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Intelligent Design is not science. One of the most important aspects of scientific testing is the ability to falsify the test. How do you falsify "God did it"? Intelligent Design, if taught at all, should be taught in philosophy or religion class, not science. Science is the study of the natural world. An intelligent designer, living outside the natural universe, would be supernatural by its very nature.Also, Expelled mischaracterised Richard Dawkins and other proponents of evolution. It didn't provide any good arguments for Intelligent Design being taught other than the whiny "We want all sides heard" crap. Science is not a democracy.
Intelligent design DOES NOT mean God. Heck, it could mean aliens! I mean, if you watched the movie, one of the guys believe we could have come from crystals. So what if aliens, weird as it may sound, planted us here or something. I'm not saying it HAS to be God, just a higher being of some kind.
And like I said, there is no reason we can't teach both in schools, Intelligent Design and Darwinism. I want my kid to be free to think and choose what they want to believe, not be shunned for suggesting something different.
You can believe we came from nothing that somehow exploded ("Big Bang") and turned into sludge, which then eventually somehow became what we are today, yet you can't accept a THEORY that there may be someone else out there who put us on this Earth?
NinjaFanpire wrote: "Intelligent design DOES NOT mean God. Heck, it could mean aliens! I mean, if you watched the movie, one of the guys believe we could have come from crystals. So what if aliens, weird as it may soun..."You're missing the point, though. We lack evidence for an intelligent designer. Science requires evidence. And lets be honest here, the Intelligent Design movement is fueled by the (often extremely) religious in this country as well as other countries. Its main seat of power, however, is in the U.S. We can claim it can be space aliens all we want, but at the end of the day, we can trace the Intelligent Design movement, not to crystal power or space aliens, but to the religious right.
NinjaFanpire wrote: "And like I said, there is no reason we can't teach both in schools, Intelligent Design and Darwinism. I want my kid to be free to think and choose what they want to believe, not be shunned for sugg..."Fine. Teach Intelligent Design in philosophy class. Or comparative religion. As hard as it is to believe, we do have those sorts of classes in high schools. But, and I will emphasize this for you, it is not science and therefore shouldn't be taught in a science classroom . How can you falsify it? What evidence is there for it?
NinjaFanpire wrote: "You can believe we came from nothing that somehow exploded ("Big Bang") and turned into sludge, which then eventually somehow became what we are today, yet you can't accept a THEORY that there may ..."You see, your misrepresentation of what evolution is indicates to me that you know absolutely nothing about it apart from what you were told, probably by a religious instructor masquerading as a science instructor. The Big Bang has nothing to do with evolution. That's the realm of cosmology and physics. And for the record, there is scientific evidence of a Big Bang. The study of the beginning of life on our planet, from basic self-replicating proteins (scientists are experimenting on these things, with some success), is called abiogenesis, and has nothing to do with evolution. Evolution is the study of how living creatures adapt and change over time. Or, as a friend of mine says, it's "the change in the allele frequency of populations over time". We have ample evidence of this. From the fossil record, to genetic testing and DNA, to actual real life examples of evolution happening (a form of bacteria has evolved that is capable of digesting nylon, for example).
If you're wanting to learn more about what evolution is and what evidence exists for it, here's a good website to get you started:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-i...
For the record, I'm currently in the planning stages of going back to school in order to study, you guessed it, evolutionary biology. It's a fascinating subject.
I took FOUR science classes in high school, so what I've been taught is what the school system is teaching me!
NinjaFanpire wrote: "I took FOUR science classes in high school, so what I've been taught is what the school system is teaching me!"And which science classes were they?
I took Bio I, Bio II, Microbiology, Human Anatomy and Physiology, and Chemistry. And that was just high school. Are you still in high school? Have you entered college? I'd recommend geology (an Evolution of the Earth class if they've got it), microbiology and immunology, general chemistry, genetics (I really suggest this one), and at least a general physics or astronomy class.
I'm in college right now.I took Bio I and II, oh gosh....I know the teacher, I just can't remember the class. Argh, something Science. And another I just cannot remember, must have been the one Freshman year. Just because I don't remember the name of the class doesn't mean I don't remember what I was taught.
Dang, the one is on the tip of my tongue!
Oh, and if you're interested in learning more about science and scientific inquiry, there is a community for it on GoodReads:http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1...
It's not as fast paced as this community (it doesn't get new posts even every day) but the people on there come from a wide variety of scientific backgrounds, so if you wanted to you, could pose any questions you have to them.
NinjaFanpire wrote: "I'm in college right now.I took Bio I and II, oh gosh....I know the teacher, I just can't remember the class. Argh, something Science. And another I just cannot remember, must have been the one ..."
Well, what were you taught? What was the focus of the class? That might help narrow it down. :)
Oh, and, before we get into the whole "evolution is just a theory" chestnut that critics of it often like to bring out, I want to point out that gravity is "just a theory" as well. Proofs exist only in maths. Also: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolu...
Jill wrote: "Oh, and, before we get into the whole "evolution is just a theory" chestnut that critics of it often like to bring out, I want to point out that gravity is "just a theory" as well. Proofs exist onl..."Ya, so what if gravity is a theory? It still gets taught in schools, doesn't it? As a fact, right? Can we really prove that air exists either? I mean, we can feel it, right? Well, we can see the effects of gravity. And we can see darkness, and light. But how do we know those really do exist? I can't touch light. I can't smell it, taste it, hear it. But I can see it.
I can see light.
I can feel wind.
I can see the effects of gravity.
But is there really hard proof for any of these things?
NinjaFanpire wrote: "Jill wrote: "Oh, and, before we get into the whole "evolution is just a theory" chestnut that critics of it often like to bring out, I want to point out that gravity is "just a theory" as well. Pro..."I told ya: proofs exist only in maths. Also, something being a scientific theory doesn't preclude it being taught as a fact. If we have ample enough evidence for it, it's taught as a fact. We can scientifically study wind, light, gravity and evolution.
You should read the Talk Origins links I posted. They'll give you a ton of information.
Jill wrote: "I told ya: proofs exist only in maths."So if we can't prove it with math, it doesn't exist?
Jill wrote: "NinjaFanpire wrote: "Well, what were you taught? What was the focus of the class? That might help narrow it down. :)"I want to say Economic Science, but that just doesn't sound quite right.
We dissected owl pellets and had to make a power point presentation about the different parts of the earth. You know, like the terrain. Everyone got a different part (desert, rain forst, etc.)
NinjaFanpire wrote: "Jill wrote: "I told ya: proofs exist only in maths."So if we can't prove it with math, it doesn't exist?
"
Actually, I think some physicists would say yes to that question.
I think you're putting too much importance on the word "proof." We have evidence. Lots and lots of evidence. Evidence is what you need when it comes to science.
NinjaFanpire wrote: "Jill wrote: "NinjaFanpire wrote: "Well, what were you taught? What was the focus of the class? That might help narrow it down. :)"I want to say Economic Science, but that just doesn't sound quit..."
That sounds like Earth Science, maybe. Which was, in my experience, a kind of overview science course. It might have been Ecological Science or Environmental Science too.
That's the one. Environmental Science! And one other one I just cannot put my finger one. I took what was required, I thought it was four, maybe Science was just three. But I know I took Bio I and II as well.
That's good. If the teachers taught you properly, you should have a sound base with which to enter the college science courses. If you can, I do recommend the list I gave above. If you're not a science major, it's probably more than you need credit-wise, but the beauty of being an undergrad is flexibility. All of those topics should give you a sound scientific background. Better than the average person, anyway.
Jill wrote: "That's good. If the teachers taught you properly, you should have a sound base with which to enter the college science courses. If you can, I do recommend the list I gave above. If you're not a sci..."I don't know if the community college in my small town even offers all of those courses!
But thank you for the advice. I'll probably just take what I need. Not a science major.
NinjaFanpire wrote: "I don't know if the community college in my small town even offers all of those courses! "Well, then take your basics at community college, get good grades, and then move up to a four year university. Lots of people do that. I work at a four year university and the catalog we have of science classes is quite impressive. Tons to choose from. :)
NinjaFanpire wrote: "But thank you for the advice. I'll probably just take what I need. Not a science major."Good luck. Try to diversify the science credits you do have to take. It's a great help to see how the scientific method works in each discipline. :)
While it is kind of documentary type, it is scattered with humor to keep it interesting. It talks about science. And how we do not have freedom of science.
Basically the point of the movie is to point out that scientists are not free to think, to have new ideas. Some scientists who even suggest the theory of intelligent design have lost their jobs. Now, I'll let you know that I am a Christian and I do believe in God. However, I believe that people have free right to believe what they want to believe. I believe that Intelligent Design, as well as Darwinism should be taught. It gives people a choice.
Just like people have a choice to be a different religion than I am. If someone wants to be Jew, Mormon, Atheist, or Catholic, etc., then they can be. I respect their decision to be a different religion, just as I don't agree with Darwinism but respect that people are free to believe in it. Just as they should be free to be able to believe in Intelligent Design if they want.
We have freedom in this country to have whatever religion we want. So why shouldn't we be free to have different ideas? We have freedom of thought, sure, that can't be controlled. So we can feel free to believe and think what we want as long keep it to ourselves and shut up about it.
Is this right? What do you think about it?