Twilight
discussion
Am I the only one thinks Bella is a strong character??
Jesse wrote: To which I said I didn't enjoy because it didn't make her sound smart to name drop nor did it make her sound like a avid reader. And besides, scholars dedicate their lives to reading everything by those authors, there's no way that in Bella's 17 short years of life that she's read everything there was to read on those authors. That's why I said it wasn't impressive nor believable. She didn't say that she had read everything by those authors. She said that she read everything on her new school's required reading list. I've had some experience moving from an affluent school district to a lesser one and I had that same experience as Bella where I'd already done everything that they were currently doing. I was placed in honors classes and I'd still done most of it already. I didn't think Bella's experience of moving from a large city to a small town and having already done everything in the curriculum was unrealistic at all.
I don't know about you, but Austen was apart of my curriculum, so I can't say that she's a non school regulated author. And in that part you're talking of, she only mentioned Austen. To which, yeah, like all the classics you want, but this name dropping isn't impressive. Sorry, don't buy it. It doesn't make her seem smarter and more mature to me that she reads classics and only classics, which I'm sure was Meyer's intention.
I view it as non school regulated because that wasn't her assignment at that particular time. She was reading in her free time and that is what she chose to read on her own.
It most certainly was SM's intention but I didn't mind it so much. I like when books reference other books and I love it even more when young people are encouraged to read those other books after reading about them.
Let's see,...She didn't care about the motorcycle, didn't care if once it served it's purpose to her that it was sold or given away. It seems like she only used the bike to be with Jacob, as Edward had come to the conclusion of. It doesn't give off the air of her genuinely enjoying riding the bike, that if Jacob was not riding with her that she would ride on her own, or want to. It doesn't sound like she cared about the bike either way, not like she cared about her car.
I don't think it was because they were expensive and flashy. From what she said, it seems like she was once again bemoaning how she wasn't right for Edward, using the bikes (hers and the new one) as a comparison of them. Her old dinky bike compared to the right off the lot bike he bought.
But that's just my interpretation from reading for the last half an hour and comparing it to her enjoyment of activities that didn't involve Edward or Jacob.
I think you oversimplified some of it. She didn't care about the bike because Jake snitched to Charlie about it. That was Bella being a spiteful bratty teenager. She actually did enjoy riding. She was also just angry with Jacob. If she didn't truly enjoy riding, why would Edward even consider buying a motorcycle to ride with her? It was clearly something that she liked. The bemoaning about not being good enough for Edward is true....but that round of it was brought about because he purchased an expensive/flashy brand new bike. (fwiw, I thought that Bella had hang ups and insecurities about wealth and money that were not Edward's fault.)
Heidi wrote: "While I've read both Mocha and your explanation of this and understand what you mean I will say that I disagree with the one and only true flaw I saw from Bella. I think Bella had low self esteem , which was one of the huge building blocks of her depression. How does she get over it? She gets out of bed and decides to live her empty life. I think distracting herself with Jake is what got her out of her funk."Stevie Wonder could see that Bella has low-self esteem and issues with her self esteem. But it's like what I said to Mocha, if only we the readers see it, how is it a flaw? It doesn't deter her from anything, doesn't stop her from being with Edward nor hinders her life, so how can it be a flaw if only we see it? If it isn't dealt with or talked about, simply magically dissipates, then how is it a flaw? It's like her depression; She never dealt with it, her coping technique put her in danger, and it only went away when Edward and his magical healing peen came back.
I could understand her low self-esteem being a flaw if it truly effected her. For example, one of my flaws is that I'm super shy. It's an actual flaw of mine because it hinders me from doing things that other people do freely. Basically I'm saying I believe a flaw is a flaw in a character when it actually matters, not something that's just listed and then never shows up again.
But hes not there. I'm with you until the end point you tried to make. To me its like saying I'm so addicted to drugs I have to pretend to do them - that's how dependent I am on them. Which makes no sense to me. If I have to pretend to do them, then I'm not really dependent on them... if I'm not doing them... Right?
Your confusion has confused me, but I'll try to explain what I meant with the last bit. I'm sorry but it's basically as I said. I thought on it and I don't know how to explain it any other way than I just did. She won't listen to herself and she won't listen to others so she hallucinates that Edward is there telling her what to do. It's like not having the real drug so you go get knock-offs, generics, or a cocktail of other drugs to achieve the same high, not pretending to take the drug even though you don't have it, as you said.
Jesse wrote: "When she was walking down the isle to get married, her dad had to almost hold her back from bolting down the isle to Edward. She was excited and happy to be getting married once she saw him. (yes I know we females can be fickle things)I know you probably meant this as being snide or snotty, "
Actually I didn't mean it that way at all. But you can believe what you want.
I don't think that she was a strong character. It seemed to me that she couldn't function without Edward in her life. I might have said she was strong if it had not been for how she dealt with Edward leaving her and all; she ultimately needed a guy to take his place and delusions conjured up by danger to set her back to rights.
Jesse wrote: "Whatever his thought process, it's not his decision. It is so far from his decision that the thought and thus what he did shouldn't have been a thought to ever be born. If she wants to laze around after being turned then that's her decision. He doesn't get to put in college applications with the strict, direct intent of stopping/delaying her from being turned. That's exactly why he did it and that's not okay and what's worse is that Bella wasn't strong with him on that topic, just thought that she'll become a vampire earlier than he planned so that she didn't have to attend college. "I have to disagree on this. If someone applies for colleges for you, even if you aren't going - the correct response is THANK YOU. Because you could of decided not to go to college and then learn that you got accepted somewhere - which may have you reconsider going to college in the first place. You can still pick NO as your choice. It just allows you more choices.
Mochaspresso wrote: "She didn't say that she had read everything by those authors. She said that she read everything on her new school's required reading list."I don't mean to sound like I'm splitting hairs, but the way she said it makes it sound like she's read everything. Plus, she called it basic reading, which it is anything but.
"It was fairly basic: Bronte, Shakespeare,
Chaucer, Faulkner. I'd already read everything."
"I didn't think Bella's experience of moving from a large city to a small town and having already done everything in the curriculum was unrealistic at all."
That still sounds unrealistic to me. It just doesn't sound plausible that she's learned everything there is to know in that grade in her first school, and then she moves to a new school and they're just getting to teaching what she already was taught. If so then she needed to test out of that grade. No sense in staying in the same grade, wasting time when you know it all already.
Mochaspresso wrote: "I view it as non school regulated because that wasn't her assignment at that particular time. She was reading in her free time and that is what she chose to read on her own.
It most certainly was SM's intention but I didn't mind it so much. I like when books reference other books and I love it even more when young people are encouraged to read those other books after reading about them."
That's you but I couldn't stand it. She was basically tossing it down our throats, trying to get us to believe that Bella was uber smart and mature when she came off as the opposite or Meyer didn't write it out well enough.
Mochaspresso wrote: "I think you oversimplified some of it. She didn't care about the bike because Jake snitched to Charlie about it. That was Bella being a spiteful bratty teenager. She actually did enjoy riding. She was also just angry with Jacob."
My version of Eclipse on my tablet has 353 pages. She talks of Jacob ratting her out on page six, and her mentioning not caring about the bike was on page 130. Unless she mentioned him ratting her out again closer to page 130 I don't really see them connecting. In fact, her thinking about her lack of care of what happens to the bike, her apathy for it, was rather random. So I can't really agree with her thought of the bike as her being upset still over Jacob getting her grounded.
If she didn't truly enjoy riding, why would Edward even consider buying a motorcycle to ride with her? It was clearly something that she liked.
My thought on this is because he saw how much she was going over to ride with Jacob and thought that if he rode with her instead of Jacob that she would go over less. Didn't really work out that way. I still can't say that she liked riding the motorcycle solely because of the bike.
The bemoaning about not being good enough for Edward is true....but that round of it was brought about because he purchased an expensive/flashy brand new bike. (fwiw, I thought that Bella had hang ups and insecurities about wealth and money that were not Edward's fault.)
I never saw any particular instances of Bella having insecurities on wealth and money, only that she was humble enough not to want to make it seem like she was mooching off of Edward, even if he bought her the simplest of things (which wouldn't be simple because it would no doubt be really expensive).
I have it open besides me and in the scene, she truly doesn't say anything bad about the new bike. Doesn't say that she hates it, that he'd stop buying expensive things. Even more so, the bike isn't even for her, it's for him to ride. It still makes it out that her sudden sadness with the bike was because she was hit with self doubt about how her and Edward fit together, using the bikes as a comparison.
Heidi wrote: "Jesse wrote: "Whatever his thought process, it's not his decision. It is so far from his decision that the thought and thus what he did shouldn't have been a thought to ever be born. If she wants t..."I respect your opinion, but it's a bit strange to claim that people should be thankful for the fact that others don't necessarily respect their wishes or demands, because that is essentially what happens in the situation you have just described. Sometimes it works out that way, with someone being grateful and changing his or her mind, but many other times people are not pleased, and it's not fair to say that they should be; there is no moral obligation or right or wrong response here.
Christina wrote: "I respect your opinion, but it's a bit strange to claim that people should be thankful for the fact that others don't necessarily respect their wishes or demands, because that is essentially what happens in the situation you have just described. Sometimes it works out that way, with someone being grateful and changing his or her mind, but many other times people are not pleased, and it's not fair to say that they should be; there is no moral obligation or right or wrong response here."I never said that they should be thankful. Just to respond thank you. Even if it is, thank you for putting the time and money into something I'm not going to take advantage of. Even if it is , thank you for not listening to me and doing whatever you wanted. You can just stop at thank you and not elaborate. Someone did something they thought was nice, even if it didn't apply or I saw no benefit out of it, I'd still say thank you(and be sincere about it).
Heidi wrote: "Christina wrote: "I respect your opinion, but it's a bit strange to claim that people should be thankful for the fact that others don't necessarily respect their wishes or demands, because that is ..."Yes, Heidi, you'd still say thank you, but you can't honestly or realistically expect everyone else to pretend to sincerely thank someone for basically acting against his or her wishes. Your way works for you, and that's fine.
Furthermore, I can see that you're extremely biased about this, initially using terms such as "correct" to describe this response. Your choice of words in the third sentence also hints at some bias:
Even if it is, thank you for putting the time and money into something I'm not going to take advantage of.
It comes off as a complaint about someone being ungrateful for the effort that has been put into something that this person made clear that he or she didn't desire. Hell, it practically incriminates anyone who dares refuse help because, again, this person made a decision and didn't want someone meddling.
I was pretty sure that the only reason Bella wouldn't fill out those particular college applications was because they were for Ivy League schools. Due to her low self esteem, she thought it wouldn't even be worth the time filling them out because they'd never accept her. That's why Edward did it anyway- because he believed in her and thought she was selling herself short. This is also an example of her flaw actually affecting her life.
Heidi wrote: "I have to disagree on this. If someone applies for colleges for you, even if you aren't going - the correct response is THANK YOU. Because you could of decided not to go to college and then learn that you got accepted somewhere - which may have you reconsider going to college in the first place. You can still pick NO as your choice. It just allows you more choices. "Why would you thank a person for impersonating you, using your sensitive information to fill out applications that you never would've filled out? Just, put that thought towards any type of situation. Someone fills out an application for you for a job that you never wanted. Do you still say thank you? He's her boyfriend, not her father. He has no say in what she does, nor no right. If she said she didn't want to go, she doesn't have to go! Who says thank you to someone who stole their information and did something they didn't want???
I just-can't-
Kirby wrote: "Kirby I was pretty sure that the only reason Bella wouldn't fill out those particular college applications was because they were for Ivy League schools. Due to her low self esteem, she thought it wouldn't even be worth the time filling them out because they'd never accept her. That's why Edward did it anyway- because he believed in her and thought she was selling herself short.This is also an example of her flaw actually affecting her life."
I can't believe you two are saying you think this is okay. This is worse than him watching her while she slept unawares. He filled out applications for every college he deemed worthy. It wasn't implied that he filled out applications for her to go to Ivy League colleges. The only college she mentioned having an acceptance letter for was the University of Alaska.
She never mentioned at all that she didn't think she'd get accepted to the big name colleges, she never wanted to go, period!
I just can't with you two anymore, I'm sorry.
Jesse wrote: "Why would you thank a person for impersonating you, using your sensitive information to fill out applications that you never would've filled out? Just, put that thought towards any type of situation. Someone fills out an application for you for a job that you never wanted. Do you still say thank you? He's her boyfriend, not her father. He has no say in what she does, nor no right. If she said she didn't want to go, she doesn't have to go! Who says thank you to someone who stole their information and did something they didn't want???"If my "boyfriend" filled out an application to a job I didn't want, I would say thank you. If he applied to a college for me, I would still say thank you. Because he just gave me choices I previously didn't have. And all in all, its still my choice. It's still my choice to say thank you, but no thank you. I pick and choose my arguments with my husband. And this would not be one of them.
Heidi wrote: "If my "boyfriend" filled out an application to a job I didn't want, I would say thank you. If he applied to a college for me, I would still say thank you. Because he just gave me choices I previously didn't have. And all in all, its still my choice. It's still my choice to say thank you, but no thank you. I pick and choose my arguments with my husband. And this would not be one of them. "And now your boyfriend has your SSN. Yes, thank you so much for taking my personal and sensitive information. Your either very weird or extremely trusting. Or gullible. Idk.
Heidi wrote: "Jesse wrote: "Why would you thank a person for impersonating you, using your sensitive information to fill out applications that you never would've filled out? Just, put that thought towards any ty..."It is your choice, Heidi, but this argument isn't about you ultimately having the power to choose. It's about your spouse, or anyone for that matter, not fully acknowledging the fact that you have made a decision for yourself. Someone who completely accepts and supports the fact that you have made a decision for yourself, regardless of whether or not they agree with it, won't attempt to "help" you, won't try to change your mind about it.
Well, to be honest, I didn't think his filling out the applications for her was all that bad either. She was closing off opportunities for herself by not even applying. Applying on her behalf gives her options just in case she changes her mind. It was just an application. The final decision whether or not to actually go would be ultimately hers. (Although, I will say that given their characters, I think he probably would have found a way to push or manipulate her into going had she decided not to go.) She was accepted to Dartmouth as was registered. However, in the back of her mind she kind of knew that she probably would be turned by the fall and wouldn't be able to go anyway.I thought the reason why she didn't want to go was the cost and her self esteem, too. She didn't think she was smart enough for Dartmouth and she didn't think she could afford it without taking Edward's money. (Didn't she call her acceptance "mysterious"? Wasn't it insinuated that Edward might have pulled strings to get her accepted and that he would pay for it as well?)
Jesse wrote: "I just can't with you two anymore, I'm sorry."Okay, I can see that you get irritated when I correct you. My apologies, but I just don't like to see the facts of the story twisted around, so I correct when I see mistakes. This one for instance:
"It wasn't implied that he filled out applications for her to go to Ivy League colleges."
"She never mentioned at all that she didn't think she'd get accepted to the big name colleges, she never wanted to go, period!"
Upon seeing the application to Dartmouth, Bella says: "Like I could even get in without some enormous bribe. Or was that part of the loan? The new Cullen wing of the library?"
Jesse wrote: "And now your boyfriend has your SSN. Yes, thank you so much for taking my personal and sensitive information. Your either very weird or extremely trusting. Or gullible. Idk. "My boyfriend DOES have my SSN and I have his. I don't see what the big deal is. Its not weird or gullible. Maybe you haven't been in a serious relationship before? And in order to be in a relationship with someone you should be able to trust that person.
Jesse wrote: I don't mean to sound like I'm splitting hairs, but the way she said it makes it sound like she's read everything. Plus, she called it basic reading, which it is anything but."It was fairly basic: Bronte, Shakespeare,
Chaucer, Faulkner. I'd already read everything."
That still sounds unrealistic to me. It just doesn't sound plausible that she's learned everything there is to know in that grade in her first school, and then she moves to a new school and they're just getting to teaching what she already was taught. If so then she needed to test out of that grade. No sense in staying in the same grade, wasting time when you know it all already.
I'll chalk that up to semantics because I didn't interpret "basic" in the same manner that you did. I interpreted her as saying that it was a basic or typical or standard HS curriculum.
btw, Forks HS was reading Romeo and Juliet in their Jr or Sr years. In my first HS, we actually read that in the 9th grade....and not all HS's offer the option to test out of a grade. Bella's academic advancement is actually entirely plausible and realistic to me.
I don't quite remember interpreting Eclipse in quite the same ways that you do, but I don't have that book anymore to refer to. I'll just take your word for it with a "maybe so....".
I never saw any particular instances of Bella having insecurities on wealth and money, only that she was humble enough not to want to make it seem like she was mooching off of Edward, even if he bought her the simplest of things (which wouldn't be simple because it would no doubt be really expensive).
She had low self esteem and was insecure about Edward in general. You call it humility. I call it insecurity. A big chunk of the first chapter of Breaking Dawn was lamentations over what she viewed as the ostentatious displays of wealth that her new car represented.
She's a stupid, weak, always-needs-a-man-to-save-her Mary Sue.
Kirby wrote: "Okay, I can see that you get irritated when I correct you. My apologies, but I just don't like to see the facts of the story twisted around, so I correct when I see mistakes."Make no mistake, I was not irritated, and even if I were it would not have been because of what you saw as you correcting me. I still just don't understand how people can be okay with what he did, but it is of no matter anymore.
Upon seeing the application to Dartmouth, Bella says: "Like I could even get in without some enormous bribe. Or was that part of the loan? The new Cullen wing of the library?" "
He still didn't fill out applications for her to go to that school, as you quoted, he gave her the application and the only college that is implied that he did fill out for her, which she got the acceptance letter for was University of Alaska.
And I see that she did think she couldn't get in. It still doesn't mean that she ever wanted to go to college, which still makes Edward trying to set up her life and delay her becoming a vampire not okay to me.
Heidi wrote: "My boyfriend DOES have my SSN and I have his. I don't see what the big deal is. Its not weird or gullible. Maybe you haven't been in a serious relationship before? And in order to be in a relationship with someone you should be able to trust that person. "With this not even being about me, why should Edward have hers? It's a big deal because this is yet another thing he's done without her knowledge and something she clearly doesn't like, but he doesn't care so long as it's 'good for her' , like she can't decide what's good for her or not so he has to make those decisions.
Mochaspresso wrote: "She had low self esteem and was insecure about Edward in general. You call it humility. I call it insecurity. A big chunk of the first chapter of Breaking Dawn was lamentations over what she viewed as the ostentatious displays of wealth that her new car represented. "Of course she was insecure with herself and her with Edward, I never said she wasn't. I just never saw one of her insecurities as her thinking of herself as a pauper while he the prince when it came to money and the cost of items. Like she was down trodden with yet another thing that set them apart, that made her unfit for him was that he had money and comfort of luxury while she didn't. That is one of the things I can honestly say is good about Bella, that she didn't care about his riches or what his money could buy. She in fact rejected it because as long as she had him, she didn't care about anything else.
I don't actually have anything to say on this topic, I just wanted to point out how impressed I am with the politeness here. Twilight tends to be one of those things that brings out the crazy in people, sparking long, tiresome, very scathing arguments with a lot of naysaying, lickspitting, and otherwise mindless screaming, but you lot are so polite to each other, taking other opinions into consideration, presenting your own view in a calm manner. You don't back off your view, but neither do you slash the other person's viewpoint. Thank you all for debating in a respectful manner. That is all I have to say. Good day.
Jordan wrote: "I have been in so many of these discussions, and obviously there are always haters. But a huge reasoning for why they hate the book is because Bella is a weak, single minded character. I did not ge..."Jordan wrote: "I have been in so many of these discussions, and obviously there are always haters. But a huge reasoning for why they hate the book is because Bella is a weak, single minded character. I did not ge..."
I think she's a very brave and strong character- yeah, she kinda went down hill when edward left in new moon, but maybe that shows just how strong her love for him is. Its just people who dont like twilight who make her out as a weak character
Jesse wrote: "With this not even being about me, why should Edward have hers? It's a big deal because this is yet another thing he's done without her knowledge and something she clearly doesn't like, but he doesn't care so long as it's 'good for her' , like she can't decide what's good for her or not so he has to make those decisions. "Its been a while since I have read the books, so I could remember incorrectly; But I don't remember her being upset that he applied for colleges. I don't remember any actions or comments that show "she clearly does not like" that he applied for colleges. Now that could be just me, when I clearly don't like something and I'm upset, I can be aggressive (given the situation). You maybe passive aggressive, and thats what you see when he makes a comment about not thinking that she'd be able to get into certain colleges. Again, I could be wrong about everything (wouldn't be the first time, prob not the last either).
p.s. please take these as a hypothetical, not reflections of how I really feel. If anything I feel I am passive aggressive.
Heidi wrote: "Its been a while since I have read the books, so I could remember incorrectly; But I don't remember her being upset that he applied for colleges. I don't remember any actions or comments that show "she clearly does not like" that he applied for colleges."I understand that you don't remember it, so I don't want to keep harping on about it. I'll just simply reiterate that it's my opinion of how that is how the book reads.
Olivia wrote: "agree there she was bit on week side,as a human until she became a vamp."But can she truly be said to be a strong character if she has to become a vampire to become one?
If she has to get everything that she ever dreamed of in order to attain happiness, then I can't really attest to her strength. Hardships better display strength of will and heart than fairy tale lives do, and Bella practically lives in a fairy tale. Conflicts may arise in Bella's life at times, but they are too brief to receive much credit, their resolutions just too perfect to build her character up. Some examples of this pattern are:When it appears that Jacob is in dire condition after the battle in Eclipse, he's really not, and everything is fine in the end, so she loses nothing. It was just a big scare that did nothing much for her character in the grand scheme of things.
She doesn't have to deal with Jacob's feelings for her or the anger that he directs toward Edward after he miraculously imprints on her daughter and practically forgets that he ever loved her in a romantic way at all. Problem solved.
Whereas most people would have to leave their human families behind, Bella gets to keep her father. Again, she loses nothing, and her character is no better for it.
It was completely possible that Bella might have lost a few of the members of her new family in the final battle of the series. Which didn't happen. And they all lived happily ever after. No one even got a scratch. The Cullens were able to completely sway the Volturi with words and a bit of intimidation.
So, no, Bella's character has never really been tested. It seems that Meyer was only brave enough to go halfway when she could have gone much further.
I read Twilight, but i don't think Bella's a strong character, she's so vulnerable and curious girl, just that. Her character don't express anything, in my opinion she's a simple girl who is in love with one guy and it's all that.
I have always thought Bella is a strong character. She's not a badass. She's just a strong seventeen-years-old teenager who grows up throughout the story.Being vulnerable, to fall and then to raise up just don't mean you're not strong. It means that you're human, that's very strong.
I didn't say she's a badass, excuse me if you stand that. To me Bella is just strong when she was pregnant and have a Renesmee and protect her, but then in old books she's just a girl who fall in love and nothing at all.
Jordan wrote: "I have been in so many of these discussions, and obviously there are always haters. But a huge reasoning for why they hate the book is because Bella is a weak, single minded character. I did not ge..."I believe bella is a strong character, everything you pointed out is correct, except I don't think she speaks her mind that much, sorry. But in the movies she looks horrible because Kristen Stewart played her horrible, in the book she takes risks and is funny. But book or movie she shows she will do anything to save what she loves and if that's not strong I don't know what is.
Shanu wrote: "I don't think that Bella's weak at all... She has been shown to love sarcasm, be funny and have the ability to love somebody so purely.. that's not desperation.. yeah she's centered around just one..."AGREED!
i agree. i think what makes her character so weak is the fact that its in a world of vampires and werewolves who are extremely strong. if you put yourself in those situations, would you have been able to handle it like she did? i don't know bout you but i would be lost. complete and utterly lost. people just don't give bella enough credit.(i will admit she does make herself look desperate in New Moon but in her efense she kinda did lose the love of her life)
Maggie wrote: "I understand she lost "the love of her life" but does that justify wanting to kill yourself? Excuse me for thinking that weak. How does that set a good example? The entire saga basically is about B..."In order to commit suicide you have to have the thought "I want to die". She was reckless, and stupid. But never in her thoughts was "I want to die".
Twilight for me is a guilty pleasure. I think that Bella is a terrible character, with very few brain cells of her own, and her entire life is orientated around her boyfriend. Because the books are so good, many girls who read i therefor get the idea that all you need to be happy is a boyfriend. Despite all this, I cannot put down one of the books once I pick it up.
I think there are moments in the book when she seems strong and brave, but the overall impression for me is not necessarily that she is weak, but that in the course of the book she doesn't do much for herself. She never really stands up for herself, and lets Edward and Jacob do it for her. I agree that she is brave to endure all of this, but that doesn't make her a strong, independent character.
It takes a really strong person to be completely selfless to the point of risking their own life for the people they love. Bella does that constantly. She gave everything she was and had to Edward. If you think about it maybe it's fun to trade your human life to become a vampire, but very few people would actually be brave enough to do that. I imagine, besides the cool vampire stuff, turning your back on your own nature to become something else completely, should NOT be easy, at all. Bella did it for Edward and when you'd think she didn't have anything else to give she almost died for a child-demon she knew was tearing her up apart from inside. She's strong and kind and cares for people. For me she's the toughest one on the series without a doubt...
How can anyone think Bella Swan is a strong character. She always has to be dependent on a boy, and if there's no one, she falls apart. How's that for strong?
Bella is an embarassment for all women made more so that the movie held her up to young women as a role model. The character of Bella invokes shame in strong women.
Tell me about it!!! That is so true.
I think Bella is a strong character. The problem is, this seems to fall at a price. You are right about those things. However, Bella is particularly bland and traditional. She does not make any rational decisions when she actually makes decisions for herself, though she is strong. She gets through a pregnancy, survives several dangerous vampire encounters, and does speak her mind. However, how strong she is is up for debate. All of her decisions are rooted at Source Edward, and she only conquers her fears because of him. Instead of being a strong, independent person, she relies on him constantly. Sorry if this causes any debates; I just feel like this is one of the reasons people do not like her. Famous female characters in books do not do everything for one boy and make decisions based on their lifelong morals and beliefs. Is it really love if Bella changes everything she previously believed to be with Edward? I mean, it is fine she became a vampire. But she did dangerous things in the second book just to get closer to him. Is this a good example for real people? That you will be suicidal if it means seeing the person you love when they are not there in person? I am afraid I have strayed from the original question. To answer it, I will say both yes and no. Bella does strong things, but only for Edward. The reason why people do not think she is strong is because of this. The best strong female characters in English literature are independent and are often the rescuers and not the women being rescued. People become attached to characters who can survive on their own, but most real people are not like that. Bella is a realistic, boring, teenage girl who relies on her boyfriend. Bella represents the majority of society. They can be strong if they have a good enough incentive. I hope I answered your question if you have made it this far.
Exactly. Independence, hello?
Maya wrote: "Exactly. Independence, hello?"That is exactly what I think. The only time Bella can be strong is when Edward has her back. Whenever he is not there for her, she just falls apart.
I don't think Bella is a weak character, but neither do I thing she is a very strong character. She is strong in many ways, such as, she is a fighter when it cones to her family, friends, and her daughter. But it is true that everyone had to do everything for her, because she is a normal teenager who fell in love with a very abnormal guy. So she may have many flaws, but that is what makes her more relatable character. Bella is like any other teenager, I mean what would a normal girl do if she fell in with a vampire? She would be dependent on her vampire boyfriend to defend her she can just fight a freaking vampire on her own!
Olivia wrote: "Nikki wrote: "I don't think Bella is a weak character, but neither do I thing she is a very strong character. She is strong in many ways, such as, she is a fighter when it cones to her family, frie..."Thank you at least now I know I am the only one who thinks Bella's character evolved into a more stronger character when she turned into a vampire.
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What she believes and what we're told are two different things. We're told she's absolutely beautiful and has no more than five boys after her within the first half of the book. If Meyer was going for the girl next door type when she thought of Bella, she described the complete opposite when she made up Bella.
Heidi wrote: "I guess one could see it that way but I don't. "
And that's all well and good, perfectly fine.
I don't think she really had any plans after high school, other then to be with Edward.
Which is exactly what I said, but okay. Glad we agree on this.
Edward always wanted to please Bella, do you truly think he applied for college with the thought process "I'm only doing this so she will not get her way and be unhappy". Because to me, that is crazy. I know the road to hell is paved with the best of intentions, but I certainly do not think that is his though process.
Whatever his thought process, it's not his decision. It is so far from his decision that the thought and thus what he did shouldn't have been a thought to ever be born. If she wants to laze around after being turned then that's her decision. He doesn't get to put in college applications with the strict, direct intent of stopping/delaying her from being turned. That's exactly why he did it and that's not okay and what's worse is that Bella wasn't strong with him on that topic, just thought that she'll become a vampire earlier than he planned so that she didn't have to attend college.
And the getting married thing again, wasn't a huge stretch. Do you believe Bella never ever , even 100 years down the line wanted to get married to Edward? Is it such a stretch to compromise with someone you love?
They didn't compromise on the topic of marriage. Bella clearly wasn't ready yet but she was willing to spend eternity with him, why do they need rings on their fingers to signify it even more when she doesn't want to yet? It's not the matter of me seeing it as wrong because I believed that Bella never wanted to be married, but with a commitment stronger than it about to happen, why does Edward need to force her into marrying him with it being his way of her turning, or no way at all? He told her that she would absolutely not be turned if she didn't marry him. He would forbid everyone else from doing it, he told her that. This is not compromising, this is giving in to unfair demands.
When she was walking down the isle to get married, her dad had to almost hold her back from bolting down the isle to Edward. She was excited and happy to be getting married once she saw him. (yes I know we females can be fickle things)
I know you probably meant this as being snide or snotty, but I assure you I'm not fickle. So this mocking generalization wasn't really needed. Her reaction between then and now isn't really the topic here, not to me at least. Why did she have to marry on his demands is what I'm talking about. It doesn't make it okay to me that when the actual marriage was happening that she was happy with it, just like when Edward made her go to prom on her broken leg, she wasn't happy with it but had a nice time. Or when he forced her to have a birthday party even though she didn't want to and ended up having a nice time (till she cut herself). It's Edward having to force her to do things his way that's concerning, her being complacent with it in the end doesn't eradicate her hesitancy or any complaints she had in the beginning.
Your comment is REALLY long, so I'm breaking mine into two posts.