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Forever Amber
Archive 08-19 GR Discussions
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Forever Amber - with reading schedule
so, I could not sleep very well last night and I picked up the book and read and read and read...I just couldn't stop. I just finished and I can't help, but wish there was a sequel.
At this point (finished ch. 17), Amber and Barbara are striking me similarly. Neither seem like survivors as much as social climbers who will step on anyone, use anyone to get one rung higher on the social ladder.
I am the same way. I have strong negative feelings toward Amber. A baby, someone that offered to help her get started and on her way, Jack Black, she does nothing with it. She is seems to learn nothing from her experiences she gets pregnant again. She is certainly is a minx. I think Amber would fit right into our world today Irene speaking of stepping on anyone.
I see it at my workplace everyday it is truly sad and people are having to fight to hang onto their jobs so badly they are out for blood.
And, what strikes me as unique, especially for the time this was written, is that Amber and Barbara are not somehow forced to be this way by their background. Neither are desperate cast-offs of their culture. Both have a comfortable and secure situation. And, both cast off what should have been a happy home to gain more wealth, more social status, more prominance, more excitement in life.
I was taking it from an opposite perspective - imagining not being able to marry for love, but being forced to marry some young man who can offer you security but who you don't love. Not even being able to make your own way. I think the comparison to Scarlett is really good, but I see more what the time makes them become. Social climbers in a time when that was all that mattered. With Black Jack I saw it as her bringing sleeping with him for survival. If she didn't he would have raped her anyway and then being on the street was her only option for survival. I think fear of ever being brought low drives her after those experiences. I don't know that I like her but I understand her in the context of her time. I wonder if women in the 40s understood her much the same way since their choices were so very limited too. And maybe even secretly admired her throwing off all social norms and seeking decadence. I suppose there were times in my life when decadence and frivolity was appealing.
I've been following Chicks for a while now but just have not had the opportunity to read one of the selections and join in. But this book is too good to pass on! I discovered this one as a young teenager and when my mother raised an eyebrow and said, oh yes--the book that was banned in Boston--well, I had to read it! I plan to re-read and jump in the discussion soon!
I was also thinking that since this book was published during war times, this would have great appeal to women for escapism. What do you think?
I think every era deserves escapism
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You could be right. This could have been the Fifty Shades of Grey for that generation.
Well my Aunt said the same thing. She said it was their version of Fifty Shades. To us this seems quite modest.
Which makes me wonder what people will be reading in another 50 years. Will readers think that 50 Shades is unremarkable?
Mod
Never read 50 Shades. Is it worth reading?
I am with Sheila on Fifty shadesFifty Shades is so poor on so many levels.
Sandi I can say I have invested in a lot more edgy literature more New Adult than erotic but I would say No to the worth reading. I would actually say Hell to the NO!!
I read the first with a reading group and was mostly reading because of all the buzz. Trust me there is better material and writing out there.
Thanks Rebecca. I've heard so much hype, but have avoided up until now. Now I know that is a good decision. Thanks!
If you want suggestions Sandi I highly recommmed J. Lynn and Collen Hoover. Both can write and they leave you with sizzle and heart melting all wonderfully all over the place.
I had absolutely no desire to read Fifty Shades.
Mod
If you don't have an overwhelming curiosity about it, then forget it. It is not worth the paper (or e-ink) it is printed on. :-)
I have to say I too am guilty of devouring this one...I finished it about a week or so ago! The section with Black Jack is one of my favorites because I think this is where Amber really learns how to survive. She stops being gullible and starts really looking out for herself. Men become a mechanism for her to survive...and with Lord Carlton gone there is really no one there to protect her. I think that by far it is this section where she is the strongest and I find I admire her to some degree.
In terms of whether or not I like Amber I can say that I definitely do not. She doesn't seem to really love and show compassion for anyone or anything other than herself. Her son seems like an afterthought. I began to think about mothers during this time period in general...if for self preservation they found that they had to distance themselves from their children to some degree because so many of them didn't survive. Either way to me that really isn't any excuse...I can't help but think that if Amber truly loved Lord Carlton that she would have loved and welcomed his child.
Speaking of Lord Carlton he's a piece of work. My biggest problem with him to be honest is that he gave Amber all of that money and told her to put it with a blacksmith/banker/what have you. If he had just done that himself she never would have gotten into such a big mess.
Finally, I feel so bad for Almsbury. I can't help but think that if stupid Amber just fell in love with Almsbury he would have done right by her and they would have had a lovely life together. Of the two men his character just really seems to be of much better quality.
Loved chapter 17 because we get a blessed break from Amber. Curious as to what other feet about Catherine and the King Charles request? Must have been a difficult position for them both although I felt for Catherine being in a foreign land and felt she had the harder adjustment to make.
I think Charles certainly made Catherine understand just how powerless she was.
This section made me dislike Amber even more than I already do. I was furious with her for stealing Beck's boyfriend. That was pure selfishness. She has a terible attitud of "Harrah for me and to hell with everyone else". The FDA should pin a sign to her saying "Contact with this creature is hazardous to your health." She should have married Rex. She steals him, then uses him. She won't marry him because she does not prceive it as her best deal. Well, too bad, Girlie. People's hearts are not like shopping for a car or discount jeans. Actually, most people I know show more respect for their cars than Amber shows for people. Poor Rex, he seemed to love her and she uses him like everyone else.
I see a parallel between Barbara and the Queen and Amber's story. Barbara is married, but she does not care a bit about the feelings of her husband or of anyone else. Again, it is all about me. And, no, I don't feel sorry for the King. If you are going to screw around, people are going to get hurt. You can't have everything, all the sex partners and no one jealous or upset. If that is what you want, pay for a prostitute. And, if you are going to need so many sex partners, I would have assumed you had a set of balls, so use them when the shit hits the fan, and do so with at least a minimum of integrity.
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LOL Irene! Though the men Amber comes in contact with do seem to have a high propensity for ending up dead!
I am enjoying the chapters about historical England and King Charles, just for the history part of it. I am wondering though how much the King and court are going to end up playing into the story. It seems apparent now, since Amber has slept with the King (that just suddenly happened, didn't it??) that she may be heading to the King's court soon.
Well this was some section for reading. What do you think of the portrayal of men in the book? Women, well that is another story, are they all portrayed like Amber? What is the author really saying?
On a side, I keep call Black Jack Jack Black, I wonder if that was where he got his name??? :)
The book said something about Black Jack's nickname coming from a drinking bet, his ability to consume some large quantity of Black Jack liquor. Can't recall the details.
Meg - there is a comic film actor named Jack Black. Maybe you're getting it there.
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The women in this story all do seem to be scheming, conniving woman who are just trying to snag the best man without any dreams of love in an effort to elevate their social position. But then we have the counter-story of the King, and his new wife has no power at all.
Is the author trying to say that the prostitutes and lowly women can control their lives, but it sucks to be a royal woman?
Meg wrote: "If you remember, the family that Amber lived with before she ran away was a poor farming couple. At one point they were talking about how they should tell Amber someday about the fact that she cam..."This drives me crazy as I'm reading this book....when will it come up again?
It's hard for me to know what to say about the men because I think the author definatly has the women in the fore front. The title is very fitting no joke about it being called Forever Amber. I think she blew it with Rex. I had hopes for Lord Carlton. Is he just young and adventurous and not settling down yet?
I was excited for the conflict between Bruce and Rex. For me it livend things up.
I will definatley be up for the book after Game of Thrones after this. I like it but I am not
ripping through it. Amber exhausts me and I have to take a break here and there. The last section was all day of Amber it nearly killed me :) She did put some thought into Rex and the girl helper in this section and I think she is learning her place in London as a women, and she admits her greed now so I am hopeful for her.
I see Lord Carlton as a snake. I think he is the male version of Amber. I think that is why they are so attracted to each other. He is very self centered and always off on an adventure. I really liked Rex, the best of all the characters so far.
The one thing that Carlton has (in my opinion) that Amber lacks is that Carlton is not dishonest or two-faced. He may be all about himself and his desire for adventure, but he is up front about it. Amber is a coniving sneak that will stab anyone in the back if it will get them out of her way to get one rung higher on her social ladder.
Meg wrote: "I see Lord Carlton as a snake. I think he is the male version of Amber. I think that is why they are so attracted to each other. He is very self centered and always off on an adventure. I reall..."I'm very confused by Carlton, but he is definitely all about himself. Interesting point about him being the male version of Amber too. I hadn't thought of that, but I think you are right. I have finished the book and I agree about Rex still. He was my favorite character!
I just had to keep reminding myself how young Amber is and the time period it takes place in. I remember thinking horrible things about The Great Gatsby and I had to remember the author's purpose.
Oh, I forgot to mention that I too agree about Rex. He seems the most genuine out of the whole group. Naive to an extent, but very in love and most willing to care for Amber.
I agree with Meg's take on Lord Carlton; especially after getting farther along in the story. I really wanted to love this book, since I love the time period and it's a very well-told story, but I'm not. I guess I need someone to root for!
Hi, I'm Julie and I'm totally new to the group. Am I too late to join in the fun?
No you are not too late Julie, we would love to have you!
Sharon, I keep thinking about what you said about not having someone to root for. I think you are right, it makes it difficult to get really into one specific character. What do the rest of you think?
I was rooting or Amber. Know I am in the minority, but I wanted her to find happiness and love.
I don't like any of the characters either. Amber and Barbara are so over the top with their coniving that I am tempted to laugh at times. Poisoning a guy to get him to marry you because he is super rich? And, to think that the moral police of the 1940s were upset by the hint of sex. I think sex is Amber's least moral flaw.
Are we through the plague years yet?
Meg wrote: "Sharon, I keep thinking about what you said about not having someone to root for. I think you are right, it makes it difficult to get really into one specific character. What do the rest of you t..."I definitely had trouble with this throughout the book. I rooted for Rex quite a bit and sort of hoped Bruce would just scoop Amber up and take her away instead of always leaving her, but really, I rooted for no one and it made me less connected to the story to some extent.
I keep rooting for each new man that brushes up against Amber's life, trying to get him to RUN before she causes him harm.
OK this week's reading, were you surprised? Sad? Mad?
Appalled, both at the ludicrous plot trajectory, one more even richer man than before just falls into her lap and at the conniving miserable behavior, resorting now to poisoning her would-be lover.
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Chicks On Lit
Books mentioned in this topic
Fifty Shades of Grey (other topics)Authors mentioned in this topic
Colleen Hoover (other topics)J. Lynn (other topics)
Good point, Beth. Now that you mention it, I see lots of similar characteristics between Amber and Scarlet, and I didn't like Scarlet as a person either. :-)