Characters or Plot?

[Jim]

Lynda wrote: "Is it the characters or the plot which makes a book more enjoyable? Okay, there have to be well defined characters, but what they do, their interactions and reactions - do they engage the reader?
Just asking."

It's a good question. I can't think of a good answer. Both usually, sometimes one more than the other, though.

[Marc]

Characters, always. The plot, the setting, everything is viewed through the eyes of the characters. If I don't I don't empathize with them, feel with them,then the rest doesn't matter.

[Lynda]

Now is the time. We need a completely new supernatural creature.

Has anyone created one, and is willing to share? As I said in my reply to Jim, no aliens please. Halfbreeds are acceptable.

I will oiffer a part-breed, a witch with a vampire grandfather. He wasn't that vampiric at the time. My witch is still discovering her heritage... with her grandad's creator. Partly incestuous with a lot of cringe.

[Lynda]

Okay. My vote, for what it's worth - it's the plot. And you can do so much more with past-human abilities, go where it's really weird. But... no plot, no engagement with the characters.... do you really want to read on?

[Marc]

Lynda wrote: "Now is the time. We need a completely new supernatural creature.

Has anyone created one, and is willing to share?"

I have quite a few in my unpublished novel Ghostkiller. Ghostkillers are essentially vampires of the dead, draining life from ghosts to sustain themselves. There is a more monstrous form of this, in which a dead Ghostkiller's body remains active, and mobile, ready and able to drain life from anything. A vampire zombie that kills with a touch.

[James]

As always with these kind of questions, there's no easy answer.

For me, it depends on if the character's personality & flaws are the driver or focus of the action. If yes, then characterisation is more important than the plot, although they are both very entwined here.

But consider something like The Trial - he's arrested for no good reason & with no explanation given. His character makes *no difference* to his fate - that's the point. So plot is Motrin charge here.

[James]

Yeah, but I'm not saying Josef K doesn't have a character (although I think he's a bit of an Everyman that we project a lot onto). I'm saying in that novel, character is subservient to plot. If Josef K was angrier or more vengeful or whatever, it would make very little difference to the story.

Whereas, in say Hamlet, if he wasn't so introspective he'd have killed the King's murderer waaaaaay earlier, and the plot would have been completely different. So character IS the plot, here, essentially.

I'm not saying character or plot is unimportant in any book really. Just in different books one is more important than the other.

[Lynda]

Marc wrote: "Lynda wrote: "Now is the time. We need a completely new supernatural creature.

Has anyone created one, and is willing to share?"

I have quite a few in my unpublished novel Ghostkiller. Ghostkille..."

Marc wrote: "Lynda wrote: "Now is the time. We need a completely new supernatural creature.

Has anyone created one, and is willing to share?"

I have quite a few in my unpublished novel Ghostkiller. Ghostkille..."

Now that has interesting possibilties. I can see the strengths, but weaknesses? Or can't they be dispatched?

[Lynda]

Randolph wrote: "James wrote: "As always with these kind of questions, there's no easy answer.

For me, it depends on if the character's personality & flaws are the driver or focus of the action. If yes, then chara..."

I have found, since I became obsessed with my characters, that they developed as I wrote. The more you write, the better you get. And endless tinkering with the text is, I'm told, the sign of a good writer, not an incompetent one. Keep trying.

[Lynda]

Mentioning Hamlet, if we didn't have the flaws (introspection) we wouldn't have the play. Well, not the one we've got, anyway. I get the same problems. Pretty girl in haunted house. If she doesn't go traipsing off alone against all sense & reason, there'd be no tale to tell. The best thing to do in a haunted house is sit tight and wait until morning, then go hunting, since the 'haunting' is often done by a quite-live psychopath. A candle or pocket torch is inadequate as a weapon. And why do the vampire killers always choose sunset as the best time to slaughter a sleeping vamp? Okay, it takes all day to get to the castle & you can't travel at night. But you can hunker down, protect yourself, and wait until morning. Plenty of opportunity for lurid text before you off the undead in the light of dawn.

[Michael]

Lynda wrote: "Now is the time. We need a completely new supernatural creature.

Has anyone created one, and is willing to share? As I said in my reply to Jim, no aliens please. Halfbreeds are acceptable.

I will..."

I have a "shroud eater," a creature in Venice that is a cross between a vampire and a ghoul. They don't have any of the vampire traits or limitations, but they eat flesh and drink blood. They are able to move to different times in Venice by walking through the bricked-up doorways that are all over the city. They come about when a corpse buried during the plague eats the flesh of other corpses and rises from the grave.

The book will be published in September Learn more on my site.

Michael E. Henderson

[Marc]

Lynda wrote: "Now that has interesting possibilties. I can see the strengths, but weaknesses? Or can't they be dispatched?"

The creature is mindless, it simply follows the pull of the greatest life force it currently senses, which I call 'lure'. This makes it easy to trap and divert. It doesn't decay, as long as it can absorb life force to repair the body. If a Revenant touches a normal man it just kills him. If it touches another Ghostkiller it turns him into another Revenant. Somewhere on the grounds of Ghostkiller International is a bit of earth where no Ghostkiller ever goes, where the few Revenants ever captured are buried. No one's willing to dig them up and check if they've really died yet. It can be destroyed easily, but the side-effects are disastrous in the extreme if not handled correctly. You've heard of the Black Death, right?
The alternative title for the book is 'Patchwork Demon.'

[Werner]

Some people would argue that the character vs. plot issue is a false dichotomy. What characters do and the choices they make are certainly part of the plot; but to a great extent, who characters essentially are is very often most effectively revealed by their actions and choices. Quite a few examples come to mind, both in and outside of the supernatural genre.

[Marc]

Werner wrote: "Some people would argue that the character vs. plot issue is a false dichotomy. What characters do and the choices they make are certainly part of the plot; but to a great extent, who characters e..."

That's very true, but characters move and plots don't, and I prefer to follow the bouncing ball. I'd rather be invisible as an author. When the characters are doing the work of discovering and perceiving, I don't have to make myself obvious with descriptions and narration. As a reader, I often skip over tedious description/narration to get to the next set of quotation marks.

[John]

Its been my expereince from writing that once you have the charcters donw to the point that they are alive in your mind that the scenarion where you place them has the charcaters write what they do next themselves....I dont know if that applies to everything i have read of course creatures like Frankenstein a non human may throw soem monkee wrenches into it, but when you think of it even after the monster showd his human kind side....the attacks on him brought forth the angry side.....

[Lynda]

John wrote: "Its been my expereince from writing that once you have the charcters donw to the point that they are alive in your mind that the scenarion where you place them has the charcaters write what they do..."

Of course, if they do (the characters) come alive for you, they can take you to places where you didn't think you were going. Mine do that. Hussies. That's how an intended trilogy is now five books and counting.

[John]

Lynda wrote: "John wrote: "Its been my expereince from writing that once you have the charcters donw to the point that they are alive in your mind that the scenarion where you place them has the charcaters write..."

I agree I anticipate up to 9 books in my series, hussies eh? sounds interseting, about a third of mine become demons...;-)

[Benjamin]

I just noticed this thread. I have to wonder if there is a major third element that is being completely overlooked, particularly for the horror/weird tale genre.

Plot vs Characters... what about Atmosphere?

[John]

Good point Benjamin, although sometimes a juxtaposition of a fun pleasnt atmosphere with dark characters acn make things even more frighteneing....in my humble opinion...or reversed it becomes like the Munsters or the Addams Family..:-)