, but isn't - it's just a moving image. It creates the feeling of events being distanced or dissociated from reality. (Perhaps bringing back the theory of a dream state, or a sub-conscious state?)

“If violence to life, limb and chattels, often as not, has been the expression, direct or through an agent male, of womanhood offended....” (p68-69) - Domestic violence? HCE? Is this his crime?

I’m interested in the Lupita Lorette / Lupera Latouche passage on p67-68. As well as a hint of incest, voyeurism rears its head (HCE's crime?):

“finding one day while dodging chores that she stripped teasily for binocular man...” (p68)

In addition, I had a good giggle at the line “there are certain intimacies in all ladies’ lavastories we just lease to imagination” (p68). In addition to liking the play on the words ‘lavatories’ and ‘stories’ and the hilarity of this writing, the difference between men and women, both in terms of gender and perception of each other, is highlighted.

Oh, Finnegan’s God is a vengeful God!:

“Him Which Thundereth From On High” (p62)

It’s getting me thinking about the picture being painted of religion, particularly Catholicism. There is an interesting sequence on page 72 examining libertarian and fundamentalist debate in religion.

Nicole, I'm afraid I don't have a sense of who HCE is. A man. A voyeur? Someone who is reliving an already re-lived life? Whilst the sentences have been (largely) comprehensible in Chapter 3, the plot is still too hidden for me. So far, I am perceiving the book as a sequence of images, which sometimes link together and sometimes don't (much like a dream)!

Disturbing image of the week: “And Phelps was flayful with his peeler” (p67)

Happy next-five-pages, everyone.

[Princess]

I feel like I'm reading a Dr. Seuss book when read these words that don't look quite English and the rhymes within rhymes. What an imagination to come up with words like jimpjoyed (68).

Favorite word today: blanchessance (66)
Favorite phrase: ...black looking white and white guarding black, in that siamixed twoatalk used... (66)