Twilight
discussion
Jacob didn't imprint on Bella, but?...
date
newest »
newest »
message 52:
by
~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~
(last edited Nov 25, 2013 06:14AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Rel8tivity wrote: When Jacob was defending himself to Bella for imprinting, he blames the love triangle completely on Bella's offspring. He said the attraction was to Bella's offspring, not Bella at all. Problem is, he was attracted to Bella long BEFORE she was pregnant. Nessie didn't exist yet, that means he's destined to imprint on Bella's offspring, regardless of who its father was.In order for the possibility of this preordained imprinting to work, and for Jacob to be a possible mate for Bella, then the possibility of imprinting on his own offspring must exist too. By the same reasoning, Sam would have been attracted to Emily's mom, and Quil would have fallen in love with Claire's mom, before the two girls were born. It might be weird, but that's the logic of the circumstances SM presented."
I'm gonna have to agree to disagree with this logic. it just makes no sense...
When Jacob was defending himself for imprinting, he was specifically talking about when Bella was pregnant & sick, & the strange pull that they both had to one another. But couldn't understand why. That feeling that Bella needed to be near him a vice versa. And once Nessie was born, that intense emotion to be near Jacob & he her, was gone. Once Jacob realized that he imprinted on Nessie, but only after he looked at her, that's when all the love he had for Bella before she became pregnant diminished, as it should, cos this is what happens once one has found their imprinted mate.
Remember, Bella loved Jacob, but before she got pregnant she never had an intense need to be near him. Not until she was pregnant with Nessie & once again around Jacob. So those feelings were not her own. And while Jacob was in love with Bella, he never experienced such an intense pull toward her til the pregnancy & once Nessie was born, he understood why.
So when u take into account the context in which Jacob was referring to when he was defending himself concerning the imprinting, & remember the circumstances of how imprinting can happen:(Sam & Leah & his mate), u understand that u can be deeply in love with someone & as strong as those feelings are, they will never surpass an imprinting IF it happens.
And how does a preordained imprinting mean that one could also imprint on their own offspring? Where is the link that shows this is possible? And if it were true, wouldn't this have not only been explained but also actually happened throughout the generations of all who have imprinted in Jacob's tribe/family tree?
Further more, if this is the only logic that can be had from SM, then Sam would have in fact been attracted to Emily's mom.. but he wasn't. He met & fell in love with Leah. they had a good relationship, but once he met his intended mate Emily, all bets were off.
Its an interesting thought.. Imprinting on ur own Offspring. Albeit a little sick, but when u try to put all the pieces together, it just doesn't quite fit.
ETA:
I only say that last bit, cos we are not shown/given any definitive proof throughout the series, to raise the thought that it could be possible for one to imprint on their own offspring. All we are shown & told about imprinting is that it can happen at any time in a wolf's life. That if that wolf is in love or in a relationship with another, that once he's found his imprinted mate, that he will most certainly leave whoever he is with at the time. Cos there is just nothing that trumps the emotions that come with imprinting. And that it is a definite throughout life & the bond only gets stronger as time passes.
There is nothing shown or even alluded to, that a wolf can in fact imprint on his own offspring.
Italia8989 wrote: First of all, Bella would never choose Jacob. That saying, Jacob only liked Bella in a lustful way. When he imprinted those feelings were gone because he was dedicated to someone else and realized the way he felt for Bella was not stemmed out of love/protectiveness at all. He was just being a regular teenage boy. That saying, if Bella did choose him (though it would never happen) yes, he could imprint on someone else. Even if you are with someone, according to Meyer's werewolves, you are not meant to be with someone unless you imprint on them first. ."Well then the same would have to be said regarding Sam & Leah as well. Even though we are told that Sam cared deeply for Leah. They were in a long term relationship. One that wasn't stemmed or based on lust.
And a lot of the things that Jacob did for & concerning Bella, through motivation & action, was not the actions of a "Teenage boy lusting" after someone. If that's all it was, he would not have had the desire to nor done half the stuff he did.
Putting it simply, they can still have deep loving emotions for someone they are not imprinted on. Its just that the imprinting goes beyond just any emotional feeling. It surpasses everything on a deep elemental level. Doesn't mean that the feelings they had for the person they were with weren't real or grounded in emotion beyond lust, it just means it could never be stronger than an imprinting & what that represents.
Rel8tivity wrote: "But that's not what SM is presenting here, and it doesn't take into account the possibility that Jacob would have been Bella's mate. And that was one thing that SM wanted to present, that Jacob was a very real alternative to Edward.When Jacob was defending himself to Bella for imprinting, he blames the love triangle completely on Bella's offspring. He said the attraction was to Bella's offspring, not Bella at all. Problem is, he was attracted to Bella long BEFORE she was pregnant. Nessie didn't exist yet, that means he's destined to imprint on Bella's offspring, regardless of who its father was.
In order for the possibility of this preordained imprinting to work, and for Jacob to be a possible mate for Bella, then the possibility of imprinting on his own offspring must exist too. By the same reasoning, Sam would have been attracted to Emily's mom, and Quil would have fallen in love with Claire's mom, before the two girls were born. It might be weird, but that's the logic of the circumstances SM presented.
I didn't get the impression that Jacob was a "very real alternative" to Edward as Bella's mate. "Very real alternative" is in quotes because it always seemed quite clear to me that Bella would choose Edward over Jacob.
Attraction and imprinting are not the same thing though. Sam was attracted to Leah before he met and imprinted on Emily. Quil was attracted to Bella before he imprinted too. Jacob was attracted to that girl that he met in Breaking Dawn. The actual imprinting attraction to Bella that you are alluding to didn't actually begin until AFTER Bella became pregnant with Renesme. You seem to be insinuating that Jacob would have imprinted on any child that Bella had regardless of who the father was and I disagree with that. That is not how imprinting is presented and explained in the books. What if she'd married Mike and had a child? Would he have imprinted on that child? The answer is no because that child would not have been Renesme, the one that he was destined to imprint on. Physical attraction and the capacity to love isn't limited or restricted to just one person specific person, however, the imprinting process is.
~*~Princess Nhya~*~ wrote: "Rel8tivity wrote: When Jacob was defending himself to Bella for imprinting, he blames the love triangle completely on Bella's offspring. He said the attraction was to Bella's offspring, not Bella a..."There's no link, I was simply taking what I had read, and extrapolating to the logical conclusion. And the way I had read it, Jacob was explaining their whole relationship on the future imprint, not just a portion of it. I guess it wasn't that clear to me. I suppose if you look at it as only part of their relationship, it could work that way.
Still, it doesn't matter to me either way. I never liked the imprinting, and I thought that it was far too contrived of a plot device to do the story justice. And no matter how much SM insisted that it was a pure and platonic relationship, her characterization didn't show that. Platonic, to me, implies that either of the players can walk away at any time. Yet neither Quil nor Jacob do that. Quil says he doesn't even think of other girls. Jacob gives Renesmee a promise bracelet. That implies staking a claim. That doesn't show a completely platonic relationship to me. Furthermore, remember when Edward makes that unholy bargain with Jacob? He immediately begins fantasizing about sex with Bella. Jacob is still a hormonal male, so it's not realistic that those thoughts turn off. So you have two older males, who know that the relationship can become sexual (through the wolf link they know exactly what Jared, Sam and Paul have been up to), and are given the care of two children. It's just too unsavory to accept as pure.
Rel8tivity wrote: Still, it doesn't matter to me either way. I never liked the imprinting, and I thought that it was far too contrived of a plot device to do the story justice. And no matter how much SM insisted that it was a pure and platonic relationship, her characterization didn't show that. Platonic, to me, implies that either of the players can walk away at any time. Yet neither Quil nor Jacob do that. Quil says he doesn't even think of other girls. Jacob gives Renesmee a promise bracelet. That implies staking a claim. That doesn't show a completely platonic relationship to me. Furthermore, remember when Edward makes that unholy bargain with Jacob? He immediately begins fantasizing about sex with Bella. Jacob is still a hormonal male, so it's not realistic that those thoughts turn off. So you have two older males, who know that the relationship can become sexual (through the wolf link they know exactly what Jared, Sam and Paul have been up to), and are given the care of two children. It's just too unsavory to accept as pure. "
I get ur point about the whole imprinting thing. I see where ur coming from. SM could have been more clear on certain things. That is a fact.
But the bargain that Edward mentioned to Jacob, remember, Jacob hadn't imprinted on Nessie yet. He doesn't imprint on Nessie til after she's born. So while he was experiencing more intense emotion, & Edward brings that proposition to him, of course his mind was gonna go there. & remember that's not the 1st time that Jacob openly lusted after Bella in front of Edward. Remember the scene in the mountains in book 3? When Bella was freezing?
So that convo with he & Edward concerning Bella was still based on Jacob's feelings toward Bella Physically & emotionally. But all of those feelings cease the moment he imprints on Nessie.
Now there is nothing platonic about imprinting. I agree. Cos imprinting goes beyond anything platonic, loving, lust, anything. That's what makes it so powerful. Nothing that u may have felt for another outside of imprinting could surpass it. But if someone does imprint on another that is not of age yet, the caring that the imprinter feels won't allow them to do anything or crave anything beyond the imprintee well being. So the imprinting only allows them to feel/do/be what they need to be at whatever point their imprintee's life is at. Child, preteen, teenager, adult.
Imprinting keeps them connected spiritually. IDK though
Hi guys! Sorry to bother, this is slightly irrelevant but it's for a good cause! I'm trying to raise some money for a charity called Wishing on a Star. Which is a charity that grants wishes to sick children! This is a charity very close to my heart as my 11 year old cousin recently died of a heart defect, and didn't have a chance to get to go to DisneyWorld which is what he really wanted.
I want other children to be able to have this opportunity, and I'm a student so I'm pretty poor! I think raising money even if it's just a little is a good start! Thanks so much.
All you have to do is click the ad on my blog! It's that simple!
http://originalbooker.blogspot.co.uk/
I'm sorry about your cousin: (
I don't think Bella and Jacob would have ever interacted if it weren't for Edward. Think about it the few times they did interact in Twilight was because of Edward. The only reason she talked to him on first beach was to get info about the Cullens, because of Edward. When Billy came over with him he sent Jacob to the car so they didn't speak then. Also Billy bribed Jake to go to her prom to tell her to stay away from Edward. She didn't really like being in Forks so I doubt she would have actually staid till she graduated high school. Between Twilight and New Moon she never really goes to La Push. In fact her only reason for going is to get Jacob to fix a motorcycle for her so she can see Edward. Also she only seems to like Jake after he starts becoming a shifter because that's the first time she ever mentions him being attractive to her.
Plus she only hangs out with him because he distracts her from her pain left by Edward. If there were no pain why would she go to hang out with him. Especially since everyone at her school seems to like and without Edward she would have been more involved with her friends. Also Jacob is a year younger than here and goes to a school on the Reservation so they wouldn't really see each other or hang out at all.
The only connection they would have is Billy and Charlie but Bella hates doing everything that they love doing so she'd use every excuse under the sun to stay away from the duo. Besides even if she did stay she would have only been there for what a year and a half before going to college somewhere far away and never looking back, because she hates Forks. So if Edward didn't exist Jacob still wouldn't have ended up with Bella.
On another note if Bella had chosen him Renesmee wouldn't be born thus his imprint would have never existed, which makes no sense because everyone has a better half. So my prediction would be that he would eventually imprint on someone else who has the same traits as she did; a kind, intelligent, fun-loving, competitive, affectionate, brave, headstrong, extrovert.
If you think about it Renesmee and Bella have opposite personalities. Bella wants to keep everyone out but Nessie loves letting people in. Nessie loves having fun and being girly while Bella hates being girly and without Edward is very boring. Bella, as a human, is really insecure but Ness is really confident. Human Bella is weak and always holds people back, or tries to. Ness is strong and has faith in the people around her.
It's those differences that prevents Jacob from imprinting on Bella. However he's just a teenager who's had a crush on this one girl for years of course he's going to try to stop at nothing to be with her. Unfortunately once he grows up more he would have realized it was really just infatuation and lust mixed with a strong platonic bond and leave her. I could see them still being friends but no more than that.
Ty wrote: "I don't think Bella and Jacob would have ever interacted if it weren't for Edward. Think about it the few times they did interact in Twilight was because of Edward. The only reason she talked to hi..."You're quite right. If not for Edward, Jacob never would have been involved with Bella. She'd long since put her foot down against going fishing, which was how Bella originally got thrown together with Jacob and his sisters. But more than that, if Edward never was involved, Bella would have been killed by Tyler's van, and Jacob never would have had a chance with her.
Check out this fic: Wish Granted by KzintiKiller. It illustrates this point beautifully.
Rel8tivity wrote: "Ty wrote: "I don't think Bella and Jacob would have ever interacted if it weren't for Edward. Think about it the few times they did interact in Twilight was because of Edward. The only reason she t..."I don't think she would have got hit by the van if Edward wasn't around because the reason she was standing in the parking lot and not in her car already was because she was staring at Edward and the Cullen's. Had he not been there she would have been either pulling out of the parking lot or at least in her car by the time Tyler's van would have hit.
The fact of the matter is that all of her life threatening moment wouldn't have occurred if Bella wasn't obsessed with Edward. She would have just gone about her business in antisocial ignorance.
On other topics I'm pretty sure she would at least at some point talked to Jacob or at least had too because Billy did come over without hidden agendas before, life just would have continued back to normality she would have had to interact with Charlie's friends eventually. They probably wouldn't have been together due to her antisocial nature, but if they did I would assume it would happen like way in the furture with Bella visiting her dad and her finally growing out of her shell to talk people outside of her family and age wouldn't be such an obsessive thing, but extremely unlikely.
Bella without Edward is the world's most boring unnecessary character. Bella without Jacob is just as boring and unnecessary. But I'm not quite sure Jacob would of imprinted on someone else because I'm not sure he wasn't supposed to imprint on Bella due to her natural shield any imprinting from any of the wolves would have been impossible, at least from my point of view. Without Renesmee he would have found someone he loved by choice and not something forcing him which I think he would have preferred. His personality dictates that he doesn't like having his choices made for him.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who realized how boring Bella is. If I didn't know any better I'd say SM made Jacob so huge in NM cause a book with Bella alone would have sucked. Actually, even though I know the real reason she gave him a bigger role, a part of me does believe that theory.
Ty wrote: "I'm glad I'm not the only person who realized how boring Bella is. If I didn't know any better I'd say SM made Jacob so huge in NM cause a book with Bella alone would have sucked. Actually, even th..."I don't think SM got that when you make a character as boring as Bella, you're supposed to make a plot in which they either become less boring or do something significant to catch our interest. But instead she centered her story around other characters to make her main character interesting. She failed to develop her main character, if SM had simply developed Bella as character, she might had made a series worth while and a character whose decisions I respected. But instead we got a main character who's irrelevant in their own series.
@Oliva I think SM has a thing for controlling men with abusive tendencies. Has anyone else noticed that both Jacob and Edward are controlling and have emotional, verbally, mentally, ands socially abused Bella at some point in the books. Yet when she writes the part it's Romanization so the reader views it as sweet or endearing.
@Olivia I think the series as a whole had a lot of potential. If it didn't I wouldn't be discussing it, but rather would have an indifferent attitude towards it. As said before by many the series features abusive males (some to way less degrees than others) and a boring protagonist. These things would be perfectly fine if she had done something with it other than sugar coat it with romance. These show flaws in her characters which perfectly fine because no one cares about the perfect character, but she never addresses the flaws. She never let's her characters grow and change to where the flaws become something changeable, like Bella taking time away from both Edward and Jacob to become a person. Of course most of this is impossible because the entire series takes place in a 2-3 year span which is not enough time for any of her characters to mature. So basically I'm saying that this series could have been good had she developed her characters better and focused her story a little more on that rather than an obsessive romance that doesn't develop any farther than that.
@KarmaSc0rpi0n you know now that you mention timelines I realize Bella was only in Forks for a year and eight months before becoming a vampire.January 17, 2005 Bella goes to Forks.
September 13, 2005, Bella turns 18
September 16, 2005 Edward leaves
March 21,2006 Edward, Bella, and Alice fly back to Forks
August 13, 2006 Bella and Edward get married
September 10, 2006 Edward bites Bella/ Nessie is born.
September 13, 2006, Bella turns 19
So before Edward left they dated for six months. He was gone for six months. Then they started dating again for six months before getting married. So Bella was in Forks for a year and six months. She and Edward were only together for a year. Also she only spent two months with Jacob while Edward was gone.
Ty wrote: "@KarmaSc0rpi0n you know now that you mention timelines I realize Bella was only in Forks for a year and eight months before becoming a vampire.January 17, 2005 Bella goes to Forks.
September 13,..."
So SM just crammed all she could in the shortest amount of time possible instead of developing a full plot that should have spanned years in time, at least for me to take anything seriously in the book. But I guess that's why it's a teen romance because a year at that age seems like forever when in reality it's like the shortest time ever.
Renae wrote: "I am not so sure Reneesme will choose Jacob. I would believe that it could be possible that she have another soul mate although Jacob saw Reneesme as his. I believe that Meyers does not indicate th..."I agree with you. I also considered Bella's mental shield being apart of that somehow- her mental shield could have possibly blocked Jacob from being able to imprint on her. Just my deep thoughts. Oh and on the whole Renesmee thing. Everyone assumes she's just going to be with Jacob but she can simply only want him as her best friend and choose someone else....he'd have to be okay with that too. I deem it unfair. I've always wondered if it was possible for Jacob to fall in love with someone else if Renesmee told him he could or if she kept him as her friend.
I know this sounds kind of gross, but if Bella ad ended up with Jacob, would he have imprinted on their child? And if not, and Bella had ended up with another human, would he have imprinted on their Bella and the other human's baby? It does seem kind of weird because Jacob never felt an attraction (not necessarily romantic) to Edward, and Renesmee is part of both of them, not only Bella. So did it have to be a child of Bella or of both?
Martina wrote: "I know this sounds kind of gross, but if Bella ad ended up with Jacob, would he have imprinted on their child? And if not, and Bella had ended up with another human, would he have imprinted on thei..."In all honesty I don't think so. Imprinting is there literally for only breeding purposes (at least that's how SM presnted it) and the imprint seemed to really want Bella's genes to create a better wolf, so if they had a child together then that need would have been fulfilled and thus no imprint needed. According to Jacob's explaination, he should have felt a pull to Bella and Edward if it was all about Renesemee (which obviously wasn't the case) meaning it was Bella's gentics the imprint wanted the most. Also inbreeding isn't really conductive in making a stronger anything genetics wise, so I doubt it would occur for that reason alone.
Although I had a theory, what if the imprint was originally on Bella, but her mental shield blocked and when she died and became a vampire (and thus infertile) it shifted to the closest viable candidate that had her genetics, Renesemee. Because as this thing has shown in the past it really only wants a fertile woman with a specific set of genes. I bet if Leah wasn't barren Sam would have imprinted on her because it's clear that that she has the superior set of genes between her and Emily.
Olivia wrote: "KarmaSc0rpi0n wrote: "Martina wrote: "I know this sounds kind of gross, but if Bella ad ended up with Jacob, would he have imprinted on their child? And if not, and Bella had ended up with another ..."I'd assume he'd still imprint on Renesemee because if she did survive the birth there's no way her reproductive organs would have survived unscathed, she more than likely would be barren after the birth, but assuming all of Bella survives then no I don't think he'd imprint on Renesemee, I think he'd still be hopelessly in love with Bella, but in a better position to move on because he'd have to and not in the artificial way imprinting did, he'd actually have the opportunity to be happy on his own terms and thus better because it'll stick. Imprinting will technically stick, but in the Stepford Wives sense where he's not himself (which he wasn't at the end of the book).
I know that this thread is kind of old but I came across it when I was trying to see how people felt about the whole imprinting thing. Let me share some of my honest thoughts.1) Whether Stephanie Meyer intended for the idea of Jacob imprinting on Renesme to be a thing when she started writing the books does not change the disappointment I felt and also the rushed manner in how I feel it was done. It was disappointing for me because the love triangle is what drew me to the saga in the first place and to see it all end up with Jacob imprinting on Renesme felt like Meyer throwing his character a bone ( no pun intended). I don't believe it is in Meyer's nature to end a story with a less than happy ending and I see this in the final battle with the Volturi not actually being real. Any author would have just let the chips falls where they may. I am not criticizing Meyer for this approach but I think the story could have gone a whole lot deeper if done differently. I felt that the Jacob and Renesme thing was Stephanie just making sure Jacob got a happy ending.
2) So the big question, Did Jacob and Bella truly love each other or was it just because of Renesme?
I believe that Jacob and Bella loved each other but that Jacob's refusal to let go of Bella stemmed because of Renesme. In other words... I think that Renesme was the reason why Jacob was willing to fight for Bella even after she rejected and hurt him. I think that imprinting nicely explains the attachment that Jacob had for Bella because of Renesme but still for me does not explain the physical attraction that he had earlier on before Bella ruled him out as a possibility. Let's not forget that Jacob wanted to get rid of the baby if it meant saving Bella. If their love was purely based on Renesme he would have cared less about Bella and insisted on trying to save the baby. Jacob stopped loving Bella after she got pregnant with Renesme and I think I could argue that he didn't stop caring for Bella until he imprinted. I look at the imprint as Jacob being released from his love triangle with Bella and Edward.
Some thoughts...
I think that it would be like Sam and Emily, bit with jacob and a new girl. He would eventually leave Bella just like Sam.
BonnieSkywalker wrote: "If Bella chose Jacob and if they were together, does that mean after a while Jacob could have imprinted on someone else? I don't understand this part."Yeah! That is so confusing, I understand. Since I am one of the people that always think too deep into books, I totally get you! It's frustrating! But no, without Edward, Jacob would never imprint since 'Nessie' would never exist.
Imprinting is a very flawed system.VERY FLAWED.
But hey if you want to be a lazy writer and make sure your characters are FATED to get together, you will think of any method.
I know that this is an old post but I just finished to re reand the books and I want to write something.After reading breaking dawn I just had the impression that it was all for jacob's fate.
If Bella never got to Forks, she would have never met Edward. Without them falling in love for each other ther would have never been Renesmee.
Now, without Renesmee, Jacob would fall in love with someone else as a normal man, but he would never imprint on anybody.
It is deep. Bella and Edward storyline has a reason outside itself, it has improved Jacob's existence after all.. so beautiful..
I think that imprinting is also like soul mates, but it is called differently here than in other werewolf books. Jacob and Bella did not work out because the connection was not instantly and for the imprinting to work it had to be at first sight not later.
Daan wrote: "Imprinting is a very flawed system.VERY FLAWED.
But hey if you want to be a lazy writer and make sure your characters are FATED to get together, you will think of any method."
Yes I have so many questions. What if both are on opposite sides of the world? Did Jacob imprint on an egg? If so, considering the fact that sex is not determined until fertilisation, can imprinting be platonic (assuming Jacob is straight)? If Jacob did imprint on an egg, what are the chances that that was the egg to be fertilised (like 1/40000)? What if he and Bella were together and happened to fertilise that egg? ?
????
What are the chances that Jacob would imprint on an egg of someone he has known for his whole life?
Oh well I read the books when the movie came out and it's plagued me ever since
Yes I have so many questions. What if both are on opposite sides of the world? Did Jacob imprint on an egg? If so, considering the fact that sex is not determined until fertilisation, can imprinting be platonic (assuming Jacob is straight)? If Jacob did imprint on an egg, what are the chances that that was the egg to be fertilised (like 1/40000)? What if he and Bella were together and happened to fertilise that egg? ?????
What are the chances that Jacob would imprint on an egg of someone he has known for his whole life?
Oh well I read the books when the movie came out and it's plagued me ever since
That are GOOD questions, GOOD questions ... don't expect to get an answer. There are other plot holes big enough to drive a dump truck through to fix first.
So what if Jacob and Bella had sex and had a baby, would he imprint on his own child? And no longer be attracted to Bella?
The only reason Bella and Jacob ever had a "connection" was because Jacob was meant to imprint on Renessemee.Although you can imprint on more than one person like Sam with Lea and Emily it's rare.And that wasn't the case with Bella and Jacob
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
But that's not what SM is presenting here, and it doesn't take into account the possibility that Jacob would have been Bella's mate. And that was one thing that SM wanted to present, that Jacob was a very real alternative to Edward.
When Jacob was defending himself to Bella for imprinting, he blames the love triangle completely on Bella's offspring. He said the attraction was to Bella's offspring, not Bella at all. Problem is, he was attracted to Bella long BEFORE she was pregnant. Nessie didn't exist yet, that means he's destined to imprint on Bella's offspring, regardless of who its father was.
In order for the possibility of this preordained imprinting to work, and for Jacob to be a possible mate for Bella, then the possibility of imprinting on his own offspring must exist too. By the same reasoning, Sam would have been attracted to Emily's mom, and Quil would have fallen in love with Claire's mom, before the two girls were born. It might be weird, but that's the logic of the circumstances SM presented.