Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
ARCHIVE (General Topics)
>
What Are you Reading?
message 3851:
by
Calathea
(new)
Mar 17, 2014 03:30PM
Kate?
reply
|
flag
Mod
Hmmmm. Maybe Kate.
I've been out for a few hours and have come back to find this really interesting debate about why authors write and publish, and what characters look like, etc..I've never understood picturing characters as actors (except as potential cast members for making a film of the book). I read the author's description and get a sense of what a character looks like, but it's rare that I'll actually picture his face unless the author has been extremely detailed. Often it's more the way you see someone who's standing in front of a bright sunny window - you see their height and shape, what type of clothes they wear, know the colour of their hair, maybe get a flash of their eye-colour, but the detail of the face isn't visible. But from the rest of the book you get a strong sense of their personality.
But if I were to see a character described as looking just like X that would confuse me, especially if X is an actor. I'm not sure how one considers an identifiable person just on their looks, distinct from their personality. Actors portray different personalities, so which one is it who makes him attractive to you? And does some of that get mixed-in when you're thinking of the character in the book?
Barbra wrote: "Josh wrote: "Well this, for example. How is it that cartoon characters can be attractive to us? I find that endlessly entertaining. I mean, my nieces would get giggly and blushy over Yu-Gi-Oh. He..."
That's normal--you would have been a kid. I've had mini crushes on Edward from Full Metal Alchemist, Kakashi from Naurto and Zero from Vampire Knight. I probably need professional help.
Hj wrote: "I've never understood picturing characters as actors (except as potential cast members for making a film of the book). I read the author's description and get a sense of what a character looks like, but it's rare that I'll actually picture his face unless the author has been extremely detailed...."I feel the same way. How the characters look is sort of personal to me, and they don't look like anyone in particular on the tv or movie screen.
Feral wrote: "That's normal--you would have been a kid. I've had mini crushes on Edward from Full Metal Alchemist, Kakashi from Naurto and Zero from Vampire Knight. I probably need professional help. ..."I was in love with Disney's Robin Hood (the fox), then I saw the Errol Flynn version, and Robin Hood has forever been a favorite character of mine.
Mod
Hmmmm. Maybe Kate."
This has come up more than a few times, but I couldn't be less interested in her story. Why not? I can't decide whether it's lack of empathy, or closer to a personal been there/done that. Sometimes I'm compelled to wish/imagine an HEA for those innocent bystanders who are sideswiped by great fictional passions... but mostly I'm not.
Mod
"Someone sent me an interesting article this weekend on that very topic - http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/... "
Such an interesting article. It made me think of Hansen and Brandstetter, of every author who has created strong characters that seem to blur lines between fiction and life.
"...John Wells has markedly enriched my life — an impressive feat for a man who doesn’t exist."
Josh wrote: "Well, in the case of trying to spin off a character, the idea is to win readers over to the new world, so I guess you would want to know if that was working or not?It's not something I've ever tried to do, so I have no idea.
I would guess readers don't want you to take up too much story real estate on any couple but the main couple. "
I'm really interested in this because I'm writing a spin-off character now, from Magpie Lord 3. This wasn't remotely intended, but the character kind of took off in the book, and I gave him a one-line throwaway backstory that spun itself into a full plot while I wasn't looking, and then I literally couldn't make myself write anything else. I've left two projects mid-sentence to do this one.
But it is a bit concerning, because - well, to take your David Bradley example, if I'm reading Dangerous Ground world, I want Will and Taylor, and I actively side with Taylor against David 'move *on*, already' Bradley. And clearly a lot of people didn't want Nick and Kelly when they were expecting a full dose of Ty and Zane. I think spin-offs may be more tempting for the author than the readers, in fact. (And yet I'm still doing one. /kicks self/)
K.J. - I suspect a lot of it is about managing reader expectation. If you make it really clear (without apologising for it) that book 3 is about X character, then people will know what they're getting. As you said "And clearly a lot of people didn't want Nick and Kelly when they were expecting a full dose of Ty and Zane." If they had known what to expect their reactions would have been different.
K.J. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Well, in the case of trying to spin off a character, the idea is to win readers over to the new world, so I guess you would want to know if that was working or not?It's not something..."
Don't you find when a story grabs you like that you have no choice but to write it. Otherwise it will only try and take over when you intend to write something else. Best to get it out of your system.
And I think Hj is right. If it's not claiming to be something it's not (ie another Day and Crane book) then I think the readers will embrace it.
Lillian wrote: "K.J. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Well, in the case of trying to spin off a character, the idea is to win readers over to the new world, so I guess you would want to know if that was working or not?It's ..."
I hope you're right, both of you! It is absolutely crucial to be clear, and not to give in to the temptation to market New Different Thing as more of a part of Already Popular Thing than it is.
That said, it's amazing how much readers don't read blurbs or warnings and get upset anyway, as I'm sure anyone here can attest. I used to do books for struggling readers, which were specifically made very short with only a few lines per page. They were sold as very short with only a few lines per page. We put sample spreads out so you could see how short they were and how few lines per page were offered. I'd say about 1 in 4 got a 1* Amazon review saying 'This book is a rip-off because...'
Oh, and the book that grabs you is a wonderful feeling, Lillian. Absolute magic. I'm not looking that gift horse in the mouth, especially after having a fairly hard slog on the last one.
Karen wrote: "Josh wrote: "Calathea wrote: "Kate?"Hmmmm. Maybe Kate."
This has come up more than a few times, but I couldn't be less interested in her story. Why not? I can't decide whether it's lack of empat..."
I would definitely want to read Kate's story, perhaps because I found the description of her in the books so well written and compassionate. And the pain both she and Jake were feeling in that scene when Adrien came to the house just when she was moving out of the house, it really caught me like a kick in the gut. Maybe because one of the most painful things I have done was splitting up the home and everything in it, so it was very relatable to me. And it of course also says a lot about Josh's talent that he could write a scene so emotional without reverting to big words and flowery prose, just a down to earth description of a very painful moment.
Mod
K.J. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Well, in the case of trying to spin off a character, the idea is to win readers over to the new world, so I guess you would want to know if that was working or not?It's not something..."
Let it be Merrick, please. I love him :)
(Not that I ever am going to tell an author what to write, but I admit I really fell for Merrick)
Anne wrote: "K.J. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Well, in the case of trying to spin off a character, the idea is to win readers over to the new world, so I guess you would want to know if that was working or not?It's not something..."
Let it be Merrick, please. I love him :)
(Not that I ever am going to tell an author what to write, but I admit I really fell for Merrick) "
Yes, (much) more Merrick please, KJ! :-)
Anne wrote: "Karen wrote: "Josh wrote: "Calathea wrote: "Kate?"Hmmmm. Maybe Kate."
I would definitely want to read Kate's story,... "
I agree. I think that she's a strong enough character to support her own story. Whith others, like Angus, I love to read about them but only through the eyes of the MC. I would like to see more Angus with the filter of Andrien's wit. I don't know if Angus on his own would be interesting at all.
Is it strange that I barely noticed Kate on the first two or three reads? Only later, when I could focus on something other than Adrien and Jake I could notice what was going on around them. The real emotional impact (Kate-wise), for me, came with the audio books.
Mod
This is really interesting, because I felt much the same during the first read of the series. I couldn't have cared less about Kate. And I couldn't get enough of Adrien and Jake — preferably together, that is. Only later I could focus more on the other characters.
I can't say I'm clamoring for Kate's story, but I'm sure if Josh wanted to he could write a good story for her. She's got a lot going on. Female cop, so making her way in what's still kind of a man's world. She had an unplanned pregnancy that, at best, pushed her and Jake into marriage, and then suffered a miscarriage. She had to find out Jake's secrets and deal with all the lies he'd been telling her for years. That's loads of book material there even just as back story.
Johanna wrote: "Calathea wrote: "Is it strange that I barely noticed Kate on the first two or three reads? Only later, when I could focus on something other than Adrien and Jake I could notice what was going on ar..."I think I'm the only Adrien English fan who never wanted him and Jake to end up together, I hate people like Jake, I know two people living with HIV today because of a person like him.
But I still love the plots, and a lot of the side characters
Mod
I've never understood picturing ch..."
Exactly. Even the little running joke of Adrien looking like Monty Clift is not meant to imply that Adrien is in fact a mirror image of Clift. It's just that general impression.
For example, when you look at family members and you see a flash of resemblance -- Uncle Jim's chin or Grandpa Jones' nose...it's striking but it's also not identical.
Mod
Yes! And this is even funnier -- and fascinating. Not only is the character a cartoon, but it's a robot (hello Astro Boy!) or an animal or something non-human. :-D
Josh wrote: "Actually, they do have similar faces.Bandersnatch does not have a melancholy face though. He has more of a sly look. Like he is up to something. "
We call him Bandersnatch too! Cucumber Bandersnatch. That big name just asks to be turned into something else. :)
Susinok wrote: "I was in love with Disney's Robin Hood (the fox), then I saw the Errol Flynn version, and Robin Hood has forever been a favorite character of mine. "Oh, foxy Robin Hood! Sigh. Man of my dreams at seven years old. :)
Mod
It's not something..."
Well, but here's the thing -- and why I think spin-offs can and do work. Something about this character has obviously caught your attention; you want to follow his story.
So this is good. You write a new book about him and it's clearly indicated that the book is about *him.* I think where readers get disappointed (and even hostile) is when they feel tricked into reading about a romance they didn't sign on for.
It's tempting to use the primary and popular couple as a springboard, but you've kind of already done that with this character's conception. After the initial intro, it's time to move the franchise to a new neighborhood where it has to survive or fail on its own merits.
What you don't want to do is create a false expectation because that results in disappointment and actually puts obstacles in the way of the spinoff because now the reader is actually ANNOYED with the characters for getting in the way of the story she really wants to read.
Idamus wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Calathea wrote: "Is it strange that I barely noticed Kate on the first two or three reads? Only later, when I could focus on something other than Adrien and Jake I could notice what..."And I know people who were married and had children and after many years the husband (and in another occasion the wife) came out as gay and asked for a divorce. Very hard to live through and a deep sense of betrayal of course. But what I love about the books is that Josh manage to humanise Jake even so, he does hurtful things to others, but he also hurts himself and must live with the consequences, both to himself and to others. And he still is lovable to Adrien. I think that is a comforting thought actually, that you can still be lovable to someone regardless of what you have done before :)
Isn't this the case in real life too, when you get to know someone you see he or she is more than the one act of betrayal or the risky and yes, selfish behaviour.
So, Kate's story interests me, also because I see too often the ex-wife portrayed as a bitch in stories like this, and I somehow think that shows a lack of understanding on the author's behalf. Of course she is bitchy, but it is possible to understand why and accept that it isn't meanness, but pain that lies behind it.
Just as it is pain and self-hatred that lies behind Jake's destructive behaviour. It is not an apology for it, but I think the books at least give an explanation for it.
Just my random thoughts :)
Anne wrote: "Idamus wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Calathea wrote: "Is it strange that I barely noticed Kate on the first two or three reads? Only later, when I could focus on something other than Adrien and Jake I co..."Oh I agree, and if Jake had always used a condom, my view would have been completely different, it was the lack of that I hate him for
Mod
..."
Frankly, yes. :-D
That doesn't mean the author is wrong. It just means the author is naturally going to feel more passion and interest for her characters.
Let's face it, reader demand is not there for every single book that turns into a series. That demand for series is often driven by the author or the publisher sometimes before the first book has even launched!
But sometimes the author is absolutely right. Sometimes the potential is there. Maybe for a single standalone novel, maybe for an entire series. You just ask yourself the same questions you did when you created Vaudrey. Is there enough of a story here? Is this character strong enough to carry that story?
Mod
I think so.
And I agree, no author has to apologize for deciding to follow new characters, new storylines. I don't care how interactive the publishing dynamic gets, I'm still driving this car. I determine the route. If the reader is lucky, I may let him fiddle with the CD player. :-D
BUT you still have to communicate clearly with the reader about what the trip entails.
Mod
It's ..."
I do. Yes. But I have never had that happen to me regarding a secondary couple or character in a particular book. Maybe because I write a very tight, very focused story. It's all about the primary couple and there's never any question of whose story it is.
What I have had is other stories sneak up and snatch my attention away. This keeps happening with Kit and JX, and I finally realized I just wasn't ready to write that story yet.
Mod
No, they don't. And the current crop of reader is EXTREMELY touchy about the notion of having been "tricked." I'm not exactly sure where this anxiety stems from but you can see in reviews the outrage of having accidentally bought a short story or a book that turned out to be a mystery instead of a romance (or vice versa) or someone died or the book cost more than $2.99.
And much of this ire is despite the fact the book is clearly labeled.
Anne wrote: "Idamus wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Calathea wrote: "Is it strange that I barely noticed Kate on the first two or three reads? Only later, when I could focus on something other than Adrien and Jake I co..."I completely agree. I really can't stand it when the (ex)wife/girlfriend is made into this bitch(y) entity. It always seems like an easy way out for the author - dehumanizing that character so that the reader will not think twice about the consequences there. It's so much stronger emotionally to show that hurt person as exactly that - someone who is hurt - which is why i appreciate this in AE, why i have these mixed feelings about Kate, but overall i wish she'll eventually find happiness again, and i like that i care about her even though she's "not convenient" as a character. It's messy, like RL, but i like that it's focused on the (future) good.
Mod
I think Kate is a strong enough character to carry her own story. I just don't feel any need to write her story. Not now anyway.
Mod
:-)
You don't believe people can really change?
Josh wrote: "Idamus wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Calathea wrote: "Is it strange that I barely noticed Kate on the first two or three reads? Only later, when I could focus on something other than Adrien and Jake I co..."Sure, but my feelings are 100% based on real life experiences and those are hard to put aside
It's the same with rape scenes, I lived with a rape victim back when I went to boarding school, in 10th grade, that was 24 years ago, and I still see her when I read about non-con in books
Mod
I agree. It's difficult to view fictional experiences objectively when you've been through the real thing.
KC wrote: "It's messy, like RL, but i like that it's focused on the (future) good."I agree.
And I usually get pissed at readers who cannot accept in a romance the level of messiness which is normally happening in RL.
Of course they are right to complain if it is artificial, exaggerated, but in most cases it isn't: it just doesn't fit their idea of romance.
K.J. wrote: "Lillian wrote: "K.J. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Well, in the case of trying to spin off a character, the idea is to win readers over to the new world, so I guess you would want to know if that was workin..."I love a story idea that grabs you by the short and curlies. I was outlining what appears to be another long historical, when this lovely contemporary short popped into my head and refused to leave until I'd finished it. Just over seven writing hours later (that's 5 days for me) and I had a fully formed story ready to send off to the crit partners and a blissfully empty head.
When I think an author changes the series too much (e.g. Anita Blake), I personally also tend to stop forgiving minor flaws I was willing to overlook when I loved the character or story (though one could argue whether the quality of writing does change in some cases). To me it isn't a question of not liking the author's choice in terms of what happened, but the feeling that the author didn't get me where he or she wanted me to be in the story to make that change. This isn't specifically aimed at just one author, but it's the old "show don't tell" maxim. If I feel like the author just plops something in a series and has other characters explain it and it doesn't fit the previous books, I do feel cheated. Not in the "I demand my money back!" sense, but in the "I trusted this author to tell a good story and got emotionally invested, and now I feel let down." It is not so much about the choices the author makes, but how he or she gets there. I want changes to make sense in terms of the rest of the books and I want the message or tone of the books to stay the same.
Alison wrote: "We call him Bandersnatch too! Cucu..."Heard someone say the other day that Benedict Cumberbatch is the first actor to play Sherlock Holmes who has a more ridiculous name than "Sherlock Holmes." (And considering that's up against Basil Rathbone, that's quite a distinction. :D)
Becky wrote: "Alison wrote: "We call him Bandersnatch too! Cucu..."Heard someone say the other day that Benedict Cumberbatch is the first actor to play Sherlock Holmes who has a more ridiculous name than "Sher..."
I must be the only person on the planet who does not find Benedict attractive. To me he looks goofy and his face looks unfinished, like a sculpture which has been smoothed over.
Susinok wrote: "Becky wrote: "Alison wrote: "We call him Bandersnatch too! Cucu..."Heard someone say the other day that Benedict Cumberbatch is the first actor to play Sherlock Holmes who has a more ridiculous n..."
LOL. He's attractive in action. Part of it is the personality he projects.
Mod
:-)
"Do we ALWAYS have to listen to that Lifehouse CD?! I wanna listen to the sex scenes of Josh Lanyon audio books!" *said with a whining voice*
I am enjoying reading this interesting discussion today. Thanks to everyone for chiming in with your thoughts. :)
Feral wrote: "LOL. He's attractive in action. Part of it is the personality he projects. "Exactly. If I just saw a photo without ever having seen him in movies/tv/chat shows, maybe he wouldn't appeal to me. But I have, so he really, really does.
And don't forget about that voice. That. Voice. I don't remember ever being so affected by someone's voice before. Especially that deep voice he used in Star Trek. Oh yeah.
Johanna wrote: ""Do we ALWAYS have to listen to that Lifehouse CD?! I wanna listen to the sex scenes of Josh Lanyon audio books!" *said with a whining voice* "
Na wrote: "Feral wrote: "LOL. He's attractive in action. Part of it is the personality he projects."He has a peculiar face indeed. Big forehead, small jaw, large chin and defined upper lip. But he looks bet..."
I do like him better with longer hair. But regardless, there is something about he way he moves and the way he talks, and well... him. Sometimes a person projects something that works for me, and I can't tell you why a better face or more muscled bod doesn't do for me what some skinny, flaw-ridden wise asp does. But whatever it is, Cumberbuns has it.
Related to the discussion on the dos & don'ts of series, I'd prefer books not be labeled 'Book 1' if there is any chance that there won't be a second book. Whether it's due to an author losing interest or poor sales, I've seen potential series end at one book and I'm left forever looking for that next one. I guess that kind of labeling was meant to capitalize on the popularity of series. I know I've taken a chance on a new (or new to me) author because there was the promise of more books to come. Maybe this won't be a marketing ploy any more if the interest in series is waning. Then a series wouldn't be identified as such until book 2 comes out.
Susinok wrote: "Becky wrote: "Alison wrote: "We call him Bandersnatch too! Cucu..."Heard someone say the other day that Benedict Cumberbatch is the first actor to play Sherlock Holmes who has a more ridiculous n..."
What i find attractive/compelling about him is the personality and atmosphere and power he projects. And he does put one in mind of a sculpture somehow.
KC wrote: "Susinok wrote: "Becky wrote: "Alison wrote: "We call him Bandersnatch too! Cucu..."Heard someone say the other day that Benedict Cumberbatch is the first actor to play Sherlock Holmes who has a m..."
Also I like cheekbones. :)
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
Subtle Bodies (other topics)Husband Material (other topics)
Sing for the Coming of the Longest Night (other topics)
A Shattered Silver Crown (other topics)
A Shattered Silver Crown (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Jordan Castillo Price (other topics)Alexis Hall (other topics)
Katherine Fabian (other topics)
Iona Datt Sharma (other topics)
Cynthia Zhang (other topics)
More...
