Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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What Are you Reading?
Mod
No. I think M/M is about the romantic focus of the book. To say that all M/M has to have sex is like saying ALL romance has to have sex.
Granted, most M/M does have sex, but then most romance has sex. Readers like sex. Writers like sex.
I've never written a sex scene I didn't think was necessary or added to the book.
Mod
No, I'm sorry. In comparison with other fantasy I've read, I found it weak. And it's not a matter of date, see ''Alice in Wonderland''."
I wonder what I would think of it now. I read it when I was young enough to be troubled by differences between book and movie.
Mod
out of curiosity, what would the book be labeled if not m/m or romance?
Mod
No. I spend what I can afford and I find I can usually afford what I really want. ;-)
That thread is deliberately provocative. The whole "M/M is popcorn" comment is designed to get a reaction. Would any thinking person really dismiss an entire genre?
Mainstream ebook prices are inching up. In fact, not too long ago I read an article on how Amazon is slowly and very quietly raising prices on text books and a lot of non-fiction.
Indie book prices are still well below the mainstream, but they're going to go up too.
Surely no one really thought there would never be a price increase in ebooks? EVERYTHING goes up in price. Nothing stays at its original price. In that respect, books are no different from any other product. And why would they be?
Mod
If anything more ebooks are underpriced than over priced in this and most other genres.
You can't have it both ways. You can't insist that you want books with nice covers, professional editing, pristine formatting -- and you want it dirt cheap.
Those things don't come dirt cheap.
Josh wrote: "out of curiosity, what would the book be labeled if not m/m or romance?"I believe Rhys thinks of it as urban fantasy with gay characters, not m/m romance.
K.Z. wrote: "Do any of you know what AO3 is? One commenter made a reference to it, but I've no clue what she was talking about.I admit I've downloaded a good amount of legitimately free fiction, but, more oft..."
I personally love AO3, partially because they automatically have ebook versions for all their stories and they have a great filtering system.
It's mostly geared towards fandom readers though, so if you like Stargate or Glee or Supernatural or James Bond or Merlin, you'll find a wealth of writing there, some not-so-awesome, some fine, some AMAZING. If you're geared towards looking through fan works, the system works great, and I've definitely found some absolutely amazing fanfiction novels. Sometimes I'm surprised when writers put their heart into a novel they can never sell, but I think for them, it's just the joy of writing it, and often, the fan community they're writing to, and that's enough for them. (A few repackage their fanfics into original novels, but I think that's the minority still.)
There is also original fiction on AO3, but it's harder to gauge, and you end up leaning on recommendations, just like the recs for free online fics that have popped up here like The God Eaters, The Student Prince, or Close Protection. (That's when the "friend filter" REALLY helps.)
Anyone can read stories on AO3, whether or not you're "signed in" to the site, and to have a profile (where you can post stories too), you have to apply, but it's just a wait, and not an approval process at all. Probably the wait is faster now. I think my wait was a month late last year. (It didn't stop me from reading fics though.) :) It's a fun site if you life fan works.
Mod
I think there are plenty of readers out there who are genuinely happy with sticking to what's available for free. And that's fine. But, though vocal, they're a minority.
As big as Goodreads is, it's still only a teeny tiny star in the book buying universe.
Speaking of books, I stopped by the University Book Store today prior to the reading event tonight with Ginn Hale, Astrid Amara, Laylah Hunter, and Angela Benedetti, and they had the books out that will be for sale.
Blurry, I know (and that's Irregulars on the bottom right), but I do think it's SO COOL to see gay romance novels in a bookstore. :D
I'm pretty cheap when it comes to book-buying (I'm in that discussion KZ linked too as the person who likes ebooks between $4-$7), but I'm still planning on plunking down some cash for some of these books tonight. It would be great to have a paperback to go alone with an ebook that you love.
Mod
Some people just want to read something all the time and they aren't *that* picky. For them having something to read all the time is the main thing, and that is probably an expensive habit. For them all the free fiction out there is a wonderful thing.
But mainstream publishing charges what it does because the market will bear it.
I'm not suggesting we all start charging mainstream prices, but I'm not going to price my work to appeal to someone who would be just as happy reading fan fiction.
And I say that as someone who loves fan fiction.
Mod
It's a pretty new fanfiction-archi..."
Was she joining as an author of fan fiction or an author of an article about a fan fiction topic? Because yes, I believe they do attempt to control the quality of the articles.
And more power to them.
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I don't understand either.
But, as you say, this is not something authors control. That's all Amazon.
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..."
I'm not sure I understand?
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I've seen original fic there, too. It was set up to serve fandom by hosting fanfiction though, if I remem..."
I know! It's fantastic. I dream of the Circuit Archive joining with AO3 and having all those stories available in mobi!
Mod
I believe Rhys thinks of it as urban fantasy with gay characters, not m/m romance."
That could very well be.
For example, I think Strange Fortune is fantasy with gay characters rather than an M/M romance.
Josh wrote: "Surely no one really thought there would never be a price increase in ebooks? EVERYTHING goes up in price."Yeah, well . . . What I gleaned from two or three of the comments was, Why pay for popcorn -- which could be stale, burnt, over- or undersalted, dry or soggy with butter -- when you can get popcorn for free?
Apparently, the only way to garner the approval of such readers is give your work away. They can just pitch it if they don't like it and not feel ripped off.
Mod
Yeah, well . . . What I gleaned from two or three of the comments was, Why..."
One interesting comment was that readers were a finite pool. But of course that's wrong. Readers are an infinite and constantly changing pool. There is not one single thing finite about the reading "pool." In fact, stream is more to the point because readers are in motion. New ones are constantly flooding in, old ones are constantly flooding out.
It was interesting to hear a reader's perception. And it probably explains why these readers believe that their choosing to read free fiction would have significant impact. They think of themselves as a limited and restricted audience.
ttg wrote: "Sometimes I'm surprised when writers put their heart into a novel they can never sell, but I think for them, it's just the joy of writing it, and often, the fan community they're writing to, and that's enough for them. (A few repackage their fanfics into original novels, but I think that's the minority still.)..."
Funny thing is that my current love of m/m fiction came about from following one of my favorite fanfic authors out into "the real world." As long as I was already buying some of her books at the m/m publisher's site, I looked to find a few more, and voila a new passion was born.
AO3 is a great resource for fanfic or original fic, but starting from scratch to try to find good stories might be intimidating. Thorny was looking for some Supernatural fics a few months ago and I searched for it on AO3. There were over 49,000 fics! And I'm not exaggerating. I did a few sorts and managed to get it down to 3133 fics to recommend to him. Ack! You can usually tell the better ones by the number of "kudos" they have received.
Here is a Goodreads group for reading legitimately free m/m fiction: http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/6...
I admit I haven't joined that group, since I already have about 40 purchased m/m books on my Nook right now, along with 8 fanfics downloaded from AO3. Not to mention print books galore. But others may not be able to spend the money.
Josh wrote: "Tharayn wrote: "Lillian wrote: "Tharayn wrote: "K.Z. wrote: "Do any of you know what AO3 is? One commenter made a reference to it, but I've no clue what she was talking about."It's a pretty new ..."
When I joined, which was quite recently, it was simply to be able to take advantage of their Bookmark system. Since I stopped writing fanfic (but not reading it) when I sent my first original book out for submission I haven't bothered to upload any stories there.
I didn't realise they published articles, qualilty control in that regard might be a completely different matter, but the qualilty of the fiction is the same as anywhere else (including published works). Some is good, some is bad, some is nothing but porn and some is wasted being given away for free.
As for fanfiction, don't we all love it really (I have a whole folder of it I've downloaded to take on holiday alongside my published reading). Hell most of us wouldn't be here without it in some form or another.
Mod
I believe Rhys thinks of it as urban fantasy with gay characters, not m/m romance."
I agree. That's why I'd list it with Kim Harrison's The Hollows, or Seanan McGuire's October Daye books, Stacia Kane's Downside series. Each of these have romantic interests, but that's not the focus, or the only focus. Rhys's MCs seem to be bi, but the focus is on a m/m relationship. Some of Harrison's characters are bi, but the focus is m/f. The others are m/f.
Karen wrote: "K.Z. wrote: "Josh wrote: "out of curiosity, what would the book be labeled if not m/m or romance?"I believe Rhys thinks of it as urban fantasy with gay characters, not m/m romance."
I agree. Tha..."
I agree as well, and that is how I read the book, very dark, gritty urban fantasy with gay or bi MC's. But she apparently got some grief from readers who call it m/m and therefore want sex. Which wouldn't have suited the story at this point. Perhaps they think since she also write m/m mysteries, she has to stick to one formula? I don't know. I am happy for authors who bring their talent and craft to various genres and styles.
I liked the book very much btw and will surely read the next in the series. :)
Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "I have just started Black Dog Blues by Rhys Ford. It is a fantasy with a rather new spin on the world building, very well thought out I think. And the book is very good so far with a v..."Yes, and I love them the more for it. I sometimes wish other authors could follow that example, but that is of course their choice. As it is mine to not reading a book that is bogged down with repetitive, boring sex scenes in stead of developing a story or the characters. But that is only one woman's perspective, not the objective truth :)
ttg wrote: "Speaking of books, I stopped by the University Book Store today prior to the reading event tonight with Ginn Hale, Astrid Amara, Laylah Hunter, and Angela Benedetti, and they had the books out that..."Oh, shiny!
Josh wrote: "Ame wrote: "The other thing that pisses me off is when authors write an ordinary length novel... cut it down in maybe 5-6 chapters and sell it off for the prize of an ordinary book. That I do not b..."It's something that happens a lot during translations where I am. I know it especially from fantasy series. I guess it's publishers of the translated version that decide to cut an originally 500 pages long novel into half and market two 250 pages novels. Each for the price of the whole paperback.
Maybe they justify it by saying that they don't want the fans to keep waiting? I don't know.
An example: The Last Rune series by Mark Anthony has originally 6 books. In German translation there are 12.
This habit produces some awkward cliffhangers too...
Josh wrote: "In fact, not too long ago I read an article on how Amazon is slowly and very quietly raising prices on text books and a lot of non-fiction. ..."My heart sank when I read this (as I have had to buy some academic texts from university reading lists and will have to buy more in the future). I'm already reeling at how expensive they are. I had assumed the justification is the limited market together with the years of research needed to write them. But the prices should not increase - they are almost unaffordable already.
Josh wrote: "I dream of the Circuit Archive joining with AO3 and having all those stories available in mobi! "That would be wonderful!
Calathea wrote: "Josh wrote: "Ame wrote: "The other thing that pisses me off is when authors write an ordinary length novel... cut it down in maybe 5-6 chapters and sell it off for the prize of an ordinary book. Th..."At least you get two full length novels out of it so.... what I'm talking about is when a 180 page book is cut into 5-6 parts and each part is sold separately for 3.99 or 4.99 and you end up paying maybe 20 dollars in the end. I see an increase of this in contemporary and erotica and I don't like it.
Ame wrote: "KC wrote: "Ame wrote: "K.Z. wrote: "BTW, it does make me nervous as a writer to hear people grousing about the cost of digital books, which is why I asked for your input. But what puts me off is wh..."What i meant was that I assumed that if i buy an e-book from any amazon the writer would get the same amount of royalties, but that seems not to be the case. So the writer would get a certain percentage if the book is bought at amazon.com but less if it's bought at amazon.ca, for example.
Anne wrote: "I sometimes wish other authors could follow that example, but that is of course their choice. As it is mine to not reading a book that is bogged down with repetitive, boring sex scenes in stead of developing a story or the characters."The problem for Rhys with this book (and I'm sure it will amount to a nothing more than a hiccup, given her popularity) is that she built her reputation on being a genre author -- and she suddenly deviated from genre norms. A writer's backlist determines readers' expectations.
I'm sure that's what keeps genre writers from being more adventurous. We know what our readers expect and how our sales will suffer if we don't meet those expectations. After having written romance for ten years (m/f then m/m), I sure as heck wouldn't mind dispensing with the obligatory sex scenes and the obligatory HEA or HFN. But my royalties would be even crappier than they are now!
K.Z. wrote: "Anne wrote: "I sometimes wish other authors could follow that example, but that is of course their choice. As it is mine to not reading a book that is bogged down with repetitive, boring sex scenes..."I can see that point. I guess some readers, like me, will follow an author we like across the genres, while many who like to stick to one or two genres for their reading will not. And maybe drop the autor later even if she goes back to the genre she started out in. And you can't know how many of each kind in your audience, so yes, it must be a risk.
Hj wrote: "Josh wrote: "In fact, not too long ago I read an article on how Amazon is slowly and very quietly raising prices on text books and a lot of non-fiction. ..."My heart sank when I read this (as I h..."
Textbooks are such a rip-off! The pool of publishers have decreased due to acquisition and consolidation. The junior college I just graduated from seemed to favor only two publishers, and sometimes the professor didn't even use the book. The college required professors to have a book for class, but when there are no assignments, why force students to buy? You learn to wait for the professor to tell you if she/he is going to use it. Or wait for the syllabus to be released to see if you can get away with just using the reserve copy at the library. But waiting that long makes all the difference between being able to obtain a cheaper used copy through AMZ or elsewhere, you run the risk that you will be forced to pay full price as you can't fall behind on your work.
Anne wrote: "I can see that point. I guess some readers, like me, will follow an author we like across the genres, while many who like to stick to one or two genres for their reading will not. And maybe drop the autor later even if she goes back to the genre she started out in. And you can't know how many of each kind in your audience, so yes, it must be a risk. ..."It always surprises me how narrow some readers are. If you deviate from the given genre, they go on the attack sometimes. Crazy.
One author I follow has three pseudonyms. Jennifer Ashely - Historical Romance and PNR, Allyson James - urban fantasy, and Allyson Gardner - historical mystery. Thing is she is fantastic at each genre she plays in, and you would be doing yourself a disservice if you followed only one... her versatility (with good quality) is amazing.
Lou wrote: "Averin wrote: "Textbooks are such a rip-off! The pool of publishers have decreased due to acquisition and consolidation. The junior college I just graduated from seemed to favor only two publishers..."AMZ always beat campus bookstore. I'm waiting for the book lists to be released from the university I transferred to, but I expect AMZ will still be cheaper.
I am listening to Hot Head by Damon Suede and, as I said, I'm happy to re-visit these characters. I have forgotten how, ahem, explicit it is. I listened to a very graphic and detailed and LONG sex scene on the way to work this morning. Whoa.I'm not quite prepared for this at 7am..
K.Z. wrote: "Here's an interesting little discussion thread about ebook pricing: http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/.... Do you have a spending limit based on a book's length? Do you think more and ..."I answered this yesterday but it never showed up. I hope that isn't going to start happening regularly again. :(
Anyway, Since I have been beta reading I know a lot of authors, and I do feel a bit guilty about my penny pinching ways. But I figure you authors want to know my real opinions and habits, so here it is.
I have paid $10 for an ebook exactly once - First Against the Wall. I felt I owed it to the author to buy something since I read her stuff for free on her website. I would bet that most potential readers are scared off by that price point. If I want to read a $14 mainstream published book I'll get it from the library. I generally don't feel any obligation to support authors, other than buying something if I have read a bunch of their free stuff (Manna Francis, Parhelion, Matthew Haldeman-Time).
I like to pay about $5-$6 for a novel-length book. I can't justify it exactly, but this is the price that feels right to me for an ebook that I can't sell or lend more that once (if that). I will go a bit higher if I like the author, or I can lend it, or the book really intrigues me - but as the price goes up I tend to start looking for it on ARe or seeing if I can borrow it. I'm guessing I buy about 8-10 books a month, including audiobooks? Hard to say because it goes in spates. I usually buy at Amazon so my books are lendable. I think the publishers ought to enable this (and have a "send to my Kindle" button!), because I know authors get a higher royalty if you buy their books from the publisher.
I read lots of free stuff and fan fiction as well. I disagree that free stuff isn't as good as published. Maybe the average quality is lower, but the best of it is better than most published work. Most of the best short stories I have ever read are from Shousetsu Bang*Bang (http://s2b2.livejournal.com), and AOOO (http://archiveofourown.org) is awesome - I start with most bookmarked and learn which authors I like and which readers have similar tastes (pretty much like starting with reviews for published work). I donate to AOOO every year too. If I were in a poor stage of life, I could get by with free stuff, but luckily I have some money for entertainment. I've had more to spend in the past, but I've had way less too.
And before ebooks when I was poor I went to the library and borrowed from friends and bought used books. So it isn't like reading for free is a new thing. A lot of people spend little or nothing on reading and always have. And I really can't see anything wrong with that as long as they aren't pirating. Those people aren't your potential customers and can be ignored. Most of us like getting to where we can buy some of what we want. (But you can certainly scare us off with high prices.)
So I would say price in the middle of the pack and don't worry about people who only want things for free - they aren't your customers. Put some free stuff out there to hook people on your work. Yeah, the non-spenders will read it and not buy your published stuff. But the rest of us who do buy books have way too many choices and are going to resist spending money on an author we know nothing about. I really don't think you are well-advised to scold your readers for liking freebies or assume out loud they are buying a Mochaccino every day with money they should be spending on your books. :-) I doubt this ever works - it certainly puts my back up.
Susinok wrote: "It always surprises me how narrow some readers are. If you deviate from the given genre, they go on the attack sometimes. Crazy."That seems a little harsh to me. There is nothing wrong with wanting to read a particular kind of book and being disappointed when it turns out to be something different. I avoid non-happy endings like the plague, for example.
Marginally related to the topic: I had already bookmarked this Sandman Slipcase Set to buy. Then I decided that I did want the nicer edition ''The Absolute Sandman''. That is I'm going to invest in it EUR 290 instead of some EUR 100.Although I'm absolutely independent, sometimes I'm still trapped in the way of thinking of my family: you are not supposed to waste money on things you just like but don't need. You should save for harder times.
Given that I save automatically because I'm not interested in many things on which other people spend their money, I revendicate my right to splurge in books! *talking to herself*
Lou wrote: "I'm not sure there was Amazon when I went to college. Actually, I'm pretty sure there wasn't. (Except the rainforest variety.)"Ha! Same here. I had no choice but to buy from the University Bookstore, except when it came to my lit courses. Used copies of fictional works were more widely available, and at much lower prices.
Antonella wrote: "Marginally related to the topic: I had already bookmarked this Sandman Slipcase Set to buy. Then I decided that I did want the nicer edition ''The Absolute Sandman''. That is I'm going to invest in..."You get my full support (if you need it)! I do recognise what you are talking about :)
Mod
It's not as if I'm buying expensive video games, or I have to have the latest and greatest designer purse. (uh, purse? What the heck is a purse? I've had this backpack nearly 10 years and I intend to get to the 10 year mark before I trade it in for a new one. lol) Yep, I rarely buy lots of things like that.
Though I am expanding my CD collection. I need music to keep me awake while I read you know! And my collection is pretty old and pathetic. But even there, I'm not buying a hundred at a time or anything.
Antonella - Funny how that family programming persists. I remember my father telling me I was a "wastrel" and would "end in the poorhouse" every time I bought something not absolutely vital (in that case, I bought two reduced music CDs for like 10 EUR each). On one hand, I still sometimes hear that voice, on the other, I'm the only financially sound member of my family (without having had to resort to trickery, shenanigans, or marrying a rich person). So, yeah. If it gives you joy, buy it. Especially books. :)
Charming wrote: "I really don't think you are well-advised to scold your readers for liking freebies or assume out loud they are buying a Mochaccino every day with money they should be spending on your books. :-) I doubt this ever works - it certainly puts my back up."Readers liking freebies isn't the issue -- at least not for me. I'm as big a tightwad as anyone, primarily because I have to be.
What I'm bothered by is the implication that genre fiction isn't worth paying for. Buried within that implication is another, more insidious message: the threat that if writers want their work to be read, they'd damned well better give it away. (Granted, only a very small percentage of readers feel that way, but I've definitely seen the feeling expressed. And that's what raises my hackles.)
Charming wrote: "That seems a little harsh to me. There is nothing wrong with wanting to read a particular kind of book and being disappointed when it turns out to be something different. I avoid non-happy endings like the plague, for example. ..."There are books that are not in the romance genre that end well.
What I meant was even more specific, though. I know that, for a RL example, an urban fantasy writer is criticized for having a paranormal romance series! To me the genres are very similar, enough to not really make a difference to me. But the urban fantasy/paranormal line is so blurry to me as to barely exist. And BOTH series by that author are fantastic! But she gave up on the PNR series and won't finish it out because sales were not as good as her main series. Sad, really.
Susinok wrote: "What I meant was even more specific, though. I know that, for a RL example, an urban fantasy writer is criticized for having a paranormal romance series! To me the genres are very similar, enough to not really make a difference to me. But the urban fantasy/paranormal line is so blurry to me as to barely exist. And BOTH series by that author are fantastic! But she gave up on the PNR series and won't finish it out because sales were not as good as her main series. Sad, really.Sometimes the issue is related to reader confusion though. I do think pseudonyms do work well for different genres. (And many authors use pseudonyms for m/f work and m/m work.)
For Rhys and her new urban fantasy, it might be easier to label it very clearly "Gay Fiction/Urban Fantasy", and steer far away from any romance label. It's that closeness to the m/m romance (and the expectations linked to it) that are probably leading to some reader confusion (and for some, unhappiness.)
The author can't do anything about it, but it's not helping her cause that so many people insert the book into the romance category, so they're starting out at the gate with a strong romance expectation. (You can see the shelves that people are using to categorize it on the GR page, which includes romance, m/m romance, and paranormal romance: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17...)
Rhys in a way also doesn't help her cause of focusing on urban fantasy (rather than m/m) in her own GR author review where she also emphasizes the potential love interest of Ryder "Ryder, however, has other ideas. He intends to have Kai in his bed. That's pretty much a given in his mind." http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
Seeing something like that from the author, it's easy for me to see that a romance reader who is used to Ford's other m/m works might incorrectly assume that this has a strong m/m romance subplot (as opposed to an urban fantasy formula that might string a romance out longer over several books.)
In cases like these, if the author wants to keep using their name that they have developed with a specific genre and audience, it might be more useful to have clear labels in the blurb, etc, just to try to get people to start with more realistic expectations. Someone will probably still leave a review of "Where's the romance??? Rawr!" but it will be more on the reader then, and not on the author.
ttg wrote: "For Rhys and her new urban fantasy, it might be easier to label it very clearly "Gay Fiction/Urban Fantasy", and steer far away from any romance label. It's that closeness to the m/m romance (and the expectations linked to it) that are probably leading to some reader confusion (and for some, unhappiness.)"I'm sure that's it. Correct labeling and a blurb and cover that aren't misleading are SO important when it comes to a book's reception.
Aleksandr wrote: "Antonella - Funny how that family programming persists."It's maddening, you mean...
Today I really had an epiphany with the ''good'' edition of ''The Sandman''.
I suppose it is normal to fall back again and again. The important thing is to notice it.
Aleksandr wrote: "So, yeah. If it gives you joy, buy it. Especially books. :)"
Which reminds me that I've just ordered Unhinge the Universe on paper ;-).
Averin wrote: "The junior college I just graduated from seemed to favor only two publishers, and sometimes the professor didn't even use the book. The college required professors to have a book for class, but when there are no assignments, why force students to buy? You learn to wait for the professor to tell you if she/he is going to use it..."Too right! At first I was really keen and got hold of all the books (second hand if possible) and even looked at some of them (!) and then the professor would say: oh, that's X's book list from last year. I want to use *these* books" or "oh no, you don't need to read all those" etc.! But as you say it's a cleft stick, because if you wait then others snap up the few second-hand copies of the latest edition.
Lou - I hate trying to read a book someone else has highlighted or underlined. I can't read the other sentences!!
Charming wrote: "Susinok wrote: "It always surprises me how narrow some readers are. If you deviate from the given genre, they go on the attack sometimes. Crazy."That seems a little harsh to me. There is nothing wrong with wanting to read a particular kind of book and being disappointed when it turns out to be something different. I avoid non-happy endings like the plague, for example. ..."
It's all about the information provided before you buy. If that's accurate then people don't buy the book that's wrong for them and shouldn't complain if they do. If an author is going to change her genre or add a new element (e.g. paranormal) then that should be made clear!
I do think that using different pseudonyms for different types of books is sensible, and you can retain your goodwill and the following of those who don't mind by publicising it and linking your websites etc..
Anne wrote: "Antonella wrote: "Marginally related to the topic: I had already bookmarked this Sandman Slipcase Set to buy. Then I decided that I did want the nicer edition ''The Absolute Sandman''. That is I'm ...You get my full support (if you need it)! I do recognise what you are talking about :)"
Mine too. Money spent on books is money well spent. If you *have* to justify it, regard it as a donation to the author.
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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I seriously loved Regularly Scheduled Life.....