Cronin, Justin -- The Twelve -- start date August 28th 2013

[SandyC]

Yep, I felt bad for him too.

[Lisarenee]

Sandy asked, "So, Ignacio was one of the compound workers, like Grey? Does each member of the Twelve still have a "familiar" such as those men still hanging around after 97 years? I don't know where Martinez went. Is it possible the Twelve (11 + Zero - Babcock) are gathering somewhere?"

I wish we knew more about how the familiars were chosen/selected and made. I did find this in the Passage:
'In the locker room on L4, Grey switched out his jumpsuit for scrubs. Two other men were there, sweeps like him, one named Jude and one named Ignacio. On the wall, a large whiteboard listed the duties of each worker for the shift. They dressed together without speaking and exited the room."

So now we know about Jude and Ignacio. They did work with Grey at the vampire testing/creation center in Colorado.

[Lisarenee]

I'm behind on my reading. I'm going back to it. Hopefully I'll get the next set of questions up in a couple of hours. Sorry. It's my son's birthday and yesterday I had to shop and take my daughter to see City of Bones.

[SandyC]

Lisarenee wrote: "Sandy asked, "So, Ignacio was one of the compound workers, like Grey? Does each member of the Twelve still have a "familiar" such as those men still hanging around after 97 years? I don't know wher..."

Oh! Thank you! I didn't recall AT ALL about Jude being at the compound. VERY interesting!

[SandyC]

Lisarenee wrote: "I'm behind on my reading. I'm going back to it. Hopefully I'll get the next set of questions up in a couple of hours. Sorry. It's my son's birthday and yesterday I had to shop and take my daughter ..."

I'm behind too (as always!) My husband and I saw City of Bones on Friday. I liked the movie better than the book! I've never been a big Jace and Clary fan. I'm more of a Simon girl. :-)

[Lisarenee]

Sandy wrote: "Lisarenee wrote: "I'm behind on my reading. I'm going back to it. Hopefully I'll get the next set of questions up in a couple of hours. Sorry. It's my son's birthday and yesterday I had to shop and..."

So am I. lol

[Lisarenee]

Clare said, "I really like April. She must survive if her descendant is Alicia. I presume she is the baby that April has?

Going by timeline, there is 100 span between April and Alicia. April had a son named Bernard (after his daddy). So perhaps, April is Alicia's Great Grandmother?

[Lisarenee]

Don & Angel Donadio ----> Alicia
Bernard Kittridge & April Donadio ----> Bernard Donadio

[Lisarenee]

Questions and Commentst for Chapters 30 - 39

Can I just say I am very confused at this point? Almost as much as I was about Mylie Cyrus' performance at the VMAs.

39) So as was suspected, all the 12 have familiars. What was unexpected was that Amy does too, but it's not Peter. It's Greer??? Well, I guess we now know why he didn't ask Peter about Amy. He already knew.

40) Anyone besides me thinking that animal lovers are not going to love this book? First the cat then the deer.

41) Why is Lore so interested in Alicia?

42) So it sounds like the mysterious woman isn't Lila's child, but perhaps Lila herself?

43) So Carter's familiar is a dead woman? What!? To me that makes absolutely no sense? So he's not an evil one of the 12. Perhaps it was his virals who protected the farm where Caleb was born? Where was he originally from?

44) TMI about Martinez. Eew! So the 12 or 11 are discarding their virals? They no longer need them.

45) So Lila is the latest of the 12 it would seem. If this is true, then can I just say that the jumping around of the timeline is really poorly done?

46) Wow! Sarah is alive and those being lifted to the sky are living like slaves. I feel so bad for her. Do you think her child really died? Remember Lila's dream about shooting the babies? Is there some significance there? Do virals eat them. *shudder*

47) What's the deal with Lawrence Grey and Guilder? Do I really want to know? 'Undid his trousers and tossed them away'? *shudder* I thought they said, "(The virus pretty much gutted that part of your brain like a trout; most of the staff couldn’t even bring themselves to look at a woman without making a face.) Does that mean that men were still fair game? *shudder again* Now I wonder is Grey truly Zero's familiar or something else?

48) Who is Sergio?

49) So is Alicia like one of those vegan vampires from twilight? Only eats animal's blood?

[Lisarenee]

Questions and Comments for Chapters 40 - 52:

50) So Sara is enlisted by the insurgents and is assigned to being an attendant for Lila and her very own daughter who didn't die after all. I had wondered if the baby survived.

51) Alicia's imprisonment is brutal and hard to read.

52) So if they suspect that the city that Hollis, Tifty, and Vorhee all passed is where they're taken people, why hasn't anyone acted sooner and why couldn't they tell anyone about it? It's been 5 years. Does this seem strange to anyone else? Did it have to do with all the virals guarding it?

53) Well at least Lawrence Grey's imprisonment while still awful and inhumane, wasn't as bad as I suspected. They're basically doing the same to him as they do to the people. So my question is, if they felt it okay to do that to Grey, why not Lila too? Heck Guilder physically knocked her around. Was it truly just because of her viral calming ability?

54) Anyone else think it was strange that they planted Sara in the Dome, but didn't seem to utilize her?

55) Thoughts on the "look them in the eye" defense? Would you want to do that? Did this bring to anyone else's mind Doctor Who and Weeping Angels (statues that look more like vampires with wings that if you blink will move so fast that they'll get you)? Do you think Peter has a special ability?

56) So Wolgast is a Viral? One of Anthony's?

[SandyC]

Questions and Comments for Chapters 30 - 39

Can I just say I am very confused at this point? Almost as much as I was about Mylie Cyrus' performance at the VMAs.
Ha ha!!!!

39) So as was suspected, all the 12 have familiars. What was unexpected was that Amy does too, but it's not Peter. It's Greer??? Well, I guess we now know why he didn't ask Peter about Amy. He already knew.
Yes, I found that very weird and I am wondering how did Greer become her familiar? Weren’t the others “made” by being attacked/bitten? Not really clear on this one. I can’t picture Amy biting Greer or him drinking her blood.

40) Anyone besides me thinking that animal lovers are not going to love this book? First the cat then the deer.
Poor Mouser! This made me really sad b/c I had to put down my 17-year-old cat last year. :-(

41) Why is Lore so interested in Alicia?
Perhaps they are related somehow? Or, she knows that Alicia is someone important to Michael so she wants to learn more about her?

42) So it sounds like the mysterious woman isn't Lila's child, but perhaps Lila herself?
Yep, I was thinking it was Lila before that was revealed.

43) So Carter's familiar is a dead woman? What!? To me that makes absolutely no sense? So he's not an evil one of the 12. Perhaps it was his virals who protected the farm where Caleb was born? Where was he originally from?
Carter is the handyman whose employer drowned (apparently killed herself, but he was convicted of murdering her). So, Carter isn’t really a criminal. And yes, I really like your thought that he and his virals protected the farmhouse!!

44) TMI about Martinez. Eew! So the 12 or 11 are discarding their virals? They no longer need them.
I am wondering why?

45) So Lila is the latest of the 12 it would seem. If this is true, then can I just say that the jumping around of the timeline is really poorly done?
It keeps us on our toes, that’s for sure! But, I am glad she’s not completely out of the story since Cronin spent so much time on her earlier.
46) Wow! Sarah is alive and those being lifted to the sky are living like slaves. I feel so bad for her. Do you think her child really died? Remember Lila's dream about shooting the babies? Is there some significance there? Do virals eat them. *shudder*
While reading this section, I thought, am I reading a Dystopian novel or a Holocaust novel? That’s what it sounded like: the Jews being rounded up. *shudder* I don’t remember Lila’s dream, but that is definitely a good reference. I also thought that the baby didn’t really die, but I didn’t think they were viral-food. I think you may be right.

47) What's the deal with Lawrence Grey and Guilder? Do I really want to know? 'Undid his trousers and tossed them away'? *shudder* I thought they said, "(The virus pretty much gutted that part of your brain like a trout; most of the staff couldn’t even bring themselves to look at a woman without making a face.) Does that mean that men were still fair game? *shudder again* Now I wonder is Grey truly Zero's familiar or something else?
Yeah, not sure I want to know! I think Guilder gets some kind of power from drinking Grey’s blood? Or maybe I watch too much True Blood!

48) Who is Sergio?
I think Sergio is more of a concept than an actual person. It’s a revolutionary idea. Now I feel like I’m reading Catching Fire.

49) So is Alicia like one of those vegan vampires from twilight? Only eats animal's blood? Sounds like it.

[Lisarenee]

Sandy Said, "Yes, I found that very weird and I am wondering how did Greer become her familiar? Weren’t the others “made” by being attacked/bitten? Not really clear on this one. I can’t picture Amy biting Greer or him drinking her blood."

I thought if anyone Alicia might be. As to how they are made maybe it's via a sharing of blood? I'm not sure.

Sandy said, "Poor Mouser! This made me really sad b/c I had to put down my 17-year-old cat last year. :-("

:( I had to do that several years ago. Very Sad. Sorry about your cat.

Sandy Said, "Perhaps they are related somehow? Or, she knows that Alicia is someone important to Michael so she wants to learn more about her?

I actually had searched to see if I could find out her last name and got nothing. There has to be a reason. It was rather odd and not subtle. I don't recall Michael having a thing for Alicia either.

Sandy said, "I am wondering why?"

I do too. Maybe their usefulness has passed?

Sandy said, "While reading this section, I thought, am I reading a Dystopian novel or a Holocaust novel? That’s what it sounded like: the Jews being rounded up. *shudder* I don’t remember Lila’s dream, but that is definitely a good reference. I also thought that the baby didn’t really die, but I didn’t think they were viral-food. I think you may be right."

A lot of books go the Holocaust route. I see it time and time again in literature.

Sandy said, "Or maybe I watch too much True Blood!"

lol maybe the author does too.

Sandy said, "Now I feel like I’m reading Catching Fire."

:) A lot of recurring themes from other books including the bible.

[Lisarenee]

Questions and Comments for Chapter 53 - end

57) I'm not sure what to make of the ending. It was suspenseful, but I have so many questions. What did you make of Amy's transformation? I guess that was what the pains were from. Did you like learning of her growth spurt prior? I just assumed she gradually aged. That was an interesting piece of information.

59) So Amy has the same powers as Lila. Interesting. Do you think she'll have more powers in upcoming books? If she could control the virals, can she do the same to Zero? What is the deal with Zero? Was he an undiscovered criminal/murderer before he was turned? He definitely wasn't in prison. There was some talk in the last book about him liking woman, but I didn't think he murdered or raped them. What's his story?

60) Lila coming back to herself was interesting, but confusing too.

61) So now only zero remains or did some of the 12 escape? I wonder where Zero's been hiding?

62) I wonder how Hollis and Sara will get along? He changed a lot from who he had been.

63) Poor Wolgast. I can't believe he as still alive.

63) Final thoughts? What will you rate it?

64) Up for reading the third book?

[SandyC]

Questions and Comments for Chapters 40 - 52:

50) So Sara is enlisted by the insurgents and is assigned to being an attendant for Lila and her very own daughter who didn't die after all. I had wondered if the baby survived.
I’m glad she did! (I still keep hoping the Khaleesi’s baby survived and Ser Jorah is hiding him)

51) Alicia's imprisonment is brutal and hard to read.
Yes, very, I was grateful for the fade to black at the end of the chapter.

52) So if they suspect that the city that Hollis, Tifty, and Vorhee all passed is where they're taken people, why hasn't anyone acted sooner and why couldn't they tell anyone about it? It's been 5 years. Does this seem strange to anyone else? Did it have to do with all the virals guarding it?
It’s very strange. I wonder if someone in the military is in cahoots with Guilder.

53) Well at least Lawrence Grey's imprisonment while still awful and inhumane, wasn't as bad as I suspected. They're basically doing the same to him as they do to the people. So my question is, if they felt it okay to do that to Grey, why not Lila too? Heck Guilder physically knocked her around. Was it truly just because of her viral calming ability?
I think that, and the fact that she’s nutty as a fruitcake. If they tied her up, she could command the virals to kill them. My biggest question is how is it that she hasn’t communicated with Brad, since she can communicate with virals?

54) Anyone else think it was strange that they planted Sara in the Dome, but didn't seem to utilize her?
I think they are trying to build up Lila’s trust in her before they make any kind of move.

55) Thoughts on the "look them in the eye" defense? Would you want to do that? Did this bring to anyone else's mind Doctor Who and Weeping Angels (statues that look more like vampires with wings that if you blink will move so fast that they'll get you)? Do you think Peter has a special ability?
I would be too dang scared to look them in the eye. I don’t watch that show (keep meaning to!). I think Peter does have a special ability, and this strategy may not work with everyone.

56) So Wolgast is a Viral? One of Anthony's?
Yes. So, I recall that Carter was about to attack Wolgast and Amy in the Passage, when Sister Lacey came along. Is that right? Did Carter bite Wolgast? Just wonder how they hooked up. Last we saw Wolgast as human he was dying of radiation? Then, at the very end of the Passage, he came to Amy, right?

[SandyC]

Questions and Comments for Chapter 53 - end

57) I'm not sure what to make of the ending. It was suspenseful, but I have so many questions. What did you make of Amy's transformation? I guess that was what the pains were from. Did you like learning of her growth spurt prior? I just assumed she gradually aged. That was an interesting piece of information.
I was confused and have lots of questions too. Amy transformed, but in the ship she is in a dream world? Not sure how that workds.

59) So Amy has the same powers as Lila. Interesting. Do you think she'll have more powers in upcoming books? If she could control the virals, can she do the same to Zero? What is the deal with Zero? Was he an undiscovered criminal/murderer before he was turned? He definitely wasn't in prison. There was some talk in the last book about him liking woman, but I didn't think he murdered or raped them. What's his story?
I liked her Jedi mind tricks. I would think her powers would increase. Did you read the section Dramatis Personae? It said that Zero is Fanning:
“Tim Fanning, a.k.a. “The Zero.” Professor of biochemistry, Columbia University. Infected by CV-0 virus on scientific expedition to Bolivia, Feb. 21, 20xx.”
I want to go back and read that section in the Passage, where they’re in the jungle.

60) Lila coming back to herself was interesting, but confusing too.
I am so glad she came back to herself. She finally came to terms with what happened to Eva, and with the reality of her situation. I like how she saved Grey, though I’m sad they had to die. (Then again, who really stays dead in these books??)

61) So now only zero remains or did some of the 12 escape? I wonder where Zero's been hiding?
It sounded like they all died. Does that mean all the virals in the world died, except for Zero’s? Guess we’ll find out!

62) I wonder how Hollis and Sara will get along? He changed a lot from who he had been.
I know. 5 years is a long time. And they’ve both been through a lot. Now all of a sudden they have a daughter. Will be an adjustment!

63) Poor Wolgast. I can't believe he is still alive.
I was confused about this. Is he alive, or in the “dream world” with Lila and Eva?

63) Final thoughts? What will you rate it?
I gave it 4 stars. I thought it lost a lot of the originality of the first book and had a lot of been-there, done- that scenarios.

64) Up for reading the third book?
Oh, yes, indeed. My copy had an excerpt of City of Mirrors. Did you read it? It was really sad.

[Kathy]

I read this book before I discovered this groovy group - but wanted to weigh in on the last two questions: 63) Final thoughts? What will you rate it?
I gave it 4 stars as well. I L O V E D the Passage. Thought it was original and interesting and really enjoyed just seeing how a society rebuilt itself. But wish I would have read the two books closer together. By the time the Twelve came out I must have forgotten a bunch of stuff because for the first 1/3 of the book I was a little lost. That said, it was still pretty interesting and kept me engaged.

64) Up for reading the third book?
Absolutely. Bring it on!