THE Group for Authors! discussion
Publishing and Promoting
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Web sites that give free downloads of eBooks
No, Jill, eBooks are not fair game, though they are, unfortunately, all too easy to steal and distribute. These are called pirate sites and they are illegal. They also know they're illegal. If you send these sites DMCA letters (essentially cease and desist letters for electronic copyright infringement) they often take your books down.
Only to be put back up a few days later...
That sucks I've never heard of these sites. Can we do a call out here?
Angel wrote: "No, Jill, eBooks are not fair game, though they are, unfortunately, all too easy to steal and distribute. These are called pirate sites and they are illegal. They also know they're illegal. If yo..."
Thanks, Angel, I'll try this.
A lot of authors use the service MUSO.com, and you can buy membership for as little as $15 a month for up to 50 takedowns if you sign up via the advertisement on ereads.com (look for the copyright/piracy blog).Torrents are one of the trickiest to get down, because no sooner does one go down that another pops up eg http://www.worldoffiles.net/getfile/6...
Hundreds of "innovators" try to make money off authors by selling subscriptions through paypal and making illegal links to ebooks often hosted on rapidshare, Scribd, Sendspace etc etc available to their subscribers.
One pirate site, ebookee sold for $6 million dollars last year. Piracy is big business. You will also find a lot of piracy on EBay, where pirates download collections of thousands of in-copyright books, burn them onto DVDs and sell tens of copies every week.
There are pirates on Facebook, on Word Press, on Blogger... everywhere, all ripping off authors and trading ebooks and being paid by advertisers (who like the high traffic these sites attract.) Google makes a great deal of money off piracy which is why they allegedly fund sites/groups such as EFF and Tech Dirt to fight any changes in copyright laws to protect authors.
Unfortunately, if DMCA notices don't work, authors cannot afford justice, because it costs tens of thousands of dollars to sue an infringer.... that is why Issa and Wyden's "OPEN" was such a horrible bill for independent and small press authors.
Here is another example....http://www.freebiemaster.net/may02.htmlscroll past the links to coupons to the stuff his subscribers really pay for, the "free books".
Authors do complain as they have standing (ie their book is there) to infringement report@PayPal.com but so far, this fellow is too profitable for PayPal, Google, Yahoo, SocialGo, Picasa and all the others to ban, so complaints appear to be ignored and the abuse continues.
He's even written a book which he sells for $4.99 telling others how profitable it is to set up clubs and sell lists of links to others!
Thanks Rowena for sharing your knowledge on this subject. I had no idea these people were so successful and obviously powerful. Very disappointing when you've spent 2 years writing a book and then marketing it only to find the pirates benefit. Also thanks for the MUSO.com info.
A lot of these sites are scams to get your credit card information...
Rowena wrote: "Here is another example....http://www.freebiemaster.net/may02.htmlscroll past the links to coupons to the stuff his subscribers really pay for, the "free books".
Authors do complain as they have ..."
I just went to freebiemaster. It's for sale!
This is horrible. I understand from this that we have to be extremely careful putting our work out on the net. Basically anyone can copy and sell the book.
And it is not just self publishers, but the players in the big leagues that are getting pirated as well. The difference, their publishers go after the pirate sites and work with congress to get loop holes closed through their trade associations...
Copyright law is copyright law. If the high priced attorneys working for the publishers prevail it should redound to the benefit of indies as well as far as pirating goes.
U.S. copyright law don't mean a thing to pirates when their websites are hosted in countries outside the U.S. territories and where the U.S. has very little sway due to the political climate in those countries.Also, a lot of these sites have disclaimers that they are not responsible for what their members post... Wink-wink.
Rowena wrote: "Here is another example....http://www.freebiemaster.net/may02.htmlscroll past the links to coupons to the stuff his subscribers really pay for, the "free books".
Authors do complain as they have ..."
If there was any justice in the world, one day I'd meet the fellow in a darkened alley way while I had a handy pickaxe handle nearby. Thieves are thieves, and when they sell books describing how other people can steal as well, it beggars belief.
Just one example. Ukraine is famous for its internet piracy. Today, I got this fan mail." I live in Ukraine, in the city of Lviv. I am 28 years old, I graduated from university. I have a friend, he is fluent in English. He loves to read modern literature in English. He reads a great many contemporary writers who write in English. He knows that I love children's books (though I have so many years :)), so one day he gave me your book (electronic) "The Red-Hot Rattoons " I liked it very much. And I read your books are "Marathon Miranda " and "The Best Friends Club ". But they were all in electronic form. I would like to hold one of your book in my hands , so I wrote to you, asking for your book."
PROBLEM? None of these books are in electronic form. They've all been pirated. What do you say in response?
Elizabeth wrote: "Just one example. Ukraine is famous for its internet piracy. Today, I got this fan mail." I live in Ukraine, in the city of Lviv. I am 28 years old, I graduated from university. I have a friend..."
It is disappointing to find ones books pirated, Elizabeth. The day I found my book pirated, I told an author friend and on checking the same site, she found her book on there too.
As to what to say in response to your fan, I'm at a loss for words. These people are probably oblivious to the fact that they are buying pirated goods. If it was me, I don't think I'd try to explain. Best wishes, Jill
FWIW, we have trouble even with the kind of academic works that cause most people to give up Sominex forever being pirated in Ukraine.Some countries have no understanding of copyright law. In those cases, there is not much one can do besides scream.
I took the liberty of adding a "Did you pirate something?" page to my website.
http://spidersparlor.com/did-you-pira...
Figure if someone is going to pirate my stuff the least they could do was pay me directly. :)
http://spidersparlor.com/did-you-pira...
Figure if someone is going to pirate my stuff the least they could do was pay me directly. :)
Spider wrote: "I took the liberty of adding a "Did you pirate something?" page to my website.http://spidersparlor.com/did-you-pira...
Figure if someone is going to pirate my stuff the least they coul..."
Haha good idea. There was someone saying he was going to put his own book on a pirate site a while back as he assumed it would end up there anyway. I think there are sites such as Piratebay where the downloaders can make a "contribution", although I could be wrong on that.
There was big argument around this guy wanting to post his book on a pirate site, as a lot of people thought it was just encouraging theives.
What's the difference between someone stealing your book and free publicity?Please, steal my books. Then pass them to your friends.
:)
Because it is theft. If I chose to have a free promotion then that is my choice, someone else taking it for their own gain is piracy.
I recommend a warning in the foreword of every eBook you publish:"REWARD FOR TURNING IN PIRATES! If you acquired this book without paying for it, you are just plum stupid. So, send your name and address to [your.email@here.com] and I, the rightful author of this book, will send you a special gift package! It's really great, too! You will receive a lifetime subscription to Jeffer's Vet Supply Catalog, Jameco Electronics Catalog, the Uline Catalog, and mailing lists from Fredericks of Hollywood, Adam and Eve, the Democratic National Party, Planned Parenthood, DirecTV, the NAACP, NOW, UNICEF, Crossdressers International, AARP, and the National Man-Boy Love Society. Finally, a $50 donation in your name will be sent to "Madame Calamatie's Acadian Potions and Magik" of New Orleans, with a request to cast one or more of the following spells:
- Relief from bothersome erections
- Sneezing in the presence of pretty girls
- Randomly roving toothache
- Inability to say "Seven"
- Inability to stop saying "Seven"
- Canine-specific body odor
- Fear of cats
Thank you for your kind participation."
Edward wrote: "What's the difference between someone stealing your book and free publicity?Please, steal my books. Then pass them to your friends.
:)"
I'm a newbie and this piracy issue is of course my concern, especially with ebooks. I'll need to know how to protect my ebooks if I sell them direct from my own website. So much advice to choose from. Any advice on which advice to follow?
I'm as concerned about piracy as the next person. I do think that there are some countermeasures that help. Pricing that makes it pretty lame to pirate. (I know. It won't stop some).
Some authors have gone to free books with clues or links to a pay website with highly interactive links. This works best for mystery writing and children's books. Then there's the whole speaking thing and merchandising (which can still be ripped off, too.)
I agree, too, with the approach that emulates what Smashwords puts in their stuff. It's essentially a notice that if you go the book for "free," it was stolen.
Thanks for your thoughts. I guess I'm going to have to learn a lot more about this before I can decide what to do.
This happens to me all the time. However, I suspect a lot of them are scam sites that provide "downloads" which are actually malware and keylogging software. I don't worry about it too much.Hosting giveaways, providing ARCs/galleys, enabling 'lending' on Kindle, and setting low ebook prices helps mitigate theft. If the cost of stealing outweighs the gain, people are less likely to do it--and I think a lot of ebooks are priced unfairly, which makes the temptation to steal rather too tempting (not that stealing is right).
I just found all my books on one of these sits, it is stealing and the author does not get any feedback to help them continue with their writting, I earn .35% of what I sell and very little of that I keep with copyrights for the covers and editing costs are paid out and when readers can steal it for free that takes any drive to actualy publish our work.
I had my book posted on a free site for a limited two week time. I was amazed that literally thousands of downloads were occurring. Then I discover sites from all over the world, Germany, Spain, Mexico, Island countries were all offering my book for the equivalent of about $15.00 (my book was on Amazon at $2.99 at that time). I stayed on the internet for days contacting literally hundreds of sites asking them to take the book down, and they all did with one exception. It was a lot of work and I am told that these companies, when caught, just change their name and move onto another site and do the same thing. Disgraceful when you spend so much time, list your book for the price of a beer or what you would pay the pizza delivery guy, and then find this sort of thing. many said that it wasn't piracy if I had ever listed my book for free and an attorney said that may be correct. Appalling. It is not on any free sites that I know of now, but who has time to police that?
S.K. wrote: "I had my book posted on a free site for a limited two week time. I was amazed that literally thousands of downloads were occurring. Then I discover sites from all over the world, Germany, Spain, ..."I know I should be flatterd that someone, or more like two had added me to the site, but the response I got from the site was not looking good to get them rmoved. They want a written statement to conferm who I am ( I write as a pen name, so that is impossible and a copy of my copyright notice, being a selfpublished author I could not afford to do that.
S.K. wrote: " many said that it wasn't piracy if I had ever listed my book for free and an attorney said that may be correct."
This is absolutely NOT correct. Copyright grants the rights holder a limited monopoly, and as you are the rights holder in this case, you can distribute as you see fit, for free or not, without automatically extending that right to anyone else.
A possible exception is if you include explicit permission to distribute. For example, I recently bought an ebook, and the author included a note on the copyright page that people could distribute it freely. That still doesn't invalidate the copyright per se (the work still belongs to her), but it does grant others permission for free distribution.
Your rights to civil action may be limited IF you knowingly allow or encourage illicit distribution. For ex, some authors write blog posts encouraging people to download their book from pirate sites, some even upload to the sites themselves, which can be interpreted as granting permission to others for this sort of distribution.
Merely giving away your book for free does not invalidate your rights.
Edited to add: Merely knowing your book is on pirate sites and not being able to keep up with them or feasibly pursue them is not the same as "knowingly allowing" it. It's more about whether you set a precedent of knowing but not caring. Some authors sit back and watch themselves become popular due to illicit sharing, then try to sue only when the properly is worth higher damages. This is frowned upon because the law is meant to protect all works equally, not serve as means for rights holders to cash in on it later.
This is absolutely NOT correct. Copyright grants the rights holder a limited monopoly, and as you are the rights holder in this case, you can distribute as you see fit, for free or not, without automatically extending that right to anyone else.
A possible exception is if you include explicit permission to distribute. For example, I recently bought an ebook, and the author included a note on the copyright page that people could distribute it freely. That still doesn't invalidate the copyright per se (the work still belongs to her), but it does grant others permission for free distribution.
Your rights to civil action may be limited IF you knowingly allow or encourage illicit distribution. For ex, some authors write blog posts encouraging people to download their book from pirate sites, some even upload to the sites themselves, which can be interpreted as granting permission to others for this sort of distribution.
Merely giving away your book for free does not invalidate your rights.
Edited to add: Merely knowing your book is on pirate sites and not being able to keep up with them or feasibly pursue them is not the same as "knowingly allowing" it. It's more about whether you set a precedent of knowing but not caring. Some authors sit back and watch themselves become popular due to illicit sharing, then try to sue only when the properly is worth higher damages. This is frowned upon because the law is meant to protect all works equally, not serve as means for rights holders to cash in on it later.
Ooh. That is a really helpful post, Christa. I'm definitely going to remember all that. Thanks! <3
Rights are of little value without recourse. So, what is the recourse?
One possible step is issuing DMCA Takedown Notices. You can get an overview of that here: http://rising.blackstar.com/how-to-se...
Note that if the site is hosted in a location that does not follow US copyright law they aren't required to respond.
If links to pirate sites come up on Google when searching for your book, you can report that here: https://support.google.com/webmasters...
Civil action can be taken against infringers, but in the realm of piracy, that isn't nearly as viable as it is in other forms of infringment. The targets are slippery. It's helpful to remember that a download from a pirate site does not necessarily equal a lost sale. The majority of ebooks downloaded never get read - they are downloaded by "collectors" that try to amass the largest collection possible.
I know that doesn't help assuage the feeling of being ripped off, and I'm not trying to minimize that at all, but the overwhelming majority of people who read your book will have done so legitimately. Pirate sites are known for having viruses and malware, and most people won't go near them. In addition, most people do respect copyright, or at the very least don't want to break the law.
It's also worth mentioning that some pirate sites post false download stats to increase membership by making their offerings look more popular. Something that's never been downloaded might say, "12,786 downloads this month" or some nonsense. Sometimes a file that has your book's name might not actually have your book in it.
Piracy is definitely a problem, but continuing to focus on your legitimate readership will pay off more than sweating the pirates. Take some time every few weeks to issue some takedown notices.
I have some other ideas, but my roommate is broken down and I have to go get him. :D I'll post a few more things later, if you're still interested.
Note that if the site is hosted in a location that does not follow US copyright law they aren't required to respond.
If links to pirate sites come up on Google when searching for your book, you can report that here: https://support.google.com/webmasters...
Civil action can be taken against infringers, but in the realm of piracy, that isn't nearly as viable as it is in other forms of infringment. The targets are slippery. It's helpful to remember that a download from a pirate site does not necessarily equal a lost sale. The majority of ebooks downloaded never get read - they are downloaded by "collectors" that try to amass the largest collection possible.
I know that doesn't help assuage the feeling of being ripped off, and I'm not trying to minimize that at all, but the overwhelming majority of people who read your book will have done so legitimately. Pirate sites are known for having viruses and malware, and most people won't go near them. In addition, most people do respect copyright, or at the very least don't want to break the law.
It's also worth mentioning that some pirate sites post false download stats to increase membership by making their offerings look more popular. Something that's never been downloaded might say, "12,786 downloads this month" or some nonsense. Sometimes a file that has your book's name might not actually have your book in it.
Piracy is definitely a problem, but continuing to focus on your legitimate readership will pay off more than sweating the pirates. Take some time every few weeks to issue some takedown notices.
I have some other ideas, but my roommate is broken down and I have to go get him. :D I'll post a few more things later, if you're still interested.
Thanks for that info - i appreciate it. I was shocked to see my book on free download site but there was no way to contact the owner or even know who it was!
Kathy, do you still have the name of the site? I don't want you to post a link here because I don't want to inadvertently give them traffic, but if you can PM it to me, I can use it as an example to give a step-by-step on tracking down a site's ISP for purposes of issuing a takedown notice.
Kathy wrote: "Thanks for that info - i appreciate it. I was shocked to see my book on free download site but there was no way to contact the owner or even know who it was!"there should be a copyright part to the site, or a mod. I was also on one of these sites and they were giving all my books away as free downloads. I contacted Amazon and they recommended informing the site ot the breach and the person who uploaded it a message. I copy and pasted a legal document that stateted how much money they could be fined with and I got my books removed. It is a pain, and I did feel a little guilty for lying that I had Amazon's backing but I got what I wanted.
Christa, I hope you were able to fix your roommate!
K.A. wrote: "Christa, I hope you were able to fix your roommate!"
Actually, I pulled into the bank parking lot where he was, and right after I got there, he got the van started. So it was sort of a wasted trip, but at least he was in the neighborhood so I didn't have to go far. :)
Actually, I pulled into the bank parking lot where he was, and right after I got there, he got the van started. So it was sort of a wasted trip, but at least he was in the neighborhood so I didn't have to go far. :)
When sites like Kobo limit the selection of books just because I live in Australia then where else do we get your books?I am willing to pay for books, even ones where I have a dead tree copy but if they put artificial barriers on markets then take a guess where people will turn?
Here is a clue, it starts with "pirate sites".
Keeping prices low and fair definitely prevents piracy.Some of those ebooks are priced ridiculously high...
I have no problems paying for quality. People want the freedom, putting BS limits on them (oh gee you live in Oz, our shipping costs for ebooks to there is too high????? or magic or something) then they get a little annoyed and will turn on you in a heart beat.Don't treat people like you want to squeeze the living crap out of them. Remove the BS barriers and they will be loyal.
I plan on buying the books of Ian Irvine's from Kobo that I can and just download the pirate copy of the Tale of Three Worlds series. I want it, there is no reason to stop me getting it from Kobo, pirate site here I come.
Now which pirate site do you recommend I can find Irvine's books on?I am willing to part $$$ for the Three worlds series because I loved them but since they are not available to me via legit means I will have to turn to "other" means.... you realise that is what the publishers force me to do, right?
Speak to yours, make sure people don't have the same reason I do for pirating Irvine's books. If you ARE a publisher and you do put these artificial barriers in place then you are part of the problem, sort it.
Vicki wrote: "Sounds like you need to invest in a Kindle."No, I guess you missed the part where I said this:
People want the freedom, putting BS limits on them then they get a little annoyed and will turn on you in a heart beat.
Vicki wrote: "Do they really limit your books?"Try looking up on Kobo "Demon haunted world" by Carl Sagan, it's not available to me on Kobo, it is if you are in the USA, is it available to you in the South Africa?
I am not fighting you or the publisher, just pointing out reality. With a product like ebooks why the hell would they limit the market? Why should I have to change to a different provider?It is NOTHING like the dead tree copies where they need a certain volume to even bother. With ebooks there is virtually no distribution costs. One single sale in Whogivesashitistan is another sale you would have missed out on but they filter out sales of your book to there because..... why again?
If publishing businesses require artificial barriers then they (and you) will end up like the music industry. Losing more and more every day to the sources that are not legit.
It is too late for the muso's and the movie industry the horse has bolted, learn from their mistakes, it is not too late. eBooks are a disruptive technology, adapt, die or try and get crappy laws passed that prop up a flagging business model and people will flock to pirate sites just to say "up yours, come get me"
I understand your situation, the publishers get to dictate the terms to you and the distributors. I understand that piracy will always be an issue, however it needs to be understood that not all people that pirate do so because they want your hard work for free.Removing the artificial market barriers will not make piracy go away but doing so will reduce the need to pirate. I would rather pay for books on Kobo because it is much easier to search what I am looking for and it keeps track of library. My entire purchase history is there waiting if I wish it.
What am I going to do to get Irvines Three Worlds ebooks? Pirate them, there is no other way for me. Irvine and the publisher miss out on my $$$$, why? Dunno ask them.
If enough authors ask about the limits of their eBook market and push the publishers to answer the awkward question of why they are doing so then it will change.
Keep in mind your market for eBooks is anybody with an internet connection.... that is also the market for the pirate sites. Wall off people like me from buying your book then where do we end up?
I don't envy you being caught between the publisher and the market but you are the only people that have the power to change this practice.
Has anyone else found this with their work?
I guess with eBooks we are fair game.