The Shadow Rising

[Adri]

I'm still in the first chapter of the book. But where's the prologue?! And what is the timeframe of this? I'm assuming it's after what last happened in the 3rd book. But so far, there's nothing to confirm that.

[Jack]

I think it's been a couple weeks.

[Adri]

So, I just finished chapter 9 and there is about to be some excitement happening in the Stone. Basically it seems like random pieces of information and peeks into daily life with the characters are being shared. It doesn't appear to me that anything substantial has occurred yet. All of the main characters are together again. Actually, the only person outside of Tear that I've also caught up with is Min. She will be staying at the Tower until the Amyrlin says otherwise.
Perrin and Faile are an item now. And Elayne is making moves on Rand...and apparently Nynaeve still has her heart set on Lan. I have to agree with Faile on requesting some facial hair on Perrin. I like a little scruff, lol...not a full beard, though. Also, it's now pretty obvious that Emond's Fielders are very conservative. But the outsiders are quickly corrupting them.
The separate attacks on Rand, Perrin, and Mat were crazy! I don't understand that idea of "bubbles of evil", though. Moiraine could be wrong, right?
So, Lanfear finally revealed herself to Rand. I hope this means that he will keep his distance from her since she's so evil! Also, she totally wants to be supreme. Is that her main motive for going after Rand? So that they can overthrow Baalzamon and the Creator? And then she could just kill Rand and be the ultimate evil overlord. Lanfear mentioned 3 other forsaken. I was pretty sure that Moiraine guessed the man that Rand killed was Sammael. However, Sammael has already been mentioned several times, so it was obviously not him. Do we ever find out who it really was? If it wasn't Baalzamon (which I know it wasn't) then it had to be one of the Forsaken, right?
Also, I've thought it was odd since the very beginning that Tam taught Rand about the void. As far as I know, Tam is an ordinary man and just uses the void as a means to focus when using his bow. And in the recent reading, Rand mentions that Lan uses a similar approach in his sword fighting. However, the void is absolutely essential to channeling. Egwene and Nynaeve had to be taught a similar method so that they could reach saidar. And Nynaeve still isn't even able to do that. She can only use the Power when she is angry. If Tam hadn't taught Rand about the void, would he even be able to channel at this point? It'd be a lot more hit and miss than it is now. And he'd probably be dead since he's already used it several times to save himself. Believing that Tam is an average shepherd who never guessed his (adopted) son would become the Dragon Reborn, I just find it very strange that he incidentally instilled an essential skill into Rand without knowing it.

[Jack]

The "insubstantial" character stuff is by far my favorite part of the series. And don't be fooled. There isn't a single chapter in the whole series that isn't important when it comes to character, plot, or theme. With a series that is so steeped in prophecy (where you basically know what is going to happen long before it does) the real magic isn't always the plot. It's for this reason I can't read a lot of YA or other Fantasy/SF, because I think a lot of readers confuse "action boom boom bang" with "good" so that is usually what gets published. I think of Wheel of Time more on the level of the old Russian writers like Tolstoy or Dostoevsky. Where it's all about the internal workings of the world and the people in it rather than "Let's fight some orcs now!" if you know what I mean. Come book 11 when all the separate plotlines start wrapping up and tying together, I started to really, really miss the chapters where the characters were just sitting around planning. Man, do I want to read this series again!

Not a full beard? Really, Adri? REALLY? This isn't the magical land of GQ magazine.

Moiraine isn't necessarily wrong but at that point she's a little off base. The following isn't really a spoiler but you may want to avoid: (view spoiler)[The bubbles of evil are actually places where the Pattern is coming undone because of the DO's ever strengthening touch. Basically, reality is coming undone and it happens more around ta'veren. (hide spoiler)]

Ba'alzamon. You will find out more about who this was and why they did what they did as the books go on. Not a major spoiler but this is who it is/was: (view spoiler)[Ishamael, the other guy from the prologue. (hide spoiler)]

Tam was a soldier and fought in the Aiel War, and he values the void as a sort of meditation. I think that Rand would be further behind if Tam hadn't taught him, but he'd still be able to channel, especially after Lan's teachings.

What do you know about Tam and how he got Rand?

It's not hat Nyneave can't do the visionary stuff, it's that she has a block and can only access the OP when she's angry.

[Adri]

Jack, you keep saying this stuff about action and explosions. But I don't think you are actually understanding why the books bore me sometimes. It's not that I need the action and excitement. I just need the story to move along. I need there to be forward movement in the plot. I know you think that a good book doesn't depend upon the plot, but I disagree with you. The story is the whole reason that I read a book.
Also, I am certainly entitled to my opinion. Faile wants Perrin to wear a beard for aesthetic reasons, and he only keeps it because she likes it. :-P
Even if Rand still would have learned about the void from Lan, I don't think he would be at the place he is without having that foundation for his dad.
I don't know that much about how Tam got Rand. Only tidbits of information have been shared sporadically through each book.
And I disagree about Nynaeve. It seems that she could never reach that place of emptiness or form the bud. She tried until she got so frustrated that she became angry and suddenly she could channel. All 3 of the girls are under the impression that at this point, Nynaeve can only touch saidar when she is upset.

[Jack]

What do you consider forward movement?

[Adri]

Forward movement would be lateral progress. The characters need to grow and develop and the story needs to move toward a conclusion. So far in this book, the only important things (to me) that have occurred are the bubbles of evil (which was exciting) and Lanfear revealing herself to Rand (not eventful, but important). Everything else has been catching up or minute details.

[Adri]

Alright, I'm still enjoying this book. But not as much as I did book 3. I really liked seeing Mat's encounter in the ter'angreal. And he just went through a second one and couldn't understand that it didn't work the same way. I can understand him thinking they were similar. But it seems he should have grasped sooner that this was different. These boys are all so impulsive! But they do a lot of thinking, too. Maybe impulsive is the wrong word. Mat is probably the only impulsive one. The other boys just react emotionally. Even Rand has a lot more trouble setting his emotions aside than he did when we first met.
Everyone has split up now. I'm sure that Elayne is going to figure out how she knows Thom very soon. And it's interesting to me that women who can channel, yet aren't Aes Sedai keep being discovered. I wonder why Lan and Rand requested that the thief catcher go with the girls? I agree with them that he can't be trusted-especially around the black Ajah. I think he wants to make it up to the girls, but why does he think that another encounter will be any different?
Perrin has entered the Ways. I wonder if he will run into any problems or if it will be uneventful. I think that Perrin's plan of keeping Faile away is a pretty typical response of male characters (if not men in general). They always think that they can protect the girl by telling her that nothing has been real. But girls fight for things that they believe in. It'd be better for everyone if they just told the truth. I'm looking forward to learning what has happened in Emond's Field since we left it.
I'm also interested in learning more about dream walking. I wonder if Egwene and Aviendha will be on similar training paths with the Wise Ones. Rand's flashbacks that show the Jenn Aiel are eerily similar to the Tuatha'an. Maybe they are the same people...