Questioning Society discussion
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What Happens When You Die?
As far as what sites on the internet you should use, look into websites that don't create a million hits when you type "_____________ website debunked" into Google.
GO READ every single one. You cannot explain away all of them. The mount of evidence is there. God also killed a nation of babies. That's moral too.
Mod
Ninja,
You did not answer the question I posed, you merely asked me another question. The answer to your question is yes, "hath never forgiveness" means that one will never be forgiven.
Now, can you please answer the question. How do you explain the internal contradiction of the Bible in post #368? "
My question doesn't really answer yours, I guess you are right. Sorry about that. Looking back, I misread what was written. So, here's the answer:
If you blaspheme the Bible or God, you likely do not believe in either, meaning that you have rejected it. If you reject God and His word, then your sins will not be forgiven. I'm not saying that they CAN'T be, but if you do not accept God, then they WON'T be. Does that answer your question?
Mod
Ninja wrote: "And now, I think we should all return to the original question (AGAIN): What Happens When You Die?"Well, I did give you a book suggestion. I really think it'll give you a lot of info.
Personally, I want to be plastinated.
This verse doesn't literally mean that snails melt. It's a reference to the trail that they leave behind when they move. How do you know this? Where in the bible does it say, "This is what I really meant by that." Christians claim to know when the bible should be taken literally and when it shouldn't, but there is no indication within the bible of how to do this. It seems to me that whenever someone points out something in the bible that can't possibly be true, or seems immoral, that's how you know it's not meant to be taken literally. In order to prove that the bible is perfect, you must first assume that the bible is perfect.
Sounds fun. I'm going to science, or donating everything if they get the organs in time.
Mod
No.
The text says that if a person blasphemes the Holy Spirit, he will never be forgiven. That means that if I say the Holy Spirit sucks and mean it, I can never be forgiven. Even if I change my mind later in life and accept Jesus and the Holy Ghost.
This is so because it is an unpardonable sin. That means I can never be pardoned for it.
However, the next passage says there are no sins that I can't be forgiven for.
These passages contradict one another. Do they not?"
They do not. It means that they cannot be forgiven so long as they continue to blaspheme and reject the Bible. However, should they choose to accept God and ask his forgiveness, then they will be forgiven.
Mod
Well, I did give you a book suggestion. I really think it'll give you a lot of info. "
I know you did :)
I want to go to some medical university so people can not only use me for science but steal me from where my corpse is being held and position me on the bleachers to freak people out!!
Mod
I want to be cremated, mixed in with cocaine and then snorted by strippers. To each his/her own."
Interesting........
So, what if you don't believe in sin?
They do not. It means that they cannot be forgiven so long as they continue to blaspheme and reject the Bible. However, should they choose to accept God and ask his forgiveness, then they will be forgiven.And how exactly do you know this, since it's not what's written in the bible? Is this the part where you simply invent some extra bible verses in your head to erase the contradiction? The bible says you "hath never forgiveness" if you blaspheme. It doesn't say, "hath no forgiveness until you accept Jesus." It says never.
From dictionary.com:
nev⋅er /ˈnɛvər/
–adverb
1. not ever; at no time.
2. not at all; absolutely not.
The only way to reach your conclusion that the verse doesn't actually mean what it says is to either find another verse that clarifies it (good luck) or to first assume that the bible has no contradictions and then twist the words to make them fit that assumption. The first has never been demonstrated for this verse, at least not to me, and the second is circular reasoning.
I want to go to some medical university so people can not only use me for science but steal me from where my corpse is being held and position me on the bleachers to freak people out!!
;)
(This is GoodReads, so there'd better be a few people who know what I'm referencing.)
BLACKLIST ONLINE STORAGEHate school blocks. D:
Lauren wrote: "BLACKLIST ONLINE STORAGEHate school blocks. D:"
Is photobucket blocked? That's hilarious! Especially since photobucket loves to censor stuff.
Nathan wrote: "Personally, I want to be plastinated.I want to be cremated, mixed in with cocaine and then snorted by strippers. To each his/her own."
*sniff* That's beautiful, man.
Charity wrote: "Jill, I'm going to guess Stiff?"That's a good one too. But since Ninja's asking about the afterlife, I suggested Spook, by the same author.
D'oh! I almost said that one, Jill. I have both on Mt. TBR.
Lauren wrote: "It's mean. D: I want the picture!"It's a picture of the severed hand from the medical student story from More Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark.
Charity wrote: "D'oh! I almost said that one, Jill. I have both on Mt. TBR."They're both excellent. I think you'll really enjoy them. I don't re-read non-fiction all that often (usually once is enough to get the info), but I enjoyed them both so much that I've re-read both.
I trust your recommendation. I always enjoy checking out what you've been reading.Have you read her book Bonk?
To answer the topic question, 'What Happens When You Die?'...I'm honestly not sure, but I'm more inclined to believe that your energy gets reabsorbed into other energy sources in nature. (Note: I'm not necessarily talking about reincarnation here. I'm not using 'energy' as another word for 'soul'.)
Charity wrote: "I trust your recommendation. I always enjoy checking out what you've been reading.Have you read her book Bonk?"
I haven't yet. It's on my to-read list. I've been meaning to bump it up to the top, but when it comes to books I'm like a kitten distracted by a shiny toy. I plan to read something, then I get distracted by a different book.
Like, the bugs eating your body get energy from you?
You and me both. And I read Nick Hornby's The Polysyllabic Spree where he talks about one of his books leading to another book because it was mentioned in the first book and that leads to wanting to read everything on that subject until a new subject pops up and excites an interest...and so on. Basically, a whole lot of books begetting other books (you know, like Solomon. ha!). I'm just glad I'm not the only one out there with literary ADD.
Lauren wrote: "Like, the bugs eating your body get energy from you?"Yes. And becoming food for plants. And nutrients entering the water sources. Of course, in this sense, it really depends on how you die and how your remains are 'disposed of'. I personally plan on being cremated. Then again, if I live to a ripe, old age before I die, there may not be too many options available for the deceased. People may have to be cremated or stored in mausoleums.
But, does energy ever really go away once it has existed? (Don't know, sincerely asking.)
No. Law of Conservation of Energy, or the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. I think. Basically, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only turned into other forms of energy. But, a little bit of energy is always lost as heat, so eventually all energy will become useless heat. But it never goes away.
See, there will be an eternity for me after all. :-) (Even if it eventually does become hot.)Thanks, Lauren.
:D Always glad to spread the know. Hot when the sun dies and consumes the Earth. >.> We want an afterlife to escape our mortality.
I guess I honestly don't spend a lot of time thinking about what happens after I die. I'm dead. Who cares?
Mod
But it never goes away"
THAT'S how global warming works! :P riiight
Mod
Ninja,
As Dan pointed out, that isn't what it says. So please explain how it means something different than what it says and how you know this. "
Any and every sin is unpardonable UNLESS you ask God for forgiveness. Until then, all sins go unforgiven.
Ninja wrote: "THAT'S how global warming works! :P riiight"Oh, dear. Is this another area about which you know nothing but claim to know something?
Mod
Oh, dear. Is this another area about which you know nothing but claim to know something?"
Haha, I was just making a joke! :p
"THAT'S how global warming works! :P riiight"How the hell is that global warming? Do you understand what those concepts are? >.> I can explain, if you want.
((and I know it was a joke now))
Mod
How the hell is that global warming? Do you understand what those concepts are? >.> I can explain, if you want.
((and I know it was a joke now))"
Because the energy becomes heat. Therefore there is just more and more heat being created as energy is used. While it is useless heat, it's still heat. And as you said, it never goes away.
But that's not the point. The Earth is not a closed system, it's an open system. The heat is only trapped here because of the atmosphere. If the atmosphere didn't trap so much heat, it would go into space.
Mod
But it does get trapped here. And where's all the heat going? Nowhere, so it causes global warming, of course! ;)
But the Earth is a open system. The heat we are trapping is coming from the Sun, not reactions.
Also, if the verse actually meant what you said it means, then why would blaspheming the holy ghost be singled out as unpardonable? It wouldn't. It would say all sins are unpardonable.Better yet, Matthew (as was his habit) dressed up Mark's sparse little statement still further until it became this beauty:
Matthew 12:31-32
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Jesus pretty much admits that he isn't One with the Trinity here, gee. I can speak against him and be forgiven! That's good to know, isn't it!
But the more interesting observation is that never not only means never (as Dan observed, and unforgivable mean not, actually, forgivable, but you can't even be forgiven in the next world. You can say "Jesus is a poopy-head." and Jesus might give you a chance after you die, but if you say "The Holy Spirit is a poopy-head" (Oops. Does writing it on the Internet count? Damn!) then you not only never can be forgiven in this world, you can't even be forgiven by Jesus in the next world.
The reason this sin is singled out, by the way, is that Jesus is pissed off, in context, because people argue that he has an "unclean spirit" because only a Devil can cast a Devil out of somebody. Luke and Matthew of course copied this verse from Mark, changed the context, added text to it so that it means something else in Luke, and is much more elaborate (sigh, as usual) in Matthew.
Interestingly, it is in The Gospel of Thomas (sayings of Jesus) fresh from the Nag Hammadi scrolls almost identically, but there it says you can be forgiven for blaspheming against the Father and the Son, but not the Holy Spirit.
Together they are actually evidence that if Jesus actually existed (a thing that is very much open to doubt) it is not unlikely that he said something very much like this. However, just what it was that he said we cannot tell, as we have three (four!) mutually contradictory versions of the same saying, each clearly modified by both the author and all those scribes in between. Maybe the entire encounter is myth, inserted to prove that Jesus was a miracle worker and being persecuted by the Pharisees, and Thomas merely quoted Mark (and changed it to make it more gnostic).
Maybe, maybe, maybe.
But don't worry, Nathan. Of one thing I am absolutely certain as far as never is concerned:
Ninja will never state that slavery is a moral evil. She will never actually answer any question that (if answered) forces her to acknowledge a contradiction in the Bible. She will never answer any of my questions at all (because they all force that exact confrontation). If she has to insert words that aren't there into the New Testament to make it come out "perfect", well, what's she doing that wasn't done by generations of scribes and redactors over some 1900 years?
rgb
Beautiful, rgb! I guess I now know the price I'll have to pay for having my 'The Holy Spirit is a poopey-head' bumper sticker...and it ain't $1.99.
LOL!!! No, I haven't seen that, yet. I'll add it to my list. I did recently watch Religulous though and enjoyed it.
Questioning Society
Books mentioned in this topic
Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies (other topics)Spook: Science Tackles the Afterlife (other topics)
The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History (other topics)
The Upanishads (other topics)
Actually? Humans do. That's why morality has changed so much over the years.
But I'm guessing you'd say morality comes from God. If that is so, I'd say that I'm more moral than God. I never think slavery is right. He does.