Foil & Phaser (The S&L Community Blog for SFF Writers)

[James]

Sean, the Foil & Phaser mock-up site looks great! Honestly can't come up with a single design critique off the top of my head. Really like the Writers Workshop age & the Private posting options. I agree with Louise that we could probably start setting some ground rules for the organization of the group. Any thoughts on organizational, guideline stuff moving forward? If folks have some non-Anthology-submitted stuff to work with we could probably kick this off pretty quick. Thanks for all the effort!

[Sean Lookielook]

Louise wrote: "Looking good. So, what's the plan for how its going to work? Set number of posts a week/month? Or organising people into workshop groups?

I suppose it depends how many people get involved."

The current plan is to start with a small number of authors, perhaps six or so, and then add more gradually. Every new author would start off on their first post at the lowest level of access, requiring moderator approval. Once they have demonstrated that they are who they say they are and can manage without supervision, their site privileges can be increased.

The structure of the WordPress blog allows individual authors of group blogs to publish, edit, and delete their own posts. I see no reason to impose a schedule on them from outside unless we find they are monopolizing the site or are stepping on one another's toes. If that happens we can reduce or remove that author's access. Similarly, authors who do not post anything for an extended period would be removed after receiving notice. Alternately, we could set up a schedule and have authors apply for fixed time slots spaced equally apart. Authors would then schedule their posts to publish automatically.

Workshops would be organized in much the same way as they are on the forums. An author would post the nature of the project and that they are looking for participants. Interested parties could submit email addresses via the contact form and be contacted directly with a password or a link to the file. Group members do not have to be registered authors or even Goodreads members to participate. It would be entirely at the discretion of the author.

I will be doing a draft of the site guidelines, etc. this weekend. I would like to get the site running by next week.

[A.L.]

Louise wrote: "I'd never thought of Google Docs for beta readers - that's a great idea. Of course, it wouldn't help me find those elusive beta readers, but the concept is a good one. As someone who doesn't live n..."

The problem with google docs is that although it is good for group writing it can be unstable. I used to use it a lot but had no end of problems.

How about dropbox?

[A.L.]

Ok I followed the blog, looks good. Signed up too. I can link to my own blog as well for my pathetic number of followers to enjoy:)

I have a few ideas for short stories which might need pulling apart and am happy to read and tell people if they suck or not:)

[Laurel]

Here's the medievalist coming in (I had to research with fencers in the Society for Creative Anachronism for my books because I'm a SCAdian SCIENTIST -- not a fighter), but you DO realize that foils are NOT PERIOD, right? They are way too light for anything other than sport fencing where you are not actually trying to hurt anyone.

That's why I use SCHALAGERS which are a multi-purpose German variation on the Italian RAPIERS that we typically see in the genre.

Ergo, I vote against all three choices and vote for SCHALGERS AND LASERS.

[A.L.]

Well as phasers aren't real I think we put this one down to willing suspension of disbelief:)

[A.L.]

Please let me know when things are official, I would like to be involved. Now my second book is out and I am glaring at Book 3 trying to hope it writes itself I should have more time.

[Laurel]

Alexandra wrote: "Well as phasers aren't real I think we put this one down to willing suspension of disbelief:)"

but there is only so far that a person will suspend disbelief. You cannot, for example, start saying that Kepler's laws of planetary motion no longer apply and that planets revolve around their moons and there are no stars in the system.

IMHO, there needs to be science and real data underlying the genre -- even and including fantasy. if you want a medievalesque setting, do some homework and learn the names of different styles of clothing. It's really not that hard and that vocabulary adds greatly to the texture of your work.

But then, don't you expect that sort of opinion from someone who has spent over 20 years learning hands on about the middle ages and renaissance? I'm just darn lucky the archery scenes in my books and the one I submitted to the anthology were accurate; I never got to shoot an arrow personally until about a month ago!

[Sean Lookielook]

Laurel wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Well as phasers aren't real I think we put this one down to willing suspension of disbelief:)"

but there is only so far that a person will suspend disbelief. You cannot, for exa..."

"What's in a name?" Sorry Laurel, but high fantasy has been outvoted by the fans of Sulu. Besides, I have already set up the accounts under the name Foil & Phaser. It would be interesting to hear about your research and experiences, though. Perhaps you could write an essay or even a regular column on historical authenticity. I enjoy that sort of thing, and I'm sure others would too.

This is a book Krista Ball did on food: What Kings Ate and Wizards Drank

[A.L.]

I think I have that book by Krista Ball, although I haven't yet read it. Yes useful and accurate info is always helpful.

[Sean Lookielook]

Alexandra wrote: "I think I have that book by Krista Ball, although I haven't yet read it. Yes useful and accurate info is always helpful."

It's a little rough for a published book, but it was funny and insightful.

[James]

Haha, Laurel, I feel the same way about the depiction of government & politics in fiction sometimes. TV & movies are often the most egregious violators (Independence Day comes to mind), but lots of sci fi & fantasy authors seem to have very little understanding of how politics in different governmental systems work. I'm still trying to figure out the political organization of the Shire. Pratchett may be one of the best, actually. Anhk-Morpork functions like a real city under enlightened despotic rule would. Anyway, long way of saying 'I feel your pain.'

[Laurel]

James wrote: "Haha, Laurel, I feel the same way about the depiction of government & politics in fiction sometimes. TV & movies are often the most egregious violators (Independence Day comes to mind), but lots of..."

Thanks James! So far I've had the good luck of writing on areas of less expertise -- then proven to be RIGHT. Milady Alexandra, a very sweet gentle from the UK with a solid knowledge of history, was able to confirm for me that I got parliamentary government correct in my books when I have no first hand experience with it as an American and no real education in English history past March 1603 (death of Elizabeth I).

I think being a history hobbyist and amateur scientist (yes, I was the only kid in my grade school running physics experiments for fun!) has really made me crave accuracy. Believe it or not folks, it is NOT that hard to learn this stuff! I had to learn how nuclear reactors work when I introduced Lord Engineer Kian of house Xing-li in book two; kinda hard to talk about the star drive on a star craft if you have NO CLUE how the engine works.

But then maybe I'm a freak on this?

[A.L.]

I have a degree in politics so I remember bits, I also have a diploma in Classical Studies which was pretty much Roman History in my case, both of these where long ago but I do like to read history.

Politics is....odd. Most people have a narrow view of it, knowing little beyond their own country and caring less. US democracy is not the same as the democracy in the UK, or Europe and the older style feudal and medieval governments and political systems are very different. Certainly in most of the Western World there is an ability for most people to vote (whether it actually changes anything or not is debatable but the franchise is there.) Women have had the vote for not as long as you would think, less than about 100 years in the UK.

Times change, fortunately.

I like Independence Day (the film) but it is basically a rehash of War of the Worlds (and I refuse to watch the recent adaptation of that!)

It does help to do some research certainly. Although I do think a lot of readers either don't know or may not be that bothered in some genres. I know those explosions on the movies aren't ACTUALLY what happens but they are fun to watch. Sometimes reality is actually not quite as much fun. It probably depends on your audience and genre to a large extent.

Sci fi is probably more important to have a basis in fact than some other genres. I do find it annoying though when I read a period piece such as regency and it is all wrong.

[A.L.]

James wrote: "Haha, Laurel, I feel the same way about the depiction of government & politics in fiction sometimes. TV & movies are often the most egregious violators (Independence Day comes to mind), but lots of..."

To be honest most governments haven't a clue either, which explains a good deal:)

[Scott]

I totally agree, Laurel on the accuracy thing. Having read lots of Tom Clancy, I can respect the level of research and detail in fiction. Obviously, I'm not saying Clancy never gets anything wrong but when you have 2-page long descriptions of locations, there's a certain level of research necessary. And, that's something I've tried to emulate in my own writing (although to a less "hit you in the face" degree).

But, Sean, the site looks amazing!

[A.L.]

It is hard to know when to stop though, some people would constitute that an info dump....

[Scott]

Yeah totally agree and sometimes it gets that way with Clancy, which is why I find him to be a good model of what to do and what not to do at the same time.

[Laurel]

Here's part of a paragraph from my book "Ghosts of the Past" where Lord Knight Elendir is teaching his son crossbow archery. It's a great example of research without, I assume, crossing that line where your eyes glaze over


Elendir put his foot into the stirrup of his crossbow, and then slowly drew his bow string up the stock to the metal latching clip until it locked into place. Watching his son replicate his movements, he picked up a wooden target quarrel as he removed his foot from the crossbow and righted it to horizontal, “Now rotate the quarrel until the flat side is down and rests stably against the stock. Yes. Exactly like that. Keep your crossbow horizontal, sight carefully, and then fire when ready.” Stepping to the yellow firing line, Elendir sighted, and then fired at the center most target. With barely any rotation, the quarrel sped into the target six degrees right of the center point. It was a good hit, but far from perfect. Corann stepped to the firing line to address the same target his father fired at. Steading himself, he sighted, and then pulled the crossbow trigger. THUMP cried his quarrel, landing two degrees to the right of his father’s, closer to the center. Elendir smiled.


Did the research help? I'm inclined to say "yes." And for me as an author, it keeps the archers in my living history group from rolling their eyes at me as an idiot. :)

Research and detail do not have to take up two pages. Instead, they help you describe concisely and effectively. :)

Unless someone disagrees with the excerpt?

[Sean Lookielook]

Laurel wrote: "Here's part of a paragraph from my book "Ghosts of the Past" where Lord Knight Elendir is teaching his son crossbow archery. It's a great example of research without, I assume, crossing that line ..."

If you fleshed that out a little more with an introduction for context, it would make a good post for the blog.

[A.L.]

Seems fine to me. :)

[Alfred]

Laurel wrote: "Here's part of a paragraph from my book "Ghosts of the Past" where Lord Knight Elendir is teaching his son crossbow archery. It's a great example of research without, I assume, crossing that line ..."

I am a huge fan of the The Ruins of Gorlanand the rest of John Flanaganseries. His archery descriptions are very similar. It's obvious to tell that he also used his research (and a lot of it) to enhance the experience of the work, instead of inform readers of that specific topic. Rick Riordandoes this too while walking the line closer to the edge in his two series on Greek/Roman gods and Egyptian gods.
sorry got off on a tangent, but my point is you do it very well too, just enough description to get the point across and I learn something about the crossbow.

[Laurel]

Sean wrote: "Laurel wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Well as phasers aren't real I think we put this one down to willing suspension of disbelief:)"

but there is only so far that a person will suspend disbelief. You ..."

I actually would not mind doing some writing for the blog about research, authenticity, even share some of my best research resources (did any of you know there is a dynamic periodic table of elements? I spent two weeks with it writing "Ghosts of the Past" so I could accurately describe what Elendir finds when he investigates his father's murder by terrorists). Maybe it IS the way I was trained in university concerning professional history, but I myself value research and hard data. Sci-fi especially needs it!

So I am happy to share research resources in the interests of improving our genre.

I found the blog, but just do not know how to submit content for it.

And yes, I am also glad to do something with that archery excerpt as well. Archery is one of those great medieval touches too many sci-fi writers ignore. And if you have not tried doing it yourself -- you should! I want a bow!!

[A.L.]

I think the blog is in the beta stage at present,to see what it is like. I had an email saying the official one would appear shortly and to sign up at the side.

You could be technical adviser:)

[Sean Lookielook]

I am working on the guidelines right now. I will start taking submissions from authors very soon, possibly later today. Keep checking here or on the website. You should be working on a sample post if you want to join.

[A.L.]

Oh hmm. That involves me having a working brain....

Storywise are you willing to accept a re-write - by that I mean a retelling of say Beowulf?

[Sean Lookielook]

Derivative works are fine as long as the source material is public domain or creative commons sharealike. Also accepting short stories, essays related to writing, reviews, and workshop ideas.

[A.L.]

Ok.

[Sean Lookielook]

Okay, everybody. Let the fun begin.

Foil & Phaser is now accepting applications for authors.

[Tina]

Thanks for getting the site up so fast. Maybe I missed something but I don't understand these terms in the Terms of Use:
"...By submitting to this blog, the author grants a non-exclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use, distribute, transmit, reproduce, modify (to edit for formatting, length, or content), publish, translate, promote, and publicly display such content for informational, educational, or entertainment purposes. "

My confusion is that I thought authors would retain the rights to their own works. Would you please clarify? Thanks.

[Sean Lookielook]

Translated from the legalese it says that you have given us permission to post on the website for free, but not to share, resell or otherwise profit from it. You keep the rights and can sell or publish it elsewhere. You grant a similar license if you post in the Goodreads Creative Writing forums or similar sites. You must grant a license because you hold the rights.

It was cobbled together from other Terms of Service agreements, but I am not a lawyer. If there is anything wrong or objectionable in the terms I would appreciate it if someone with expertise would have a look.

[Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth]

Dammit, I'm realising more and more with the discussions of accuracy that I am really going to need to do some medical research into diseases if I am ever to make my story, which includes infectious diseases, properly work and not get ripped to pieces by folk saying 'that just doesn't make sense!'. And there I though the 'not quite the real world' setting would let me off the research. >.< Heh, I'm sure it'll make for interesting reading anyway. :)

Oh, incidentally, while I'm interested in Foil and Phaser, I'm going to hold back for a while and see how it develops, mostly because I'm not sure yet how it's meant to work. But I'm excited to see it up and running, since it sounds like it will be a fun and useful site. I really respect you guys for getting it together the way you have.

[Laurel]

Ruth wrote: "Dammit, I'm realising more and more with the discussions of accuracy that I am really going to need to do some medical research into diseases if I am ever to make my story, which includes infectiou..."

Ruth: when I was writing the scene in Ghosts of the Past where a character gets killed on the chamber floor of the Great Council, I consulted with an EMT. I had to adjust my text (this is one of the multiple scenes in that book where someone dies by arrow or crossbow quarrel) because the EMT, who also happens to be in my living history group and therefore familiar with medieval weapons, told me that if my character were hit where I initially wrote him hit, he would have been unable to speak in the last five or six seconds before he died.

The research paid off; I got the character to say what I needed him to say -- mostly as he dies mid-sentence -- in just the right pacing. Naturally the EMT got into more detail than I really wanted (yes, I'm squeamish!), but it all really helped me.

Do not be afraid to talk to experts and ask questions. If you ask people about their jobs with sincerity and humility, they really will help you! I've learned that in my freelance journalism. Ask very nicely and they will teach!

[Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth]

Laurel wrote: "Do not be afraid to talk to experts and ask questions. If you ask people about their jobs with sincerity and humility, they really will help you! I've learned that in my freelance journalism. Ask very nicely and they will teach!"

I'm not at all afraid of talking to experts, since I know for sure they would be happy to help. What I am is incredibly shy and introverted, which tends to surprise people because I'm such a chatterbox, but if I can, in any way, avoid having to confront another human being, even just to ask questions they would happily answer... *shudders* In a perfect world, I would never have to speak to another individual unless I felt like it! So I'd be far happier finding my answers in a book, even if that is the more expensive and troublesome way of doing things!

...which means I should probably get over this at some point. Funnily enough, I did study journalism at college, and arranged interviews with people for articles and everything, so why I can't do the same thing now...*hides*

[Sean Lookielook]

Louise wrote: "Ruth wrote: "Oh, incidentally, while I'm interested in Foil and Phaser, I'm going to hold back for a while and see how it develops, mostly because I'm not sure yet how it's meant to work. But I'm e..."

I realize that new and unfamiliar situations can unsettling, and often your first reaction is to wait and see what happens. I am a huge sociophobe myself, so I know the uncertainty that comes with reaching out to connect with people who are essentially strangers. Everyone has concerns about what this community blog will become.

I'd like to say you get out of it exactly what you give, but I don't think that's true. A community is much more than the sum of its parts. There is an opportunity here not only to get peer criticism for your work, but also to network, share resources and work together to make not only better stories, but also better writers.

A community will ultimately become what it's membership wants it to be. For those willing to invest the time and energy, there could be huge rewards. But if we all wait to see what the other guy is going to do first, then this project will die in childbirth.

This blog has been a large investment of my time and energy, but I cannot do this alone. If you do want to show that you think a community blog is a good idea worth pursuing, I would ask that you do one simple thing – go to the website and subscribe. This is a risk-free way of showing your support and it will help to keep you informed of what is going on. I hope to see you there soon.

[Matt]

Sean wrote: "Translated from the legalese it says that you have given us permission to post on the website for free, but not to share, resell or otherwise profit from it. You keep the rights and can sell or pub..."

Not to quibble, but I don't see any language that says [whomever] cannot profit from it ... maybe I'm just tired and can't see it. It also appears vague about to whom one would be granting this license ... is Foil and Phaser a legal entity, or is it the community that's mentioned in article 1? It also doesn't mention the website specifically, so it sort of looks like it can be published anywhere, in any form.

I'm not a lawyer either, but when I compare article 4 to the ToS of LitReactor, for example, I can't find similar references to worldwide licenses. Didn't you say, Sean, earlier in this thread that you didn't want to use Goodreads Creative Writing Forum because it had licensing language like this?

I'm not trying to stir things up. Just looking for clarity, I guess.

[Sean Lookielook]

Matt wrote: "Sean wrote: "Translated from the legalese it says that you have given us permission to post on the website for free, but not to share, resell or otherwise profit from it. You keep the rights and ca..."

The language has been changed. The entity to which you grant the license is WordPress.com and it is necessary in order for them to legally reproduce your work and publish the blog. Please refer to their Terms of service. http://en.wordpress.com/tos/

The Goodreads license was too sweeping for my taste, primarily because they retain rights even if you delete your work and stop using the service.

LitReactor uses different language to say the same thing. "By submitting any material to this Site, you are granting us the right to display, copy and distribute your submission on or in connection with the Site, at our discretion."

I hope that answers all of your questions.

[Sean Lookielook]

Louise wrote: I was going to but the "sample post" thing totally threw me, because I don't have any work I want

Being an writer on the blog dies carry some responsibilities with it. You could still consider joining in as a participant, but from what I've read of your comments, I don't know if an online forum is suited to your needs. However, if you only wanted to run workshops, I'm sure we could make arrangements to accommodate you.

As to the sample post - that is just help me gauge a general level of writing. A few hundred words at random, a link to any online writing, published works or a personal blog would do as well.

[Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth]

Sean wrote: "This blog has been a large investment of my time and energy, but I cannot do this alone. If you do want to show that you think a community blog is a good idea worth pursuing, I would ask that you do one simple thing – go to the website and subscribe. This is a risk-free way of showing your support and it will help to keep you informed of what is going on. I hope to see you there soon. "

Maybe I'm going to sound incredibly stupid here, but I'm not sure HOW to subscribe. There is something about applying to write blogs and such and so forth, which states you commit to make entries, but I'm not at all sure what is expected there. There was also a post saying "Please do not fill out the forms; these are not real posts and you will flood my inbox with spam." I'm not sure what forms this refers to, and so I'm afraid of doing anything that might cause problems. Broad sounding 'do not' requests like this make stupid nervous people like me (or maybe it's just me) scared I might mess something up - I blame my childhood where merely sitting near to a computer meant you were responsible if anything went wrong; "You must have TOUCHED something!" Sorry.

Your complaint is completely valid, and I totally understand what you mean - someone has to go first - but I was rather hoping someone a little more familiar with these kind of blogs would get the ball rolling so I can see what to do and what is expected. So for now I hope you won't mind if I just keep the site bookmarked and check on it from time to time to see how it is shaping up, and try and figure it out. On the other hand, if there is something obvious and easy I can do to help, let me know, and I'll do my best. :)

[Sean Lookielook]

Ruth wrote: "I'm not sure HOW to subscribe."

You should only apply to write on the blog if you are willing to write and publish posts on a regular basis, perhaps twice a month.

If you just want to follow the blog, you can subscribe by email by clicking the button on the right side where it says "Follow Blog via Email". If you fill in your address there, you will get an email every time someone publishes a new post. There are RSS feeds if you use a reader.

We are also on Twitter and Facebook. Any one who follows us there will get links to new posts and help boost our follower count.

We need readers and other people to participate in the workshops, but you don't have to commit to being an author on the blog to do so. Every one who subscribes is helping make the blog better!

[A.L.]

I am not sure I can commit to twice a month at the moment but I can help out every so often. I will follow however and see what I can do. The posts don't have to be used after all.

[A.L.]

I signed up to follow for now. Will have to see what I can come up with writing wise. After all I can always use it on my own blog. Lol.

Sharing on my blog as well. Happy to spam facebook as well. Let me know.

[Sean Lookielook]

Alexandra wrote: "I signed up to follow for now. Will have to see what I can come up with writing wise. After all I can always use it on my own blog. Lol.

Sharing on my blog as well. Happy to spam facebook as well...."

There are a Twitter follow button and a Facebook Like button in the sidebar, but you might have to scroll down to see them.

I will set up a mechanism for people to do one-time or occasional posts after we get going. I am perfectly happy if you want to reblog the content on your own site as well.

[A.L.]

Thanks. Shared on the blog and grabbed the facebook link. I just don't want to offer something I can't provide.

[Scott]

I subscribed, liked, and followed. I'm not sure I'd have the time to commit to 2x a month, but I'll help out any other way possible. Again, thanks for setting this all up

[Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth]

Sean wrote: "If you just want to follow the blog, you can subscribe by email by clicking the button on the right side where it says "Follow Blog via Email". If you fill in your address there, you will get an email every time someone publishes a new post. There are RSS feeds if you use a reader."

Thank you. For some reason, I only saw the RSS links before this post, and I've never really understood RSS (I'd learn, but it seems to be on the way out), but I see the 'follow blog by email' bit now. Can I ask, does it specifically help for me to subscribe in that way, or would checking the blog frequently for new posts be just as good? I subscribe to things on YouTube only when I know it can actually helps the creators, but any emails I get on such things always go, unread, to my bin, as I check the things I'm interested in regularly without the need for prompts. I clicked the facebook and twitter links in case you might get a bit of extra exposure from that.

I might be interested in contributing later, but my life is a little messy right now, so I wouldn't like to commit to anything I can't keep up.

[Serendi]

I sure *hope* RSS isn't on the way out, I really like it. When Google decided to close down Google Reader much panic ensued, but someone (Feedly? not sure) is stepping in with an aggregator with the same API (way of working) so all the Google-based apps can just move over to there. Whew!

[Sean Lookielook]

I've set the launch date for June 10th to begin regular blog posts. We are still looking for more writers (and readers), and I have added an option for anyone interested in a one-time post or casual schedule. Please check out the website for details and subscribe if you haven't already.

[Sean Lookielook]

Ruth wrote: "...does it specifically help for me to subscribe in that way, or would checking the blog frequently for new posts be just as good?"

The two most important metrics in judging a blog's impact are subscribers and pageviews. As long as you are visiting that site that's great. Some people (like me) need to be reminded. If you don't want emails, the links to posts will be put up on our Facebook page and Twitter stream. Subscribing there will also add you to the follower count and make me happy.

[Wilmar]

Quick question - If I sign up to be a guest writer, the terms does not state what types of stories will be accepted.

I know, I know, obviously if it's a sword and laser blog that means it's sci fi and fantasy. But does this mean that writers cannot submit say, a horror fiction piece?

Great job on the blog, it looks very compelling.