Twilight
discussion
Am I the only one thinks Bella is a strong character??
I have to give you a point for why she loves him, there isn't a clear reason in the books other than his looks. But the four headed sea dog was used to show the ridiculousness of it, but I see it only worked to show how much like my English teacher I've become.
Bella's first real love, which was passionate and impulsive, along with her closest friends left. Leaving her to live alone in the completely mundane world with nothing special about it (she doesn't know about Jacob yet) and friends that she isn't close to at all in a town she hates.
She doesn't feel she can talk to her dad about this so after almost isolation she goes a little insane to. The one thing she wants is Edward who is only there when she's in danger. And yeah wanting what you can't or shouldn't have is completely crazy (I know because I do it) but Bella wants Edward.
I don't feel that Bella is a week character, sometimes she was a bit demanding and depended on others a lot. But she was brave through the whole series, putting her life out on the line. She would risk or give her life away to save someone else. I thought that she was a good character.
Well,although she's a character,I see Bella as a human being. And yes, doing crazy things just to hear our ex-boyfriend's voice is a little stupid, but we can't forget she considers herself a little stupid...Bella changed a lot during the entire saga as I said before on a comment. And that's what counts...
Taylor wrote: "Well,although she's a character,I see Bella as a human being. And yes, doing crazy things just to hear our ex-boyfriend's voice is a little stupid, but we can't forget she considers herself a littl..."Yeah, I agree with Taylor's view. She's human and she's changed. (More that species wise!)
I think this is how I'll argue it from now on :)
i think she is a strong character.Yes she went through hard times were she looked weak but only because she thought edward would never come back.like if you would be nice and calm when you thought someone so hot would never come back.the only reason she relies on jacob is because everyone needs a friend who they can rely on but after some time they fell in love with each other.also she was almost killed like umm... 10 times by vampires and still hangs out with them i would like to see you do that.so people STOP CALLING HER WEAK GOSH*
Meg wrote: "I think Bella is a very strong character. True, she is head over heels in love with Edward but that requires strength of its own. If you have ever been in love - you know that it requires an extrao..."i totlly agreee oh and when she was in the transformation she didnt scream or show any sign of weakness because she didnt want edward to worry
Lauren wrote: "Bella is anything but strong. She is centered around the boy (if you dont believe that then maybe you need to to re read the books) she is weak, and depressed and lets her boyfriend control her without even trying to stand up for herself! I personally believe that if Bella was strong the book would be ten times better! Then of course it would be a completely different story! "Ok. Tell me, is liking or loving someone weak? Maybe you need to reread the books again, when in the books did Bella not stand up for herself? When in the books does Edward do something she doesn't like and she goes along with it without saying anything along the lines of this is BS? I can think of the car incident where she tells him its BS and ends up seeing Jacob anyway. Now if she were as centered around a boy and weak as presumed, she would do everything he said without complaint, challenge and certainly not defy him.
Heidi wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Bella is anything but strong. She is centered around the boy (if you dont believe that then maybe you need to to re read the books) she is weak, and depressed and lets her boyfriend ..."I agree :)
I think that bella is weak she is not really a girl you can look up to or want to be if you do want to be her because she is in a love triangle with a hot vampire and a werewolf but I do have to say that I love bella in breaking dawn . she was strong and everything was not about Edward .
I agree with sammie.
I would have to agree with Sammie because Bella was a strong character in breaking dawn!!
Only when she was a vampire, lol. That says a lot about her self esteem as a human.
I think Bella is just normal. (As normal as vampires and werewolves are.) And we do learn that mates have a much stronger connection as vampires. I think Bella's depression when Edward left was more of a side effect of that connection. She was mated to a vampire as a human and I think that the abandonment was too much for a human to take.
Then why wasn't Edward as devastated as Bella?
Kasabuta wrote: "Then why wasn't Edward as devastated as Bella?"He was.
i think bella is strong, yes she fell for a guy.. but look what all she went through to be with him, and she had a baby, that almost killed her.. alot of people would have not stuck around.. and i like my husband the way bella loved edward.. if we were to split.. i dont know what i would do.. so yes bella is a strong character.. she is more so in the books then the movies
Mickey wrote: "Kasabuta wrote: "Then why wasn't Edward as devastated as Bella?"He was."
To the point where he was risking his life to do risky stunts? Did he hear her voice like she had heard his?
Kasabuta wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Kasabuta wrote: "Then why wasn't Edward as devastated as Bella?"He was."
To the point where he was risking his life to do risky stunts? Did he hear her voice like she had heard his?"
Kinda, yeah. He went to go die via sparkling and when she came and pushed him out of the light and under shade he thought that she was a hallucination.
Jharice wrote: "Jordan wrote: "I don't really understand why people call her a Mary Sue character. Mary Sue pretty much means perfect. And I bet nobody here would say Bella is perfect. I understand a lot of what m..."I like the way you put this. Sometimes we evaluate books based on the characters, the prose, the use of literary tools such as foreshadowing, etc. However, it's ok to just like a book for the story PLAIN & simple. If you liked the books, great. However, if you feel Bella is a weak role model for young teen girls, don't let your daughters read the books OR, let them & discuss why!
Jesse wrote: "Kasabuta wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Kasabuta wrote: "Then why wasn't Edward as devastated as Bella?"He was."
To the point where he was risking his life to do risky stunts? Did he hear her voice like..."
This was after when he thought she was dead though. The last time I read this book was about 5-6 years ago, so if you can provide me with some examples, that would be awesome.
Kasabuta wrote: "Jesse wrote: "Kasabuta wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Kasabuta wrote: "Then why wasn't Edward as devastated as Bella?"He was."
To the point where he was risking his life to do risky stunts? Did he hear ..."
I don't know what proof from the book you want. You asked if in his devastation did he do risky stunts like Bella and I said yes and when. What else do you want? Can you elaborate on what you mean so that it can be clearer?
I'm not asking you specifically. It just seems that Mickey says that there's evidence that he suffered the same amount of depression as Bella had. But there doesn't seem to be any evidence to support this?I'm just wondering if there was any evidence that Edward suffered the same depression that Bella had. Not asking for anything stupid that he had done during that time they were apart. Just something that showed that he did I guess?
she's one of those strongest charecters on books.Living for loved ones is much more difficult than anything else and bella survived everything for Edward (even his absence)
Marilyn wrote: "I'm not asking you specifically. It just seems that Mickey says that there's evidence that he suffered the same amount of depression as Bella had. But there doesn't seem to be any evidence to support this?"There was plenty of evidence in the book, if you read it.
That he was wasn't over her in his own words: "I was thinking of you, seeing your face in my mind, every second that I was away." (pg 510 in hard cover) and "I'm not as strong as you give me credit for....Right and wrong had ceased to mean much to me; I was coming back anyway. Before Rosalie told me the news, I was already past fighting to live through one week at a time, or even one day. I was fighting to make it through one hour. It was only a matter of time-and not much of it-before I showed up at your window, and begged you to take me back." (p, 514) Another excerpt: "When you were gone...everything went black....And there was no reason for anything." (514) "There was no distraction from the...the agony. My heart hasn't beat in almost ninety years, but this was different. It was like my heart was gone-like I was hollow. Like I had left everything that was inside of me here with you." (515) These are all things that Edward said. There's also this exchange between Bella and Edward after Bella told him about the risky behavior. "You were better at it than I was," he told me. "Better at what?" "Surviving. You, at least, made an effort. You got up in the morning, tried to be normal for Charlie, followed the pattern of your life. When I wasn't actively tracking, I was...totally useless. I couldn't be around my family-I couldn't be around anyone. I'm embarrassed to admit that I more or less curled up into a ball and let the misery have me." He grinned, sheepish. "It was much more pathetic than hearing voices..." (528).
What evidence is there that he wasn't as devastated?
yep its a total devastated LOVE story
Vanathi wrote: "yep its a total devastated LOVE story"
You mean...lust story?
You mean...lust story?
Never.by god how canTWILIGHT be a lust story.
Maggie wrote: "Ok.... When Edward left she basically tried to kill herself..How the hell is that a strong character? A strong character is someone who sets a good example for girls, someone who if compared to, wo..."I disagree that a strong character has to be someone who sets a good example. Anna Karenina, Scarlett O'hara (Gone With the Wind) and Cathy (Wuthering Heights) were all strong characters but they most certainly do not set good examples.
I have read the book, Mickey. It's just not important enough as details to remember after all these years. What makes you think I haven't read the book? Because of my lack of dedication to remembering the little things?True, that Bella isn't a good example. But, with the way Bella is protrayed it's really a double edged sword. With most of us believing her to be a weak willed girl who was selfish in every way while others see her as a strong person.
Marilyn wrote: "What makes you think I haven't read the book? Because of my lack of dedication to remembering the little things?"No, people assume you didn't read the book because you ask silly questions that someone who read and comprehended the books would know. Like for example you asked "It just seems that Mickey says that there's evidence that he suffered the same amount of depression as Bella had. But there doesn't seem to be any evidence to support this?"
And when given evidence that supported her claims, you say that you don't remember the little things. It makes it look like you didn't read the book, or that you don't know what your talking about.
It's a little thing because Meyer didn't really make it seem like it was any bigger. She spends the entire book emphasising just how much Bella suffered. Once we got to the end, Edward gets what, only a handful of pages explaining how he had suffered? By comparison, it is "a little thing" to me.I read the book a good 5 years ago, do you really expect me to remember every single little thing that happens in the book? Is it really a silly question? I also like how you insinuated that I can't comprehend the book because of my inability to remember anything from ages ago.
Well, excuse me if I don't have the same drive as you do to read a book I'm not fond of multiple times. Excuse me for not remembering something from a good 5 years ago. Excuse me for asking "silly questions".
Its not so much weak that I find Bella. I find her very desperate. Her whole life and existance revolves around Edward and the Cullen family. I find her character to be very immature and desperate. I did enjoy reading the book, but I would never call myself a die hard Twilight fan. If I read it when I was 13, I probably would have loved it. But I didn't - I was 21 when I read the book and I definitely outgrew it, and Bella's immature, selfish, bratty character. Sorry to all the fans out there - I'm not trying to offend.
Marilyn wrote: "It's a little thing because Meyer didn't really make it seem like it was any bigger. She spends the entire book emphasising just how much Bella suffered. Once we got to the end, Edward gets what, only a handful of pages explaining how he had suffered? By comparison, it is "a little thing" to me."That's typical first person narrative there. The book is told from a certain person's point of view. If she wasn't around a person during a certain time period, it's only logical that we would not be getting up-to-date bulletins on how this character felt, because she herself is not getting that information. We see things through her eyes, which means that a closer reading is needed to "fill in the blanks". There is a lot of evidence that Edward was as devastated as Bella during the breakup. I didn't even bring up what Alice said about it, because I figured what Edward said was more than enough.
It's important, when in a discussion about a book, to know something about the topic being discussed. If you're on a book site, it's standard to have read and understood the book so you can contribute intelligently to the discussion.
Well then, I'm sorry for offending you for my lack of intelligence when discussing Edward's side of the story and that asking for examples was totally stupid of me.Lol, intelligent discussion on a heavily flawed book.
Maggie wrote: "No offense, but Marilyn is contributing to the discussion just as much as you are. It doesn't matter how long ago you read it, if I say that Bella is a depressed immature girl who either a wants have sex or b be turned into a vampire....even though I read it when I was 12 like 4 years ago, my opinion still hasn't changed, and I still know facts. Sorry that not everyone retreads this garbage at every chance they get like you."Marilyn's assertion was not that Bella is a depressed immature girl. If you read her posts, she was saying that Edward was not as devastated by the breakup. This is contradicted by the facts of the story. Some people, who remember the story, have pointed this out to her.
I do think it would be a better discussion if people could remember the facts of the story so others wouldn't have to constantly point out inaccuracies.
As far as evidence that Edward wasn't devastated, Marilyn has yet to show us that evidence. I've shown mine.
Look, I didn't enforce that he wasn't as devastated. I made it an open statement and presented it as a question so I could see if anyone would be kind enough to refresh my memory. I was just asking because I didn't care enough to look it up myself. If you're looking for another argument over something as trivial as this, Mickey then you are not going to get one.I see that you've presented your evidence and have no further comment on my side. If you want to pursue it even further, be my guest. But as far as I'm concerned , I've moved past that particular topic.
Maggie wrote: "No offense, but Marilyn is contributing to the discussion just as much as you are. It doesn't matter how long ago you read it, if I say that Bella is a depressed immature girl who either a wants to have sex or b be turned into a vampire....even though I read it when I was 12 like 4 years ago, my opinion still hasn't changed, and I still know facts. Sorry that not everyone retreads this garbage at every chance they get like you. "No offense Maggie, but where in the discussion did anyone say that you or Marilyn have no right to an opinion? You can say those things, and we can disagree with you.
Where the issue is, if I made a statement like Rosalie doesn't know anything about cars. Even thought it was "a little thing" in the book, you would/should know that she did know about cars.
BELLA AND EDWARD'S RELATIONSHIP MEETS ALL THE CRITERIA FOR THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHE IS NOT A STRONG CHARACTER. I AM IN SCHOOL FOR WOMEN AND GENDER STUDIES AND SHE IS THE MOST PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A WOMAN. NOT ONLY HIS HER RELATIONSHIP ABUSIVE BUT THIS BOOK IS TARGETING YOUNG GIRLS WHO ARE ABOUT TO REACH DATING AGE. THEY ARE UNDER THE WRONGFUL IMPRESSION THAT THIS IS HOW A LOVING RELATIONSHIP SHOULD LOOK LIKE.
Maggie wrote: "Scarlett wrote: "BELLA AND EDWARD'S RELATIONSHIP MEETS ALL THE CRITERIA FOR THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHE IS NOT A STRONG CHARACTER. I AM IN SCHOOL FOR WOMEN AND GENDER ST..."
I second that.
I second that.
each person has their own pblms but its how they respond to it at last. so BELLA did pretty well in surviving a heart break.i'd have chased Edward and killed him if it were me.
Heidi wrote: "Where the issue is, if I made a statement like Rosalie doesn't know anything about cars. Even thought it was "a little thing" in the book, you would/should know that she did know about cars."Because Rosalie liking cars had something to do with the overall story, right?
Marilyn wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Where the issue is, if I made a statement like Rosalie doesn't know anything about cars. Even thought it was "a little thing" in the book, you would/should know that she did know abou..."It's not the point of whether it was a major issue in the story or not. The point is that an inaccurate statement was made about something that happens the book. I'm inclined to agree that it's not the type of error that someone who supposedly read the book should have made. The excuse given was that it was read years ago and that detail was forgotten. That's fine, but I do wonder why someone who admittedly doesn't remember the story all that well was originally so adamant about what happens in the story in the first place. If you don't remember it, should you be presuming to discuss it so argumentatively with someone who does remember it? It's kind of like me telling my HS English teacher that he's wrong about The Catcher in the Rye and that there is no evidence in the story that Holden actually loves his little sister.....and then demanding that he prove it with textual evidence. Most people who have read the book don't dispute that "minor detail" because it is something that is very clear in the book.
Mochaspresso wrote: "Marilyn wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Where the issue is, if I made a statement like Rosalie doesn't know anything about cars. Even thought it was "a little thing" in the book, you would/should know that s..."
lol
This discussion is kind of getting off topic.
lol
This discussion is kind of getting off topic.
Scarlett wrote: "BELLA AND EDWARD'S RELATIONSHIP MEETS ALL THE CRITERIA FOR THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHE IS NOT A STRONG CHARACTER. I AM IN SCHOOL FOR WOMEN AND GENDER STUDIES AND SHE IS ..."Which fiction novel taught you every single thing you needed to know about love and relationships?
I didn't know such a thing was even possible. I learned that from my parents and from real life experiences. If there is one book out there that does it, please let me know because I would like to read it.
What is going on with parenting these days that has so many adults so scared for their daughters (and sons)? Talk to your kids!!! ...and let Twilight alone for those of us that do actually talk to our kids. I read "Endless Love" at the age of 12 and I somehow managed to not date boys who would try to burn down my house.
If your TWEEN is learning about love and relationships from Twilight rather than you, you've already screwed up somewhere and it might even be too late to fix it at this point. Bashing Twilight won't help. Young Johnny has probably already got his hand up her skirt under the lunch table at school....or in some schools, it may even be the teacher himself!!! TALK TO YOUR KIDS and don't wait to do it.
I'm sorry to sound so crass but I am really getting sick of reading about all of these poor impressionable young girls and women who are supposedly being damaged for life from popular novels. These poor stupid girls. Twilight sold millions of copies. Millions of girls got the wrong ideas from it? Really? I think some people are paranoid and would rather censor and child proof the entire world than actually talk to their kids.
Mochaspresso wrote: "Marilyn wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Where the issue is, if I made a statement like Rosalie doesn't know anything about cars. Even thought it was "a little thing" in the book, you would/should know that s..."Too long; didn't read. Move on, bud. This is getting off topic as Brooke said.
As I've said before, I'm not inclined to be as dedicated as you fans as to rereading a book I dislike for the sake of a silly argument. Especially since it has been a good amount of time since I've read it. If you want to pick at my mistake - to which I've already admitted - for the sake of feeding your egos or epeens, then go ahead. Feed. Your. Egos.
Marilyn wrote: "As I've said before, I'm not inclined to be as dedicated as you fans as to rereading a book I dislike for the sake of a silly argument."You only have to have read it once to know that Edward was as devastated as Bella during the breakup. If the book is so hazy to you and you are so disinclined to jog your memory, why make definitive statements about it on a thread where there are people who did read carefully enough to remember what happened? It seems like you're setting yourself up for being corrected, which, if this is how you want to spend your free time, it's your life. However, it annoys me when people (and there have been a lot of them)who haven't read the books and are getting their information from the movie or some blog or just pulling it out of the air claim I have no evidence for what happened in the books. That's a waste of my time. I don't find the conversation enriched by having people who can't remember major sections of the story pop up to give everyone their considered opinions.
I wonder who would more fit the accusation of using these posts to "feed [their] egos".
In an attempt to get this discussion back on topic...
Bella is not a strong character. Strong characters don't get huge, throbbing holes in their chests after their boyfriends dump them.
Bella is not a strong character. Strong characters don't get huge, throbbing holes in their chests after their boyfriends dump them.
libellule wrote: "This is a book discussion site, not an encyclopedia. If you want near encyclopedic knowledge, perhaps you should find a Twilight wiki."It shouldn't be too much to expect that people have read a book in a book discussion site.
I find it ironic that you are so insulting to Mochaspresso about her "argument" and yet you offer only very general platitudes about your own. I would work on my own "argument" rather than critiquing someone else's, if I were you.
My own opinion: as a lifelong reader, I've read all kinds of books and at no time was I restricted in what content was appropriate. I went through a V.C. Andrews phase when I was around 12 years old and have yet to commit incest. There is a grandmother in there who locks up her grandchildren in an attic for years. This did not make me believe that grandmothers are evil people in general. I have grandmothers and they're both sweet, nurturing, lovely people. Reading about a fictional grandmother did not change my perception of grandmothers as a whole.
As far as Twilight goes, I find nothing wrong with its portrayal of a relationship. Edward and Bella's romance was very loving and intense. If some people have it in their minds that a different version of love is better, let them seek out books that reinforce their own beliefs. I don't need guidance from others as to what is kosher.
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She may have moved from Forks on her own, but after that she was completely dependent after she met Edward. She strung Jacob around giving him false hope that there's a chance with him (which I see as selfish, especially in New Moon).
A little depressed you say? How is it a little depressed if she risked her life in potentially dangerous stunts just for the sake of hearing a voice of your ex-boyfriend who left you at least 5-6 months ago? And before that, she completely shut down. Considering how long they've been together (most likely less than a year) and the reason why Bella "loves" him so much is - "Edward, you're so beautiful." For her to grieve and mope around for almost as long as they've been together, that alone is just a terrible way to show "strength". Normal teenage relationships are like this, yet Bella never learned to move on.
Then no, I don't agree with you.