Why don't the Brits like indie writers? (or is just me?)

[Timothy]

Hi,
Paul Rix here, I'd like to add my ten peneth, I, like S.A went the POD route to publish my firat book, I now have another out there via the same company, and the follow up I am working on will be published the same way.
I spend a lot of time at all manner of festivals and events promoting my books. Now get this, I wasn't allowed to use my local book festival ,[the King's Lynn fiction festival:] to launch my current book,you can hardly believe why.
Last year I was there with my first effort, one hell of a good story but I will conceed not very well written, one of the guest speakers, a south african 'school maam' complained to a couple of the commitee that having a 'vanity publisher' there lowered the tone. Maybe it could have been I sold more copies of my book than she did? or am I being cynical.
Now I have learned a lot about writing since then, I still have a huge amount to learn from the tecnical point of view, but from the readability point of view I dare put my current one beside ANY of the current crop of thriller/terrorist fiction out there. I am a patient, easy going sort of chap, but the next numpty who says, "oh it's not a 'proper' book" is very likely to get gently patted on the head with it!
Currently I am working with Sue [S.A.:] in trying to get Indi authors up and running, finding ways to get at least the best independantly produced books into the domain of the book buying public, so potential readers at least have the choice.
The real problem is the 'establishment' have things pretty well stitched up as most mass media outlets are owned by multi national groups which have a publisher in their portfolio, so the won't give the time of day to anything which might pinch even a tiny %age of their potential market.
I dissagree with one of the previous posts, the big boys are scared, they didn't think of it, they, for the most part don't understand it, so true digital print on demand 'aren't proper books'.
There is a stubbon ill informed hard core, snobs is a good description of them, from the publishing elite who decry the way we publish out of fear! Fear that pod spells the end of their own little private money making machine, bring it on, then writers will all get a fair crack of the whip to make a living based on merit rather than who knows their great aunt or god father!
Thanks for reading my rant,
all the best
Paul Rix [oldgeezer:]

[S.A.]

Stephen wrote: "Do either of you actually think my advice was bad?"

It makes a valid point Stephen - pissing off potential readers isn't good marketing. But you should appreciate that the sort of behaviour you complain about arises from the frustration of having no professional marketing and sales support. Why should we expect writers to be marketing professionals????

As someone who is both a writer and a marketing professional, I can tell you they require very different personality traits.

Authors who self-promote are not selling you their painting-by-numbers "masterpiece". In many (if not most) cases they are putting in front of you a work they have poured their soul into and often worked far harder to craft than authors turning out "best-sellers" two-a-penny.

Can you not forgive them a little over-enthusiasm?

[Gary]

I'm debuting author with a UK independent publisher and I have to admit that the attitudes of, for example, the mainstream press are a rather significant obstacle.

I am, however, finding book stores far more receptive and encouraging than I had been led to believe. As long as the author is prepared to contact stores individually they can, in my experience, pretty much guarantee decent in-store coverage.

Something I have found quite surprising, however, is the attitude of some of my fellow authors. Many seem quite content to simply sign a few books at their local store and leave it at that. They seem to believe from day one that their book can't sell well because it's from an independent publisher -- a brand of defeatism I can understand, but one to which I hope I never fall victim.

[Timothy]

From Paul Rix,
Good luck Gary, it is a good, if slightly scarery feeling holding that first book, if it is any help to you in your future endevours it is even better the second time! I know this because my second book is much better written than the first.
You didn't say if your book was 'limited or short run' printing or print on demand.
The problem with the book chains is they demand sale or return, and must be supplied via Gardiners or Bertram Books. Many, many people have tried this route and only a tiny handful have succeeded, they usually end up a few months down the line with most of their books back and still waiting for what little is owed to them for another month or so.
Waterstones demand, and get a heafty discount from Gardiners, they also take a minimum of 40% of the price the book is sold at. Then to send any unsold books back and get a full credit on them seems a bit rich to me, not to mention the length of time they take to pay!!! Having said all this I find it remarkable they stay in business, not only because of
the silly discounts, and the 'dry, sterile' nature of
the bulk of the books on offer from the major publishers but the mind blowing rents and business rates they have to find, all down to greed. A tiny 450 sq, ft. shop in the high street of an ordinary little market town can be 20grand, just for rent! and rates will be nearly half that again. So in defence of Waterstones and their likes no wonder there is very little left for the author, who can ill afford
to get caught with a garage full of books.
This is why I chose print on demand, I get a much better quality product, I get only those books I need, when I need them, yes they are dearer, but they are a great deal better than the mass market books.
I do book signings all over, festivals, book shows
as well as in shops, yes I could do more to promote my books, the second one is certainly worth it. Even if I had the money I still wouldn't pay out much for publicity as there are already far too many people taking far too much out of authors pockets and doing s... all for their money.
Rant over [for now:] and all the very best of luck to Gary with his first book, never be scared to dream!!
All the best,
Paul Rix [old geezer:]

[Stephen]

Sue Rule wrote: "But you should appreciate that the sort of behaviour you complain about arises from the frustration of having no professional marketing and sales support. ... Can you not forgive them a little over-enthusiasm?

I didn't complain about that behaviour, I just said it wasn't a good way to promote your books. If what I said was true, how can it show "the kind of prejudice that dismays me" or "such extreme and incomprehensible resentment"?

Just because the advice doesn't suit you doesn't mean that it is bad advice, or that it results from "a spiteful jealousy of anyone with a more generous spirit"!

Anyway, nice to see you at FantasyCon. Hope you had a good time.

[Melissa]

I would imagine it's the same kind of mentality that Americans have.
A lot of people won't read self-published books because they think they're poorly edited. This seems like it's fairly common in America.
As for independent publishers we generally don't hear about books from them as much because they often don't have the kind of marketing budgets that big publishers have. I think some people might also think if independent publishers don't have big marketing budgets, then they won't have enough to hire good editors either, but that's just a guess on my part.

[E.G.]

2009 - Just before indie and self-published books started setting sales records. Back then, 'indie' was most heavily associated with romance houses like Ellora's Cave. Romance novels have never had much respect.

I agree Melissa - marketing is an issue for a lot of small press/indies simply due to the costs. And there are enough poorly edited books out there to raise eyebrows - although some are from major publishers.

Other than a few die-hard, stick-in-the-muds, I don't really find a lot of bias against indies. In my experience, the average Kindle/Nook/ipad user couldn't distinguish an indie from a traditional publication. It's all in the marketing.

[Alicia]

Melissa wrote: "I would imagine it's the same kind of mentality that Americans have.
A lot of people won't read self-published books because they think they're poorly edited. This seems like it's fairly common in..."

Because of that very mentality, I learned to edit properly and take great pride in the results. But people won't be able to tell the difference unless they start and read an indie book.

It is very discouraging to be treated based on other people's behavior (and lack of editing skills or help).

I hope to be part of the indie wave which slowly erodes those prejudices. I'd also really like to get more UK and Irish readers - Amazon has separate review sets for UK and US, so the reviews are not visible in the UK.

For indies, it's an uphill battle. Some of us take writing literary-quality work very seriously.