The Not a Book Club Club discussion
Has Goodreads made you a better reader?
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I've always been a consumer of stories, whether from books, games, TV/movies, or friends & family.
I've never spent much time thinking about the structure though. To me it's always been about whether I enjoy the story or not.
Rob wrote: "I've never spent much time thinking about the structure though. To me it's always been about whether I enjoy the story or not. "I am the same that way. However,what goodreads has done is broaden my palate. Before goodreads I would deliberately avoid women authors, probably because growing up I would like the typical action, adventure, gory, violent "man" books; and the few women authors I read didn't do it for me so I concluded only men could write "man" books and it kinda stuck with me.
Getting past my teens my taste changed to where I wanted more from my books but I had already trained myself that women authors had nothing to offer me. But through goodreads I have been introduced to some very good women authors who have been able to add a depth that is often missing in many of the "man" books.
I still tend to gravitate towards male authors, but I am now a lot more willing to try women authors with the expectation that I will get something out of their books.
No, not in that sense. I was never interested in that aspect of books. I read to be carried away into another person's life, and reading has always been about the story and its people to me. I'm interested in understanding their motivations and actions, and if I analyze anything in a book that will be it; why a character has made certain choices, what caused the story to unfold the way it does et c.I tried to delve into the structural choices when I was reviewing something recently, but it didn't work out. Although to be honest I'm a shitty reviewer, hehe.
GR has been great in the sense that it has made me read more consistently. I always read much, but not regularly for a long time. It also has been great in the more obvious way; it put me in touch with a lot of books I otherwise wouldn't have heard about or read.
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Nuh uh!
I like your reviews Kat. You tend not to spend time re-telling the story and more about your feelings which I find interesting and valuable because I like to know peoples emotional involvement in the book, not what happened in the book. I don' think Goodreads has made me a better reader, what is that anyway? A better reader. I read slower with group reads and absorb more, I have slowed my speed reading down considerably as I have been introduced to better quality more absorbing stories. For me what GR has done, has taken my solo hobby and given me friends to share my reading and thoughts. At first that was sketchy, because some of the groups were full of, well, pretentious dickheads whose English Lit degrees made them feel superior, but lately I have developed a great group of friends, not just GR friends, but people who I think of friends, (yeah, there is a few hanging out here) and that has been the best thing that GR has done for me.
Thanks Rob & Lee. :)You know, although I love being involved in reading groups and to discuss whatever books I'm reading, it also comes with a price if you (like me) can't narrow down the groups you want to be involved in. I'm being pulled in far too many directions because I want to read so many books with so many groups. I already fell behind on Malazan because I keep thinking that "I will just read this book, then catch up!", and that sucks. There is after all only so much time.
But yes, overall it's very nice to be able to discuss more actively with people. I didn't do that as much before!
I guess it really is just me then :PI agree that I've found a lot more books through goodreads which has been great. So many amazing books I didn't know about that now I do because I've found them here.
One comment on this thread in the other group I'm very active in was that it's helped Jason understand why he likes the books he likes better and write better reviews. That's what I mean by being a better reader. I mean that I get more out of books now that I've seen how many more layers there are that I hadn't noticed before. You don't have to see them to enjoy a book or know that it's brilliant, but it can help you understand why you prefer one book over another. I'm by no means saying that I can unravel any book or see everything at once, but I see more than I used to and I attribute that to this website and the reviews I've read here.
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Fair enough :) I like being able to explain myself to myself. Also if someone is silly enough to say something like "How could you not love *insert book title here*?" or "But why do you like *insert book title here*?, I thought it was crap" I can give them a calm well thought out answer. I've found few things annoy them more or give me more pleasure :) I'm not a very nice person.
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I'm not one to debate my opinions much. A lot of it is subjective anyways. Some people seem to enjoy arguing and/or stirring up controversy.
I just tend to avoid those people/threads. I'd rather spend the time reading another book.
Thanks Rob :) I'm only mean to people who deserve it! I'm only kidding. When I was studying in the US a friend there told me that I was "addicted to harmony" so I can't be that confrontational :PI also avoid arguing with people on the internet partly because you'll never win and they'll probably never even hear anything you say so there's really no point. Also I find that sometimes I'm just a useless chick and I take things personally and can get very upset by people who really aren't worth getting upset over.
So yes, I like informed discussion, I don't like pointless argument. They're usually fairly easy to tell apart I find.
Hm, I enjoy discussing opinions with people sometimes. If I feel strongly about something, ha. I think it's interesting to hear what other people think in response when I present my views. In books where the nature of a character is debatable because he/she is in the grey area it also sometimes unexpectedly reveals something new about a character and leads to my changing my opinion. Usually from worse to better. Cersei from A Game of Thrones is a good example; I used to hate her guts, but I don't any longer because someone who understood her better explained her motivations to me. Likewise, my defending Jaime from the same set of novels, has led to other people viewing him differently. Nice stuff!I don't usually push it unless I think I'm right though. And if I think someone makes a good case proving me wrong I will fold. I can certainly defend a character fiercely if I think it is misunderstood or getting an undeserved amount of crap, but I would never stoop so low as to call someone an idiot or such for having a different opinion.
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Still can't stand her. She's a very well written unlikable character that way.
There aren't enough people who are willing to have their mind changed by a persuasive argument, but those are the ones that are worth engaging with. It's funny that you say you usually see characters you used to dislike in a better light, because for me it's usually the opposite! Concepts I thought were really interesting as a basic construct for a different (and almost always dystopian) world are torn apart in a sentence by friends in a review and I find that I can't argue with their point. And I think if only I hadn't read that review I'd still like that book!
I have yet to read The Song of Fire and Ice series so I can't comment. I know, I know, I'll get to it! Too many books!
Rob wrote: "I understand Cersei's motivations just fineStill can't stand her. She's a very well written unlikable character that way."
I still dislike her heartily, but I don't hate her blindly, as before. Her chapters are among my favourites though, she's incredibly entertaining!
Penny wrote: There aren't enough people who are willing to have their mind changed by a persuasive argument, but those are the ones that are worth engaging with.
Agreed!
It's funny that you say you usually see characters you used to dislike in a better light, because for me it's usually the opposite! Concepts I thought were really interesting as a basic construct for a different (and almost always dystopian) world are torn apart in a sentence by friends in a review and I find that I can't argue with their point. And I think if only I hadn't read that review I'd still like that book!
Hehe, really? Hm... well, of course... sometimes they change for the worse, but usually for the better. I have a friend like that too though; I just stop discussing with him when that happens, because I don't want to be 'enlightened' by his damned genius. Sometimes you just wanna live happily ever after in a bubble, hehe.
I have yet to read The Song of Fire and Ice series so I can't comment. I know, I know, I'll get to it! Too many books!
Oh, you really should read them, they are among the best I ever read, simply because the characters are incredibly well-written and because it is hard to label anyone as genuinely good or evil, even if most lean more heavily towards one of the two. For me, as I thrive when I pick brains apart, they are an absolute dream.
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that point. lol. I liked it better before she was a POV character, but then you do lose out on seeing how her twisted thinking works without it.
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As far as SoIaF, I really liked the first 3 books a lot. I felt Book 4 really dragged, likely do to my incredible dislike of Cersei. I enjoyed book 5 much better, but not as much the first 3.
Kat wrote: "Rob wrote: " the characters are incredibly well-written and because it is hard to label anyone as genuinely good or evil"
I whole-heartily agree with Kat on this point.
Considering the series isn't done, and who knows if he ever will, I don't really see a need for you to rush to start reading it, other than fear of being mocked by elitist nerds on the internet! ^_^
i'm a bit late to the party.has goodreads made me a better reader? i'm not sure.
the biggest impact for sure has been getting straight to good books, instead of dwelling into bookstores unknowingly and being dissapointed by the "bestsellers" every other week.
there has been some impact because i force myself to write a review everytime, so i think a bit more about why i like or dislike a book. is it the writing itself? or the world-building? or the characters that i couldn't connect or believe in?
i don't think it's changing my opinion of books, nor my reading experience, but it makes me more aware of what i think. (if that makes any sense :))
i also like reading other people's point of view. it might not often change my own, but it's really cool to read other people's interpretation of events and characters. the most recent example is probably Prince Verity in the Farseer trilogy (Robin Hobb) - Rob can testify the many discussions about him :)))
Rob wrote: "We'll have to agree to disagree on that point. lol. I liked it better before she was a POV character, but then you do lose out on seeing how her twisted thinking works without it."(view spoiler)
"As far as SoIaF, I really liked the first 3 books a lot. I felt Book 4 really dragged, likely do to my incredible dislike of Cersei. I enjoyed book 5 much better, but not as much the first 3."
For me, it's completely opposite! I much preferred AFFC to ADWD. A common claim among people is that it depends on who your favourite characters are, and that is definitely true in my case. :)
Hanne wrote: "the biggest impact for sure has been getting straight to good books, instead of dwelling into bookstores unknowingly and being dissapointed by the "bestsellers" every other week."
"there has been some impact because i force myself to write a review everytime"
Me too! I don't write one every time, though. Only when I feel like I can. I couldn't write proper reviews about Rothfuss' books, or The Old Man and the Sea, as I was at an absolute loss for words after reading them.
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I can testify that you're still WRONG! ^_^
about SoIaF: same here as Kat here. the last book was the worst of the five so far. still really good, but not up to the standard he created with the first three books.Kat wrote: "Me too! I don't write one every time, though. Only when I feel like I can. I couldn't write proper reviews about Rothfuss' books, or The Old Man and the Sea, as I was at an absolute loss for words after reading them. "
Then that would be my review: that i'm at a loss for words. I don't try to think about reviews too much, just whatever comes into my head after i finish. that makes them often rubbish as they are my ramblings, but i can live with that.
Rob wrote: "I can testify that you're still WRONG! ^_^"Hey! We agreed to disagree!! :))))))
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I can see that. I'm a Jon, Arya, Tyrion guy. Arya gets far too few chapters imho. (view spoiler)
I certainly liked some characters (view spoiler) a lot more by the end of AFFC.
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See I thought we just agreed we were both too stubborn and there was no point debating it anymore. Maybe that's just the same thing. lol.
Hanne wrote: "Then that would be my review: that i'm at a loss for words. I don't try to think about reviews too much, just whatever comes into my head after i finish. that makes them often rubbish as they are my ramblings, but i can live with that. "Yes, I usually summarize those reviews in a single word or sentence, hehe. They still count as reviews, but they're not 'proper' reviews, if you will.
I like your reviews!
Robb wrote: "I can see that. I'm a Jon, Arya, Tyrion guy. Arya gets far too few chapters imho. (view spoiler)
I certainly liked some characters (view spoiler) a lot more by the end of AFFC."
I used to be a Jon and Tyrion-person. (view spoiler)
I wouldn't say I'm a better reader but I certainly read more and discovered more books from Goodreads. Being able to connect with other readers has broadened my horizons.Throwing in my 2 cents on Cersei: I don't hate her, don't like her but I understand her. She's very much a product of her environment and has no qualms doing deplorable things to get her way. I find her quite interesting but at the same time I was very happy (view spoiler).
I'm a Tyrion, Arya, and Jon fan up to the 5th book. Tyrion and Jon's storylines fall off for me (view spoiler). Jaime is one of my favorites now and Brienne.
i'm team Arya all the way!and Brienne - just love her!
Brienne is so great. She does what she's good at despite (or maybe because of) being made fun of for it. And she has honor which many knights in Westeros do not (see: most of the Kingsguard).
Hanne wrote: "the biggest impact for sure has been getting straight to good books, instead of dwelling into bookstores unknowingly and being dissapointed by the "bestsellers" every other week." Agreed! I used to reread the same books and rewatch the same films because I was sick of always being disappointed. I was also much younger and less patient than I am now :) But GR has been awesome from this point of view!
For example, I now know what to expect from the SoIaF series, and you all have confirmed it. The first three books are awesome, book 4 not so much, and book 5 is ok. I've known a few people to stop reading the series at book 4 because they disliked it so strongly. I really appreciate you guys using the spoiler tags because I do plan on reading it :) It's been too highly recommended not to.
Dara wrote: "I was very happy (view spoiler)."ME TOO! One of the best moments in the series.
Brienne is so great. She does what she's good at despite (or maybe because of) being made fun of for it. And she has honor which many knights in Westeros do not (see: most of the Kingsguard).
Yes! (view spoiler)
Penny wrote: "For example, I now know what to expect from the SoIaF series, and you all have confirmed it. The first three books are awesome, book 4 not so much, and book 5 is ok. I've known a few people to stop reading the series at book 4 because they disliked it so strongly. I really appreciate you guys using the spoiler tags because I do plan on reading it :) It's been too highly recommended not to."
Well... opinions vary, but I think it is regarded as the weakest in the series, yes. Myself I loved it. It's different from the previous ones, though. :)
Anyway, look forward to hearing what you think of them when you get there!
Penny, drop everything you're doing and read ASOIAF ASAP!
Jon wrote: "Penny, drop everything you're doing and read ASOIAF ASAP!"Hehe, so you're against my plan to wait until he's finished the series then? It's on my to-read-soon list and I will get to it soon. Not having read it yet does make it hard to have a conversation about fantasy books a lot of the time.
Fine, I concede, I'll read it next! I've decided to try to have read 50 books on the SciFi and Fantasy Book Club bookshelf by the end of the year and it's on there so I was going to read it soon anyway :P
Penny wrote: "Hehe, so you're against my plan to wait until he's finished the series then? "Very much so, although not because of the meritorious reason Rob provided :p
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That is, until you finish A Dance With Dragons and then you're stuck wondering if he'll ever finish the series before dying of heart attack or some other issue related to old age and/or poor health choices.
You know, like the rest of us...
If he dies, I'll make up my own ending and have to be satisfied by it.Or maybe Joe Abercrombie or someone of that like can finish it like Brandon Sanderson did for Robert Jordan.
I somehow doubt GRRM has notes on the final books though.
Hanne wrote: "but that's ok, then Penny can join us when we sing:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7lp3R..."
Haha!
Guys, he can't die before he finishes them. Seriously?! He's told the creators of the TV series how the story ends, but I don't know what I would do if I couldn't READ the proper end. :(
i love the bit about "If you keep writing so slow, you hold up the HBO show"And they wave the HBO theme song into this one. Love it!
Kat wrote: "Guys, he can't die before he finishes them. Seriously?!If he does die I refuse to believe it unless I physically see his decapitated body and even then best to set him on fire to make sure.
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David Sven wrote: "If he does die I refuse to believe it unless I physically see his decapitated body and even then best to set him on fire to make sure. "I'll spoiler-tag this just in case. (Penny, don't click!)
(view spoiler)
Rob wrote: "Do I know how to derail a thread or what? ROFL."That you do :)
I prefer a derailed thread to one in which no one seems to read what anyone posted so they all end up saying the same thing over and over.
George R. R. Martin is only 64 so I think chances that he'll finish the last two books before he dies are pretty good. I thought he had given notes to the producers of the show but I just read up on it and apparently he's just given them the major plot points.
I get the same reaction every time I mention that I've been bullied into reading GoT next - "It's about time!" :) So thanks guys!
I feel sort of sorry Martin in how everyone keeps speaking about him dying before the series is finished. He seems like a really great guy.
The Kindle has made me a bigger reader ( ie more books read), GoodReads has made me a more diversified reader ( more diverse genre) so due to that I am going to answer yes to the original question.I've been trying for a while to diversify out of Fantasy/SciFi into crime/mystery/thrillers and GoodRead has done an excellent job of recommending me books in that area( and a terrible job of recommending Graphic Novels, but that's not the topic).
Aildiin wrote: "The Kindle has made me a bigger reader ( ie more books read), GoodReads has made me a more diversified reader ( more diverse genre)"This
I'm with Aildiin and David on this one, the thing I love most about GoodReads is the new genres it's opened up for me. I've come across some great books across a broad spectrum, everything from classics to nonfiction to fantasy that I never would have, otherwise.
Definitely. More books here from various genre
Penny wrote: "Jon wrote: "Penny, drop everything you're doing and read ASOIAF ASAP!"Hehe, so you're against my plan to wait until he's finished the series then? It's on my to-read-soon list and I will get to i..."
Although i have read ASOIAF twice but I definitely think I should have waited for him to finish the series.That was also one of the reason why I was not starting Stormlight archives, but the speed at which Sanderson writes the books made me believe that I should start Stormlight Archive.
Also I hate the tv show of GOT I think they are going to ruin the series for me.
Has goodreads made me a better reader? Maybe? I don't really know. I will say this group has introduced me to some really great books. Series that I look forward to continuing and discussing. Or just reading what other peoples thoughts are.That being said, if we are reading a book and I don't participate at all, its because I didn't like the book and couldn't get into it. And I don't want to add any negativity to something that I didn't enjoy if its something that someone else really did enjoy.
I do have an addictive personality though. When it comes to series that I enjoy, I read fast and reread. I am listening to The Dresden files trying to refresh my memory. I have read the series twice and am going through my second listen through.
I wont say that Goodreads has made me a better reader - it has exposed me to groups of people that have a similar interest in books that i have - which has led me to a lot more books based on recommendations.I also like the challenge tracking.
I've been pondering this question for some time because for me the answer is a resounding yes.
I discovered this site about a year ago and although I wasn't very active at first, that gradually changed. I remember being impressed by the detail in many of the reviews I read back then because I thought the attention to detail was quite remarkable. Early exchanges with new friends here showed me how many deeper aspects of novels (fantasy and science fiction in particular) I wasn't paying enough attention to. Magic systems, world building and style of narration to name a few. Consistency of motivation and character development are aspects I've always paid attention to along with plot, but I realised through activity on Goodreads that I was only seeing about half a book has to offer. I'd like to think that I see more of it now, though I'm sure I still have lots left to learn.
Between group discussions and reading and writing reviews I've become far more aware as a reader. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this or if it's just me?