Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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What Are you Reading?
Ije the Devourer of Books wrote: "DeniseE wrote: "Na wrote: "I'm on a shifter/werewolves phase. Any other recommendations for this theme?"I also liked the Stephani Hecht Lost Shifter series, its a long series but the books are quite short.
Na wrote: "Thank you for the recommendations, Denise, Jo, Jax, and Ije!Oh right! Iron & Velvet is out now! How is it so far, Susinok?"
So far it's good. Seems like there area a LOT of supernaturals populating this world. It reminds me of some urban fantasy series I like to read.
Susinok wrote: "Na wrote: "Thank you for the recommendations, Denise, Jo, Jax, and Ije!Oh right! Iron & Velvet is out now! How is it so far, Susinok?"
So far it's good. Seems like there area a LOT of supernatura..."
I am looking forward to your views on Iron and Velvet. I have it in my to read pile. At the moment I am reading Ghosts of Bourbon Street by Rowan Speedwell and Old Loyalty, New Love by Mary Calmes. This is a new shifter story. Both books are great so far.
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Yes, I agree about Kaje Harper's Hidden Wolves series. I've read it multiple times myself.
Iron & Velvet is fun so far. It's a huge universe populated with just about every supernatural/paranormal/mythological creature. Not sure if I can give it a 100% fair review since I'm pretty much burned out on the kick-butt urban fantasy heroine. Kate has quite a bit of noir about her, too.It's had some harsh reviews here on GR, most of which I don't really agree with.
Just finished Tomb of the God King by Julia Talbot. It was a light adventure m/m romance set at an archeology dig in 1920's Egypt. I thought it was a fun read, although a little too heavy on the sexy times for me. Could be worth a look for those who like historical adventure romance.Am nearing the end of Selume Proferre, which is an f/f urban fantasy novella. (Although one of the MCs would qualify as more gender queer than female.) Pretty interesting read so far.
ttg wrote: "ttg | 230 comments Just finished Tomb of the God King by Julia Talbot. It was a light adventure m/m romance set at an archeology dig in 1920's Egypt. I thought it was a fun read, although a little too heavy on the sexy times for me. Could be worth a look for those who like historical adventure romance.Am nearing the end of Selume Proferre, which is an f/f urban fantasy novella. (Although one of the MCs would qualify as more gender queer than female.) Pretty interesting read so far. ..."
Both of those sound fun! Especially the archaeology one.
Susinok wrote: "Iron & Velvet is fun so far. It's a huge universe populated with just about every supernatural/paranormal/mythological creature. Not sure if I can give it a 100% fair review since I'm pretty much burned out on the kick-butt urban fantasy heroine. Kate has quite a bit of noir about her, too.It's had some harsh reviews here on GR, most of which I don't really agree with."
That was the first urban fantasy I've read in forever because I got so bored of it, but I loved I&V. Hall is a very intelligent writer who does a lot of clever things on various levels, while providing unabashed genre fun.
K.J. wrote: "That was the first urban fantasy I've read in forever because I got so bored of it, but I loved I&V. Hall is a very intelligent writer who does a lot of clever things on various levels, while providing unabashed genre fun. ..."That was pretty much my assessment. I'd enjoy it more if I wasn't still so tired of the urban fantasy genre in general. I do really love Kate Kane, she is a hoot. There's a good interview at Cup'o'Porn in the Morning blog with Alexis. He set out out to deliberately bust some genre labels by making Kate a hard drinking/smoking P.I. in the old school, and he mostly succeeded.
Susinok wrote: "I do really love Kate Kane, she is a hoot."God, me too, it made me laugh out loud several times, and that very rarely happens. My favourite gag was the brilliant (view spoiler) Such a lovely throwaway line.
K.J. wrote: "Susinok wrote: "Iron & Velvet is fun so far. It's a huge universe populated with just about every supernatural/paranormal/mythological creature. Not sure if I can give it a 100% fair review since I..."Glad to hear you guys like it. I've seen some really poor reviews for it here, and I'm hoping it does well so LGBT publishers will continue to publish f/f along with m/m. I was a little sad to see such a cold reception for one of Riptide's new f/f titles.
I read Fate's Edge this weekend, which I LOVED. Somehow, I always forget how good Ilona Andrews' books are when I'm not actively reading one. :PAfter the comments here, I took a peek at the reviews for Iron & Velvet. I haven't read it yet, so I don't know if I'll agree with them or not. But the first review on the list suggested that the author borrowed heavily from a lot of other urban fantasy authors, and then went on to list a bunch of stuff that's really common- like the name Kate or a kind of creature that's existed in fairy lore for centuries (and not invented by Tolkien, tyvm)- to illustrate their point. So I'm inclined to take the criticism with a whole lot of salt.
Becky wrote: "I read Fate's Edge this weekend, which I LOVED. Somehow, I always forget how good Ilona Andrews' books are when I'm not actively reading one. :PAfter the comments here, I took a..."
I think that reviewer was just hunting for something to bitch about. She also is not that fond of urban fantasy, which she stated in her review. Ok, then. Go read something else..
I loved Fate's Edge. My favorite in that series was Bayou Moon. William's story was heartbreaking.
Susinok wrote: "Becky wrote: "I read Fate's Edge this weekend, which I LOVED. Somehow, I always forget how good Ilona Andrews' books are when I'm not actively reading one. :PAfter the comments ..."
I really like how Andrews is setting up the brothers, George and Jack, and I'm hoping that sooner or later they'll get their own stories, too.
I'm re-reading In sunshine or in shadow (because it's wonderful to visit all the characters again).Also Jim Grimsley's Comfort and Joy and Terri Jentz's fascinating and horrifying autobiography Strange Piece of Paradise.
Comfort and Joy suits the season like one of those old carols which sounds so melancholy but also uplifting.
Terri Jentz's book on the other hand will fill your head with visions of sugar plums being dismembered by ax wielding maniacs! That said it's an amazing, strange story.
Becky wrote: "I really like how Andrews is setting up the brothers, George and Jack, and I'm hoping that sooner or later they'll get their own stories, too. ..."They appear in subsequent books but I have heard that she ended the series due to lack of sales. I really wish she'd at least held out to do George and Jack's book.
Susinok wrote: "Becky wrote: "I really like how Andrews is setting up the brothers, George and Jack, and I'm hoping that sooner or later they'll get their own stories, too. ..."They appear in subsequent books bu..."
Awww. That sucks! I just put the fourth book on my Christmas list.
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Becky wrote: "Awww. That sucks! I just put the fourth book on my Christmas list. ..."Maybe after a break, George and Jack will lure her into writing their book? I keep hoping.
Ginn wrote: "I'm re-reading In sunshine or in shadow (because it's wonderful to visit all the characters again).Also Jim Grimsley's Comfort and Joy and Terri Jentz's fascinating and horrifying autobiography St..."
Comfort and Joy was wonderful, thanks for reminding me of it, it is indeed one of those books that can be reread several times. I love reading holiday stories again each year, it's like hearing the songs and carols each December, eating the traditional foods and so on, it brings that Chirstmas feeling immediately :)
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Aren't harsh reviews the norm on GR? :-)
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I think I read Tomb of the God early, early in my foray into M/M. It was a good idea but, yes, knocked off track by the pressure to start the smexin. Sexin? Whatever.
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But in fairness, you do have to judge the book by its own merits. The book may not click for readers -- but that isn't to say the right f/f book couldn't do well. I think part of the uphill battle f/f has faced is (with the exception of BEB) the best writers aren't writing f/f.
Certainly the f/f I've read has been painful and embarrassing -- even angering, given how really bad it is. I'm not including Hall here -- I haven't read his new one yet (it sounds interesting).
I think it's going to be very hard to get m/m readers to embrace f/f until such time as f/f has top notch writers working at the level of the very best writers in m/m. I haven't seen that yet.
I'm a shifter fan, but it can sometimes be done horribly. That's why I lean toward the UF/R variety: Ilona Andrews' Kate Daniels series and Patricia Briggs' Mercy Thompson series. Both have a strong romantic thread throughout but they're firmly in the UF category.Na puts it really well in describing what's appealing about the shifters themselves, but I also love the world-building. In all UF you have to fit a phenomenon into the world we recognize (Kate Daniles is post-apocalyptic, but still recognizable as a human world). If an author is really clever with that then it's a big part of the fun for me.
Josh wrote: "Okay. Someone explain to me what the charm is of shifter stories? I get requests to write shifter stories and I just...what is fun about them? What is it you guys like so much about them? What is a..."I don't love them, so if you never write one, you'll have a satisfied fan. Having said that, they don't uniformly aggravate me; some are reasonably well done shifter stories. What's interesting about them, though? Well, this is what occurs to me. Among all of the other aspects that are at play in these stories, shifter tales give writers the chance to explore the "coming out" dynamic without necessarily having to do it in the context of sexuality (e.g., one can imagine a story in which friends/family members are cool with one being gay, but totally freaked out by the fact that one is a werewolf -- I just wrote that with a straight face, lol!). Or, by contrast, the stories add even more drama to the coming out narrative (gay AND a werewolf -- oh, my!).
And then, of course, there is just the whole notion of fun with magic/paranormal themes. And you do play with that idea, so you get it on some level. ;-)
ETA: By definition, I'm obviously only talking about shifter stories in the m/m world. As for shifter stories outside of it, I don't have a clue. I suppose the same dynamics about prejudice, acceptance, and raging against the machine, if you will, might still be at play in some of the stories, and that might make them more interesting. If Twilight had had a sophisticated bone in its body, Meyer might have been able to do something really smart with the prejudice between the vampires and the werewolves. But "if" is a really powerful word. ;-)
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How are you keeping all these straight? ;-)
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Strength and power. Morphing into a new identity. Being the leader of the pack. :)"
I keep thinking of that Bill Murray line from Ghostbusters. "Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats, living together! Mass hysteria!"
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Strength and power. Morphing into a new identity. Being the leader of the pack. :)"
Okay, but really how does that differ from a lot of romance stories about someone's journey to reaching their full potential?
Certainly the f/f I've read has been painful and embarrassing -- even angering, given how really bad it is. I've been reading the Rainbow Awards f/f category for, IDK several years running and the quality is appalling. Even the books I ended up rating highest would have needed very good editing. I think the "captive audience" and lack of competition is really screwing readers looking for f/f.
I'm not a f/f reader, but years ago, I used to read Jeanette Winterson's stuff. I thought she was remarkable. Granted, I think sometimes she is more of a poet than she is a storyteller, but still, I think her voice is incredibly unique and lovely. Sexing the Cherry was one of my favorite books for awhile.
Josh wrote: "Okay. Someone explain to me what the charm is of shifter stories? I get requests to write shifter stories and I just...what is fun about them? What is it you guys like so much about them? What is a..."Really? People ask you for a shifter story? That's sort of like asking Agatha Christie to write a paranormal romance.
Just say no, Josh. Shifter stories, though superficially fun, are getting pretty old.
The f/f parts of Iron & Velvet were fine. I thought the main character was fun and amusing.I see this book more as an urban fantasy which happens to have a lesbian protagonist rather than it being lesbian fiction, because Kate Kane's orientation is not the focus of the book. Big mythological baddies and a murder investigation are the focus of the book. It's a fantasy romp with a lesbian main character.
I'm not reading m/m because I like to read about cock (though it's a side benefit). I'm reading it because the stories and situations are new to my experience. I'll read trans*, genderqueer, and f/f for the same reasons, to experience someone else's viewpoint.
It amazes me how locked into one genre some people get. Am I really that much more open minded than the average reader? I didn't think I was.
Susinok wrote: "The f/f parts of Iron & Velvet were fine. I thought the main character was fun and amusing.I see this book more as an urban fantasy which happens to have a lesbian protagonist rat..."
I just started Iron and Velvet and it's fun so far. I like that it seems to be more mystery-focused. And i like the Chandler-esque atmosphere. I read a couple of horrible reviews and one great review, but the sense of humor is there, it is intriguing, and seems to have a lot of potential. Maybe the trick is not to expect too much and then be pleasantly surprised :-)
Salsera1974 wrote: "I'm not a f/f reader, but years ago, I used to read Jeanette Winterson's stuff. I thought she was remarkable. Granted, I think sometimes she is more of a poet than she is a storyteller, but still..."Years ago, Jeanette Winterson used to be at the top of my fav writers list, no competition, her writing always so inspiring and beautiful, but at some point (around The Powerbook) it started to decline (and became depressing rather than uplifting) and sadly nowadays i don't even try her books anymore...
Sexing the Cherry is my favorite.
Aleksandr wrote: " Certainly the f/f I've read has been painful and embarrassing -- even angering, given how really bad it is. I've been reading the Rainbow Awards f/f category for, IDK several years running and ..."
I completely agree. I stopped reading f/f a while ago due to poor quality, unimaginative stories, and also the fact the something awful always seems to happen to the protags even in stories that are 90% rom-coms. What's up with that?... I'm still holding some sort of hope though...
I'd like to recommend a different take on shifters:
by Nicole Kimberling.Well written and intelligent, with a lovely romance in it. Just to talk about it makes me feel like rereading ;-).
Josh wrote: "Okay. Someone explain to me what the charm is of shifter stories? I get requests to write shifter stories and I just...what is fun about them? What is it you guys like so much about them? What is a..."It's a mystery to me, too - and I didn't understand some of the answers! ("the UF/R variety"?) Please don't be tempted Josh! You have so many "normal" books clamouring for your attention already, and lots of readers ready and waiting for them.
Josh wrote: "Okay. Someone explain to me what the charm is of shifter stories? I get requests to write shifter stories and I just...what is fun about them? What is it you guys like so much about them? What is a..."I don't really like shifter stories, i find that a lot of them tend to be slightly...gross (sorry!). Also, I don't like that some of them create very unequal relationships and dependencies.
However, there are two shifter stories that i absolutely loved - one is Nicole's Turnskin (not your usual shifter story and so very awesome!) and the second, which had more regular shifting - Ginn's Shy Hunter - such a sweet story, but again it really depends on how this shifting is introduced, its purpose, its role in character development.
Antonella wrote: "I'd like to recommend a different take on shifters: by Nicole Kimberling.Well written and intelligent, with a lovely romance in it. Just to talk about it makes me fee..."
Heh. I just posted about Turnskin too. If only more shifter stories were so good.
Antonella wrote: "And you quoted also Shy Hunter. The first story by Ginn I read, and I was hooked.":-)
KC - I hope f/f will develop along the lines of m/m, but right now, it's about 6-7 years behind this sub-genre in terms of development. Sadly. I really, really want to support more of the rainbow, but I end up buying only Sarah Waters.
Aleksandr wrote: "KC - I hope f/f will develop along the lines of m/m, but right now, it's about 6-7 years behind this sub-genre in terms of development. Sadly. I really, really want to support more of the rainbow, ..."I find Sarah Waters way too angsty, though if you like that kinda thing, she does write really well. I used to like Emma Donoghue (Hood, Kissing the Witch), Jane Fletcher (Celaeno series), and Justine Saracen (The 100th Generation and Vulture's Kiss), but that still amounts to very few. And what's more frustrating is that even when i stumble across a good one, the author seems to have written only one or two books...
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Well, you're certainly in position to help make that happen. So that's hopeful right there.
Years ago before I was aware of m/m, I read Venus Envy by Rita Mae Brown. From there I read a lot of her other non-mystery fiction. Many of them had lesbian side characters or main characters. Those books were so very good! And they were NOT depressing or lit-fic. I think her best known one is Rubyfruit Jungle.
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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Hi Na, Good m\m shifter books can be hard to find – here are some of the ones I liked, I’m not sure if you ..."
I really like the Brac Series for my lighthearted shifter stories. These are by Lynn Hagen starting with Maverick's Mate She has some other shifter series and they can all be read as separate series or together because some of the series can be linked.
Stephani Hecht had two shifter series which are enjoyable. They can become a bit predictable but they fit in nicely between longer books. I really enjoyed Scarlet Hyacinth Mate or Meal shifter series.