Buddy read an Inspector Morse?

[Penny]

the comment came from Lewis Carroll 'you're old father William' - where he says 'but now that I'm perfectly sure I have none' referring to his brain!

something like
You are old Father William, the young man said
and your hair has become very white
and yet you incessantly stand on your head
do you think at your age it is right?
“In my youth,” Father William replied to his son,
“I feared it might injure the brain;
But, now that I'm perfectly sure I have none,
Why, I do it again and again.”

[Bionic Jean]

Of course - lovely :)

[Diane]

Penny wrote: "Jean wrote: "Finished Death Is Now My Neighbor. Oh boy, those last two words made me go all wobbly. Am I going to hold it together for the final one? From what Leslie said, it's doubtf..."
I just finished this book as well. Have never read
a Colin Dexter before but I am definitely going
to seek out more of his books. Just loved it, the
way he and Lewis "nut" out the clues, sort of like
Wexford and Burden but Morse appears far more human
to me than Rendell's characters. I like the way
Morse quotes but sometimes gets the quotation wrong.

[Bionic Jean]

I'm part way through The Remorseful Day. When I saw someone had posted on this thread I got quite excited, as I kind of thought it might just fizzle out now, which does make me feel
forlorn :(

Diane - Yes Morse certainly has his vulnerable side, and that comes out increasingly more as the series goes on, until the final one.

[Leslie]

Has anyone been watching the Endeavour TV show? I am having some trouble connecting the character with Morse...

[Kay]

Just finished the last episode of Endeavour and what an ending!! Can't wait for the next series.

[Sandysbookaday (taking a step back for a while)]

Penny wrote: "the comment came from Lewis Carroll 'you're old father William' - where he says 'but now that I'm perfectly sure I have none' referring to his brain!

something like
You are old Father William, the..."
I used to have an anthology of Lewis Carroll's works while I was a child and absolutely adored it. Somewhere along my many moves, I have lost it. I can remember that poem though. I will have to scour the shops for another copy.

[Bionic Jean]

I've just rewatched all the "Endeavours" - both series as they broadcast them back-to-back over 2 days (I recorded them to watch.) They are excellent in their own right, I think. The attention to period detail is superb. But yes, there are only hints really of the character Morse was to become. It's not inconsistent, but I find I'm enjoying them in their own right, much as do the "Lewis" series.

By the way, there was a trailer for a new series of "Lewis" this Autumn too. Also "Foyle's War". Things are looking up ;)

[Penny]

Ann wrote: "I love Lewis even more than Morse but so far not that keen on Endeavour."

That's interesting Ann - what do you like especially about the Lewis series?
I have still yet to see Endeavor.

Yes Jean -its rather sad to end our very extended buddy read! But I am really pleased that some of us made it to the end! and along the way we got some others to join in too!

[Penny]

Ann wrote: "Could just be that Lewis is fresher in my memory! I like Hathaway and the slow burn relationship between Lewis and Laura."

yes Lewis and Hathaway are a good pair - I would like Lewis to be more strongly north-east in character to go along with Kevin Whately!

[Leslie]

Jean wrote: "I've just rewatched all the "Endeavours" - both series as they broadcast them back-to-back over 2 days (I recorded them to watch.) They are excellent in their own right, I think. The attention to p..."

Oh a new Foyle's War season! I had mixed feelings about the last season, post-WW2 when he ends up working for the Secret Service (or MIsomething or whatever it is called) -- I liked him better as a straight policeman.

[Bionic Jean]

Leslie - I agree. I'm not sure of the details for the new series. I do remember that a new Director General originally cancelled the whole series a while back, even though all the cast and everyone involved in making it wanted to continue! Then with a new appointment the decision was reversed, which is how we got the Secret Service series.

I hope to get a glimpse of the filming sometime when I visit my brother in Hastings. I know he had a chat with Michael Kitchen on the beach during a film break one time. Apparently MK is a lovely man - very down to earth and ordinary :)

Penny - yes. Must do another series some time when we've all had a bit of a break ;)

[C.J.]

Oh, this is good news -- a new set of Lewis AND Foyle! I'd gotten the impression it was the actors who didn't want to do any more. Kitchen's Foyle is SO low-key compared w/ e.g. his crazed Branwell Bronte; & Laurence Fox has shown up in several other parts lately.

I too like the Lewis-Hathaway relationship better than Morse-Lewis. The scriptwriters treat the contrast between their characters positively (each man makes a strong contribution) rather than negatively (one patronizes & exploits the other).

[Penny]

Carol wrote: "Oh, this is good news -- a new set of Lewis AND Foyle! I'd gotten the impression it was the actors who didn't want to do any more. Kitchen's Foyle is SO low-key compared w/ e.g. his crazed Branwell..."

I like your comment on the positives of the relationship in Lewis - I wonder if that's a sign of the times and we have become a bit jaded by a partnership where one is often right and the other wrong.

[Bionic Jean]

And that's an exaggeration produced by the TV series, isn't it Penny? Lewis gets there by sheer hard graft and tenacity! Morse goes up endless blind alleys in the books. How often do we find he says, "Lewis, you are a bloody genius!"? It's almost a catchphrase.

[Penny]

Jean wrote: "And that's an exaggeration produced by the TV series, isn't it Penny? Lewis gets there by sheer hard graft and tenacity! Morse goes up endless blind alleys in the books. How often do we find he sa..."

yes thats very true - Lewis is almost demoted (is that a word?!!) in the TV series - until he gets his own one of course! Trouble is Lewis often doesnt know just why he is such a genius!

[Bionic Jean]

LOL - yes you're right there Penny. He does a good job of dissembling sometimes. At first I thought it wasn't genuine of Morse either - just a kind of attempt at friendship, since the only true friends he had were Max and Lewis. In the end though, I think it was. Perhaps Colin Dexter wasn't sure at first either...

Demoted is definitely a word; the opposite of promoted. I personally like "rusticated", which is what would have happened to Morse if he hadn't left Oxford University of his own free will. It always sunds painful to me! :D

[Leslie]

Jean wrote: "LOL - yes you're right there Penny. He does a good job of dissembling sometimes. At first I thought it wasn't genuine of Morse either - just a kind of attempt at friendship, since the only true fri..."

I liked how Lewis tried (and succeeded!) in applying Morse's style of thinking in the last book...

I like "rusticated" too Jean - or being "sent down" -- both of which seem to imply that not being in the city of Oxford meant you were in the wilderness!

[C.J.]

I'm so glad to hear these comments -- a character in my mystery-in-progress, Zapped, just made a sniffy remark about rusticating, & I wondered if anyone still knows that fine old word!

[Bionic Jean]

Hahaha Leslie. Of course one always goes "up" to Oxford - or Cambridge - or London for that matter, even though they are all geographically in the South of England so at the bottom of the (Mercator) map... I'm afraid some of the residents there do still think of the rest of the country as - not quite the ticket don't you know? (Some. Not all!)

[Leslie]

Jean wrote: "Hahaha Leslie. Of course one always goes "up" to Oxford - or Cambridge - or London for that matter, even though they are all geographically in the South of England so at the bottom of the (Mercator..."

Ah, yes - I had forgotten that but it too implies that Oxford is "top dog" (to use an Americanism)!

[Bionic Jean]

Of course! There are continual arguments between Oxford and Cambridge as to who is the older academic establishment. (I hadn't realised "top dog" is American ;) )

[Penny]

Jean's right of course - that's a whole big debate about who is 'top dog' Oxford or Cambridge! Either way though its not London!

[Bionic Jean]

Or Durham, Penny, although perhaps it should be! ;)

[Penny]

Durham is gorgeous at the moment - into the final round of Britain in Bloom! I suppose a little city like ours needs a detective - George Gently is filmed around here but the books weren't located here. Vera is more Newcastle and Northumberland.

[Bionic Jean]

I didn't know that! Never seen them - do you recommend them Penny?

I seem to have slowed right down with Morse. He's still hanging in there, but has just gone to bed and there are ominous rumblings by Dexter - and only about 20% left, so I think it really must be curtains now :(

[Penny]

Jean wrote: "I didn't know that! Never seen them - do you recommend them Penny?

I seem to have slowed right down with Morse. He's still hanging in there, but has just gone to bed and there are ominous rumbling..."

yes - those curtains are starting to droop!!!
I havent read George Gently but I like watching it. It's Martin Shaw who is pretty much up there with John Thaw for me! He was Judge John Deed if you watched that series. We can always spot a few streets when we watch that one.
Vera is great - I love the books and think that the TV adaptation is very well done. Vera is deliberately obnoxious and is very good at annoying people (remind you of anyone?!!) I have also watched the TV version of Ann Cleeves Shetland series and liked that too although I personally prefer Vera. have you not come across them yet Jean? Its funny how some things just dont cross our personal radars isnt it?

[Bionic Jean]

I haven't watched any of these! Must try something though. At the moment there isn't any new series that I watch :(

[Bionic Jean]

Oh dear... *swallows hard*

[C.J.]

Penny wrote: " I have also watched the TV version of Ann Cleeves Shetland series and liked that too although I personally prefer Vera."

At the Left Coast Crime conference in March, Ann Cleeves showed the Shetland pilot (not yet aired in US) & mentioned that she was disappointed they cast an actor so different from the one in her books. I suspect the producers felt it would be too complicated to explain, in effect, a Spanish Scot.

Caroline Graham evidently felt the same about her Barnaby; the behind-scenes show about Midsomer Murders showed a sketch of her dark, burly, bushy-browed Barnaby, & a comment from the producer that he cast John Nettles because he was a hit on an earlier detective series.

I've been noticing that a number of classic British series detectives are heavy, but (aside from the late Richard Griffiths) never the actors who play them!

[Bionic Jean]

I'm currently having a ball watching the entire series of dramatisations of these novels! (The boxed set was given to me as a present :) ) So I popped back here to edit my comment 154, as I had misremembered the ending of that episode!

It show how good these novels are, that I still can't remember the ins and outs, even though we all read them so recently! I'm find I'm going through the same thought processes as I did before - or getting the wrong theories like Morse does - each time! LOL!

Hope you're all getting on OK, all those who read this :)

[Leslie]

Jean wrote: "I'm currently having a ball watching the entire series of dramatisations of these novels! (The boxed set was given to me as a present :) ) So I popped back here to edit my comment 154, as I had mis..."

Nice gift, Jean! I love John Thaw :)

I have been rewatching the follow-up series, Lewis. Once I got over (again!) the fact that this Lewis is pretty different than the one in the books - particularly the early books - I decided that this is almost as good as the original series.

[Bionic Jean]

I agree! They are nicely layered and as fiendishly complicated as Colin Dexter's originals. They put many detective series to shame! I think it was an inspiration to make his side-kick the intellectual, slightly troubled one (similar to Morse) as a nice complement to the more solid Lewis.

I do wonder what Dexter think of them. He is still around, a friend who lives in Oxford tells us, and glimpsed sometimes in the town centre. But he's increasingly frail-looking and in a wheelchair now.

Have you watched any of the "Endeavours", Leslie?

[Leslie]

Jean wrote: "I agree! They are nicely layered and as fiendishly complicated as Colin Dexter's originals. They put many detective series to shame! I think it was an inspiration to make his side-ki..."

I have watched several of them but the cinematography and mood are both darker than I prefer. And although there are glimpses of Dexter's Morse, they are seem labored - as if the writer stuck some characteristic of Morse onto someone else. Except for the episode that revolved around opera!

[Bionic Jean]

I remember that one as one of the better ones too. Otherwise, I have a feeling I am watching them partly out of nostalgia for the 1960's and also nostalgia for the character of Morse! Not in the same league as "Lewis" anyway.

And yes, darker both metaphorically and literally. I said to Chris at the time, why do dramatisations of that time insist on making everything so grubby and colourless? Wallpaper, decor generally, clothes etc are all filmed if not in actual sepias then in dingy greyish tones. Yet actually the late 60's was full of colour, whereas now fashion continues to be very conservative and black rules ... Even in the early part of the 1960's decade there was more colour than this!

[Leslie]

I have noticed that too! Perhaps the directors are so young that they confuse the look of old photographs with the look of real life? But even that is inaccurate, as by the 60s photography had advanced enough to avoid those sepia tones!

[Bionic Jean]

I think it's possibly a perception (prejudice?) that nothing could possibly ever have been vibrant and colourful then. It's similar to the idea that nobody ever used to think - this is often conveyed in current dramas depicting that time too. Or that sex was invented by the young (this seems to be common to every generation! LOL!

[C.J.]

Jean, thanks for reopening this discussion. I agree about the TV series, except in the original Morses it strained credulity that at least 1 lovely woman per episode had the hots for this sarcastic, patronizing codger. The Lewis series grew on me fast, especially because Hathaway did make a sort of kinder gentler (& sexier) Morse. But you're absolutely right about the Endeavour actor seeming like a graft.

I wanted to thank everybody who recommended The Wench Is Dead. I've started a monthly mystery book club at San Francisco's Mechanics Institute Library, & that's our May selection.

[C.J.]

Jean wrote: "I think it's possibly a perception (prejudice?) that nothing could possibly ever have been vibrant and colourful then. It's similar to the idea that nobody ever used to think - this is often convey..."

Jean & Leslie, I notice the darkness problem even more in movies set in the future. As if humankind has mastered jet-packs & time travel, but forgotten how to make light bulbs.

[Leslie]

Carol wrote: "Jean wrote: "I think it's possibly a perception (prejudice?) that nothing could possibly ever have been vibrant and colourful then. It's similar to the idea that nobody ever used to think - this is..."

LOL!!! It seems to be an "in" style but I dislike it intensely. It seems particularly in apropos (sp?) for police dramas -- where are the arc lights? Do the directors really think that the viewers are so stupid as to not notice that they are searching for clues in the dark or working in a lab/office with such dim light as to cause the typical person severe eye strain?

[Bionic Jean]

Hello again Carol! :)

And yes, LOL! You're right, the dim lighting happens in futuristic dramas as well! Sometimes at the cinema I've noticed and thought cynically that they are attempting to cover up any flaw in other-worldly sets etc., but nowadays with all the computer wizardly and CGI., that seems most unlikely. And yes, Leslie, I particularly noticed that in the "Waking the Dead" series (Trevor Eve and co (with him shouting everything at his "and co")) working on cold cases. Ultramodern office and lab, but working in the gloom with an occasional dimmed spotlight.

Fantastic choice for your book club - and best of luck with it, by the way. I would dearly love to be in a face-to-face group like that.

Here's my review for The Wench Is Dead in case you'd like to read it, Carol. I reviewed all 13 Morse novels in the end.

[C.J.]

Thanks, Jean! Good review. Wish you could join us!

[Bionic Jean]

Aw that is sweet of you, Carol - so do I! San Francisco Sounds very exotic to me! But then others envy my access to London ...

I am still chuckling over the phrase "mastered jet-packs & time travel, but forgotten how to make light bulbs" :D

[C.J.]

Well, I have to come to London this fall - just found out the RSC's Hamlet starring Benedict Cumberbatch will also feature 2 of my favorite actors, Ciaran Hinds & Anastasia Hille, as Claudius & Gertrude. The whole run is already sold out even though it doesn't open till the end of Aug.!

Meanwhile, you've encouraged me to try more Morses.

[Bionic Jean]

Looks good, Carol. If you get further in than Stratford, try London's Globe theatre if you've never been there. Try to go on a day when it doesn't rain though or you need to take your umbrella! The roof is open to the elements, just as it would have been in Shakespeare's day!

[Elizabeth]

Nobody can take John Thaw's place as Morse. We watch the shows on netflix and have read a couple books but with your encouragement will read more.

[Bionic Jean]

I'm currently watching an episode called "The Wolvercote Tongue". It is an early one in the boxed set, and you would think it was classic Colin Dexter getting into his stride, but actually, it has a very odd provenance! When Colin Dexter eventually wrote it up as a novel, he retitled it The Jewel That Was Ours

I've shared my review of this one here

[Guy]

Coming in probably way too late here but ... After watching all of the Inspector Morse episodes on Britbox, decided to read the books. Ordered a set of 13 on eBay and got going. Read through and completed "The Jewel That Was Ours" but several pages into the next one ("The Way Through The Woods"l) I had to give up on Morse. It's Colin Dexter's fault. I finally became too disgusted over the way every single woman in every book - from pre-teens to octogenarians -- was immediately obsessed with this pedantic, flaccid and shrewish old man. Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed Morse's character - it's the phony bodice-ripping and shallow characterizations of all of the women orbiting him that ruined these stories for me. Sad, really. Does make me wonder about Dexter ... P.S. I had to skip all those ridiculous 'hand-written" pages - couldn't read them. Really bad idea.

[C.J.]

My sentiments exactly!
That crotchety old goat, a babe magnet?

[Bionic Jean]

I agree, the early books are packed with misogynism, and I do give them a low rating and comment on this in my reviews. However, someone must have had a quiet word with Mr. Dexter, as he improved this aspect quite a lot if you read the later ones :)

Thanks for commenting Guy (and welcome back!) and C.J! It doesn't matter how much later it is than the original read; it's all relevant.