A Song of Ice & Fire Fans discussion
An Heir for Robb?
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Janelle
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May 06, 2013 09:32AM
I think that Robb's wife was pregnant and he will have an Heir.
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Well, it wouldn't be for lack of trying. LOL!I'm pretty sure that is all Jeyne Westerling ever wanted.
I think Robb having an heir would complicate the things even more. In any case, her mother was making her drink Moon tea or something, so she can't be pregnant.
Yes "Jeyne went into mourning, to the chagrin of her mother, who had been in secret negotiations with Lord Tywin Lannister. Unknown to Jeyne, her mother had given her potions against pregnancy under the pretense of a fertility potion. "
But there are interesting Jeyne Westerling theories being discussed in ASOIAF forums.
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/...
Nermin wrote: "Yes "Jeyne went into mourning, to the chagrin of her mother, who had been in secret negotiations with Lord Tywin Lannister. Unknown to Jeyne, her mother had given her potions against pregnancy un..."
where in the heck is this in the books??? I do not recall this at all. I just recall the fact that although they were trying Jeyne was just not becoming pregnant.
I think it was in the fourth book, I'm not sure, but I remember reading it, Jeyne's mother deceived her and made her drink moon tea or something instead of fertility potion.
Yep, just looked over on the wiki as you suggested.It's in the fourth book.
Also, Jeyne Westerling's grandmother is possibly Maggy the Frog?
Didn't realize that, interesting.
The theories section was interesting as well. Though I don't know about all this Blackfish hooking up with Jeyne to produce a fake heir b.s.
I always kinda thought Blackfish might be another character who is gay.
I remember being super disappointed when I read that she had been drinking moon tea in the book - I was hoping for some sort of heir too. But, is that stuff 100% effective? Even modern medicine is not 100%...
I think it's pretty close to 100% (though I doubt anything is 100% effective)Since not only does it cause women not to become pregnant, it completely aborts pregnancy. Kinda reminds me of the morning after pill...
hahaha, Ladies, don't want to be pregnant, take this *magic potion* and have all the sex you want but without the risk. Littlefinger should give out in spades to the women in his establishment.
No Kidding! Maybe Robert Baratheon should have kept a flask on his hip for goodness sake.have all the sex you want but without the risk
Except the risk of STD's!
Oh wait, aren't they called STI's now? I think I learned that last time I was at the doctor without my regular reading material....
I don't 100% buy that Jeyne's mom was giving her moon tea or whatevs. Because of the Magy the frog connection.
I remember thinking at the time that the Moon tea Jayne drank was written in so the heir of Winter would be a Stark brother not Robb's son. I also think the POV less Robb was never a contender for King in GRRM'S mind I really think he didn't really like him? Just my opinion
I thought the Starks were supposed to be the heroes of this series but all Martin has done is ride them up the ass.
Yes HOW DARE HE mess about with his own characters and upset us all! Ha ha!
I like to mess with my characters too but heroes always come out on top.
Maggie wrote: "I don't 100% buy that Jeyne's mom was giving her moon tea or whatevs. Because of the Magy the frog connection."Um, I'm not sure I see the connection between two cases, why should being related to Magy stop Sybell from giving her daughter the moon tea?
GRRM can detour the story perhaps. Jeyne actually knows that it's moon tea. She just makes it look like she had been drinking it when in truth she's not. She might be secretly pregnant with Robb's heir. It is very inevitable that her being with child will discovered. Soon she'll become a runaway to protect her unborn child, lost in the wilderness of the north where the outlaws (Brotherhood with Banners) can find her. As for we all know Lady Catelyn aka Stoneheart replaced Beric Dondarrion's leadership, she can restore Jeyne and her grandchild to safety. Blame my imagination but I am a Stark fan, I want their race to thrive.
Yeah, that is possible But I find myself wishing that it won't turn out to be true. What I mean is, there are a lot of characters, storylines going on already, do we really need another mystery? I sometimes get very confused and don't see where GRRM is going with all this. I think Robb's child would further complicate the things.
no no, Jon Snow will win. The end. Oh and Wolves and so forth .......
If Jon Snow would turn out to be a Targaryen, a son of Lady Lyanna and Prince Rhaegar, I would be very much contented. Then there will be no need for an heir from Robb. Haha! Just so hear me GRRM let the Starks thrive!
The Starks really don't have to thrive through Jon or Robb. There is still Rickon.Not to mention Sansa and Arya. I wouldn't doubt if Sansa takes Winterfell for her own. I think out of all the children she has the most interest at this point.
Also wouldn't be surprised if she hooks up with Littlefinger.
I'm not saying it's not possible that Jeyne was impregnated and carrying Robb's heir, but all the evidence really points in the other direction. Most the speculation is reaching at best and completely hinges on the fact the Jaime Lannister and Cat Stark described her appearance slightly differently. Which honestly, of course they see her differently in my opinion, Jaime is used to comparing every woman to Cersei, and honestly, no woman compares in beauty especially not in Jaime's mind.
I absolutely agree with everything you said, Amber!
No no nonononono Sansa nonononono Littletwistedfinger! Now I can't get that picture out of my head......I need bleach!
Hehehehe, I don't like the thought of Sansa + Littlefinger either. I agree with Emma. I want the Starks to thrive. It could happen with Sansa or Arya. It could also happen with Rickon or Bran.
They are so gonna do it.LOL!
Na, I dunno for sure, but certainly get this feeling in my gut during all Alayne's chapters.
My major question is how Petyr intends to present her as Sansa again when she is already married!
I've never been very clear on whether there marriage has to be consumated before it was considered legit or not.
Eh, it's hard to say if Bran could proliferate the line.Kinda depends on how bad his paralysis is and how good of a maester he has.
I think Bran can father a child when he gets older. He just needs to build up his upper body strength.
Emma wrote: "GRRM can detour the story perhaps. Jeyne actually knows that it's moon tea. She just makes it look like she had been drinking it when in truth she's not. She might be secretly pregnant with Robb's ..."i admire your optimistic imagination towards the stark future and im also a stark fan but i think the stark line isnt going to take a turn for the best. martin is ruthless with killing off important characters at a moments notice. i made the mistake of becoming too attached to the starks and tthen when i read the "red wedding" scene it completly changed my view on how this author can twist and turn a story to the point that its almost impossible to form a good hypothesis of the next books. as for your theory of stoneheart and her brotherhood saving the star heir, i think thats a long stretch seeing as how stoneheart is soley focused on finding arya and sansa since she got the tip from brienne, that most likely will take her far away from jeyne. i believe the only hope of the stark line surviving is with sansa. i think arya is going to stay across the sea, bran might stay with the 3eyed crow and travel the world from there, rickon is probably dead, and stoneheart might die after a good amount of revenge actions towards the lannisters and a good search fo her daughters. to sum up, stark is done...its all about targaryen now.
Amber wrote: "I think it's pretty close to 100% (though I doubt anything is 100% effective)Since not only does it cause women not to become pregnant, it completely aborts pregnancy. Kinda reminds me of the mor..."
Ah, but the manufacture of moon tea would fall under the category of herbalism and/or alchemy, which are technically forms of magic (yep, I'm an Arduin player *wink*). And with the rebirth of the dragons, the magical forces in the world are increasing. Remember how Pyromancer Hallyne told Tyrion about how it was becoming quicker and easier to make wildfire...? So moon tea would also be a 'magical elixir' which would be increasing in potency.
Jeremy wrote: "i admire your optimistic imagination towards the stark future and im also a stark fan but i think the stark line isnt going to take a turn for the best. martin is ruthless with killing off important characters at a moments notice. i made the mistake of becoming too attached to the starks and tthen when i read the "red wedding" scene it completly changed my view on how this author can twist and turn a story to the point that its almost impossible to form a good hypothesis of the next books. as for your theory of stoneheart and her brotherhood saving the star heir, i think thats a long stretch seeing as how stoneheart is soley focused on finding arya and sansa since she got the tip from brienne, that most likely will take her far away from jeyne. i believe the only hope of the stark line surviving is with sansa. i think arya is going to stay across the sea, bran might stay with the 3eyed crow and travel the world from there, rickon is probably dead, and stoneheart might die after a good amount of revenge actions towards the lannisters and a good search fo her daughters. to sum up, stark is done...its all about targaryen now. "I vaguely recall reading something about GRRM describing his vision of the end of the story... something about a lonely graveyard full of beloved characters. So I think that's been his plan all along; to end the saga on a note of poignant melancholy. That would also sort of parallel reading true history; if you read a history book, you know all the players are dead. Everyone's story has to end somewhere, after all... I think this device would serve to forge a greater connection between the reader and the fictional characters. When reading typical fantasy there's a disconnect; you know none of the characters are real people. But by giving them all a 'real' life... including a 'real' death... these fantastical creations somehow acquire even more believability. That's the main thing that attracted me to the series in the first place: it doesn't follow the standard fairy tale storybook formula where the hero always wins.
As for the fate of the Starks in general, I think they'll all end up dead. But to speculate on what will happen before they croak, let's see... Jon, being one of the most vital central characters, is most assuredly destined for greatness... but in what form exactly is entirely up for grabs at this point. Warg, raised from the dead, etc., he could wind up in one of several different directions, but Martin isn't through with him by a long shot. It's pretty clear what lies in store for Bran; he'll replace whatsisname growing into the Weirwood roots, exploring/interacting with the rest of the world through his warging/Greenseeing abilities. We don't have much to work with for Rickon; pretty much all we know is he's wandering around with Osha (headed for Skagos I think, but he could end up anywhere in the long run). If you'll pardon the pun, Rickon is Martin's 'Wild Card'. (evil grin) Arya will end up a Faceless Man (or Faceless Woman... but who knows, if they can change faces, who says they can't change sexes as well...?) so she's pretty much fated to be a rampaging juggernaut of blood-soaked revenge. Sansa, I think, will end up back in Winterfell. There was a prophecy about her slaying a giant, and the foreshadowing scene at the Eyrie courtyard where she built the model of Winterfell in the snow, and Sweetrobin stomped his doll all over it, knocking part of it down, and Sansa broke his doll (if I remember correctly). As for Robb, I still hold steadfastly to my Un-Robb theory. I mean seriously, from an author's point of view, why on Earth do you kill off a main character and have a wolf head sewn onto his body if you're NOT going to raise this monstrosity from the dead?!?! :O Gotta happen, no way around it. ;)
I'm sorta holding out for a wolf-headed Robb myself.I think theres a good chance of his coming back once Winter is in full swing. The whole Winter is Coming thing, plus the spirit bindings they used to do in the crypts of Winterfell for Kings of the North just give me that feeling. It's a weak theory but something is up with that I just know it!! LOL.
Amber wrote: "I'm sorta holding out for a wolf-headed Robb myself.I think theres a good chance of his coming back once Winter is in full swing. The whole Winter is Coming thing, plus the spirit bindings they ..."
Uh I would just love that!
I think the Stark future isn't that dark. The name of the seventh book was originally supposed to be "A time for wolfes" before Martin changed it to "A Dream for spring" I mean thats gotta mean something, right? At least I hope so.
There are actually a lot of crackpot theories around Jeyne. My favourites being:
1) Her mother is witch and she used a love potion on Robb to get him to marry Jeyne.
2) The girl Jamie met was actually her sister (cause her hips were described as narrow) and the real and pregnant Jeyne fled with the Blackfish.
But if she weren't pregnant, Jon would be his heir, right? They never say it explicitly.
Jon Snow is not eligible as an heir because he's a member of the Night's Watch and serves as Lord Commander (though he got stabbed at the end of the 5th cliffhanger book!). Robb's legitimate siblings will always be the first in line for succession.
Robb declared that Jon Snow was to be named heir and released from his vows to the night watch in the case of his death. Which as King of the North is within his rights. Actually that is the only way someone can legally leave the wall besides death.
Emma wrote: "Jon Snow is not eligible as an heir because he's a member of the Night's Watch and serves as Lord Commander (though he got stabbed at the end of the 5th cliffhanger book!). Robb's legitimate siblin..."A king can legitimize a bastard. Robb legitimized Jon and made him his heir in his will just before the Red Wedding. Stannis too offered to legitimize Jon and offered to make his Lord of Winterfell. Jon rejected Stannis's offer, and probably would reject Robb's offer as well - assuming, of course, that he's still alive to do any rejecting!
Kenneth wrote: "Robb declared that Jon Snow was to be named heir and released from his vows to the night watch in the case of his death. Which as King of the North is within his rights. Actually that is the only w..."My gratitude for refreshing my memory. Now, I do remember that part about Robb leaving Jon as his heir if the misfortune of death caught him. But I know the rule that kings can legalize bastards as Stannis tried to rename him as a Stark.
Mitali wrote: "Emma wrote: "Jon Snow is not eligible as an heir because he's a member of the Night's Watch and serves as Lord Commander (though he got stabbed at the end of the 5th cliffhanger book!). Robb's legi..."He can't reject Robb's it's not an offer he is legitimized, he could forego becoming king of the north but he is a Stark regardless
Did Jon ever actually recieve that Letter? I don't remember.I forgot he was legitimized by Robb altogether. *sigh*
As far as i know Jon has not received the news yet, but it was witnessed by a number of people who still live
Kenneth wrote: "He can't reject Robb's it's not an offer he is legitimized, he could forego becoming king of the north but he is a Stark regardless "Robb's legitimization of Jon is valid only as long as he was recognized as a legitimate king. He's long dead, and as far as most people are concerned - his followers as well as his enemies - there is no longer a King in the North. Jon can't inherit a position that no longer exists, and he can't be legitimized by a king that the 'official' government (i.e. in King's Landing) considers was a false king. If he wanted to be King in the North, he'd have to start a new rebellion nearly from scratch. And it's unlikely that even if Jon were in a position to do so (i.e. alive), he wouldn't raise a rebellion, since he already accepted Stannis as the legitimate king.
Of course, the plot point about Robb's will will probably come up again in the next book. People who witnessed the will are still alive and loyal to the Starks - the Greatjon and Lady Mormont, I think, and maybe a few others. They may try to seek out Jon in order to crown him - which could lead to a lot of conflicting loyalties, since Lady Mormont's daughter and the Greatjon's brother have joined Stannis's army. Should be interesting to see how it plays out in WoW (hopefully!)
Talisan Maegyr is pregnant! GoT Season 3 Episode 8
Emma wrote: "Talisan Maegyr is pregnant! GoT Season 3 Episode 8"What got me about that is that MARTIN wrote this episode! So, is something coming out that we weren't sure about in the books (ie she was described differently because she had gained some early-pregnancy weight?)
Or, is something horrible going to happen to Talisan in the show...?
Hmm so maybe this his way of hinting that Robb might have an heir in the books after all. Well one can only hope.
Seriously, did people not realize Tywin Lannister had set Rob up with an infertile wife. They were after all Lannister Bannermen.
*Secret*Fatty* wrote: "Nermin wrote: "Yes "Jeyne went into mourning, to the chagrin of her mother, who had been in secret negotiations with Lord Tywin Lannister. Unknown to Jeyne, her mother had given her potions again..."
ASoS, when Jaime took Riverrun.
Jayme(the ghost reader) wrote: "hahaha, Ladies, don't want to be pregnant, take this *magic potion* and have all the sex you want but without the risk. Littlefinger should give out in spades to the women in his establishment."What makes you think that he doesn't or any other brothel owner doesn't? The only other way would be to geld all of then men.
i dont really like the idea of Robb having an heir. Honestly he was never my favorite stark. I got so used to reading the POVs of Bran, Sansa, Arya, and Jon, that Robb almost seemed like he wasnt part of the family. and as others have said adding in an heir for him would just create more confusion and one more contender for the throne. now that the series is reaching the last two books i think those fighting for the throne should be less, not more. Plus i was always a fan of the Targaryens getting the throne back since it was theirs originally. Realistically I dont see Bran having children with his condition and powers. Arya was never interested in being a real lady so i doubt she would want children(though that could change as she is very young). Jon, even if his legitimization is accepted by the government, probably wont want to leave the nights watch. if he does i see him being to changed to want to return to Winterfell and accept any of the responsibilities. Sansa is the most likely to return and carry on the Stark line, however i have this nagging feeling that she will end up ruling the Eyrie. not necessarily through a marriage with anyone. I just think she will end up taking control of it. There is the possibility of Theon regaining some of his honor and helping the Starks and then being adopted into their family and taking over winterfell, but that is a bit of a stretch.
Robb having an heir changes everything. It hurts to think about all the possibilities and all the plots that may potentially arise when they found out about it.Martin was the writer of that episode so including that is tantamount to assuming that that was what really happened in the book. And I'm getting a bad vibe out of that Talisa.
It's so much simpler when it was just the books.
(not that it's that simple,anyways)
