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Quality control for indie authors... is there a way?
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Margaret
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Jun 18, 2013 02:47AM
Hello, I don't know whether or not you are aware of this, but there is already a group, set up by authors and reviewers I believe, that accepts for listing and promotion only books that have been reviewed by highly qualified people, such as those with degrees in English, or published mainstream authors. This group has a Facebook page in addition to its own site. I am a member of this group.
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I'm glad I came across this thread - it was an enjoyable read! And now I feel motivated to chip in my own non-partisan opinion... (I love oxymorons).The one thing that is not being debated here is that the publishing industry is in state of flux; the debate seems to be over where it's headed. I personally see the revolution as a shift from a publisher-driven market to a reader-driven market. When Amazon opened the doors to authors to self publish, every would-be author stepped up to challenge. And now the question is, how can you tell a good author from a bad one?
Well, if we truly are bravely going forward into a market where readers decide what they want to read, we have our answer. Readers will read, they will tell others what they've read, and word of mouth will either make or break an author. A bad book will get bad reviews. A good book will get good reviews. I mean, has anyone ever read a truly awful novel and then picked up the phone to tell their buddies, "Hey, I just read the worst friggin' book of my life. You should buy it. The grammar is awful." No. You either don't finish and don't write a review, or you warn others away. That said, warning others away is still a form a publicity.
As a self-published author, I've done a lot of research about marketing my book (and oddly enough, I haven't done much marketing...) and I've come to the conclusion the one sure fire way to have a bestseller on your hands is to write a great story. While grammar and punctuation is important (and God help us when it no longer is), the recent success stories of Amanda Hocking and E.L. James tells us its not as important as the story itself. However, Amanda Hocking does tout the importance of beta readers and how central they were to her success. Hence, we come full circle back to a reader-led industry. Beta readers are not paid, but their opinions can make or break a book... which is true for both traditionally published and self published authors.
Personally, I like that the market is catering to the reader instead of the publisher. The diversity of available literature has never been greater. And while the current deluge of indies is a bit like sifting through sewage (as Richard pointed out in his rant on page 1) there are readers out there that embrace searching through the chunks for that diamond ring. As a writer, maybe your first book won't be the diamond, but keep at it. Your second, third or even fourth might be the winner.
I guess in my humble, mixed up way I'm trying to say there is no guaranteed formula in today's market. But if you're writer who truly loves the craft, don't stop writing.
Oh, and by the way, I invite writers to check out http://readersfavorite.com They are a professional review company that does both free and paid reviews. Although they review well-known traditionally published authors, their first love is indies. And yes, they give out shiny stickers :)
S.M. wrote: "I'm glad I came across this thread - it was an enjoyable read! And now I feel motivated to chip in my own non-partisan opinion... (I love oxymorons).The one thing that is not being debated here i..."
A great thread and S.M. brings up some good points (and thanks for the link).
I'm only on my second book so I lack the experience of many others but have critical thing I've learned about QA is the need for multiple eyes reviewing the work. After looking at the same pages multiple times, you see what you expect and not what is there.
I'm fortunate that I have someone to help do the initial continuity and grammar review but we've missed things during the first run book (major egg on my face because I'm very impatient and wanted it out the door). Unfortunately the grammar issues were caught when another friend formally reviewed my book for Amazon/Goodreads. So moral of the story is read it aloud one final time before you self publish (or get a friend's review). :o) I found that really helps find issues.
Shannon wrote: " So moral of the story is read it aloud one final time before you self publish (or get a friend's review.."I've found a couple of techniques that help, but they all require patience. The first is to put your work aside, especially if it's a first draft, and let yourself forget the story. Three weeks minimum, but three months would be better. This not only allows you to see what's written [instead of what's in your head], but it also makes grammar, awkward prose, pov-hopping, typos and a host of other 'sins' just about jump off the page at you.
Another technique for that final polish is to use a program like Calibre to convert your MS to a Kindle compatible format which you can then load up and read as a naive reader would do.
The most important thing though is to understand that your first draft is just the beginning of your work. It's the story you tell yourself. No matter how great you may think it is, that first draft should never, ever, EVER be given to a reader. Imho that first draft always has to be translated into a form a complete stranger to the story will be able to understand, and enjoy.
We're all impatient, but good things take time. They really do.
Fair advice,but sometimes people want everything to be too perfect when it comes to drafts. In a situation like that, you have to publish and be damned.
R.M.F wrote: "Fair advice,but sometimes people want everything to be too perfect when it comes to drafts. In a situation like that, you have to publish and be damned."Why? All readers need is one bad experience, and they'll never come back. Why should they when there are literally thousands of other books by other authors out there? I work on the basis that I'm only as good as the last thing I published. If it sucks then so does my reputation. :(
A.C. wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Fair advice,but sometimes people want everything to be too perfect when it comes to drafts. In a situation like that, you have to publish and be damned."Why? All readers need is one..."
That's true, but their are people out there who will give you a bad review because their experience of buying from amazon was poor, regardless of how good/bad your book is, so it's not always the author's fault.
Richard wrote: "Responding to S.M. posting on July 10... Sorry, I still keep telling myself I should stop chiming in here. :-)> shift from a publisher-driven market to a reader-driven market
This may be true to..."
I'm glad you chime in, Richard. It gets me thinking... Mainly it makes me think about the tacit assumptions we bring to the debate.
For instance, my previous comment was made in respect to the original question Quality Control for Indies... is there a way? in which Sophia goes on to explain that "quality control" refers to "poor writing." A lot of the comments in this thread point to editing or lack thereof as a key ingredient to a great novel. Yes, I should have explained this prior to making my comment that a sure fire way to having a best seller is writing a great story. So allow me to rephrase: a good story, with interesting characters and a strong plot AND a few grammatical and/or typo errors will still do better than an uninteresting story with flat characters and a weak plot without any grammatical and/or typo errors. My case in point, Amanda Hocking (interview with her: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tonya-p... ) Even though she never used an editor when she was self-pubbed, she is a great storyteller and her readers were more than happy to overlook a few errors. However, It was never my intention to imply that a great story does not need marketing... which brings me to Richard's points.
Reading through your comments, Richard, I see two very strong lines of thought: 1. Indie authors lack structural cohesion; and 2. Publishers possess structural cohesion. If this is a misperception on my part, my sincere apologies and no need to read any further.
In my opinion, there is no comparison between an independent author and a publisher. Behind every publisher stands thousands of authors; but an independent author is just that - independent. Both types of publishing have pros and cons and it's up to the author which route s/he decides to take. If you do decide to self-publish, then you wear two hats: writer and marketer. I understand that anybody can self-publish, which is what started this thread in the first place. However, it takes an entrepreneur to be successful.
I respectfully disagree with the statement, The current Indy phenomenon is actually more like an orphan ant colony that's been flushed into the open without leadership, and nobody has re-focused on a new queen. This type of herd-mentality dismisses the important concept of "independent." As an entrepreneur, you shouldn't be looking for leadership because you are in fact the CEO of your own company. You should be leading.
I wholeheartedly agree that readers need to know something exists before they can try to read it. That's where marketing comes into a play. As an entrepreneur, you need to invest in yourself and your product. The same forms of advertising publishers use are available to the indie author as well (with the exception of massive paperback distribution... but perhaps this will change in the future). If you lack funds, start off small and continually reinvest in yourself as you make money. Or if you're in a hurry, find a sponsor or see if you qualify for a small business loan. There are ways to obtain money and plenty of marketing models out there to follow. It really depends on your definition of success and how much you're willing to invest in yourself.
Having said this, I'm not implying that an independent author has the same advantages as a publisher with respect to marketing. I'm saying that if you have chosen to be independent, then invest in yourself. You're not just an author; you're the head of your own company. There are a lot of resources available online, and I'll point to this group as one of them. The moderators here on Modern Goodreads are providing us with some outstanding opportunities to learn the publishing industry - and it's all free! I'm glad I joined this group as the info I've found here is extremely valuable and the discussions are provocative (just wish I had more time to participate, but life prevents that at the moment).
No, readers can't "lead" an industry, but collectively they determine which books will be best sellers. All the advertising in the world can't change a bad story; it has to be a good story that catches the attention of readers within that genre in the first place. That's why publishers place a lot of value on beta readers. That's why indie authors place a lot of value on beta readers. What readers think and what they have to say about a book is important. Word of mouth is a well known and powerful form of advertising and reviews play an important role in that process.
Personally, I see the current publishing revolution as an exciting opportunity for authors (and yes, I maintain the use of revolution. Evolution is a change that occurs over generations. The changes in the publishing industry are happening at an almost daily rate). How authors choose to take advantage of those opportunities is entirely up to her/him. And for anyone who thinks a self-pubbed author can't achieve success, I'll leave you with this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04...
@ Richard and SM. You've both raised thought provoking points, but on the question of 'revolution' I tend to side with SM. Traditional publishing was a top down approach. What we have at the moment is a bottom up approach, and that is revolutionary. In computer terms it's like the difference between a massive mainframe, and distributed processing where millions of pc work together to achieve the same, or greater processing power. The SETI project runs this way. And so do the devastating DoS attacks that can bring down a website through sheer force of numbers. Will indies prevail over time? Who knows. But for now it is a brand new ball game out there.
Richard wrote: "being confronted with a hundred thousand independent writers yelling "choose my great book!" is not a tenable long-term solution for readers wanting to find books to read. ..."I'm not sure that's tenable even now. Browsing on Amazon really isn't an option. In a bookstore I could read the blurb on all the sci-fi books because there were so few in that category. On Amazon there are tens of thousands. However if we had those funnel points you mentioned, we'd be back to a situation where a few, influential people control the reading habits of everyone.
At 60 I'm not an enthusiastic young writer, but I think I prefer the chaos soup we have at the moment to funnel vision.
Sometimes the social media buzz does get it right. I found sci-fi author Hugh Howey thanks to the buzz, and he /is/ brilliant.
There is hope Richard!
S.M. wrote:..."S.M., what you wrote is an indie publishing manifesto! Bravo!
This is a thread I too have followed closely. It's awesome seeing so much input on a subject I find myself wavering on. For myself, I weigh the risks of both, but what it comes down to is time. Traditional publishing can be a huge time sink, while e-print is very accessible. There are still no guarantees for success but I could put my work out on Amazon tomorrow, or wait half a year to hear a yes or a no from a publishing house.
Leiah wrote: "I have had my blog up for less than a month as a proofreader, editor and reviewer, but this question is exactly why I started So, I Read This Book Today. I am a compulsive proofreader. I cannot ..."
You'd make a good friend out of me, haha. I'm always grateful for when people point out typographical and grammatical errors to me. Once they're fixed, they no longer exist for the next person. My ePublisher and I try so hard to find them all but ugh, fresh eyes are the best.
Kristin wrote: "...or wait half a year to hear a yes or a no from a publishing house..."Sadly, even if you are lucky enough to get a 'yes', the big publishers will do next to nothing to promote/market your book. The dollars required for big advertising campaigns are reserved for sure-fire hits that will become bestsellers and make said publishers an awful lot of money.
Truthfully... debut authors are never going to get that kind of star treatment. So most traditionally published authors get the validation of an imprint, but precious little help, and a pittance from royalties.
As Indies, we get no validation, and most of us get precious little in the way of money, but when our books do sell, we get to keep most of what we earn. And we have the freedom to write what we want to write. That tends to make Indies more innovative, more prepared to try something new.
To me, that freedom is the one great, intangible benefit of being an Indie. :)
A.C. wrote: "Kristin wrote: "...or wait half a year to hear a yes or a no from a publishing house..."Sadly, even if you are lucky enough to get a 'yes', the big publishers will do next to nothing to promote/m..."
Exactly. There is no way my novellas would ever get published, even if the publishers wept at their genius and quality, so I go indy.
R.M.F wrote: "A.C. wrote: "Kristin wrote: "...or wait half a year to hear a yes or a no from a publishing house..."Sadly, even if you are lucky enough to get a 'yes', the big publishers will do next to nothing..."
You me both RMF. :)
Did you know that the NYT best-sellers list is actually a prediction for the most part? Yes, they do their best to keep it accurate when unforeseen authors muscles their way onto it, but overall they try to feed their expectations and create a best-seller out of an author they're assuming will be one. Isn't that just one of the greatest things you've ever heard? *Sarcasm*
S.M. wrote: "Did you know that the NYT best-sellers list is actually a prediction for the most part? Yes, they do their best to keep it accurate when unforeseen authors muscles their way onto it, but overall th..."I didn't know that, but now that I do, it explains a lot of things about that list that never made sense before.
A.C. commented that when Indies write they at least get to write what they want. Sadly, that doesn't help with the marketing that they must do for themselves and can make it hugely more difficult because publishers like Amazon and Smashwords where you can publish yourself require you to 'choose genres'. Unless what you wrote fits into one of their preconceived genres, you'll still have a very, very hard time telling people what your great novel is about because all they'll have to go on is the blurb you create that most readers only look at that after they've chosen a genre for browsing.
A.C. wrote: "As Indies, we get no validation, and most of us get precious little in the way of money, but when our books do sell, we get to keep most of what we earn. And we have the freedom to write what we want to write. That tends to make Indies more innovative, more prepared to try something new. To me, that freedom is the one great, intangible benefit of being an Indie. :) "
Agree wholeheartedly. This is why I self-publish. I'm not in it for the money. I enjoy writing. I want to write what I want to write and I don't want or need someone telling me what does and doesn't sell. I'm not in a popularity contest. I get that my books aren't for everyone and I don't want them to be. I want to take chances. I want to push boundaries and buttons.I want to give my imagination enough freedom so that if it thinks the story calls for a relationship between a blue alien and a red chair then okay, let's go with it and see what happens - I don't need someone telling me "that is ridiculous and will never sell." I get that all on my own, thanks, but that isn't going to stop me from writing it just to see what happens or where it leads.
A.C. - I quoted you on my FB author page - https://www.facebook.com/cekilgore
Florence wrote: "A.C. commented that when Indies write they at least get to write what they want. Sadly, that doesn't help with the marketing that they must do for themselves and can make it hugely more difficult b..."To be fair to amazon, they do offer at least two dozen categories, so most books should fit in, but I see what you mean about niche fiction that may defy categorisation.
I was lucky - working with a great editor - but there is a "Blair Witch Project" factor here. Cinematographers and producers panned Blair - which had something like an 11,000 to 1 return on investment. Then movie critics opened their minds to it - and Blair was labeled (see Wikipedia) as "a cinematic milestone." I don't guarantee that my numbers are correct - but the return on Blair was 3 times greater than "The Notebook," and one-third of "Avatar." If you account for production cost, Blair made over 50% of Avatar's take.In terms of bad grammar and spelling, any upload system could be set to reject those in seconds. But what if an author wanted to upload something full of bad spelling, bad grammar, and that defied all the recipes for good storytelling?
See Raif Hollister Sings - Season 3, Episode 20 of Andy Griffith.
C.E. Kilgore wrote: "A.C. wrote: "As Indies, we get no validation, and most of us get precious little in the way of money, but when our books do sell, we get to keep most of what we earn. And we have the freedom to wri..."Thanks C.E. Pushing the boundaries is what it's all about. I'm really proud of the fact that some of the most creative, interesting writing is coming from Indies these days. :)
R.M.F wrote: "Florence wrote: "A.C. commented that when Indies write they at least get to write what they want. Sadly, that doesn't help with the marketing that they must do for themselves and can make it hugely..."Indies tend to blur the lines between genres and even sub-genres because we don't 'see' them. If a story crosses a few different territories on its way to The End, we just follow right along. But then what do you call the finished product? Which territory do you pick as its category?
W.D. wrote: "But what if an author wanted to upload something full of bad spelling, bad grammar, and that defied all the recipes for good storytelling?.."Interesting point. Amazon already picks up 'possible spelling' errors during the upload process. I know because it picked up about 50 words and names from the alien language I developed for my book. :D Thankfully they allowed me to decide whether those were really spelling errors or not.
Automated editing will never work because of the style factor, and there are far too many books for even an army of human editors to check.
Sadly, all that's left is the reader review process. If readers publicly protested about poor quality writing we might get somewhere, but that's not likely to happen. :(
A.C. wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Florence wrote: "A.C. commented that when Indies write they at least get to write what they want. Sadly, that doesn't help with the marketing that they must do for themselves and can ..."I agree, A.C. As indies, it's up to us how far we want to push the boundaries. And readers will give us feedback. I think the answer to your question can be found in that feedback. As indies we have the power to sign into Amazon, Smashwords, B&N, or anywhere else our book is published and change the genre. If your book isn't doing well on the market, reassign it to different genres and see if that makes a difference. If you find a common thread among reviews, respond to it. For instance, I classed my novel as YA. However, after a few reviewers said the book is better suited to "older" young adults, I changed the classification to Upper YA, 16+. Also, when I blog and send it out to twitter, I am able to see on my blog which hashtag brought in the most amount of traffic, be it science fiction, dystopian, romance or adventure. Experiment and take note of what works and what doesn't.
S.M. wrote: "A.C. wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Florence wrote: "A.C. commented that when Indies write they at least get to write what they want. Sadly, that doesn't help with the marketing that they must do for themse..."Twitter shows you which hashtags are the most popular?
S.M. wrote: Twitter shows you which hashtags are the most popular? Not twitter, Wordpress. Whenever I post a blog on Wordpress, I assign hashtags to it and "publish" it, which sends a link to the post out on twitter among other social media outlets. When people follow the link, Wordpress gives me a stat as to which hashtag drew the traffic.
I think more and more social media outlets are using hashtags, probably because it is such a successful method on twitter. I have to wonder if this system will one day be the common thread that unifies social outlets on the internet.
I guess I gotta start using hashtags on my own Wordpress blog. Where can I go to get tutored in the use of these things?
Oh, I see the tags. Aren't hashtags totally different?
A question to all... I have my twitter account connected to my Facebook page but I didn't even know I could post to my Wordpress blog and have it show up on Twitter. I'm backwards!!! Any advice would be appreciated as I'm kind of tired of copying and pasting from one social media site to another!And, yes I know that there are many genres in Amazon and other publishers but it's amazing how difficult it is to fit a particular story into one category. And yes, I know that I can change genres according to how readers categorize it but that only happens when enough people have read the story and commented on it. I'm having problems even getting that much feedback.
Okay, I'm grousing a bit and I apologize for that. But I'm amazed how difficult marketing is. I wrote for 30 years and just sent in my short stories and eventually collected a check. Now I have to do it all myself and it's hard! But I'm learning. Now thanks to the wonderful, knowledgeable people of Goodreads I hope to learn how to connect all those social media places together. I like twitter and would love to have every other place carry what I say there. So if anyone has hands-on advice, my email is fwitkop@gmail.com
S.M. wrote: "Oh, I see the tags. Aren't hashtags totally different?"Yes, I stand corrected - on wordpress they're called "tags." I'm on a learning curve myself, trying to figure out how to use these. LOL! There are lots of different tutorials on the internet. Just google tags or hashtags in association with whatever platform you're using them, and you'll find tons of info.
I think we need to start a new thread on How to Use Social Media!
S.M. wrote: "I think we need to start a new thread on How to Use Social Media!"by all means, go ahead!
I second the suggestion that we start a new thread on how to use social media!
S.M. wrote: "S.M. wrote: Twitter shows you which hashtags are the most popular? Not twitter, Wordpress. Whenever I post a blog on Wordpress, I assign hashtags to it and "publish" it, which sends a link to th..."
I have the same setup with my blog but I've never thought to use hashtags. Thanks for the tip!
S.M. wrote: "I think we need to start a new thread on How to Use Social Media!"Apart from my blog, I'm useless at FB and Twitter so I'd love a thread like that.
A.C. wrote: "S.M. wrote: "I think we need to start a new thread on How to Use Social Media!"Apart from my blog, I'm useless at FB and Twitter so I'd love a thread like that."
Done. Check it out under "General Discussions". Hopefully it attracts some experts :)
S.M. wrote: "A.C. wrote: "S.M. wrote: "I think we need to start a new thread on How to Use Social Media!"Apart from my blog, I'm useless at FB and Twitter so I'd love a thread like that."
Done. Check it ou..."
why thank you!
Thank you, I'll check it out immediately!
All in all though, it's hard work. It's not enough for an author to be an author. He or she must be a PR person, artist (for designing a book cover) lawyer and marketing expert. And proof reader as well. I don't know why I bother sometimes! :)
