Self Publishing??

[Toni]

Hi, my name is Toni. I am new to group. I am an avid reader and I am a writer. I have been going through the process of getting my books published the traditional way, agents, querie letters and its grueling. I have recently been looking into self publishing, but i am extremely leary of it. Copywriting? Editing? Book covers? And don't even get me started on blogging. Not a clue on how to do that!!! Very overwhelming. Any advice would be extremely welcome. Actually I need as much advice and insight as humanly possible. Thank you so much. Looking forward to hearing from you.

[Francis]

I think you have to be prepared... You could do all that and still struggle to make any sales.

It's all a bit of an adventure, really. And takes up a lot of time.

I'm not saying don't do it, but you can't view it as the simple option.

[Toni]

Thanks, Francis. I know how hard it can be, which is why I am still struggling with the decision. Definitly not an easy one.

[Megan]

Even if you get an agent and a book deal, you would still be expected to blog and create a social media presence. Just a heads up :-)

[Toni]

Thanks Megan. I figured ss much, but was thinking at least with that I would have some kind of guidance as opposed to flying blind, which is what I'd be doing right now.

[Ubiquitous]

For many of us, the traditional publishing route is one we chose not to take. I'm not saying it's the right path for everyone, but self publishing was right for me. There are a number of people here on Goodreads who have some very wise advice regarding self publishing.

I would suggest that the proofreading, editing, and cover art are not the most significant contributions of a publisher. If you look for them, you can find proofreaders, editors, and cover designers who are very reasonable. In my ever so humble opinion, the publisher's greatest contribution is in marketing. Self published authors don't usually have a large (meaning >$0) budget for marketing.

A traditional publisher can offer some promotional funds and marketing savy that may make the difference between sales and obscurity. On the other hand, a traditional publisher may not be able to allow the luxury of time for your audience to find your book. In some cases, books that do not sell quickly are returned to the publisher and you may find yourself with a garage full of unsold masterpieces. A self published author won't have the marketing machinery to promote their work, but they can sometimes make up for that with longevity. When a self published author leaves their eBooks available online and focuses on writing more books, the pressure to move a lot of merchandise in a short period of time is removed.

Being a self published author is similar to being an independent artist, musician, or small business owner. There is no one else to set your deadlines, check your work, or direct your activities. That can be a scary thing. It can also feel like freedom. As a self published author, you write the stories you want to tell, schedule your time to suit your life, and focus your attention where you decide it's needed. You may not sell as many copies. There may not be a lot of money in your immediate future. You may fall into unfamiliar waters. It's okay. You're in good company.

The best advice I've heard for self published authors is to discipline yourself to write according to a realisitic schedule. (I don't necessarily do this all that well...) Schedule time for self-promotion, time for daydreaming, time for writing, and time for editing.

In the past, it may have been more common for a publisher to take care of all of the details and leave the author free to focus exclusively on the writing. As authors today, we are more directly in charge of our own destiny. We can choose to see this as a good thing in that we can connect more directly with our readers than ever before. I feel that this new world of publishing returns us closer to our roots as storytellers. In my opinion, the freedom of self publishing is an exciting challenge. I'm happy to be a self published author.

[Toni]

Thank you so much Ubiquitious and Lou for your advice. Currently I have a paranormal YA series thats finished. Another paranormal adult series that is currently in the works. That's always what I have veered towards. BUT, i have been branching out and have many other genres in the works. Too many ideas and not enough time. I have only sent to agents thus far. Never thought about sending to different publishing houses. I have looked into Smashwords as far as self-pub. But it was a quick perusal, just to get an idea on what I would be looking at. My biggest concern is editing. That to me can make or break you. I don't have alot of money to put into this, being a stay at home mother of 4.. So... That is where I am at. I want to take the plunge, just want to make sure if I self-pub, I go the right route and am able to put out the best book that I am capable of putting out there. Thank you again for your thoughts.

[Ubiquitous]

There are some folks on Goodreads who have offered their editorial services. I can't speak for any of them from personal experience, but there are folks available who may be affordable. Self-editing is another possibility, but we all know the risks that carries. As authors, it is natural to be somewhat blind to our mistakes and that's why an objective editor can be so helpful.

There are a lot of self published authors who did not have money for an editor. Some need an editor's services more than others. Generally speaking, most of our books would benefit from some good editing.

Here's how I look at it. Others will certainly disagree. I come from a background in writing and recording music. In that world, a musician may be capable of creating an excellent recording. When they're done, however, they usually send the finished product to a mastering engineer who perfects the final sound of the recording. Independent musicians often can't afford a mastering engineer. They have to make a decision: Do the best they can with what they have, or postpone indefinately until they can afford to "do it right"? If you choose the former, you must be willing to accept the fact that it is only as good as you can make it by yourself. If you can be happy with that, then go for it. If you cannot be satisfied with the self-produced product, then wait until you are ready to invest the necessary funds.

I know there are some authors posting here on Goodreads who will say that an author should never attempt to edit their own work and that a professional editor is essential to producing a professional book. I don't disagree with them entirely, but I do think there may be exceptions. I chose not to pay for editorial services for my first book not because I considered it unnecessary, but because I simply could not afford it. Many of the authors I've spoken with about this have said that my decision was foolish and shortsighted. They may be right, but I knew that my choice was either to publish what I could with the tools at my disposal, or not to publish at all. I chose the former. Some may say that was the wrong choice, but to me, it was the only one.

[Francis]

Actually, I think Smashwords will accept EPUB as well, now.

[Toni]

Thank you. You both gave me alot to think about. I mentioned Smashwords because I have been reading alot of indie authors from different genres and noticed that most of them used smashwords. If you think Smashwords is subpar, then what reputable self-pub companies do you reccomend? Thanks again for everyone's thoughts so far. As I said before, i have much to research and think about.

[Ubiquitous]

Well, you can do that with Smashwords. You can update your author bio, add links, or update the text. When you upload the update, SW runs it through their process and sends the updated version to their vendors.

One of the other considerations is collecting revenue from stores. If you list the book yourself with each store, they will each pay you according to their policies and schedules. If you go through SW, SW will collect the revenue and pay you according to their policies and schedules. Some authors prefer to cut out the middleman and deal directly with the store. Others prefer to only deal with one or two companies and let them collect the money for them.

I chose to list with SW, but I opted out of having SW list my book with Amazon. I uploaded my mobi copy there instead. There are "relationship" issues between these companies and I didn't want to wait for them to settle to get my book out there on Amazon.

[Ubiquitous]

I see your point, Lou. No argument here.

[Toni]

Holy good lord, you guys definitly gave me a lot to think about!!!! I am technologically stunted. So formatting will be an issue for me. I really have my work cut out for ne here. Thank you so much for all the advice.

[Liz]

I started off publishing on Amazon exclusively, and that was a process with a long learning curve that I think I finally managed to grasp (I'm not very computer savvy). Just recently I uploaded my books to Smashwords and after what I had already learned to publish my book on Amazon, the smashwords process was fairly straightforward. Of course, my only e-reader is a kindle, so I'm not sure if the other formats have formatting errors. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.

I will say that I've been very happy with the profit I'm able to make from my sales on Smashwords (by that I mean their own page, not the various distribution channels. To my knowledge, I haven't had any sales with the distribution channels yet, but my book just got sent to them a couple of days ago, so I wouldn't necessarily expect any.)

My royalties on Smashwords sales of my stories are much higher than the 35% Amazon limits me to because my stories are priced at $1.49 and $.99. The royalties on Smashwords vary depending on many factors, but on my $.99 story they've ranged from $.56-$.81 per sale, all much better than the $.35 I get per sale at Amazon.

[Toni]

Thank u Liz, Lou and Ubiquitious for all ur feedback. Liz- I m also not computer savvy. Not in the least and that mostly is what has held me back thus far. But I do appreciate your input on the matter. Thanks again to all of you for your insight and advice.

[Robert]

I realize the last comment in this thread is a few months old, but I feel I had something to contribute.

My choice to go to Indy publishing had a great many factors but the biggest one was a very blunt conversation I had with a friend of a friend who works with a smaller publisher of non-fiction books (But has had dealings with larger companies in the process like contract negotiations ect). What he said to me was very enlightening.

He very bluntly put it that more often than not Agents will not go with an unpublished author under any circumstances. Now with me I never even tried to get published until this year and I felt very strongly about the book I had written (which most writers should, but that is beside the point). He said that the few exceptions generally had some sort of "connection" to get them "in the door" so to speak. I have to admit, that explained some very questionable books I have read over the past few years.

This conversation came right after I submitted to over a dozen agents. I had done a ton of homework and one agent in particular seemed perfect. Everything the agent had publicly stated they liked was contained within my novel and I went out of my way to explain it in my submission letter to the agent.

Of course, I got the frustrating rejections. The rejections themselves didn't bother me necessarily, I had steadied myself for those. What bothered me was the form letter nature of them. I really felt that the agents never even read my submission as I got "not a good fit" and "This is a subjective business" (That last part caused the smart mouth in me to say to my self "So you admit you have terrible tastes?")

That agent I mentioned earlier, well the agent specifically stated a strong dislike to romance novels. On the agent's twitter feed their latest book deal after rejecting me was-you guessed it-a romance novel. A romance novel from an author that the agent had a long standing relationship with (However, the book flopped which gave me some solace LOL).

So I printed out the rejection and pinned it above my desk. Armed with the conversation I mentioned earlier, I began to study the pitfalls of self publishing and how to go about it. I hope one day to be able to send a response back to the agent "Hey, guess what you missed out on." Will I get the chance, who knows, but better to try than to never do.

[Toni]

Hahaha, Robert. I also sent out many queries to different agents. I even have a folder of a the rejects. But what bothered me about every single letter is that it was so generic, it felt like most of the agents nevet even bothered to read my letter. I can almost imagine an intern going through the emails, getting bored and just hitting the reject button, w/ out ever reading through the emails. Then there are the agents that nevet get back to you! That to me is ridiculously rude. If I took the time to read through their guidelines to send them what they wanted, 'cause let's face it, they all want something different. Some have wanted just a query. Others have asked for the first page, some want first 30 pages, or first 3 chapters, etc.... AND then they don't bother to even get back to me? That's just wrong! I did have one agent that was interested in my book. And after sending her the first part, of which she requested, about 2-3 months later, she sent me an email that she decided to get out of the business and all other agents in her firm didn't do those kind of progects. That was very frustrating. You would think that since she was leaving the biz, and had nothing to do w/ my book, that she could have at least reffered me to a different firm or agent. Maybe that would be a conflict of interest? I don't know. It's just been discouraging so far. It feels like unless you know someone it's just not going to happen.

[Robert]

Who knows, maybe the author was unaware or maybe the agent was. I know I've never heard that but I never looked into publishing romance either.

Then again, I do remember in my agent research that a ton of agents listing romance as one of their prime interests. Seems odd that they would do that if you can just go to the publisher directly.

[Toni]

I have to check out Samhain. I always thought I needed an agent first. Never thought to submit to smaller publishing houses.

[Robert]

I have heard some bad experences with small publishers. One friend of mine (who actually introduced me to Createspace) had not done his homework and turned out in some very, very fine print they said they only pay for the first 6 months of royalties. He got a lawyer and ended up getting his royalties but the lawyer cost counterbalanced the princiciple and he ended up making nothing. They also appeared to not know what they were doing, they printed a 220 page book and put a price tag of $25 on it. He turned around and went with createspace and actually made some money (However he has this thing about not promoting himself, I told him it's pretty necessary and he's too shy.)

Another person I know of went with a small publishing house, turned out when they said they took care of promotion, it was just e-mailing a few blogs and a blurb on their site. This one also was a print on demand so in other words the only sales he had was what he bought. Never even made it to Amazon or other sites. Also, they promised editing and he admitted he desperately needed an editor. They said they would provide it but when all was said and done the book was released with run on sentences, spelling errors, ect. needless to say he was mortified.

Not saying there aren't reputable smaller publishers, jut those and a few other stories makes me wary of them.

[Weston]

So far as agents go, I tried for years to get one. Ironically, after over a hundred rejections for multiple books, a few personalized rejections, and even a couple requests for more only to reject the project later, I finally "got lucky" with a new agent in the midst of a book deal I'd gotten myself. I wound up turning him down after the fact since things dragged on, and I just negotiated the deal myself. Honestly, in my experience I feel like agents really won't represent most new authors. They just see it as too risky. You have to get published first to build up your publishing portfolio.

When doing that, you do need to be careful with small and midsize publishers so as to avoid those that don't know what they are doing or are just taking advantage of new authors. However, there are good ones out there.

The content of this discussion intrigued me enough that I wrote up a more elaborate explanation of my take on my blog: http://www.kincadefiction.blogspot.com. I hope you don't mind that I quoted your post, Robert. :)

[Robert]

No problem, one day I'll drag you through the coals (just kidding LOL).

That is an interesting story though "Hey, I'll represent you now that you can potentially make money."

Although, After all the extensive edits I'm going the statement about releasing a book a week with no editing kind of stung LOL.

[Weston]

I know what you mean. I put a lot of time into correcting my books, but the truth is there are a few indie writers, a minority, that simply write it and think, 'Okay, it's done.' They don't take a second look at it and just expect it to be perfect. It's frustrating because it gives other indie authors a bad name.

[Rob]

Similarly to others on this thread, I’ve followed the self publishing route since this seemed to be the only option left open to me if I wanted to get my novel “out there”. I’d been rejected by about sixty agents, whose responses ranged from the standard “doesn’t fit with our list” through some very encouraging remarks to one request for the full MS. Close but still no cigar.

But maybe having to self publish by default isn’t such a bad thing after all. The royalties from a self published book are certainly much higher than from a traditionally published one, and the author has complete control over the finished product. Also, in terms of promoting the book, it seems that there is little advantage to being traditionally published nowadays as the author is expected to do as much promotional work as a self published one – unless you’re a big name of course.

What I have discovered, however, is that reviewers appear to have replaced agents as the new gatekeepers of the literary world. I seem to spend as much time researching which are the most appropriate reviewers to approach as I used to do with agents. Like agents, each reviewer has his/her own submission requirements, so it takes time putting together a personalised review request. Even then, the likelihood of actually getting a review is slim to say the least, and whether it’s a good one or not is another matter altogether.

This is by no means intended as a criticism of reviewers, the vast majority of whom do what they do purely for the love of books and reading, and usually for little or no financial reward. Nor am I suggesting that they have deliberately taken over the role of gatekeepers from literary agents. It is simply the way the world of self publishing seems to operate. Without an agent, it’s almost impossible to get your book traditionally published. Without some good reviews from known and respected reviewers, it’s much more difficult to find readers for your self published book.

[Robert]

Isn't a reputable e-book publisher just basically self publishing anyway?

[Weston]

I second what Lou said and completely understand Rob's point. There are many avenues to go. I started out self-published on both of my series and wound up with my series picked up by my publisher two years after the fact. Not all digital publishers are created equal though. Make sure you do your research before you submit to one. However, a good indie publisher can make a world of difference with your novel and save you a bunch of time marketing etc. As I mentioned in my blog post mentioned earlier, getting published by a good independent publisher is a way around the catch-22 of the current publishing industry's need for an agent to get published.

[Toni]

Ok guys here's another question since I'm new to this entire self pub thing and still haven't decided which way to go. But if you self pub do you only do it electonically or do you also put it in print? The cost wuld seem to go up exponentially if you do print books too

[Weston]

I use CreateSpace for print on demand. However, most books I sell are e-books. Some fans just really prefer to have a physical copy. I've even had a few ask about hardbacks, but I haven't had time to look into PoD options for hardbacks. Anyone know about that option or whether it's even available?

[Toni]

But its gotta cost a lot more to have print books self pub right?

[Weston]

Doesn't cost you anything aside from having the full cover done and formatting it for print. Print on demand is literally printed when it's purchased, and the company, CreateSpace in this situation, takes a percentage of the total book cost. You get a few bucks off the top, and CreateSpace even ships the book to the customer for you.

[Toni]

Thanks. Another thing to consider.

[Nick]

Lou wrote: "Self-publishing is like the gold rush."

In a way. But it's not riches but, irony of ironies, product!

And agree w you on Smashwords. Blows.