New Moon (The Twilight Saga, #2) New Moon discussion


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Does anyone else thinks that Bella shuting of her emotins was actualy impresive?

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Ansis Sparāns Everyone says that Bella was weak for shuting herself aut like she did, but has any of those people ever realize how hard it actualy would be to do that, to control your emotions so comepleately that you can shut them down alltugether?
Most people would love to do that at some poin of their life, but they just cant.
It was first time in these books that I saw that Bella has something special abaut her afterall.


message 2: by Luna Belle Pris (last edited Jun 08, 2013 09:44AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Luna Belle Pris When did she shut down her emotions? I saw some of that in Breaking Dawn, but she was pretty much an emotional wreck in New Moon. She was found lying in the woods, she sat in her room forever and was screaming at night in her sleep. I also think the motorcycle thing was an outlet for her grief. I think she was strong in other ways but not in this way particularly...


Nuran When did she shut herself off? I remember she thought she did so well in hiding it but then realised her father and Jacob saw through her barrier. Jacob even teased Edward with his memory of the mess Bella was in when he left her, as Edward is a mind reader and saw Jacob memory of Bella being in a mess.

You must have read a different book.


Brynne I think that Bella did shut out her emotions and that's why she was depressed. Because she didn't feel all that much. I think she tried to keep it together and was strong in this moment.


message 5: by Nuran (last edited Jun 08, 2013 05:48PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Nuran She thought she was doing a good job at hiding it, but found out later from what her father said and the memory of Bella being a mess that Jacob tried to show Edward, that she never did a good job hiding it at all. Her screaming in her sleep every night is also not hiding it.

Bella is what you call an unreliable narrator (actual writing term if you want to look it up) during her depressed mode. You find out the truth from the way her friends and family talk and react. Bella is living in lalala land while depressed and the only one she was fooling was herself..


Brynne I think that she wasn't really trying to fool everyone. She was just trying to stay away from the pain for herself.


Ansis Sparāns Well I never said she fooled anyone, or that she wasnt deprest, but she was functional went to school got streight A's. Did good in job and any task that didnt involve emotinal contact.
Fact that she didnt notice how people reacted to her behavior only indicates that she was shut down, becouse you cant interpret corectly other people if you dont feel anything.
Her dreams wasnt just abaut Edward, but abaut her emotions trying to get lose when her rational mind couldnt protect herself.
Other problems came only after she avekened her emotions.

P.S. I never said it was good or helthy what she did to hersef, only that it was impresive and that most people couldnt do it nealy as efectivly no mater how hard they tride it.


Kataury I would disagree that it was impressive. Most people that enter into depressions end up cutting off emotions, so in no way was Bella special. If you looked around in high school, some of those kids that were usually happy and smiling are most of the time hiding the fact that they're deeply in depression and don't want others to worry or shun them. Bella acted 'normal' in most cases, and while the majority accepted it (or didn't care) the few that were close realized that she wasn't right in the head. It's the exact same case with reality.
I personally found Bella's depression like all depressions: frustrating and pathetic. It's hard to get someone out of a depression, and I have peers that enter into depressions for more ridiculous reasons than Bella, and no matter what you say to them they refuse to get over it.
Bella didn't shut off her emotions, that was just Kristen Stewart's awful acting (because she can't display any other emotion except apathy :S ). Bella acted normal on the outside, but to those few people who chose to see it and look for it, they noticed that Bella was clinically depressed. So impressive? No. A good example of teenagers that get depressed over simple things, like all teenagers are prone to? Yes.


message 9: by [deleted user] (last edited Jun 09, 2013 12:56PM) (new)

Not even close.

It does go to show that she has a horrible and counterproductive coping mechanism, which devolves into depression (a mental disorder). That is about as far from impressive as one can get.

And I was fairly sure that she suffered emotional implosion, not a distance.


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

What would have been impressive, though, if she had taken control of her own life and moved on. As in, make peace with his absence and explore other aspects of school and friendship, rather than moping 24/7.

"Woe's me" is still a sign of weakness, no matter what kind of trouble you face. Those who are strong recognize the tragedy, come to terms with it, and start fresh with no sore feelings.


Teresa Nuran wrote: "When did she shut herself off? I remember she thought she did so well in hiding it but then realised her father and Jacob saw through her barrier. Jacob even teased Edward with his memory of the me..."

Bella TOTALLY herself off from her family and friends after Edward left her in the woods.All the Months went on and on, then Charlie told her she needs to go to her Mom's for a while. Bella whined at the fact she was going to be sent away. Soon after she went out with Jessica. Then soon after that she went out with Mike and Jacob to see some stupid Movie.
I believe that Jacob was used in a way after that.


Jessica Susterich She wasn't really shuting down she was giving in. She was depressed. That is what depressed people do. If she really shut down her emotions she would go back into the world and act like nothing happened and he didn't break her heart.


Teresa Jessica wrote: "She wasn't really shuting down she was giving in. She was depressed. That is what depressed people do. If she really shut down her emotions she would go back into the world and act like nothing hap..."

I've been Depressed in the past and I never shut anybody out. I was one that wanted to talk to people and I felt like I needed to. It was partly because of ALL i went through with Breaking up with my now Ex-Boyfriend. I also had Anxiety and Panic Attacks along with the Depression.
Not ALL people act the same way with Depression.

I do agree with you, though, Jessica.


Jessica Susterich I do know that all people react differently because how you react depends on how you are raised and what enviroment you are always around like highschool. But her reaction did not make sense to me. Honestly "Me and my family need to leave because people are getting suspicious and we might expose are kind and that cannot happen.... No you can't come it will be too dangerous." Yes upset but MONTHS of locking yourself up, please that is not impressive. Sorry if I offended you Teresa.


Nuran Teresa wrote: "Nuran wrote: "When did she shut herself off? I remember she thought she did so well in hiding it but then realised her father and Jacob saw through her barrier. Jacob even teased Edward with his me..."

Yeah she shut herself out from her family but we were talking about shutting her emotions off. You need to read shut off in the context its been written in..

She thought she shut her EMOTIONS from the outside world and look like she was just acting normal but her dad and Jacob saw through it, that's why they took initiative to stop her being depressed. Bella didn't shut out the depression or emotion she felt, even if she didn't talk to them about it, everyone could still see it.

Bella thought she look and acted normal and thought she was fooling everyone, but she didn't.


Books for Badger Ansis wrote: "Well I never said she fooled anyone, or that she wasnt deprest, but she was functional went to school got streight A's. Did good in job and any task that didnt involve emotinal contact.
Fact that s..."


Yes, I agree. Not healthy or recommended but kind of impressive.


Ansis Sparāns booksandbeaches wrote: "Ansis wrote: "Well I never said she fooled anyone, or that she wasnt deprest, but she was functional went to school got streight A's. Did good in job and any task that didnt involve emotinal contac..."

Finaly someone agrees with me! I knew that most would fell diferent whan me, but I thaught more people would see my point.


Ansis Sparāns Also, why does everyone keaps saying she didnt fooll anyone. That has no bearing in this discusion whatsoever!!!


Nuran Ansis wrote: "Also, why does everyone keaps saying she didnt fooll anyone. That has no bearing in this discusion whatsoever!!!"

Because her friends and family seeing she was in pain, which is proof she didn't shut out her emotions. She thought she tricked them but she didn't.


Ansis Sparāns Whey saw that something was seariosly wrong - which it was, but most of them was just surprised that she started talking again.
Charlie was onlyone she tried to foal(not that it has any conection to this discusion), and mostly he was comefused not knowing what is wrong with her.


message 21: by Orli (new) - rated it 4 stars

Orli It was a sighn of an abusive relationship
in which he was her hole life, and she had
nothing But him in he world. So wen he
left he took her hole world, so I think
That she should of lived with the fact that
He was gone and their was nothing she
Could do about it.


Marilyn Jacob was used in a way as a possible rebound imo. I felt that Bella was so dependent on Edward, that once he left she turned to Jacob to fill that void.

Also, LOL. Being clinically depressed because your boyfriend dumped you is not a characteristic I would call strong.


Ansis Sparāns Orli wrote: "It was a sighn of an abusive relationship
in which he was her hole life, and she had
nothing But him in he world. So wen he
left he took her hole world, so I think
That she should of lived with..."


Comepleately of the topic!


message 24: by Ansis (last edited Jun 21, 2013 10:28PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ansis Sparāns Kasabuta wrote: "Jacob was used in a way as a possible rebound imo. I felt that Bella was so dependent on Edward, that once he left she turned to Jacob to fill that void.

Also, LOL. Being clinically depressed bec..."


Of topic aswell and I didnt say she was beaing strong I said it was impresive - comepleately diferent things. Do you people even read what is writen in discusion or just write first thing on your mind withaut thinking?


message 25: by Marilyn (last edited Jun 21, 2013 10:53PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Marilyn Ansis wrote: "Kasabuta wrote: "Jacob was used in a way as a possible rebound imo. I felt that Bella was so dependent on Edward, that once he left she turned to Jacob to fill that void.

Also, LOL. Being clinica..."


Then let me rephrase it since you refuse to answer me fully. How is being clinically depressed because your boyfriend left you "impressive"?

Bella didn't want to live anymore. She risked her life multiple times just for the sake of hearing a voice. And other stuff that I might have missed since it's been a good 4-5 years since I've read it.


Ansis Sparāns Again! You just have to go autside this discusion - Bella didnt start risking her life untill after she avekened her emotions.
If you dont have anything to say in parameters of oriģinal discusion then just dont say it.


message 27: by Marilyn (last edited Jun 22, 2013 10:43PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Marilyn This is not outside the discussion LOL. Because of her shutting down, it LEAD to these stupid stunts.

Cause and effect, bro. Look it up.


Ansis Sparāns Kasabuta wrote: "This is not outside the discussion LOL. Because of her shutting down, it LEAD to these stupid stunts.

Cause and effect, bro. Look it up."


No Edward leving lead to all this mess, but if she hadnt shut down her emotions she would have done these or much worse things much earlier. Shuting down gave her breathing space and time to adjust.

Anyway this discusion is not abaut wheather it was good or bad that she shut herself of.
It is not abaut her beaing strong or weak.
It is not discusion abaut her being deprest or not.

It is discusion abaut one specific thing - was it impresive that she shut her emotions of?


Ansis Sparāns libellule wrote: "Ansis wrote: "Kasabuta wrote: "This is not outside the discussion LOL. Because of her shutting down, it LEAD to these stupid stunts.

Cause and effect, bro. Look it up."

No Edward leving lead to a..."


Not at all - give me valid reasons that actualy conected to subject - I hapen to agree abaut most of what you say abaut Bella and her depresion. I just dont see the conection with this discusion.
If you want give credible answer please read what i have writen wery carefuly and think a good solid argument.

P.S. And even if that was true I am not the only one her who stubornly refuses to akcept any arguments.


Ansis Sparāns One other thing discusion isnt abaut proving or disproving any one theory, but to give your ovne opinion abaut it. So you disagre with me that is okey. I dont nead anyone to agree with me.
What I wanted is for you to look at this situation on whitch you all have such a deap seated opinion and maybe see it from diferent angle, if that is to hard for you it is your ovne los.


message 31: by Ansis (last edited Jun 23, 2013 12:25PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ansis Sparāns First let me tell you finaly!!! No one before asked questions so I didnt give my full arguments - whats the point if no one wants to hear them anyway.

1. Bella was deprest, but I dont think her shuting of her emotions was just simptom, but coping mehanism. She was in enormous amount of pain (for good or bad reason no one can deny that she was) she couldnt deal with it, so she made it go avay and was for most part functional until she avakened it.
2. Believe it or not, but from what I read it was preaty abios that she made concios desision to shut herself of and it would take great amount of concentration to do that (even if she sometimes slipt, like in dreams).
3. It was preaty unicue. Most people just couldnt do it. Someone mentioned that many deprest kids shut themselves of from their frends and pretend to be hapy, but this was comepleately diferent situation.
those kids for most part were stil miserable, even if no one could tell it. Bella wasnt miserable for most part she was just numb.
4. Human emotions rule our lives 98% of the time. I just faund it impresive that she could make them go avey(for most part).
5. Do you think you could do it if you wanted it?


Ansis Sparāns I wanted to tell you all one more thing.
First time when I faund aut anything abaut twilight was when I actualy read it. It was a random book that I dounloded, so any opinion I got from it was totaly unbiased. How many of you can say the same?


message 33: by Jessica (last edited Jun 23, 2013 11:32AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Jessica Ansis wrote: "1. Bella was deprest, but I dont think it was just simptom, but coping mehanism. She was in enormous amount of pain (for good or bad reason no one can deny that she was) she couldnt deal with it, so she made it go avay and was for most part functional until she avakened it."

Stop. Just, please stop.

Depression is not a coping mechanism. People become depressed when they can't cope with the situation. Her 'shutting off her emotions' was a sign of depression. Her risk taking activities just to see and hear hallucinations was also apart of her depression. She had clinical depression, she wasn't functioning. Those four months showed how she wasn't functioning.

It is the steps you take every day to not be crushed and overwhelmed with your depression and getting over your depression that is impressive. Bella did nothing but enable her depression. Nothing she did in New Moon before Italy was impressive. It was all bad decisions.

Ansis wrote: "3. It was preaty unicue. Most people just couldnt do it. Someone mentioned that many deprest kids shut themselves of from their frends and pretend to be hapy, but this was comepleately diferent situation.

4. Human emotions rule our lives 98% of the time. I just faund it impresive that she could make them go avey(for most part). "


Bella didn't actively 'shut down her emotions', she became depressed. She did the same thing everyone else did and does when they become depressed; hide it. She tried hiding it though her actions showed that she wasn't doing it well.

She didn't make them go away, what she did is a little thing called repression. Everyone does it and can do it.

description


Jessica Ansis wrote: "I wanted to tell you all one more thing.
First time when I faund aut anything abaut twilight was when I actualy read it. It was a random book that I dounloded, so any opinion I got from it was tota..."


This matters why? I don't get it.


message 35: by Izzy (last edited Jun 23, 2013 11:53AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Izzy "but has any of those people ever realize how hard it actualy would be to do that, to control your emotions so comepleately that you can shut them down alltugether? Most people would love to do that at some poin of their life, but they just cant. "

Forgive my post if it seems confusing. There are moments where I have a real problem with communicating my outlook to other people. Could be that I'm spouting bullshit but I'm kind of using personal experience here so it could have just applied to me.
I can't talk about the Twilight series on this matter because I read it many years ago and don't have a good recollection of it. However, what I will say is that the way that you're looking at it the wrong way.

Feeling numb and experiencing very little emotion is a sign of depression. So, yeah. Having your emotions cut can be done. However, and this is the important bit, you're assuming that it can be turned on and off like a light switch. You're assuming that the person has control over this. That's wrong. Rather it's a lack of control, I suppose you could say(?)

Imagine being bombarded with a traumatic experience (bullying, a phobia--your choice) that you refuse to deal with. Now in order to deal with that experience, you have to accept with what's happening and, eventually, overcome it.
But at the moment, that's not going to happen. It's not a matter of won't (where you do have control not to deal with it) but can't. You simply cannot deal with the fear, pain or sadness that just keeps hitting you whenever you're going through that situation.
You're not making that decision to move your emotions to a vault. Your mind and body is. You have no say on the matter. You're not given an expiration date, reason or conditions--absolutely nothing.

When you're feeling numb, you're not functioning properly. Sure, you go through the days and seem fine but actually, you're simply not able to live a normal life. With no emotions you have no desires, aspirations or even coping mechanisms. Often, the person manages to successfully mimic emotions because of paranoia (They think, "I don't think I'm doing OK which means that everyone else knows that I'm not doing OK. I can't deal with this. I have to show them that they're wrong.") or because they think that it will make them feel again. (Research suggests that even when you feel sad, you should smile because that will make you feel happier.)
That's why people often say that the happiest person in the room may have experienced depression/going through depression. It could be that they think that they're trying to prove a point to other people but really, they're trying to fool themselves.

Depression, particularly when you have PTSD, is not a coping mechanism. You're not actively trying to destruct yourself (like alcohol or drug abuse) and you're not helping yourself (like counselling, conquering our fears) because, again, it's all about control.
If you think of Heaven, Hell and Purgatory then the state of mind that you're in when you're depressed is like Purgatory. You're constantly waiting for someone else to take notice that something is wrong with you.

Most of the time, you find yourself crying but when people ask you what's wrong, you either make up a reason or just say that you don't know why. Often than not, you really don't know why you're crying.
When you trip over and hurt your knee, you're crying because your knee is hurting. When you're depressed and your mind has buried all of these feelings and memories, you don't know why you're crying.
You know that something is wrong but you don't know why or how this depression started.

Emotions make us human. Emotions are related to our survival instinct. A 'normal' person would be afraid/wary of high places because they're afraid that they're going to fall and die. Sometimes, a depressed person would be afraid/wary of high places because they're not afraid of dying. And that's the scariest thing. They're not afraid to die but they kind of know that they should be. They know that they can't live but they know that they can die.

And what's the point in living a life if you can't feel anything? It's just plain torture. Self-harm or suicide, in a way, is gaining just a little bit of control back.

I hope I at least made some sense somewhere? :/


Ansis Sparāns Jesse wrote: "Stop. Just, please stop.

Depression is not a coping mechanism. People become depressed when they can't cope with the situation. Her 'shutting off her emotions' was a sign of depression. Her risk taking activities just to see and hear hallucinations was also apart of her depression. She had clinical depression, she wasn't functioning. Those four months showed how she wasn't functioning.
..."

Okey it was a mistake - English is not my native I sometimes write things wrong. Depresion isnt coping mehanism - represion is.
Yes everyone do it, but diference is to what extent? And it is very efective coping mehanism or we all wouldnt use it.


Ansis Sparāns Izzy wrote: "You're not making that decision to move your emotions to a vault. Your mind and body is. You have no say on the matter. You're not given an expiration date, reason or conditions--absolutely nothing..."
But what is you, if not body and mind?


message 38: by Ansis (last edited Jun 23, 2013 12:51PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ansis Sparāns Izzy wrote: "Most of the time, you find yourself crying but when people ask you what's wrong, you either make up a reason or just say that you don't know why. Often than not, you really don't know why you're crying...."
She never cried - it is probably a bad thing, but I just dont ge why you mention it. In fact you described depresion realy good, but most of it doesnt realy fits in this dicusion (some of it doesnt even fits with this book).


Jessica Ansis wrote: "Izzy wrote: "Most of the time, you find yourself crying but when people ask you what's wrong, you either make up a reason or just say that you don't know why. Often than not, you really don't know ..."

I think she did cry. But she did one of those things she usually does where she doesn't realize her body is doing something and is mystified by it. I think throughout the series she's cried no more than three times. In Twilight, New Moon, and I'm not sure about Breaking Dawn.


message 40: by Izzy (new) - rated it 2 stars

Izzy Ansis wrote: "Izzy wrote: "Most of the time, you find yourself crying but when people ask you what's wrong, you either make up a reason or just say that you don't know why. Often than not, you really don't know ..."

I explained all of that in my post-->

"Forgive my post if it seems confusing. There are moments where I have a real problem with communicating my outlook to other people. Could be that I'm spouting bullshit but I'm kind of using personal experience here so it could have just applied to me.
I can't talk about the Twilight series on this matter because I read it many years ago and don't have a good recollection of it. However, what I will say is that the way that you're looking at it the wrong way.
"

I only wanted to clear up some of the misconceptions that you had about depression.


Ansis Sparāns Izzy wrote: "I only wanted to clear up some of the misconceptions that you had about depression. "
Very vell - it is just that I knew all of it and I dont see haw what I writen would contradikt that.


message 42: by Izzy (new) - rated it 2 stars

Izzy Ansis wrote: "Izzy wrote: "I only wanted to clear up some of the misconceptions that you had about depression. "
Very vell - it is just that I knew all of it and I dont see haw what I writen would contradikt that."


- You thought that Bella was unique in what she did. In fact, everybody is capable of being able to experience depression and feeling numb.
- You thought that it couldn't happen in real life. (Or if you did, you believed that it couldn't happen that often.)
- You thought that if it could happen in real life, emotions could be turned on and turned off at will.
- You thought that if it could happen then it was a good thing.
- You believed that when a person is depressed, they're still functioning and could live a "normal" life.
- You thought that depression was a coping mechanism when it isn't.

Based on your replies in this thread, you didn't know that much.


message 43: by Ansis (last edited Jun 24, 2013 06:55AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ansis Sparāns - You thought that Bella was unique in what she did. In fact, everybody is capable of being able to experience depression and feeling numb. - No I thought that the extent to witch she did it was impresive.

- You thought that it couldn't happen in real life. (Or if you did, you believed that it couldn't happen that often.) - Depresion hapens all the time, but thats not what this diskusion is abaut. What it is abaut is the Bellas ability to shut down her pain or as you called it - repres her ovne fealings. Maybe it is not uncomon on some level, but it is in the extent that bella did it.

- You thought that if it could happen in real life, emotions could be turned on and turned off at will.- I still do, everything we do we do it at will (even if it is unconcios will)

- You thought that if it could happen then it was a good thing. - Ok I said this so many times it makes me incedibly mad that you stil dont get it I never said it was good. Just that it was impresive
There are many imresive things in the world. Few of them good.
- You believed that when a person is depressed, they're still functioning and could live a "normal" life. - Where did you even got this bullshit?
- You thought that depression was a coping mechanism when it isn't.
I alredy explained that this was misunderstunding becouse I wrote one sentence wrong. In fact if you realy had read what I wrote you woud know that!


Jessica Ansis wrote: "Ok I said this so many times it makes me incedibly mad that you stil dont get it I never said it was good. Just that it was impresive
There are many imresive things in the world. Few of them good."


How else are we supposed to see you saying it was impressive? If someone is impressed by something wouldn't you say that the thing they were impressed by was good?

Can you name some impressive things that aren't good?

Ansis wrote: "- Depresion hapens all the time, but thats not what this diskusion is abaut. What it is abaut is the Bellas ability to shut down her pain or as you called it - repres her ovne fealings. Maybe it is not uncomon on some level, but it is in the extent that bella did it."

It doesn't seem like you've read about depression or been around people with depression to see how it works. What we keep saying is that what Bella did wasn't impressive because it's not unique. Anybody can do it and has done it. That's why we've been saying that it's not impressive. What she did is what anybody who is depressed does.

Ansis wrote: "I still do, everything we do we do it at will (even if it is unconcios will)"

Well then, turn your emotions off right now, if you think that it's just a matter of will.


message 45: by Ansis (last edited Jun 25, 2013 09:49AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ansis Sparāns Jesse wrote: "Can you name some impressive things that aren't good? ..."
Nucklear bomb!
Cancer!
Reality tv (almost as impresive in their stupidity as you)!!!


Ansis Sparāns What she did is what anybody who is depressed does. ..."
What is or ever bin predictible abaut depresion? Everyone does it diferently. I was impresed by her metod.


message 47: by Marilyn (last edited Jun 25, 2013 03:45PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Marilyn I never knew cancer was something impressive that people would brag about. I can imagine it now. Also, there is nothing impressive about reality tv. The fact that people actually watch that junk is even more depressing than this discussion of having to explain this topic to you.

Besides, what Bella did with her "emotions" and shutting them down. How is this impressive? Everyone does it when they're depressed. This might be more along the lines of "I woke up this morning" or "I got up to pick up the remote."


Jessica Ansis wrote: "Jesse wrote: "Can you name some impressive things that aren't good? ..."
Nucklear bomb!
Cancer!
Reality tv (almost as impresive in their stupidity as you)!!!"


What is impressive about these things? These are all bad things that give off nothing to be impressed about. Seriously, I don't get you.


Jessica Ansis wrote: "What she did is what anybody who is depressed does. ..."
What is or ever has been predictable about depression? Everyone does it differently, I was just impressed by her method."


Her method is called repression. Everyone represses their emotions when they're depressed. That's a part of being depressed. When you're depressed you don't want to feel emotions so you repress them until all that remains is nothingness. That is a part of every type of depression.

I understand that you're impressed by her repressing her emotions, I just don't get why as this is something everyone can do and have done and thus is something that isn't unique or impressive. She isn't the first to do this.


Ansis Sparāns Jesse wrote: "What is impressive about these things? These are all bad things that give off nothing to be impressed about. Seriously, I don't get you.
"


If you read coments above that is kind of a point!

Impresive Definition:
Making a strong or vivid impression; striking or remarkable.

Impresive is prety much everything that leaves a lasting impresion on you - since when only good things do that?


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