A Song of Ice & Fire Fans discussion
An Heir for Robb?
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Edward wrote: "Seriously, did people not realize Tywin Lannister had set Rob up with an infertile wife. They were after all Lannister Bannermen."She is not infertile.
Maybe on TV, but I don't think so. I just read where GRRM said that the whole opposing descriptions of Jeyne's hips was a mistake. So, no Jeyne switch and she was distraught that her mother had been feeding her moon tea disguised as a fertility tonic.
I didn't really think much of this "mistake" or whatever it may be concerning Jeyne, but the more I look into it, the more I'm confused by it In several forums that I've looked up, they bring up evidence, albeit slight evidence, that suggests that she may have gotten away. From the website A Forum of Ice and Fire, one poster has this to say, and it pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter: "I think the theory is that Jeyne is switched with her younger sister Elenya, who is conspicously absent from Riverrun when Jaime is there. So Elenya was, in fact, not absent, but was pretending to be Jeyne. That makes more sense than Jeyne's appearance dramatically changing; Catelyn saw the 15 year old Jeyne, Jaime saw the 12 year old Eleyna.
Jaime wouldn't have seen a pregnant Jeyne since he didn't see Jeyne.
Jeyne's sister is probably also upset and capable of selling grief.
While it's conceivable that Sybell would assist the Lannisters initially, it is not inconceivable that once she discovered her daughter was pregnant she would conceal it, because the most likely thing the Lannisters would do is kill Jeyne.
Basically, it's too soon to tell. It could be true that Robb has an heir, similarly it could also be true these things are red herrings."
I also have not found that GRRM actually admits to this being a mistake. On the contrary, I have done some searching and can find no where where he even has commented on it. I found an article from the Tower of the Hand website, and I took a chunk out of it that talked about the possibility of this being a mistake:
"..despite the brilliance of his prose, Mr. Martin is only human, and it is most certainly in him to make a mistake. However, I do not think this theory originated in writer error. If there is one thing we know about Mr. Martin, it's that he pays attention to detail. Find me another instance, anywhere in the series, in which the physical description of a character, from someone else's point of view, does not match a description of the same character, from a second point of view. That is the kind of thing that Mr. Martin tends not to screw up, and in this instance, it seems even less likely. It must be agreed that Catelyn's observations about Jeyne's hips are relevant in some way, even if only as further evidence of Lady Stark's character. With that in mind, when returning to the description of Jeyne from Jaime's POV, would Mr. Martin have been so thoughtless as to completely reverse the major physical characteristic that we, as readers, have associated with her? I think not.
And even if he did, he has editors, doesn't he? He goes over the book again, at least once, before he publishes, I imagine? Being a writer of sorts myself, I guarantee you that nothing is sent in for publication without the author having gone over it several times, tinkering and revising, and attempting to weed out contradictions. For crying out loud, how long have we been waiting for A Dance With Dragons because of Mr. Martin's perfectionist tendencies? I find it very hard to believe that he simply "missed" this severe alteration of Jeyne's physical description.
And even if he did, he must be aware of the mistake by now. I know he makes a point of staying out of the discussion forums, but surely someone must have pointed it out, if we on the Internet have already made such a fuss. Even if it was a mistake, the fact remains that it was published, and being published, it became part of the story. Even if Mr. Martin did not intend to add to the story of Jeyne Westerling, he must recognize that the discrepancy that led to this theory has to be dealt with, and part of that is recognizing that there must have been a reason for the discrepancy in the first place. Stories tend to grow of their own accord, and a skillful and accomplished writer like Mr. Martin should be able to weave this "mistake," if by some remote chance that's what it was, into the remaining work."
No more heir for Robb coming from his own seed. GRRM had clearly projected the idea from this week's episode.Talisa is dead so as Jeyne Westerling is not pregnant.
Aly wrote: "I didn't really think much of this "mistake" or whatever it may be concerning Jeyne, but the more I look into it, the more I'm confused by it In several forums that I've looked up, they bring up e..."Go to Westeros.org and you will find it exactly where I found it.
Bottom line, there was no switch and Jeyne is not pregnant and Robb probably named Jon as his heir because he thought Bran and Rickon to be dead and Sansa is a Lannister.
I never thought about an un-wolfRob, but now that I think about it, that would be awesome :))
@Aly,Here is GRRM's response at a book signing to the question re Jeyne's description:
When we approached the stage for signings we had the chance to ask a quick question, and he told me that that the hips were a mistake unfortunately.
Source: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/E...
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That said, I admit that I do not like GRRM's answer in this case because I love theories.
Therefore, with that in mind, here are some of my theories re the aforementioned exchange:
1. The fan in question made that up.
Significance: the theories might still be true.
2. George misheard the question. Perhaps he heard something along the lines of "Was *illegible*'s description later in the book a mistake?, to which he may have replied "Yes, I've made some minor mistakes in descriptions, unfortunately"
Significance: the theories might still be true.
3. GRRM answered that way intentionally to throw everyone off.
Significance: the theories might still be true.
4. Jeyne is Jaqn H'gar
Significance: the theories might still be true.
Conclusion:
We may continue to theorize.
Jon, thanks for the link. I did do some research but couldn't find it anywhere so the link is appreciated. I also enjoy your theories! I don't know if I want Jeyne to be pregnant or not. I like Jon being Robb's heir, but with him possibly dead, it's kind of up in the air again. Grrrr, Martin, just come out with the book already!! LOL like that'll happen soon.
Hey Aly, my tongue was rubbing against my cheek while I wrote that... But I'm glad you enjoyed them. I just like making up theories :)
The Jeyne is Jaqn H'gar one is my favorite. Just because.
Ok so i'm not up to date on the show, but i've read all the books. Does Robb name Jon heir in show, like in the books?
Kenneth wrote: "Ok so i'm not up to date on the show, but i've read all the books. Does Robb name Jon heir in show, like in the books?"
They didn't broach the subject.
perhaps rickon will be brought to winterfell when war ends
Mitali wrote: "Kenneth wrote: "He can't reject Robb's it's not an offer he is legitimized, he could forego becoming king of the north but he is a Stark regardless "Robb's legitimization of Jon is valid only as ..."
For a while I was certain that since Robb legitimised him before his death, Jon Snow was his true heir and I was just waiting for the will to come to light. And at one point I was so excited when it looked like the oft-insulted bastard might actually have 3 titles to choose from: Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, Lord of Winterfell and King in the North. But yeah, I agree that the position of King in the North no longer exists. Shame, I would have loved to see Jon as a king! Who knows, somehow we still might...
Kenneth wrote: "Robb declared that Jon Snow was to be named heir and released from his vows to the night watch in the case of his death. Which as King of the North is within his rights. Actually that is the only w..."
I hope Jon does become heir of winterfell, from what i've read he's capable to command and has a good, loyal heart. I suppose he's very like Lord Eddard in that matter...
I hope Jon does become heir of winterfell, from what i've read he's capable to command and has a good, loyal heart. I suppose he's very like Lord Eddard in that matter...
a)Talisa dies at the RW
b)After the RW they take her and make her abort the baby (or maybe the stress created by the RW ends in a miscarriage)
c)She lied. And they might be various reasons for this: She just wants to make Robb happy now, hoping that she will get pregnant soon, she THINKS she's pregnant but she's not, or she's actually a lannister ally and she lies for dark reasons (ok, I'm not very convinced about this one but it's still an option)