A Thousand Splendid Suns
discussion
Was Rasheed all bad?
Rasheed is an animal and a sorry excuse for a man! I don't believe Islam condones I'll treatment of women but some how men like him get away with it with their ignorance and 'beliefs' that men are superior to justify there animal like ways.I was repulsed by him while reading, any man who feels it's OK to beat women is in no shape or form areal man......Tariq was!
I hate rasheed down to bits. At one point, I remember, I couldn't go on with the book because of fear(The last few chapters of part 3). I still am in fear when I think about those chapters.I'm waiting for the time to heal so that I can read this book again and again. And I vote for 'all bad'.
Rethinking, I shouldn't have said 'all bad'. It's the situation in which he grew up which made him so. So, the situation is to be blamed.
All the 'times' he was good, it was for personal intrest. Taking the situation of being good to Mariam, Being good to laila, being best to Zalmai...All he do is for him and himself only. But that is just a forgivable sin. Being cruel to women is not personally his fault. Had he been in Tariq's family situation, or Laila's, he might have done good.(Independent of peer influence, I'm talking). The society should be blamed.The more serious question should be, what in the society might have made him so bad, and for the answer, we should research into the make up and funtioning of Afghan society, or generally, the muslim societies.
I agree with you, but these concepts that grew on his mind made him to be this "Monster", and now this is what he is a bad person, the evil side of the story.these stereotypes that had been embedded in his mind since his childhood, was embedded in let's say Hakim (Laila's dad) for instant too, since he was in that society too, but you don't see Hakim doing what Rasheed is doing, so that doesn't absolve him what he did.
Salam wrote: "I agree with you, but these concepts that grew on his mind made him to be this "Monster", and now this is what he is a bad person, the evil side of the story.these stereotypes that had been embe..."
The author doesn't say this, but may be Hakim grew up in a better family with better influences.
Salam wrote: "I agree with you, but these concepts that grew on his mind made him to be this "Monster", and now this is what he is a bad person, the evil side of the story.these stereotypes that had been embe..."
As he is to Laila.
Family, yes perhaps, but concepts and ideas like "Sons are valuable, daughters aren't"/ "your wife is your maid, do whatever you want with her, and she isn't worthy of your respect"/ "It okay, even necessary to hit your wife/s" Are not things that can be taught in a household, they're how the whole society thinks.
This thought process is so alien to me I'd live to know why this community have these ideas or ways of life? A lot of Asian community also have these views from books I've read such as 'disgraced' I would love for the men to be educated better in this touchy area.
I think you will find this is a cultural thing depended on where the family is from. I am Muslim and its is completely against our religion to beat your wife or be sexist against her. Unfortunately it seems more and more men think this is the way. Its completely disgusting.
Humm probably you could be right Sarah, I agree it is disgusting!!! I just finished reading another book where a female was beaten by her husband who thought it was OK to do so and she was African American I guess I just depends on culture and up bringing with some men
In my experience in the Asian community many people accept it or pretend it's not happening. Hopefully the younger generations will change all that but more should be said in the mosques about it. I am not Asian but my community is and women aren't even allowed to pray in the mosques here. Totally against the teachings of Islam. Yet many of the older women (who came from abroad) think they are not supposed to go to the mosque anyway. The more educated women get in their religion the better. Then they will know how many rights they do have.
Really women can not? Where are you in the world Sarah?
I'm in the Northwest of England Kelly. What about you?
Rasheed is a foil in the story used to show the challenges that many women in Afghanistan face on a daily basis. Whether he has goodness in him is irrelevant to the story. He is merely a literary device used to show the impact that general lack of education and unspeakable hardships have on peoples lives. Women and their children are almost always the most victimized in such societies. Making Rasheed a villain allows Hosseini's heroines to rise up agains an oppressive system that often breeds violence and injustice due to ignorance.
Elisabeth wrote: "Rasheed is a foil in the story used to show the challenges that many women in Afghanistan face on a daily basis. Whether he has goodness in him is irrelevant to the story. He is merely a literary d..."I agree to his being a literary device. However, along with "general lack of education and unspeakable hardships" the cultural sanction of multiple wives and the husband's right to physically punish his wives, and the inability for a woman to live on her own,reinforce the ability of a mediocre man to become a true villain.
@ Sarah I'm in London, wow I am surprised to learn about this taking place in England!
oh! I literally used to drive all the way to London just so I could pray in regents park mosque. ridiculous I know.
Sarah wrote: "oh! I literally used to drive all the way to London just so I could pray in regents park mosque. ridiculous I know."This is crazy and a shame to hear I feel so upset when I hear these in just actions towards women , I'm just about to read .'reading Lolita in Tehran' a book about 7 women living in Iran I wonder if I'll come across more Rasheed type characters and injustice towards women in the book?.....
Hmm not read that. It angers me that Islam have women their rights and the men are now taking their rights away. Not all men of course. Saying that it angers me even more that people think cultural things like 'honour killings' are to do with Islam. Grrrr. and don't get me started on the fact that people seem to think us normal Muslims should be able to stop these (so called) 'Muslim' terrorists or have to apologise for them.
I don't think Rasheed's 'all-bad'. Sure, he's sexist and all, but I do believe he's not all bad. When you get to know the character at first, when Rasheed and Mariam get married at the beginning, before her multiple miscarriages, rasheed actually seems like a really caring and responsible husband. If I were to judge Rasheed by his behaviour all through the book, I would definitely disagree about him being the worst person ever. Truth is, he has both good and bad sides. It was just his bad side that was exposed more than his good side.
I'm very pro 'women's rights' in fact when I think about it I'm pro any kind of human right, and hate to see certain groups of society repressed or held down, but women's rights are obviously dear to my heart being a girl. Islam is sooooooo complex, I'm no where near qualified to pass judgement but agree about pressure to apologise for the radicals. I have the lolita book lined up to read , if you have not heard of it take a look on Amazon or Good reads.
Juthi wrote: "I don't think Rasheed's 'all-bad'. Sure, he's sexist and all, but I do believe he's not all bad. When you get to know the character at first, when Rasheed and Mariam get married at the beginning, b..."I think for me why he is all bad is because not only is he an animal with his beatings and behaviour he is a sorry excuse for a husband!!! Not just a sorry excuse for a man, as a married women myself when you take your vows a few miscarriages should not change your commitment to a women. If anything it should bring you closer, I've not experienced this eg miscarriage but I am a firm believer in 'in sickness and in health'
Me too Kelly. I have heard about it but to be honest didn't fancy it. I got to a point where it was seriously depressing me reading about the awful things happening to women. After reading 'price of honour: Muslim women lift the veil of silence in the Islamic world' it put me off. However I can recommend 'Iran Awakening' though. I would say that's worth a read.
His commitment moved from Mariam to another women the root cause was not bearing a son so he can pass on his sexist and foul ways! He disgusts me this is NOT what marriage is about you're a team
Sarah wrote: "Me too Kelly. I have heard about it but to be honest didn't fancy it. I got to a point where it was seriously depressing me reading about the awful jthings happening to women. After reading 'price o..."Thanks I will check out some of these books it is hard to take in some things but I like to know what/why somethings happen in some cultures or parts of the world.
Me too I find it fascinating.
Sheryl wrote: "I think Rasheed is supposed to be one of those characters you "love to hate". Did anyone feel bad when [spoiler alert!] he came to such a brutal and vicious end? I, for one, did not."I actually agree with you. When he came to an end I was celebrating because it was the end to his cruel raid.
Generally speaking, I don't believe any person to be all bad but I tend to think that Rasheed was all bad because that is the image the author has portrayed.Hosseini writes only about the negative side of Rasheed. We would never know if he had positive side.That said, I don't support any of his actions.Him being a product of such a conservative society does justify his actions to an extent.However there were men in the same locality whose ideas were radically different. So he would always remain the bad guy for me because that is what the author wants us to consider him as.
Well, if the women's gossip about him is to be believed, his son died because of his own neglect. And no matter what stereotypes you were born with, there is no excuse for hurting and torturing others. Maybe he wasn't all bad, but I didn't feel remotely sympathetic when he died.
What _is_ "All bad"? When we analyze characters from a culturally and chronologically different era, we need to decide on which moral yardstick we are using to evaluate characters/actions. In that regard, its a very difficult question to answer, according to me. "All bad" also slams in our face a hard choice between an absolute stance we want to take versus a moderate one we don't want to.
After thinking about this more (details of the train of thought omitted), I feel I have no choice but to agree that he was indeed All bad, not just for the way he treated Mariam and Laila, but also Aziza. Tariq and Laila's dad were also men, but had respect and gratitude towards women; something whose even a morsel wasn't visible in Rasheed's character.
Rasheed was the devil incarnate. First off, no mention was made in the book about Rasheed's upbringing. Therefore, we don't really know what caused him to become this way. But it does mention that he may have been drunk while his first son drowned, and there is the fact that he not only beat Miriam and Laila, but his first wife as well. He also starved Laila and her baby girl for days when they tried to escape the first time, and then he proceeded to beat Miriam in the shed.
Any shred of him being a decent human being should have been obliterated when the book shows that he paid some hotel door man to tell Laila that her true love died. If that didn't happen then Laila wouldn't have been pulled towards marrying Rasheed.
Rasheed isn't "all that bad". He's more than that. He's one of those people we hope to God that we'll never, ever meet. We wouldn't wish him on our worst enemies.
In the beginning, he wasn't all "bad", although he married a 15 year old girl with force. Now I'm talking about his personality in the beginning of the book. Later on, it developed a monster in him, and he became an asshole. The author is so good to describe people in his books, especially how he descriped Rasheed. It developed hatred in my heart towards him, and I could imagine in my mind how he looked like. He was definetaly a bad man who didn't respect women at all, but not in the beginning of the book.
Not a bad guy. but a too rigid one. He could have molded himself.
I wonder if the readers (who I noticed tended to be male, not surprisingly) in this discussion who had some sympathy for Rasheed would feel the same way if he had been abusing men in the book instead of women. Unfortunately, I think they would condemn him more harshly than they do for his absolutely horrendous treatment of his wives.
The man is so calculative, lies to get his things done, cheats on the wife, thinks he can have his ways by beating up the women and children... and if this is not bad, is this good? it doesn't even come somewhere in between, the One's we call grey. If you think this isn't bad, sorry, you are in a way inciting others to be this GOOD!!!
The only pity I had for Rasheed was the death of his young son, but if it had been a girl, would he have cared considering he only valued sons?
I didn't expect to get so many responses when I started this discussion, so a big thank you to everyone for that :)I always believed that the culture in which people grew up in influenced their behaviour, but as someone said, Laila's father grew up in the same culture yet he was the most liberal, loving father one can get.In Afganistan, and even in neighboring countries like Pakistan and India( where I'm from) people like Rasheed are commonplace. So the reason can't be entirely blamed on culture.
After reading all the comments, I can safely say that I changed my mind and I believe Rasheed is 'all bad'.
Akankshita wrote: "I didn't expect to get so many responses when I started this discussion, so a big thank you to everyone for that :)I always believed that the culture in which people grew up in influenced thei..."
Akankshita wrote: "I didn't expect to get so many responses when I started this discussion, so a big thank you to everyone for that :)
I always believed that the culture in which people grew up in influenced thei..."
Akankshita wrote: "I didn't expect to get so many responses when I started this discussion, so a big thank you to everyone for that :)
I always believed that the culture in which people grew up in influenced thei..."
Akankshita wrote: "I didn't expect to get so many responses when I started this discussion, so a big thank you to everyone for that :)
I always believed that the culture in which people grew up in influenced thei..."
Thank you for starting the discussion. It raised some interesting questions about good and bad. If there was any "good" in Rasheed, I think it was most evident in his relationship with his son. But he was still a terrible person regardless of that.
I dont think he was he made a good word choice most of the time and kept most things to himself and he let tariqs daughter live which is a bonus other than that he is crappy person.
I wish these two ladies killed him earlier. 100% ALL BAD. No compassion, zero tolerance. I would gladly kill him myself. I don't care how he has been raised, at the moment it was a grown adult. Sick bastard.
That made my day ^_^ loooolThanks!!! (I would still kill Rasheed)
Entirely, harsh conditions and upbringing is still no excuse to abjse, control and dehumanise women and reject female daughters. Vile character.
All I felt for him was pure rage! He is a hypocrite, choosing rules of religion like wearing a burqa that fitted his interests. Manipulating situations to fulfil his lust like that he did when he wanted to marry Laila. And even if he grew up in an environment which gave men all the power, how could he not feel anything when he beat up his wives and did inhumane things to them? That's not justified by saying anything related to the environment he grew up. Would he behave the same with his mother?
Rasheed's character is a universal one, i.e. it is not a matter of Afghan society. Wherever we go or live we coincide such characters simply because of the bad viewpoint against women in the whole world.
Yes he was 'all bad'. I dont think we really need to ponder about that. Yes he lost his son at a very young age and i consider it really unfortunate but so what? You lost your son but it does not mean that you disrespect women and beat the hell out of them every day or take their freedom from them and try to kill them or you differenciate between a daughter and a son. I found rasheed's character as a person who considers himself really miserable and superior at the same time and let out his anger and cruelity on the weaker party. He was 'feudal lord' who had a need to dominate a submissive or weaker person and use her as his pet.
Citra wrote: "Well, I can see it from his point of view. His wives did steal and tried to runaway, but then again, who wouldn't want to runaway from that kind of husband?Yes, he was all bad."
I understand where your coming from with this thought process, he was a bad guy true, but he offer a house, food, comfort, rather than just living on the street to suffer he offered these women comfort. And a huge part of his behavior is based off of his surroundings, his parents were probably that way, they live in a location where they're uneducated, they dont know how to respect women, they're nothing but people who are made to breed children and clean, in this society during this time that was the norm, Laila's father was completely different, he was the outcast within that society not Rasheed.
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I don't think that he did this out of being 5% good. Laila was there to 1. Relive himself on (sexually) 2. Provide him a son. Mariam was there to smack around.
Tala wrote: “he is most probably like every other man in the world”
Wow...
Amir wrote: “To cut it short, I just like to ask everyone not to judge people easily. You cannot imagine what could become of you if you were in a situation such as that.
:)”
In which case, a lot more husbands in Rasheed’s neighbourhood should begin locking their tool sheds...