The Sword and Laser discussion
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Wool
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Wool: Discuss Book 1: Wool
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"Well Jeff," Kwan said as he pulled the whiskey from the shelf, "the asteroid i..."
YOLO
Tom wrote: "Personally I find it a little hard to believe that the variant personalities would all respond especially the same way especially when the selection bias is people on the fringe od acceptable behavior already. "
This was exactly how I felt. But I was willing to suspend disbelief because the real kicker is the revelation about the helmet. That hooked me. There are so many possible deceptions there - like - if the screen isn't transparent, then they must have a 3d image of the wearer's face projected externally as well for people watching the cleaning to look at.
David Sven wrote: "then they must have a 3d image of the wearer's face projected externally as well for people watching the cleaning to look at. "I have something for this but I can't remember what book it was in and don't want to spoil anything.
Kim wrote:I have something for this but I can't remember wh..."I've read the book so in spoiler tags maybe?
David Sven wrote: "Kim wrote:I have something for this but I can't remember wh..."I've read the book so in spoiler tags maybe?"
I wouldn't want anyone else to read them thinking they were spoilers from book 1 only.
The cleaning thing is what bugged me when I read this because I just don't think that every single person would clean the lenses for whatever reason. I imagine some would just say "Screw that, I'm off to the hills".
Rick wrote: "The cleaning thing is what bugged me when I read this because I just don't think that every single person would clean the lenses or whatever reason. I imagine some would just say "Screw that, Im of..."Keep reading . . . . .
Rik wrote: "Keep reading..."That's a special circumstance though. That person didn't have a standard-issue suit, if I'm reading between the lines correctly.
Angela wrote: "True, it is a death sentence. But I just think it is cruel to make the condemned person believe things are better outside. Why give them hope of a life in a better world, when they will die horribly, anyway?"I agree, also how many of them died in the suit thinking if they could just get it off they'd live? It seems excessively cruel.
I don't see why the landscape would cause you to clean but if that is true then at least have it malfunction so they die knowing they were tricked.
Rick wrote: "The cleaning thing is what bugged me when I read this because I just don't think that every single person would clean the lenses or whatever reason. I imagine some would just say "Screw that, Im of..."Yes I'm also surprised that hasn't happened, particularly among the convicted. Or perhaps it has and it just wasn't reported. After all, if the lens isn't cleaned, as far as the population is concerned, maybe no one has gone out. They could theoretically keep kicking people out the airlock until they run out of suits or people...
David Sven wrote: "This was exactly how I felt. But I was willing to suspend disbelief because the real kicker is the revelation about the helmet. That hooked me. There are so many possible deceptions there - like - if the screen isn't transparent, then they must have a 3d image of the wearer's face projected externally as well for people watching the cleaning to look at. "
I think it could be a relatively simple half-silvered mirror type affair. There ought to be LED substrates that are effectively transparent/translucent when viewed from behind at least in the near future. The bendy stuff is certainly already possible. Tom would probably know - he reports this stuff...
Are we assuming that everyone who is sent to clean is given the same experience? Would true criminals (murders, etc.) be given a view of paradise or is this a punishment reserved for people like Holston and his wife?
And if criminals are put out... why wouldn't they do the natural 'frack you' thing and sabotage the lenses either by damaging them or by covering them? I'm also not really convinced about the strong prohibition on going outside (that is, why not have regular maintenance of the lenses by people in fully working suits?). On the other hand, that's an easy suspension of disbelief for me... the taboo preexists the story and just is something that the society has.
One thing I'm wondering about is - did IT deliberately manipulate the data and leave it for Holston's wife to find?
Margit wrote: "Are we assuming that everyone who is sent to clean is given the same experience? Would true criminals (murders, etc.) be given a view of paradise or is this a punishment reserved for people like Ho..."For sure, if they can play one set of false imagery, they can play another. We only have Holsten's account at this time.
Tom wrote: "Far more of a bother to me than the visor was why he cleaned the lens. More, why everyone cleaned the lens. If I was one of the people put outside for murder, or some other crime, which is implied as a punishment, why would I clean? I didn't want to go outside."I also had a bit of trouble suspending belief on this at first. Then I considered that if someone had the ability to change the view in the visor, why did the view on the displays have to be a "Live Feed". Why couldn't it be a delayed feed and if someone who goes outside decides not to clean the lens, why not just display a saved view from some other cleaning event and a rerun of the view outside until your next cleaning.
Ok found the reference and it was in book 1. No one watches the Cleanings. The people find it too uncomfortable. Holston says the top floor is always empty at Cleaning time.David Sven wrote: "There are so many possible deceptions there - like - if the screen isn't transparent, then they must have a 3d image of the wearer's face projected externally as well for people watching the cleaning to look at."
In the same paragraph Holston says he did watch his wife and he couldn't see her face "through her silver-masked helmet".
Thanks Kim -I'd forgotten about that.
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Intriguing!
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Personally I didn't give any thought to why the criminals would all clean the lenses. I still don't really need one.
I'm definitely excited to continue on.
After listening to this book, I found myself wishing that we hadn't found out what Holston really saw in his last moments. Reading the comments here, though, reminded me how taken in I was at the time. I was sure it was really a paradise, but that the suit would poison him. The revealed deception does set the stage properly for the rest of the book. I am happier with this twist now.
Tim wrote: "I thought that was a nice twist. But if the air is that toxic, why do they not concentrate on simply building a better protected suit? It can't be very corrosive or the structure of the silo on the..."Keep reading.
Rik wrote: "I read this whole thing a few months back and it was the first book that really hooked me. I couldn't believe they'd kill off the guy who you thought was going to be the book protagonist. As to..."
I know right? LOVED that!
One caveat. Yeah, everything's made of corn. Got it after the third or fourth reference (including the 'corn grits' -Yankee alert-!) Let it go, already. FYI, maize is NOT the best crop for that. Hemp likely is.
I have not read the book, and probably won't, but the description reminded me of Arthur C. Clarke's Against the Fall of Night/The City and the Stars. I was wondering if anyone who has read Wool sees any similarity with Clarke's books.
My initial impression is that this would be a Logan's Run type of story where the reality of the outside world would be the antithesis of what people inside the silos saw. The twist at the end darn near killed me. It was so gut wrenching.
Tim wrote: "My initial impression is that this would be a Logan's Run type of story where the reality of the outside world would be the antithesis of what people inside the silos saw. The twist at the end darn..."I was pretty impressed by the way he just kept twisting. He may be a misogynist dickcheese, but he can spin a yarn.
As far as the suit and visor goes, this isn’t a “hard science fiction” story, so to me the tech doesn’t have to make total sense. It’s about the story and characters. I just enjoy the ride and don’t over-analyze every piece of technology. I finished book one, which was free, and loved it, so I went ahead and bought the Kindle edition.
I have to admit , even with the later input, I really don't see why all the people sent out clean, and honestly, why it is even necessary. It does work wonderfully in the short story, but for me it makes less and less sense the further the story goes.
I do admit I was in the "the suit is killing him, not the outside" crowd, so the twist was really well done.
Nekroskop wrote: "I have to admit , even with the later input, I really don't see why all the people sent out clean, and honestly, why it is even necessary. It does work wonderfully in the short story, but for me ..."
I think the real reason people are sent out to clean is to make an example for the rest of the citizens. The need a constant reminder that the air outside is toxic so they will live in fear inside the silo, especially when the worst crime imaginable is wanting to go outside.
It's less about the actual cleaning of the camera lens and more about making sure there is another body piled up on the hill reminding the citizens that death is just outside the door.
I have only got to chapter 10 but I was impressed with the twist with the helmet I was waiting for someone to come along and save him or something, so I am loving this book already with its twists and turns. its got me hooked.
Got book 1 free on Amazon. Fantastic! Now I have to get the rest. So... the cleaning pads are wool. That means they have sheep down there???Honestly, the Silo itself reminded me of The Sunset Warrior
Really enjoyed the first part. I definitely thought the suit was triggered to kill the person wearing in, in order to keep control of the people in the silo, so I was really surprised by the helmet thing. Really great twist, and I'm very interested in finding out more.Side note to the people who quote a question and then write 'keep reading': You do know that's actually kind of a spoiler, don't you? I mean, I'm pretty spoiler sensitive, and others aren't so much, but to me, saying that tells me which things will be covered later, and makes me reluctant to ask any question, because what I'm really doing is wondering, and I want to keep wondering until I find out otherwise, and I'm happy for others to wonder with me if they, like me, don't yet know, but if you already know and say 'keep reading' that kind of kills some of the surprise for me. Also, it doesn't really add anything to a discussion: it sort of kills it. Just assume we will keep reading. :)
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I guess some people might suddenly quit, but personally if I have a bunch of questions, I'm going to keep reading to see if they are answered.
Rob wrote: "I really enjoyed the first story and was totally suckered. I'll have to be more on my guard going forward.Personally I didn't give any thought to why the criminals would all clean the lenses. I still don't really need one.
I'm definitely excited to continue on."
Hmm, this is exactly what I felt. Reading through this thread now (only partway into Book 2, so without good knowledge of what's to come), I guess I can kind of question why "they always clean the lenses," but I'm an engineer, not a psychologist, I do very poorly with "human things." ;) (Side note, my sister and brother-in-law ARE psychologists, as is my mom, I wonder what they'd say...maybe I'll ask this weekend)
I will say that for myself, I've been in situations I was "prepared for" and expected to respond one way and responded completely differently. They're usually high-stress situations. Guess you never know what you'll really do.
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My boyfriend is an engineer!...that doesn't add much to the discussion but I wanted to chip in. Engineers are cool. Mad respect, yo.
I don't know what twist people were looking for but with all the clues throughout the first book it was pretty obvious what was gonna happen to holston. Not to say it was a bad thing it has inspired me to want to read more.
Thane wrote: "Got book 1 free on Amazon. Fantastic! Now I have to get the rest. So... the cleaning pads are wool. That means they have sheep down there???."That thought crossed my mind too. Where did they get the wool?
I think William is rightm,and that that is the reason, also because, I guess, once they see that the world is not a horrible apocaliptic wasteland, they calm themselves, just as Holston did, and they clean willingly, thinking that they can do that for their peers before wanderin this new amazing land, and then, they just die.I haven´t read the next books yet, well the second one, but at first I thought that they were also poisoned, I guess I was didn't wanted to admit that the exterior is a hostile wasteland. I just suffered when Holston died.
AndrewP wrote: "Where did they get the wool?"Interesting question, isn't it? Why would they be using pig milk for coffee if they have sheep? Why aren't there more references to mutton than corn? For all the mentions of vegetables, there are no mentions of what goes to feed the sheep and "pigs", and only one mention of the smell of pig manure (which is amazingly foul and probably deserves its own chapter) yet no one has seen a pig. Also, if they have farm animals down there, why aren't their wastes being used to fertilize the farms, fuel a methane digester, etc.
I think there's a lot more to these omissions than meet the eye, and I shall be quite sorry if my hopes do not come to some sort of expository fruition.
Firstname wrote: "AndrewP wrote: "Where did they get the wool?"I think they don't mean wool in that way, I think the book is called wool because of the thing that cover their eyes.
Rodrigo wrote: "Firstname wrote: "AndrewP wrote: "Where did they get the wool?"I think they don't mean wool in that way, I think the book is called wool because of the thing that cover their eyes."
Yes, I'm reading a little deeper into the text than just the title. Thanks so much for recognizing same.
The community must use methane somewhere. It seems like they use and recycle as much as they can.
Firstname wrote: "I think they don't mean wool in that way, I think the book is called wool because of the thing that cover their eyes."Yes, I'm reading a little deeper into the text than just the title. Thanks so much for recognizing same.."
My point was that if there are no sheep then there would be no wool. In fact they probably have no idea what wool is. Hence the phrase 'pull the wool over their eyes' would have absolutely no meaning :)
AndrewP wrote: "Firstname wrote: "I think they don't mean wool in that way, I think the book is called wool because of the thing that cover their eyes."Sure, except that the pads are (allegedly) made of wool, so where the heck is it coming from? (view spoiler)
I was deeply conflicted, the deeper I got into this story. I wanted Holston to get free, discover the world had healed, and find his wife. And the author provided enough tantalizing hints that it could be true, it could end that way, that part of me hoped for that happy(ish, at least for Holston) ending. And yet, it didn't feel like that sort of story, with the predictable happy ending. It felt like there were mysteries that went WAY deeper than "Duh, folks, the screen is a projection, you can leave whenever you want."
As much as one part of me wanted Holston to live happily ever after, another part of me knew that wasn't the better story, and was rooting for the better, more unexpected story.
Part of me wanted to go down the rabbit hole, all the way to the bottom, and leave poor Holston to have tea and cyanide with his dead wife.
William wrote: "I assumed it was steel wool."That's gonna scratch the heck out of the camera lenses.
The Sword and Laser
Books mentioned in this topic
The Sunset Warrior (other topics)Against the Fall of Night (other topics)
The City and the Stars (other topics)
"Well Jeff," Kwan said as he pulled the whiskey from the shelf, "the asteroid is going to hit earth." He pauses to gulp the whiskey, "Might as well clean the lens"