Speaker Geeks! discussion
Religious Debates
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Do religious people refuse to accept science?
H99 wrote: "Lex wrote: "So many comments that I'd like to respond to, but so little time... lol.Religion: We keep using the term religion and religious. There are several derivative definitions - a set of ..."
@H99... I have really fast fingers! lol.
Yes, that's exactly what I've been saying. You did it better in far fewer words... thanks!
Abigail wrote: "H99 wrote: "Lex wrote: "So many comments that I'd like to respond to, but so little time... lol.Religion: We keep using the term religion and religious. There are several derivative definitions..."
@Abigail... Hmmm. You could be right that I'm "hating on the Catholic Church". I certainly take no offense at that statement. "Hate" is rather strong, but I do, in fact, strongly disagree, dislike and find...okay...abominable, the history and negative historical impact that the Church has had on people since its inception.
BTW, I have the same strong feelings toward politicians and political states that oppress their people, and/or financial giants that squash the hopes and dreams of everyday folks.
Paigetwo wrote: "Ive noticed there is some confusion.. I hate when peoplr do this thiugh, so ill clear it out. There is a DIFFERENCE between being a Christian and being a Catholic. Its an important difference. Peop..."@Paigetwo... Yeah! That's what I've been sort of saying all along... Christianity is a way of life (like Buddhism), not a religion. The Catholic Church and it's protestant off-shoots made it a religion.
I'd have to disagree with some of your other statements here, but... won't be nit-picky... ;o)
Liane wrote: "H99 wrote: "Liane wrote: "Lex wrote: "Liane wrote: "@Lex It would seem so :) It's always nice to meet a like-minded person.@H99 & Lex
I'm curious what you guys think of the multiverse theory, as..."
Liane - Your description of the politics and religion in the Philippines is worse than I would have imagined. My sympathies. The picture you showed is awesome in its ugliness. Catholic monks, especially a particular group, are well known for self flagellation as penance. Weird, is all I can say. At least they... uh, keep it to themselves... lol.
Agree with your statement on Buddhism. Almost every time I mention that Buddhism is not a religion, I get kick-back. "Well, it it's not a religion, Smart-A, how come they have temples?" Yeah. I generally decline to engage in that discussion.
PS: That's some excellent graphic art on your profile. Do you do it yourself?
I live in India. Here we have a plethora of religions and every religion has its own rituals and practices. Most people are tolerant of each other, but in a country which houses more than 1.21 billion citizens, some conflicts are bound to happen.Living in a diverse country has taught me one thing: All religions are different but they are exactly the same! They teach us to be satisfied with what we have and attaining inner peace and happiness is considered the ultimate goal.
The differences that exist have arisen out of different interpretations by people.
In my view, science in itself can also be considered a religion, because it aims to spread happiness by quenching the thirst of knowledge.
Well there is a religion based on science. Its called Scientology... I personally disagree with it though.
Paigetwo wrote: "Well there is a religion based on science. Its called Scientology... I personally disagree with it though."...I have never even heard of it. No offence, but it sounds dumb.
Well, again, maybe all of us here should just redefine 'Religion'. Everyone has a different view of what is is. Just because you believe in something does NOT make it a religion. I believe religion is used to describe a particular faith with legitimate beliefs.... I also believe that religion has to involve an afterlife, or something about the afterlife (whether it be Heaven, hell, or nothing) to be actually called a religion.
That's just my opinion.
Scientology isn't really a religion. Its hard to describe but you pay to find stuff about the world, how it was made and why we exist, the more you pay the more you get to know! Various celebrities have been involved for example Tom Cruise. Well that is about all I remember of learning about it in school.
I guess though a religion is something in which people believe in something enough to say that they have faith in it.
When you say The Church, do you mean the Catholic Church?
Evan wrote: "Scientology isn't really a religion. Its hard to describe but you pay to find stuff about the world, how it was made and why we exist, the more you pay the more you get to know! Various celebrities..."
Well said...totally agree.
Well said...totally agree.
Liane wrote: "Paigetwo wrote: "When you say The Church, do you mean the Catholic Church?"Christian, we're a Christian country"
What a sad commentary on your government, Liane. Is there a difference in the Philippines - a Christian country and the Middle Eastern countries that are Islamic? No. They are all oppressed by religion.
Many Americans are under the misconception that the USA was founded in the name of Christianity, and is... a Christian country. That couldn't be further from the truth. The original settlers of America came from all over Europe and one of their goals was to escape religious dominance over their lives. A large number of the country's forefathers and leaders made it abundantly clear in their actions and words that they believed and wanted religious freedom (that includes the freedom not to believe in any religious dogma) in the country's government and as the rule of law in the new land.
Paigetwo: Generally, when folks speak of "The Church" they intend that to be the Catholic Church, yes... ;o)
I wont say it because of that
Lex wrote: What a sad commentary on your government, Liane. Is there a differ..."There is a book called American Gods which is about the Gods people took over with them to America. It is a little far fetched as it suggests Ancient Egyptians went to America but it does bring up some really good questions about what the true religion of the USA is.
no im not I think its wrong to say under god
AlanCummingFan wrote: "no im not I think its wrong to say under god"Why?
I dont stant for it because it would be disrespectful because I dont to look im respecting something that I realy dont
that makes no sense to you does it
Your respecting the country and if you don't respect it, I ask, why are you in this country?
Because Im not old anough to decide were Im at
Oh, and were your parents born here or did they move here?
What I don't get is why you guys DON'T believe in God...
Yea, but I feel bad for them for what they're missing. And the way you made it sound, you must be Catholic? Because that's what they say. "The Church". Im Christian. Not to be confused with Catholicism.
A great life with a loving God.
Paigetwo wrote: "What I don't get is why you guys DON'T believe in God..."Becuase we don't believe that one 'man' could've built this whole universe. If there is someone 'above' us with greater power than anyone in the universe, why is he not the one to make all the decisions? I understand, or we understand, that people believe in God because they want 'him' to be there to guide them through their lives. I also think that people believe in God because they want/need someone to look up to. I respect that. but, i dont believe the He exists.
Evan wrote: "Scientology isn't really a religion. Its hard to describe but you pay to find stuff about the world, how it was made and why we exist, the more you pay the more you get to know! Various celebrities..."Scientology isn't a religion full stop. I cannot understand how they were able to make it into a church. Scientology takes over peoples lives...
.... You know, everyone can believe in what they want. There is really no need to argue...
Abigail wrote: ".... You know, everyone can believe in what they want. There is really no need to argue..."I know. My friend believes in Evolution adn God...
I dont have a problem with that
Liane wrote: "Abigail wrote: ".... You know, everyone can believe in what they want. There is really no need to argue..."Well isn't a debate supposed to be arguing and discussing? :)"
LOL... exactly, it need only remain polite.
Kaketin wrote: "Scientology isn't a religion full stop. I cannot understand how they were able to make it into a church. Scientology takes over peoples lives..."As does ALL religions.
L.Ron Hubbard was the founder of Scientology. I'm sure you all know that Hubbard was a famous science fiction writer. What you might not know is that he started talking about science as a religion to counter the monotheistic religions... really only as an "experiment". He succeeded all too well... lol.
Kaylee wrote: "Lex wrote: "Kaketin wrote: "Scientology isn't a religion full stop. I cannot understand how they were able to make it into a church. Scientology takes over peoples lives..."As does ALL religions...."
LOL... that quote wipes "suspicion" off the wall. I would call that expert witness testimony and complete ignorance of the 5th Amendment!
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Paigetwo's "missing great life with God"-- agree with Liane and H99
Scientology-- I've never heard of it before, but now that I have it doesn't seem much like a religion. And if what Lex said right above me, if that's true than the person who created probably doesn't believe it all either.
Listen, Im just saying, there is so much evidence that proves He is there. How about this, listen to this song: "Worn" by: Tenth Ave. North
Kaylee wrote: "Paigetwo wrote: "Listen, Im just saying, there is so much evidence that proves He is there. How about this, listen to this song: "Worn" by: Tenth Ave. North"There is also much evidence against ..."
I totally agree with Kaylee, Paigetwo. You hear a song, written by regular people and think that is evidence for the existence of God. That's a personal opinion that transforms to support your belief.
Here's another song for you, "Imagine" by John Lennon. This song was the inspiration, in part for a trilogy that I've written. It talks about a world where there is no heaven, no hell and no religion. A world where people live to love people. The lyrics are not supportive of any god. They do, however, paint a beautiful picture that one can strive for without the artificial support of some omniscient being.
I think, too, that that's what Jesus was all about... not God, not religion. In fact, I think that "my" Jesus, in the books, "No Heaven", "No Hell" and "No Religion" is a much better, kinder and spiritual, fictional character than the one depicted in the Bible's New Testament... ;o).
H99 wrote: "Abigail wrote: ".... You know, everyone can believe in what they want. There is really no need to argue..."Agreed, but a debate is for arguing and discussing, isn't it?"
Yes, I just meant I felt a slight bit of hostility coming off, even virtually...
Kaylee wrote: "Paigetwo wrote: "Listen, Im just saying, there is so much evidence that proves He is there. How about this, listen to this song: "Worn" by: Tenth Ave. North"There is also much evidence against ..."
That's true. It's really a matter of how you were brought up, and what you were lead to believe and WHY you believe it.
Everyone can make their own decision on faith that is what free will is. For many the reason why they don't believe in God is to do with the evil in the world. At school I am taught this quote by John Hick, "Evil is a perpetual burden of doubt for the believer and an obstacle for the non believer". Evil is the largest reason for people not believing. The reason for this is put well by Mackie in his Inconsistent Triad. This can be used to show that either evil does not exist, (which is hard to believe unless you are a monist) or that God is all loving as it says in the bible but is not powerful enough to stop it so he is not omnipotent, or He is omnipotent but he allows evil so it suggests he is not all loving.
Collectively this makes it hard to believe in God, yes some people have made theodicies to prove Gods innocence in this but they still are flawed.
Overall it is our decision to make. You cannot force it upon us to believe.
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I agree--one of the many reasons I started doubting God is because of the evil out there. That, and things such as the "stay away from women when they're on their period" and "marriage is between a man and a woman" things.
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I just wonder why, if there was a God, that he or she would do that.
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Hey G.K.! Nice to see you in this group :)
Anyways-- even now, doesn't everyone have a evil side to them? I doubt there can be a perfectly pure person, not even the God that people believe in.
H99 wrote: "Katelyn-I Really dont care wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Kaylee wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Well, I don't think he has pride, but love. He just loves all his creations, and he's proud of them, but it's not the ..."
Oh about the story thing I said... No it was in the middle of nowhere, pretty much.
Oh about the story thing I said... No it was in the middle of nowhere, pretty much.
So that's what I'm saying. I have no clue how she'd know unless there are stuff that... well, doesn't correspond with science.
G.K. wrote: "@Kaylee: I found something that might somewhat answer your question. (I did copy this from gotquestions.org because I am typing this out on a tablet right now) There are two different Hebrew word..."
That's cool. I never knew that!
Well, about the Noah's Ark stuff, I think at that time, the 'evl;' Nephilim were kinda taking over the population, so God decided to kill them all off to start anew...
I've been away a few days and notice that this discussion board has shifted to a model of the Amazon forums whereby religious folks join the fray and contribute nothing more than Bible verses as their arguments for the existence of God. Welcome, G.K. you wrote: " 'every thought of man was evil'. So basically, there was NO good in people's hearts."
That Bible verse would fit perfectly into the mouth of an evangelistic preacher in a bad horror movie.
You also wrote: "... The latter one is the one prohibited by the Ten Commandments, not the former. In fact, ratsakh has a broader definition than the English word “murder.” Ratsakh also covers deaths due to carelessness or neglect but is never used when describing killing during wartime. That is why most modern translations render the sixth commandment “You shall not murder” rather than “You shall not kill.”
G.K. - Since the title of this discussion pertains to religious folks' non-acceptance of science, I suppose it would do no good to say tell you that science has proven, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the books that make up the Bible's Old Testament were written over a long period of time (hundreds of years) by at least 700 different scribes. These books were written in different languages and translations often "change" the word meaning.
So... NOT the words of God, but those of power hungry rulers designed to control the subservient masses.
Additionally, the Old Testament was written to provide a "history" for the Israelites (Jews) as they sought to differentiate and separate themselves from their true heritage as Caananites.
The New Testament was written over a period of hundreds of years, by different authors, none of whom were eyewitnesses to the events depicted.
Bottom line: Using Bible verses in a discussion concerning science is oxymoronic.
One more light jab... The story of Noah's Ark occurred when everyone believed that the world was flat, and no one lived on the "underside" because they'd fall off.
What kept all that water from flowing over the edges of the world, creating huge waterfalls along all four sides?
Just kidding... no need to provide explanation... lol
Touché, G.K and thanks for the response... ;o). Sorry, if I came over a little "heavy" on the subject.Yes, different world views. I accept yours with no problems. My beef was and is with monotheists who use unproven statements (like Bible verses) to support their arguments.
Catholics even have a special breed of folks that "defend" the faith... they are called "apologists", and they have another, separate and distinct group, that argue against other religions (or heretics)... these great folks are called "polemics". Not to worry, Islam has similar groups.
A favorite quote of mine that kind of sums up my world view: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful." Seneca the Younger, 4BC - AD 65.
I completely agree with you. Just because a person is labelled as a 'Christian' does not mean they are completely against science, and how things were hypothetically created. I believe in both.