Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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What Are you Reading?
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Actually, no. I don't think any of our opinions matter to anyone but ourselves. We're all too busy having opinions to care about anyone else's opinion. :-D
But seriously, I agree that it is perfectly possible to appreciate something and yet not like it. Two completely different things are going on there.
What makes me impatient (as you've probably noticed) is the illusion of social media which leads people to believe -- and now I am not talking about you or your opinion of the book; this is a completely general comment -- that their likes or dislikes on any given topic are as important and valid within the cosmos as anyone else's.
And I don't buy that except in the most general touchy-feely we're-all-humans-and-worth-something way. My opinion on Elizabethan literature is not worth shit. I know nothing of Elizabethan literature. So while my opinion is (maybe) important to me, it's not important to scholars of Elizabethan literature.
Anyway, I am off on a rant because I hate what social media is doing to critical and objective thought.
Who knew one of Hansen's toss-offs was going to stimulate such heavy thoughts for a Thursday morning!
Jax wrote: "Josh wrote: "Sometimes, though, people simply do not have the tools. We are all not equal in our education or experiences or abilities. And the sooner we get over our idea that our personal opinion..."Coincidentally, another forum I frequent is also discussing critical "objective" reviews verses Amazon/GR reviews, and it relates to what you are saying. Often if I am just talking with other readers or looking for a recommendation from someone who usually likes what I like, I want the personal view. It doesn't have the same weight as a review of a prestigious critic or someone who is a literary expert, but it is more meaningful to me in how I relate to the book and how I make buying choices. As for "good" or "bad" books, sure we could find some objective standards and benchmarks that are traditionally used, but some will always argue about how to apply them and whether a particular book met those standards.
You've made me curious enough to want to read this book even though the writer is not one I have picked up before, but honestly if I have to take a few classes to learn to appreciate it, I'm not sure I'll want to put in that much effort. It's like telling me if I gave up sugar and ate broccoli, I'd start to crave broccoli. Maybe--but I just don't see it happening. But I will admit the broccoli is objectively good.
ETA: I've also seen cases of books that I consider fun mind candy that had a fractured fan base after an unpopular book, and the author sometimes accuses those who didn't like it of not understanding it. That always goes over as insulting.
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Heavens no. Backtrack is not some literary masterpiece. It's a nicely executed, if slight, noir mystery -- most definitely not a romance.
Josh wrote: "I hate what social media is doing to critical and objective thought."Ok, I see what you're saying about the effects of social media. Fascinating topic. There's no question that some people are more qualified than others to identify the merits of a piece of writing. Although I admit that idea still rankles a bit after some of the deadly dull classics I had to read. I remember thinking, 'Who gets to decide what makes great writing?'
Anyway, I was thinking in terms of what we do here on GR and you were thinking larger.
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Ok, I see what you're saying about the effects of social media. Fascinating topic. There's no question that some ..."
Don't mind me. I am brooding over the decline of Western Civilization. ;-)
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LOL. You are a good man. You're doing exactly as you were told. :-P
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That wasn't my brightest idea either. I finished it around midnight, well after my bedtime.
I just finished rereading Fadeout for the second time. Just as well done this time as it was the first time. But it took me longer to read, I think. Someone claimed this was because I was still getting over the ending. Maybe.
But it's back to JCP's series again, at least for today. I've got a lot of catching up to do!
And I have to say, after reading Fadeout, I now feel much better and ready as anything to move on and get to Scorpion by Aleksander Voinov!
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Oh The Melody Thief, I've got that on my TBR pile. Well, not sure, it might still be on my wish list, but it's on some list of mine or other. Someday I'll get to it!
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It's coming, I just have to rewrite it.
It irritates me that there is almost no real positive review at the moment, apart..."
Agreed. Hansen is so much more than what's going on. I learned that pretty quickly. Granted, I really wanted the romances to work out, a lot. But, the rest, if you can't appreciate how he writes, and the mystery too, then you've lost the entire book. And that's a sad thing.
When I was rereading Fadeout, I kept thinking about the amazingness of how he wrote, and how I could never hope to copy that style to save my life. It wouldn't be me, no matter how much I love it.
Josh wrote: .Don't mind me. I am brooding over the decline of Western Civilization. ;-) "
Heh. Too true to be funny. :-/
Nothing is in decline. People just have more access to a variety of opinions. Those kinds of opinions always existed. Welcome to the marketplace of ideas.Look, there is still a place for literary reviews and awards. It's just not in customer reviews. It's certainly not on Twitter.
Of course there is a difference between not liking a book and a book not being good. That doesn't mean the average reader (or buyer) cares. I know it makes you sad. I think most people do know fact from opinion, but when it comes to criteria that can be debated, you have a tougher sell. The only thing you can do is support education and trust readers to make judgements about the reviews they read.
I decide to add this: if a new author asks me for a review, I tend to both rate the book higher and give a more detailed review than I would have if I were just thinking about whether I liked the book or not. On the other hand, I ignore new authors who spam or promote in the wrong places, so the social aspect is a double edged sword.
Na wrote: "Agreed. It might look like as a decline but really it is just a more broadcasted range of thoughtless opinions. Which is not really a good idea. (But I'm biased. I'm a strong believer that some sho..."I wonder if civilization would look different if people had to earn a voice? But who would decide what criteria would be used and who passed their benchmarks. :)
Na wrote: "Unfortunately, I don't believe it will be different. As a whole our civilisation isn't really wise. Yet, there's hope! I like this sentence "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere..."
LOL I, for one, welcome our robot overlords.
Valerie C wrote: "I just finished Aria by Shira Anthony. It was not my favorite of her Blue Notes series - that would probably be The Melody Thief - but I liked it. Very enjoyable ser..."I loved The Melody Thief. I also loved the first one, Blue Notes.
Sandra wrote: "Josh wrote: .Don't mind me. I am brooding over the decline of Western Civilization. ;-) "
Heh. Too true to be funny. :-/"
I feel your pain. But it also made me chuckle.
Na wrote: "Agreed. It might look like as a decline but really it is just a more broadcasted range of thoughtless opinions. Which is not really a good idea. (But I'm biased. I'm a strong believer that some sho..."I overheard a pretty funny conversation at work. They were talking about a football player who had said something stupid on Twitter. Their consensus was that years ago when you were a dumbass, only those overhearing you knew about it. Now it's on Twitter or Facebook or You Tube and it's FOREVER! You can no longer be a dumbass in private.
Susinok wrote: "Now it's on Twitter or Facebook or You Tube and it's FOREVER! You can no longer be a dumbass in private."Apparently this is not a deterrent ;-)
Antonella wrote: "Susinok wrote: "Now it's on Twitter or Facebook or You Tube and it's FOREVER! You can no longer be a dumbass in private."Apparently this is not a deterrent ;-)"
I know, right? What baffles me is that these folks do not understand the permanency of their stupidity on the internet. Do they not realize that those clips and comments and whatnot can be dredged up 5,10, 45 years later when they run for office? (or whatever)
I censor myself in every comment. Well, I mean that I am always 100% aware of what I put out there. I'm aware that (potentially) the entire known world can see my comment.
Susinok wrote: "I know, right? What baffles me is that these folks do not understand the permanency of their stupidity on the internet. Do they not realize that those clips and comments and whatnot can be dredged up 5,10, 45 years later when they run for office? (or whatever)"I really don't understand this either. Especially when coming from public figures and politicians: do they think that people won't notice if they say something extremely stupid, rude or racist on an open forum?
I can understand that some ''normal'' people are still a bit ignorant about the social media and think that FB is like their dining room, but not people with a personal PR manager!
Susinok wrote: "Antonella wrote: "Susinok wrote: "Now it's on Twitter or Facebook or You Tube and it's FOREVER! You can no longer be a dumbass in private."Apparently this is not a deterrent ;-)"
I know, right? ..."
That's one reason I think privacy is a good idea online. What happened to the day when everyone used screen names? They don't tell your employer or psycho ex what your up to, and they can be dropped when you want to move on. I know it's hard to self promote with a pseudonym, but maybe celebrities should let staff handle most of their online promotions anyway.
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Some cheery thoughts this week. ; )
Karen wrote: "I'm not sure that social media posts will exist forever. Well, maybe in NSA recordings, but at some point FB et al will implode or become obsolete when the next very big thing takes over. I mean th..."It might still be there but lost in a gigantic sea of static and noise and enormous amounts of information.It can maybe be dug out by those who are interested, but who will be interested in me 50 years from now? A sobering thought and a tiny bit comforting too :)
Na wrote: "(ETA: in France we have "Le droit à l'image" which is a legal mean who gives to each individuals the right to make use of its own image in any representation as he/she likes. So we can be opposed to any use of it, commercial or not, in any public or private space.) "We have that too (only it doesn't sound as cool as in French 'Recht am eigenen Bild' just doesn't do it^^). Sometimes I feel like fighting windmills when I tell a professor again and again and again that, no, they can not take pictures/make videos of their students without their consent and prerequisite information of their right to withdraw the consent (not sneaky or anything, just without any thought about consequences). And we're at university here! /I'm going to stop now and get back to work...
Calathea wrote: "Na wrote: "(ETA: in France we have "Le droit à l'image" which is a legal mean who gives to each individuals the right to make use of its own image in any representation as he/she likes. So we can b..."We have the same rule here, but many don't know about it and post pictures of others without asking anyway. A serious example on how bad it can be was discussed in the media a while ago, where people had posted pictures of their kids' classmates at a school function, thus a family who were living on a concealed adress because of an abusive father/spouse were recognised by people that shouldn't have had that information.
Anne wrote: "Calathea wrote: "Na wrote: "(ETA: in France we have "Le droit à l'image" which is a legal mean who gives to each individuals the right to make use of its own image in any representation as he/she l..."Yikes, I hope they're OK :-(
Idamus wrote: "Anne wrote: "Calathea wrote: "Na wrote: "(ETA: in France we have "Le droit à l'image" which is a legal mean who gives to each individuals the right to make use of its own image in any representatio..."I hope so too, the story didn't really mention that.
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Indeed. Often enough those are t..."
For example, my abiding love for stupid action flicks. It's not like I don't KNOW they're bad. I just don't care. Sure, bring on the CGI. Bring on the groaner repartee. The plot strung together with coincidence and chewing gum. BRING. IT. ON.
Which is not to say that I can't tell the difference between Die Hard XIV and Ikiru.
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Look, there is still a place for literary..."
No. It's not about that. Really. It's about the glorification of the uninformed opinion. The raising of dumb feeling over education and expertise.
And that is most certainly going on in our society. When you have the rightwing (sorry -- I don't mean to get political, this is tangential to politics, I promise) denigrating the President for being "intellectual," "educated," etc. you've got serious problems as a society.
When the idea of being informed before you start flapping your mouth actually raises hackles, I think you've got some serious issues ahead.
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Look, there is still a place for literary..."
And I strongly disagree that we are not in decline.
WE ARE DOOMED.
But that doesn't mean we can't have a pleasant and civilized time discussing books and literature in the meanwhile. :-)
Josh wrote: "Feral wrote: "Nothing is in decline. People just have more access to a variety of opinions. Those kinds of opinions always existed. Welcome to the marketplace of ideas.Look, there is still a plac..."
I can't think of a better way to spend the days before the apocalypse ;)
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Yeah, it seems that some people really have hard time understanding that. The law seems to be the same here as well, by the way.
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Well, here's a thought. Maybe just occasionally FACTS could be used as criteria for something. :-D
No, I know we're talking books and literature and opinions here. It's largely subjective. But the spillover into general life-altering decisions and voting is real -- and appalling because you increasingly have a populace who believes that just "feeling" is enough. That's plenty!
You have people proud of being uninformed and ignorant and being guided by emotion over reason and information.
Which is why M/M romance and gay-friendly films have indeed played a vital role in earning civil rights for GLBT citizens. Because that's how humans work. You get them through their emotions, through rhetoric -- you don't get them through facts and dialog. Because most people would rather die than think.
But this is far too grim a conversation for a Friday morning.
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I like this sentence "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere..."
Ha!
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Yep! Absolutely. Which is why social media is a two-edged sword for artists, politicians, etc.
Years ago, I remember Otto Penzler talking about bookstores begging him to send out a particular author on a book tour. And finally the publisher did. They sent this guy out. AND HE WAS A DISASTER. He was rude and irascible and socially inept. And then the bookstores were begging the publisher to take him back! Put him back inside the box! :-D
The kind of brain that cooks up stories and fiction is not necessarily the brain of a socially savvy human. I think it helps to recognize this of one's self. :-D
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Apparently this is not a deterrent ;-)"
I know, right? ..."
Oh my God. Half these people don't even know how it works! They're in their cars driving on the information superhighway and they haven't even found the stick shift yet. They don't know where the gas gauge is! They're just on the road and driving fast.
Josh wrote: "Na wrote: "Josh wrote: "But seriously, I agree that it is perfectly possible to appreciate something and yet not like it. Two completely different things are going on there."Indeed. Often enough ..."
I agree with Josh. It is scary how proud people are of being uninformed and ignorant, instead of being thrilled at being in a world that offers so many chances to learn and grow.
But.. But.. they told me his was the age of the geek! Are you saying my "I <3 Nerds" T-shirt is a lie?
Murphy wrote: "Josh wrote: "Na wrote: "Josh wrote: "But seriously, I agree that it is perfectly possible to appreciate something and yet not like it. Two completely different things are going on there."Indeed. ..."
No, it just seems like the ones who are yelling the loudest don't know what they are talking about. It is scary to me.
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WE ARE ALLLLL DOOMED!!! And all you got was that lousy T-shirt!
;-D
Josh wrote: "Feral wrote: "But.. But.. they told me his was the age of the geek! Are you saying my "I WE ARE ALLLLL DOOMED!!! And all you got was that lousy T-shirt!
;-D"
I always hear that in the voice of Private Fraser from Dad's Army.
Josh wrote: "WE ARE DOOMED.But that doesn't mean we can't have a pleasant and civilized time discussing books and literature in the meanwhile. :-) ..."
I don't have any kids so I'll ride this ride, and it can all sort itself out later after the Zombie Apocalypse long after I'm dead.
Hambel wrote: "Josh wrote: "WE ARE ALLLLL DOOMED!!! And all you got was that lousy T-shirt! ;-D"
I always hear that in the voice of Private Fraser from Dad's Army. ..."
He's the only one who can do it right.
I've just read a couple of books by a new to me author, Darien Cox: Criminal Pleasures and Guys On Top, which I enjoyed. Well written, believable and distinct characters, good stories, and hot.
Josh wrote: "Feral wrote: "But.. But.. they told me his was the age of the geek! Are you saying my "I WE ARE ALLLLL DOOMED!!! And all you got was that lousy T-shirt!
;-D"
LOL Well, at least I can find a way to market the decline and capitalize on our fall until currency fails.
Feral wrote: "WE ARE ALLLLL DOOMED!!! And all you got was that lousy T-shirt!;-D"
LOL Well, at least I can find a way to market the decline and capitalize on our fall until currency fails."
There is always the barter system...
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But that doesn't mean we can't have a pleasant and civilized time discussing books and literature in the meanwhile. :-) ..."
I don't have any kids so I'll ride this ri..."
Me too.
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;-D"
LOL Well, at least I can find a way to market the decline and capitalize on our fall until currency fails."
The..."
But I have nothing to barter. I like a barter system, but what would I barter? I guess I could knit scarves for people or something. Otherwise, my nicknacks would have to go first. Clothes next? No. DVDs next. Then clothes. Books would go last. lol. If ever.
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
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Sing for the Coming of the Longest Night (other topics)
A Shattered Silver Crown (other topics)
A Shattered Silver Crown (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Jordan Castillo Price (other topics)Alexis Hall (other topics)
Katherine Fabian (other topics)
Iona Datt Sharma (other topics)
Cynthia Zhang (other topics)
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I didn't mean my opinion matters more, only that it does matter. As part of the discussion on this or any other book. And isn't it possible to see the craft or artistry in something and still not like it?