Speaker Geeks! discussion
Religious Debates
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Do religious people refuse to accept science?
God created Eve to be Adam's wife, to be equal. To have kids. This was before sin came into the world. But I really don't feel like having a debate about my faith for the millionth time, just read the bible if you are interested in knowing more :)
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Whoever said the bible is not sexist is wrong, but there are reasons for that. If you want to go into that, then I'd be happy to, but maybe make a new topic...?
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She WAS a partner though. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here...?
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Good point!
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Well, IMHO, Eve and Adam were made as match, so they could be the ideal husband and wife, loving and perfect for each other.
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Why was it dictated that they shoud love each other an..."
GOOD QUESTION.
Liane wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Even though Lilith may have once been a feminist, I think she's more of a misogynistic now."
How? I'd have said she was mysandrist, not misogynist."
Sorry, that's what I meant. Got mixed up there.
Kaylee wrote: "H99 wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Well, IMHO, Eve and Adam were made as match, so they could be the ideal husband and wife, loving and perfect for each other."Why was it dictated that they shoud love e..."
I don't think it was as much 'dictated' but they loved each other, and gave themselves to each other.... and they loved God as well, so they understood what he wanted. I'v never thought about it as what they HAD to do, but what they WANTED to do.
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Well, I think this I'm actually Catholic, but, I just read the Bible, and I believe. The fact is that the Bible is not exact. It mentions, yes, that god made the world in 6 'days'. But who is to say that 1 day is only 24 hours. Maybe a day was long, long, long, and evolution did manage to happen, because God didn't just poof animals and plants on earth, but slowly formed them. Same with Adam and Eve. All those comments about God 'forcing' Adam and Eve to love each other. Maybe it was just because they fell in love over time and grew to really love each other. And about incest... Maybe you're right, but I've always seen them as separate beings created completely separately. The flaws were just... flaws. What makes us human, in a way, because if we were all prefect, all beautiful like God, we would begin to think we are like God, and, well, can 'be' God,as some people have a false notion of these days.Anyways, those are just my ideas, feel free to agree/disagree.
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Interesting points. Nicely said.
Though I do have to say--If we're not allowed to feel like God, or shouldn't feel like God (because isn't pride a sin? I forgot) then why is God allowed to feel like God? Obviously, he is the God you guys speak of, but why is he the one who gets power over us? Who chose him?
He chose himself. And honestly, that has nothing to do with science.
Well, God is love. And He is Almighty and Omnipresent, forever and ever, infinite, everywhere and nowhere at the same time. we cannot just understand him. That's why Jesus came down, really, so that we could begin to understand and know God as a human and god. but to understand God in His entirety? Nope. He's too great for us to comprend, pretty much.
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Doesn't he have pride at all?
Well, I don't think he has pride, but love. He just loves all his creations, and he's proud of them, but it's not the pride as seen in a vice.
Kaylee wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Well, I don't think he has pride, but love. He just loves all his creations, and he's proud of them, but it's not the pride as seen in a vice."Although I know many, many people ha..."
It's all because of the Fall, and Satan. He tempts us, and inflict the pain on ourselves that way.
As for natural disasters... I have no idea.
@H99: Well, I guess, but they did grow to love each other... And wasn't there some people outside of Eden as well? That's what I always thought.
Maybe. But I've always thought so, cuz Seth and his descendants could always find wives and stuff.
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Although I know many, many people ha..."
I always wonder that too.
Abigail--you said that it was of Satan, right? But can't God help save people or get rid of the pain? The process may be slow, but he still should try, right? For example, a kid with cancer or something--they might pray everyday but still die.
he cannot 'kill' any of his beloved creations, no matter how evil...
Well, if you think about it, dying is the only way to heaven. Would you rather suffer here and get to Heaven, or live a life of pleasure and go to hell?
"Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble." Albert Einstein.Did one of the most respected scientists of all time believe in God? No, although quotes like this one was often used by theists to argue that he did.
There is a vast difference (I think) between religion and believing in something greater than ourselves. Religion is a man-made institution, that derived from a means to describe the indescribable, fear of the unknown and as a means of power to control large numbers of people. This has been true throughout the history of mankind. It is still true today.
Could there not have been evolution, prompted and advanced by a superior race? It is a mystery (still) to science how humans "jumped" so quickly from Neanderthal Man to the human physique and intelligence we know today. A woman in Africa, approximately 200,000 years, called "mitochondrial Eve", may have been the catalyst that led to this phenomenal spurt of advanced evolution. Isn't it possible that a "superior race" mated with "mitochondrial Eve's" mother to produce an advanced genome, and that this was passed along? Although, I mention Eve as a single woman, there were actually many such women that "arrived" at about the same time.
I'm rambling, sorry... My bottom line here is to say that religion is a means of population control - why else all the ritual, why else all the fear induced by the ideas of heaven or hell, why else have Christians, Jews and Muslims killed each other? From the very beginning of religions inception, men of power used belief in an omniscient god to attain and maintain power and wealth.
And Jesus? Maybe Jesus was a descendant of this superior race that has visited our world, from time to time, to "push" us forward along the line of evolution and enlightenment. Maybe Buddha was, as well... or perhaps, Mohammad, Mithras or any number of philosophers and scientists that have led the way in monumental leaps of advancement among the peoples of our world?
It could be, could it not? ;o)
Well, my use of Heaven and Hell were just examples... Mayhaps I should have said it so severely...What I meant was: The 'dying' part and the 'suffering' part is all just part of life. But once we're done with this, we're up in heaven, the ultimate goal of life.
I, as a person, do things according to my personal morals, not b/c I NEED to get to heaven, and will stop at nothing to get there.
No, Liane - I'm saying that the possibility exists that a "super race" from a parallel universe or completely alien world visited our world, and through intercourse or other artificial method, changed the genome of ME's mother. ME was born with an advanced genome that eventually led to the current human body form and function.ME was not the beginning of a super race, rather normal humans that developed to what we are today.
It is also possible, that this same "super race" has sent representatives to our world from time to time to provide knowledge that advances our race.
In some ways, I do agree with Marx that religion is the opiate of the masses. Opiates lull and pacify, leaving those people defenseless and/or less aware or inclined to object to events occurring around them.
Your history teacher wasn't wrong, either. People needed answers for things they couldn't understand. This was the first step. The person that provided the answers became a leader. The leader liked it, wanted more of it... and on it went.
I'm far from being expert in any of this, so I'll agree with you and get off this path... lol.
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With what H99 first said--if you do good things just to get into Heaven, then you're not really a good person, are you?
Abigail--you said that people die and essentially go to Heaven. But there's no guarantee of getting there if you die, if it is indeed real, is there? You may believe you're a good person and pray religiously and such, but you still may be a bad person. A four year old with cancer can be one of the worst people ever, for all we know. I'm glad you do things according to your personal morals, but there are people who only do it because of the goal they have in mind (Heaven). In that case, would the person go to Heaven or Hell (or Purgatory, if you guys believe in that? I'm not sure)?
Liane--on what your history teacher said--that's generally what my whole family believes about religion. Back when I used to think I was Christian I knew I was lying to myself about believing in God, but I kept saying I did because I needed something to hold on to. Now that I don't pray or do any of that, my life has not changed from its previous.
^That is very true. And some people believe that. But ultimately, what I believe is that no matter how many multiverses or parallels there are, God is above, watching us. Waiting for us. No matter how bleak times may seem, or how much suffering is going on, He's there. He loves us. HE doesn't judge. he is a constant in my life. I know many of you will disagree, but in order to have a religion, people must agree to be dissected in their faith, and to be put down from some people (not you guys, but in general). This is what I believe- and sometimes, a faith is a faith. And this faith is MY faith.
H99 - Rambling is a good thing, keeps the brain oiled... ;o).I think, while rambling, that you hit on the bottom line in this discussion - we don't know, what we don't know.
Here's a couple of more "clues" to the theory that there are aliens friendly to, and eager to propagate, human development on this plane of reality:
1. The scientist and author, Carl Sagen, was a huge proponent for alien visitation and his views on science and religion are contained in this quote:
"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual."
2. Recall those periods of history when things really happened, eras when medical, scientific, industrial and societal breakthroughs were common across the boards of all human endeavors... the bronze age, the iron age, the industrial revolution, et al. Could these not have been the results of alien visitation... educating and tutoring our greatest thinkers, scientists and industrialists?
On the other hand, let's not forget the unforgettable period in human history known as the "Dark Ages"... when religion reigned supreme and scientists were called heretics, to be imprisoned or killed.
Abigail: I think it important for everyone's spiritual enlightenment to believe in whatever makes them... um, happy is too small a descriptive, but it'll have to do. If you believe that there's an omniscient being that controls your everyday life... that's great! No one should (or can) deny or denigrate that faith.
At the same time, I think it important that people hold whatever faith they have for themselves and their families. Proselytizing is a curse fomented (initially) by the Catholic Church to expand their influence around the world. The destruction of so called "heathen" societies by these crusades remains one of the most unconscionable acts of the Church.
I agree, too, that religions control people through fear... the fear of the unknown, primarily the fear of death and the fear of "not belonging", of being an outcast among set groups of people.
Talk about rambling... lol. I think I need to work on keeping my posts... uh, shorter!
Well, the Catholic Church may have played a major role in the Dark Ages, and they may have 'destroyed' a lot of other religions and forcibly converted many (my piano teacher told me it might've been because in order to gain status in the world, the people had to be Catholic because all the nobles were, and because of that, nobody even paid heed to the Church's teachings about murder and crime any more, and so the Church became more and more corrupt), but that is not case anymore, at least not in first world countries. People now believe in freedom of speech and everything, and won't be forced to believe. But we don't persecute other faiths anymore. In fact, we are taught to accept and respect what other people believe, whether they are aethiest, buddist, muslim, or hindu. Also, I do consider that sometimes, there are aliens out there. Actually, I'm fairly certain ether are. But to me, there is also a God.And to H99, if one day there do there out to forces other than the god I believe in, if it ever should happen, and they ask me why I chose to believe what I believe, I'd tell them the truth: That is gives me great comfort to know that there is a ever-loving, omnipresent God watching down on me and listening to my prayers.
H99.. agreed with lower IQ's. Surely not due to in-breeding? lol. I've noticed a degree of "dumming down" occurring over the last several years. Not sure I agree with 100 becoming the new "genius" level, though. What's the low number in the range of genius, now? 140?Agree, too... with "omnipresent" versus omniscient and personal. Like Einstein, Sagen and Spinoza I think (not necessarily believe) that there has to be some supreme intelligence out there... somewhere.
Perhaps it's what we sometimes call "Mother Nature". It's all around us, but invisible in the whole. It pervades everything that we call reality, but can't be identified. Hey... does that make me a genius, too? I have an IQ well over 100... lol.
On religions, it is hard NOT to see that both Christianity and Islam have redoubled their evangelistic and conquering efforts. Christianity, through Catholicism, is doing so quietly, nefariously buying up hospitals whose treatment is in accordance with the Catholic belief. If you need/want an abortion, wish to exercise a living will, etc... go somewhere else; and, the Imams are reinvigorating the ages old... do it our way or die methodology.
Abigail - your piano teacher is a bit off regarding the Dark Ages, but... that's a dead horse argument, well beaten. If your beliefs comfort you... great! I'm happy for you.
Lemme just say one thing please. PEOPLE who force the stories of God on other people are not true Christians because God gave us free will. Yeah, we have preachers, missionaries, to tell to those who WANT to learn more of God or who have never heard of Him at all. I think it is unfair to judge a so-called "religion" when a person has no experience and thinks of it in a totally different manner in that of which it actually is.
Shadowhunter Girl - I won't argue with your statement, "PEOPLE who force the stories of God on other people are not true Christians because God gave us free will." Well, except perhaps for the part about God giving out free will; but... no, not even that in this forum.In fact, I would agree that those who follow Jesus' principle teaching points for living a good life, the pursuit of happiness and helping others, are the only true Christians. I don't understand that these people even belong to a church... what's the need?
My primary "target", if you will, is not these Christians, or even those who belong to a protestant church or to the Catholic empire, really. No, my concern is with the organization itself.
The Catholic church began in Rome as a pagan church. If anyone doubts this, how then would they explain that the reigning Roman emperor at that time, Claudius Nero, was history's most enthusiastic and heinous persecutor of people who claimed to be followers of Christ? Where do the gargoyles, demons and skeletons that adorn Catholic cathedrals come from? What about the blood rituals (sacraments)? Do these symbols and ceremonial rites come from Jesus? Nope... not close.
Over the years, Christianity (as a way of life, not an organization such as a church) grew and the Roman Emperors realized that harnessing this potential "power" was much better than killing it off... a plan that had long since lost its viability due to the numbers of Christians.
These same emperors expanded the pagan church of Rome to include Christian philosophies and beliefs. In 325 CE the Emperor Constantine finally brought the East and West churches together when he was able to get the various bishops and priests to come to an agreement. that agreement came to be that Jesus was "as one" with God and therefore God, and established the trinity as the one true belief. From then on... and only from then on... did Catholicism became the reigning Christian church. History, has recorded in detail, the crusading, overpowering might of the Church as it proceeded... by force, to convert entire civilizations even at the cost of destroying those who opposed suppression.
BTW, I'm not positive that your closing comment was addressed only at me, but... just in case... :o).
I have many years of experience within the folds of Christianity. My thoughts about religion are based on that personal experience, historical facts and a very clear world view of what religion is about, and where the various religious cults will lead this world if left unchecked.
Lex wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl - I won't argue with your statement, "PEOPLE who force the stories of God on other people are not true Christians because God gave us free will." Well, except perhaps for the par..."I am not in agreement with the acts of forced religion and as for your comment of church, it isn't a requirement of Christianity, more so as a voluntary gathering to understand God's Word and learn from it. I don't know if that was your actual question, or if I properly answered it, nor do I exactly get how you want people to respond to this. I see your point (I think) but do not agree that it is a big concern for Christians since my definition of Christianity varies from that of those forcing "religion."
I agree with Shadowhunter Girl.Even Christians and Catholics are not FORCED to attend Church/Mass every week. Yes, they are encouraged, but they are not forced to. To be forced to do something religious you don;t want to wouldn't be real, because you do not will it. God gave us free will so we could choose him, and not obligated to do whatever he wanted. Our God is a God if love, and he will not make us do anything we didn't want to.
Following up on the info about the Dark Ages, because the church became more and more corrupt, they were a horrible organization, almost like a cult (so I agree with you there, Lex), but that part about us still 'taking over the world'? Not true, IMHO. You say Catholics are taking our over hospitals, but religious people were the ones that STARTED building hospitals in the first place. We are not taking over. And we do not allow abortion because, well, it is MURDER in our eyes. A life is a life, however small.
Abigail wrote: "I agree with Shadowhunter Girl.Even Christians and Catholics are not FORCED to attend Church/Mass every week. Yes, they are encouraged, but they are not forced to. To be forced to do something re..."
Well, I suppose, Shadowhunter Girl and Abigail... we can agree to disagree on Christianity's expansionist dogma and agree to agree, in general, with the historical evidence of same... ;o).
Truly, I am not anti-"followers of Jesus' teachings" (Christian), quite the opposite. While I am also not a theist, I do subscribe to the possibility of a superior race/being somewhere in the vastness of the universe.
Liane wrote: "Spoilered for giant wall of text. Lex wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl - I won't argue with your statement, "PEOPLE who force the stories of God on other people are not true Christians because God gave..."
Liane wrote: "Spoilered for giant wall of text.
Lex wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl - I won't argue with your statement, "PEOPLE who force the stories of God on other people are not true Christians because God gave..."
Liane wrote: "Spoilered for giant wall of text.
Lex wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl - I won't argue with your statement, "PEOPLE who force the stories of God on other people are not true Christians because God gave..."
Liane - You and I seem to be very much on the same sheet of music... ;o). Thanks for the link in second message. Especially interesting for me as I've used a couple of these theories in my Imagine trilogy; primarily the multiverse theory, but also several quantum physics concepts that "prove" (fictionally, of course) that Jesus was actually one of those superior beings from a parallel universe that I've been harping about... lol.
PS: Abigail and Shadowhunter Girl would probably not like my handling of the Catholic Church (in the beginning, at least), but I think they'd both like my Jesus quite a lot... ;o)
We cannot generalize here, I mean, there are religious folks who could be scientists and then that means they approve of science and religion.Nevertheless, it is safe to say that close-minded religious people could be those who would never accept science.
Liane wrote: "Abigail wrote: "I agree with Shadowhunter Girl.Even Christians and Catholics are not FORCED to attend Church/Mass every week. Yes, they are encouraged, but they are not forced to. To be forced to..."
The Church doesn't judge based on previous actions, because we are taught God loves us all, no matter what we did (good or bad). Well, if they were in trouble and at the Church's door, the Church will provide sanctuary, even if the woman has had an abortion.
Abigail wrote: "Well, if they were in trouble and at the Church's door, the Church will provide sanctuary, even if the woman has had an abortion." Unfortunately, not if the church the poor woman was beating on was Catholic. Firstly, she'd be beating on the door because they lock the doors after business hours. Secondly, the Catholic Church is Christian in name only. It is not, in design, dogma or catechism, a Christian organization..
Agree totally, that if that woman were at the door of a true Christian... she'd get whatever help she needed and then some.
Liane wrote: "@Lex It would seem so :) It's always nice to meet a like-minded person.@H99 & Lex
I'm curious what you guys think of the multiverse theory, as well as the accompanying theory that, in a universe..."
I've put a few thousand words down in stories about multiverses, paranormal abilities derived from and supported by quantum physics and alternative realities. Still... I'm no real expert. I practice artistic license in the extreme... lol.
Mostly, I see the multiverse theories more in tune with parallel universes that are independent in development and reality. In other words, not necessarily the same characters acting out different roles in separate realities.
Rather than wormholes, how about a form of mental visualization aided by the energy of planetary vortexes that allow for "quantum leaping" from one reality (universe) to another? While present on a particular planet, the leaper requires only his mental energy to quantum leap from one place to another. "Quantum leaping" is simply a fancier term for teleporting, without machines, by disassembling a physical form at the quark level, and reassembling in a new, desired location.
The "fictional realism" (love that) of a world whereby you run around with your underwear on the outside is hilarious... but a bit kinky, dream-wise, don't you think? lol.
Almira wrote: "We cannot generalize here, I mean, there are religious folks who could be scientists and then that means they approve of science and religion.Nevertheless, it is safe to say that close-minded rel..."
Greetings Almira - I think it entirely possible to be a religiously minded scientist; it depends upon what the "religion" foundations are. They couldn't be Christian, as they believe that an omniscient God created all things, dated about 1/10th of the time that scientists have proven physical matter, on Earth, has existed.
They couldn't be Jewish, because according the Torah, God created the world and all things about 5,000 years ago (actually, taken up by the Christians, too).
These religious scientists could also not believe in Islam's Allah, because Mohammad simply took Christianity and re-wrote the game plan according to the specific morals and ethics of his Arabian heritage.
They could be Pantheists, perhaps; those that believe in the oneness of all things and have no single entity to worship. Or, these scientists could be any number of pagan-like religious that worship the individual phenomena of the universe - the stars, the sun, the earth, moon, water, et al...
What do you think? ;o)
Liane wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Liane wrote: "Abigail wrote: "I agree with Shadowhunter Girl.Even Christians and Catholics are not FORCED to attend Church/Mass every week. Yes, they are encouraged, but they are ..."
Horrible, Liane... but true in many countries of this world. You're right... sad subject... let's change it since we can't do much about changing the reality of religiously oriented bias... here.
Liane wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Liane wrote: "Abigail wrote: "I agree with Shadowhunter Girl.Even Christians and Catholics are not FORCED to attend Church/Mass every week. Yes, they are encouraged, but they are ..."
I guess nowadays, people just 'do thing in the name of God' for money. Of everybody religious were ACTUALLY religious, these problems would not be coming up, will they. I'm think it also goes back to how a person was taught to treat their religion and how to use it. Religion is not a weapon. it's a belief, usually something that brings comfort to people. It should not be used to antagonize others.
That was just my thinking moment.
But @Lex... What do you mean Catholics are not 'true Christians'?
Lo♪ wrote: "Kaylee wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Well, I don't think he has pride, but love. He just loves all his creations, and he's proud of them, but it's not the pride as seen in a vice."
Although I know many,..."
Okay about God trying, I think he does... I'm just saying... because OKAY. Story time. Btw I trust this person and she was NOT religious at all but now she is.
Okay. So a young women was driving in her car. I can't exactly remember what happened because it happened a few years ago, but I think she was ran into something or... had to pull over for something. Anyways, There was something very wrong with her car. It was seriously going to explode and blow up. But this lady dressed completely in black, on a motor cycle came up to her and told her to run, now, cuz her car was going to blow up! She did, In just the nick of time. She would've died. She would've died. And you think that person just happened to know what was happening inside her car? No.
But you don't have to believe it but I swear I'm not making this up... it happened. I know this Girl.
Although I know many,..."
Okay about God trying, I think he does... I'm just saying... because OKAY. Story time. Btw I trust this person and she was NOT religious at all but now she is.
Okay. So a young women was driving in her car. I can't exactly remember what happened because it happened a few years ago, but I think she was ran into something or... had to pull over for something. Anyways, There was something very wrong with her car. It was seriously going to explode and blow up. But this lady dressed completely in black, on a motor cycle came up to her and told her to run, now, cuz her car was going to blow up! She did, In just the nick of time. She would've died. She would've died. And you think that person just happened to know what was happening inside her car? No.
But you don't have to believe it but I swear I'm not making this up... it happened. I know this Girl.
Liane wrote: "That question may not be directed at me, but I'll answer it anyway, because why not? I don't believe in doing things just so I'll go to Heaven. I don't believe in suffering for the sake of good to ..."
Can I just say that the Christian religion believe in actually helping people, because we should and want to? It's our choice and every time I help Someone it's no cuz I know I'll get to go to heaven because of it. :-)
Can I just say that the Christian religion believe in actually helping people, because we should and want to? It's our choice and every time I help Someone it's no cuz I know I'll get to go to heaven because of it. :-)
Liane wrote: "Spoilered for giant wall of text.
Lex wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl - I won't argue with your statement, "PEOPLE who force the stories of God on other people are not true Christians because God gave..."
Thats horrible Liane, for what they did to you guys.... but those people weren't TRUE Christians. Like would you say that every Muslim must be a terrorist? No, Of course not. But here are people who twist the religion and then use it as an excuse to get what they want.
Lex wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl - I won't argue with your statement, "PEOPLE who force the stories of God on other people are not true Christians because God gave..."
Thats horrible Liane, for what they did to you guys.... but those people weren't TRUE Christians. Like would you say that every Muslim must be a terrorist? No, Of course not. But here are people who twist the religion and then use it as an excuse to get what they want.
A friend of mine went on and on about how just because 10 Muslims did something bad, every single Muslim is considered evil. That is so wrong, it worse than judging a book by its cover. It'd judging a book by the state of the bookshop it's in.A lot of people who say they're part of that particular religion aren't. They're just saying that so people will actually listen to them. As Christians/Catholics, we're supposed to help ALL that ask for it, whether you are a horrible person or not. It's not our place to judge. We're all bad people. We've all done bad things. So who are we to say who deserves helping or not?
Remember the story of the Good Samaritan? That's who I want to be like. It's not easy, but I tried. Oh gosh, I really do try.
So many comments that I'd like to respond to, but so little time... lol.Religion: We keep using the term religion and religious. There are several derivative definitions - a set of beliefs observed by a group of people, for example; but, the one that really means something in the context of our discussion here is:
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
This is the butt kicker!
Neither Buddha, Mohammad, Jesus, nor the fabled omniscient God established any set rules or rituals. You'll never find anything written by God... only what somebody said that God said. You'll never find anything written by Buddha, Mohammad or Jesus that establishes a set of rituals or specific guidelines for any belief (religious) practice or ritual. They are ALL man-made - except for... prayer.
The Ten Commandments, you say? Nope... definitely thought up and written by man. The Golden Rule - nope. It's a part of every single religion, sect, cult, belief since ancient Egypt. It was found on a papyrus dated back to 664 BC and Confucius is likely the first, well-known philosopher to use it extensively. It didn't originate from God through Abraham, Moses or Jesus.
Prayer is also universal. Buddha calls it meditation and it's practiced in a wide variety of belief systems. It also did not originate from God or Jesus. Mohammad didn't initiate prayer in his writings. Prayer has been scientifically proven to work on a physical level; but, not because God is listening and answering. I'm a walking testament that that is not the case... lol.
NO... ALL rituals, prayers, dogmas and beliefs were written, indoctrinated and enforced by men... not women, not "mankind"... MEN who found it a necessary tool to control the thoughts and actions of a group of people. Simply that. Who were these people? How about some "recent" examples: Jim Jones, Joseph Smith, Charles Manson, Hitler (no, he didn't establish a religion, but he used the same principles. Did you know that he actually claimed to be doing the Lord's work by eliminating the Jews, and that's how he got the Catholic Church to "look the other way"?)
Why do Christians... true Christians, those that follow the teaching of Jesus need to be a part of an organization? Jesus taught that each individual holds the keys to his immortality through the spirit. Do you really need a preacher or priest telling you what to do. Confession, anyone? Do you, as a Christian, need or really want an organization telling you that homosexuality is a sin, that divorced people can't get to heaven, that sex is for procreation ONLY, ergo... no condoms to stop the spread of disease, do you?
Getting long again... sorry. One more point for Abigail. You asked me "what do you mean Catholics are not true Christians?"
What is now the Catholic Church began as the Church of Rome around 63 AD under the reign of the Roman Emperor Nero. The Bible and other Catholic documents will tell you that Christianity arrived in Rome around 41 AD via Paul to Agrippina and that could be true.
But... the Church wasn't started until a fellow named Simon Magus arrived in town. Simon was a Samaritan pagan priest and magician. Many thought him to be a god. I'll make this short... ;o).
Simon wanted to be an apostle of Jesus.
Phillip actually baptized him, but Paul, Peter and James threw him out of the group when he tried to pay Paul for the title Apostle.
Simon was pee-ohed about that and went to Rome ahead of any of the other disciples. He met Nero and using a combination of his pagan beliefs (the belief in a variety of gods, complete with blood rituals) and a small smattering of Christian beliefs (which Nero had never heard of, anyway); he established the Church of Rome that later... much later became the Roman Catholic Church, professing Christianity. Nero, by the way, was the Roman emperor infamous for his persecution of Christians... feeding the lions in the Colosseum, you know? Ya think he'd agree to a Christian Church in Rome... the "State" Church? Not likely.
So... when, finally, an emperor came along that was eager to embrace Christianity (there being hundreds of thousands of faithful followers, just waiting for a leader), the Church switched to being Christian. Why, then, didn't the Church leaders get rid of the blood rituals, idol worship, gargoyles and demon statuary? Because these things are what tie people together.
Holy Moly - My apologies for this really long-winded comment. But, I worked on it for so long, I can't bear to delete it... lol
H99 wrote: "Lex wrote: "So many comments that I'd like to respond to, but so little time... lol.Religion: We keep using the term religion and religious. There are several derivative definitions - a set of ..."
I agree. But some people PREFER praying in those areas, because they feel closer to God, or Allah, or whoever they believe is listening in those buildings.
And Lex, I see what you mean, and I know you don't mean it that way, but it sounds like you're hating on the Catholic Church... (Do not take offence at this. Please. I get in trouble a lot from not curbing my tongue, even if this is only a virtual tongue. Please don't be angry...)
Ive noticed there is some confusion.. I hate when peoplr do this thiugh, so ill clear it out. There is a DIFFERENCE between being a Christian and being a Catholic. Its an important difference. People that have a bad history with the Catholic Church think that Christians are the same thing. This actually saddens me. Im a Christian. Being a Christian doesn't mean your religious. Its a way of life. Science is real. God is real.They work together half the time. Other times though, science tries to cover the truth. But what we dont understand is that it is all the same. God created the world.science will say it was The Big Bang. Any questions, and Ill do my best to answer them. I hate to see everyone so lost with all this stuff...
Oh and sorry about spelling, im on my phone...
Where did ..."
That was not the reason. God created Eve to give Adam a PARTNER.