To Swear, Or Not To F***ing Swear?

[Kelly]

Maggie Stiefvater, I forgot her last name. Wrote the Shiver series and Raven among many other good ones.

[Kelly]

Phillip wrote: "I'm not opposed to using curse words in writing, especially if the term is to illustrate a character's crudeness or general level of anxiety. I do think that an over use of cursing however can put ..."

My sentiments exactly

[John]

Simon:

Re: your excerpt:

A mini-review for you - I loved it!!!

[Steelwhisper]

Excessive swearing and vulgarity: I'll probably DNF the book, one-star it and never buy again from that author. I hate vulgar language with a passion. I would indeed appreciate authors tagging their works for vulgar language, so I can avoid.

I can tolerate an f-bomb or two every other chapter. Where "the cause is sufficient" so to speak. That includes a few (very few) other similar terms. But more than that and the author loses me as a reader.

Why? It's got nothing to do with morals, or religion or whatnot. To me such an amount of swearing means I'm reading about people too dumb and uneducated to get themselves some manners, or too uncouth to be civil to others. While occasionally such a character might, for a short time, be amusing, I really do not want to spend my off-time in skid row.

[Steelwhisper]

Simon wrote: "It's interesting what people have been saying. I do agree that gratuitous swearing would be off-putting, but I feel in this particular book it is important for the character. Part of the story is a..."

As to the sample. That all sounds rather stilted to me. Sorry. The cursing doesn't help either.

[Simon]

John wrote: "Simon:

Re: your excerpt:

A mini-review for you - I loved it!!!"

Thank you!

[Blaze]

As a reader i have closed numerous books that contained excessive swearing. Even stop from picking up books written by such authors, no matter how famous they are. Even a compelling story or plot cannot force me to read on and ignore those words in a book like that. It grates on my nerves. There are many writers who subtly and accomplisly can convey how deprave and villainous their certain charecter is.

[Robin]

This is exactly what I am getting at:

Kevan wrote: "Scenes with the blackest cutthroats can be written without a single cuss word. A great writer does not NEED to use cuss words. I have seldom come across beautiful prose that harbors profanities. However, I have come across otherwise good prose that has been diluted by swearing and the F word.

And lastly, I know of many people who would stop reading a book due to "dirty language". I don't know of any who would put down a book because it has no swearing."


Kaine wrote: "I think the real key is that, if you're avoiding cursing - whatever your reasons may be - to make it flow. The same if you're using it. Honestly, if you can write it (either way) so it flows and isn't noticeable - Ted Dekker does a good job of this; it only occurred to me when I dug up the Kindle copy of Thr3e and did a word search that they hadn't really done any cursing - it's fine."


Blaze wrote: " There are many writers who subtly and accomplisly can convey how deprave and villainous their certain charecter is."

I truly do not believe that staying "true to your character" requires offensive dialogue (or scenes, for that matter). The ability to portray rough or detestable characters without dragging the reader into the gutter does, as someone else pointed out, lift a writer's work from mediocre to exceptional.

That said, I have often thought that book ratings similar to the MPAA would be awfully helpful to readers. Amazon's preview is a fantastic way to see if the book will actually interest you, and generally (but not always) that sample is a good barometer of what the rest of the book will be like. It seems logical to me to make use of it.

In the end, it all boils down to what kind of audience you really want to attract, and how limited you want it to be.

[Erica]

I personally don't agree that you can always stay true to a particular character while avoiding strong language. Always making them 'curse under their breath' would end up just as jarring as actually making them swear. I have on one occasion made one of my characters 'curse colourfully', but that's because I personally couldn't think up a string of curse-words that would convey the same thing.

I have (quite deliberately) used the f-word within the first two pages of my novel, to describe the act itself. Why? Because a) my main character simply would not use 'making love' to describe that act, and it's written in her first person PoV, and b) because that way people will know very early on that my book contains such language. They can then choose not to read on because of it.

[Steelwhisper]

One single instance or even a dozen swearwords thrown into a book of 250 pages are nothing I'd mind.

But I recently read a book which had averagely 10-15 f-bombs or similar swearwords per page. It added up to nearly 4,000 (swear)words in the whole book, which means a whopping 16 pages with nothing but swearwords. I mean, sure, you can up your word-count that way, right?

I felt the need to make a grab for brain bleach afterwards. I never came to like any of these characters, and a major reason was their cheap language.

[Simon]

Erica wrote: "I personally don't agree that you can always stay true to a particular character while avoiding strong language. Always making them 'curse under their breath' would end up just as jarring as actual..."

Thank you Erica! Yes, I can't imagine a biker wearing long-sleeve tattoos, getting all demure and cursing under his breath. They don't give a F@#% and let it out. Be true to a character or write about fluffy pussycats instead.

[Cypher]

I've read all but the most recent Black Dagger Brotherhood books and, if you are not familiar, they are paranormal romance. The Brotherhood is a group of really rugged men who curse quite a bit. I think that if the author had toned down the language, it just wouldn't seem as realistic to me. Of course, that's just my opinion, but I also grew up reading Stephen King.

[Steelwhisper]

Cypher wrote: "I've read all but the most recent Black Dagger Brotherhood books and, if you are not familiar, they are paranormal romance. The Brotherhood is a group of really rugged men who curse quite a bit. I..."

Never read those, was told to read them, but given this I'll rather put them completely aside.

Why should "rugged men" be per se vulgar? That's one I do not get.

[Robin]

I read an article recently that pointed out how profanity is much more prevalent among indie authors because they don't have anyone to monitor/edit them. Someone else (several someones, in fact) had hysterics because many reviewers on Amazon complain that a book has swearing in it. (Not "too much," mind, but swearing. Period.) Proof abounds that an author can 1) write about rugged/immoral/ignorant characters without resorting to offensive language, and 2) the general public prefers non-offensive language. So the question remains: Do you want your books to appeal to a wider audience, or do you want to try to convince that audience that they are wrong?

[Sara]

Robin wrote: "This is exactly what I am getting at:

Kevan wrote: "Scenes with the blackest cutthroats can be written without a single cuss word. A great writer does not NEED to use cuss words. I have seldom com..."

I personally struggle with this because most of my books are described (and appreciated) by readers as "clean reads". I try to reach across a really broad base of potential readers with an Old Hollywood style. Think "North by Northwest". We know Cary Grant and Eva St. Marie were unmarried and boinking in that upper berth on the train. I get inventive with some terms. My mother's favorite expression was "Up your presidulator!"

In real life, I've been known to make sailors blush with my salty language. Most men I know don't really like women to swear, even if they have fifty different euphemisms for "doin' it". I have learned the hard way to self-edit (little pitchers and big ears -- "You said a bad word!")

Sometimes there is a character who just has to be who and what he or she is, language warts and all. Or there's a situation where things are so tense, the characters just blurt things out. It's really all about making the story come to life, isn't it? Hard to believe a bad guy is really all that tough if he's too courtly or kind....I harken back to the days when I was reading "The Three Muskateers" in the original French, trying to brush up on my rusty language skills. When I first realized how bawdy those guys were, I was absolutely floored. And yet, they were the early role models for many "boy groups", like the Top Gear gang, weren't they?

[Steelwhisper]

Sara wrote: ""The Three Muskateers" in the original French, trying to brush up on my rusty language skills. When I first realized how bawdy those guys were, I was absolutely floored. ..."

Oh, but they never used any of the heavier French swearwords. That was all very mild, not one equivalent of the f-bomb in there.

Personally I don't care about "Christian Right style clean", it's the unnecessary aggravation and illiteracy of characters and unfortunately also often clearly the authors. I read a lot of erotica and erotic romances, and as someone who finds "dirty language" patently and thoroughly unerotic some of this is hard to go through. Most of these books turn me off rather than on.

As to villains, I am firmly with Robin. Plus I commonly find an intelligent and even cultured villain far more horrific and frightening than some illiterate brute hooligan off skid row.

[Robert]

J.B. wrote: "Simon wrote: "I can't imagine a biker wearing long-sleeve tattoos, getting all demure and cursing under his breath. They don't give a F@#% and let it out. Be true to a character or write about fluf..."
Well said my man. Well said. If they don't like the way we write our stories. Then F-em!

[Leonie]

I think there's a fine line. I've (tried) to read books that swear every second word, and they're definitely not my cup of tea, but obviously other people have liked them. To some extent it comes down to personal taste.

I read The Casual Vacancy not long after it was first published, and the thing that struck me nearly more than anything else, was the repeated use of the f-bomb. (And the 100% of unlikeable characters). Now, I'm not naive - I've lived and worked in remote Western Australia and have now spent over twenty-five years in mining towns. There are some people who "f this and f that" all the time - but they aren't in the majority by any means, not even in those environments. When every character swears constantly (and only uses the f-bomb), I wonder how much the author really knows about the people he or she is writing about. The other issue I have is when the swearing is there simply for shock value.

I don't have a problem with a character who swears in context at all, and there are probably books where lots of the characters may swear in context, but constantly? Boring, honestly. (And just for the record, I do know a number of non-swearing, heavily tattooed bikers - they do actually exist! And a number of them have surprising interests and backgrounds.)

[Cypher]

J.B. wrote: As an indie writer (accountable to no one, presumably - LOL!) I'd rather have one reader enjoy my good, honest work than a hundred read a mediocre fraud.

I couldn't agree more. While I don't use cursing a lot, I use it to convey the same thoughts that I would have in that situation. In many cases, if the situation is bad enough, I would probably curse a blue streak and I actually tame it down just a bit. But if someone reads my books who doesn't like cursing, well, so be it. I am not writing for the masses because I write what I feel. Most of my work can't even been classified in a particular genre. That turns some people away right off the bat.

As far as my reference to BDB, well...that particular group of men have a lot of issues. They don't all curse excessively, but they do have their moments. I suppose it all depends on what your perspective is on how a certain type of person would act. I expected it, so I wasn't offended.

[Shaun]

I write realistically. People can claim they never swear, but 70% of them are still more likely to say "Oh Shit" over "Oh Suger" if they're home alone and happen to burn their dinner or stub their toe on a corner in a dark hallway.

Still, some writers use swearing just for shock value and that's wrong too. Good writing is done by staying true to the characters and the situation. (genre taking precedence, I could imagine a Fantasy or Sci-Fi book using their own odious phrases in place of conventional swearing after all.) If it makes perfect sense that a certain character is prone to swearing and a scene is particularly emotional, angering, or surprising to them; I think it would be a disservice to the book to have the character NOT swear.

[Cypher]

Shaun wrote: "I could imagine a Fantasy or Sci-Fi book using their own odious phrases in place of conventional swearing after all."

That's a good point. The newer Sci-Fi television shows have been a great example of that. Farscape,the new Battlestar Galactica, and in Firefly they used Chinese (I believe) to curse. It's still cursing, but it's thinly veiled so that it passes FCC regulations. No one complains about it because it's not the conventional cursing we hear in everyday life, so it's almost like people don't consider it to even be cursing.

Oddly enough, as I was typing this, a co-worker actually said, "Ah...sugar." Creepy. I have another co-worker who is the opposite. Every other word out of his mouth is the f-word. He has managed to use it as a noun, adjective, adverb, and verb.

[J.T.]

Tim Minchin recently said on Twitter that words to a writer are like colours to an artist: you should use all the colours on your palette even if you don't like them.
I used the C-word, despite loathing the word, in a story I wrote last year, because it was in character. That said, I'm nervous of submitting that story anywhere because the word is in the second sentence (it was written for, and about, some of my friends). It kind of has to be there, but I'm conscious of how crass it seems.

[Blaze]

I think no one here is saying that you don't use swearing at all. Or use ridiculous words lIke the 'sugar' or some such - Please don't even make them say it under their breath. Let it come out as you wish, whenever and however you wish, make them scream it at the top of their lungs.
But Remain true to your characters by using those words sparingly. That way even we who don't like swearing can digest it perfectly. And that way you get readership of both who prefer swearing and those who are tolerant. But having dirty words on every single page of one's book doesn't say much good about the writer's skill. And you gain only those followers who like that kind of literary work. But, yes if you are just looking for creative satisfaction in writing it, then you got it.
BUT IF you along with that satisfaction want a wider readership then you have to take care your work is suited for all. And that is also where lies the true test of you as a story teller.

[Steelwhisper]

J.T. wrote: "Tim Minchin recently said on Twitter that words to a writer are like colours to an artist: you should use all the colours on your palette even if you don't like them.
I used the C-word, despite lo..."

I'm afraid this analogy is faulty (artist here!): you can paint the whole range using an extremely constrained palette of colours, and quite a few very famous painters worked that way. If you want to apply this analogy it would mean that a good writer can create the needed/wanted impression of a character without resorting to vulgarities.

[William]

Interesting topic. Given that my books are MG/YA fantasy adventures, I purposely did not use profanity. However, there were circumstances that could have warranted its use. In those cases, I simply had the character cursing without using the words (i.e., the character kicked an opponent all while cursing loudly). I think I got the point across without having to actually use profanity.

When I read, though, I prefer not to have excessive profanity. As a former submarine sailor, I have used it, heard it, and still hear it today (but rarely, if ever, use it myself anymore), but don't really care for it in the books I read. I think, in many cases, it is a crutch for authors who cannot figure out a better way of saying things. Sometimes, though, the f-bomb works and is perfectly suited to the dialogue!

[Simon]

I have to say, I am genuinely shocked by the responses. I feel like I'm going to burn in hell due to my less than virginal white language palette. I certainly shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard to express myself. I should have my work censored and the police should come and throw me in jail, if not just shoot me for being a subversive element in society.
I live in Spain, and this is the sort of thing that happened in the Franco era. Up until forty years ago, movies were censored for kissing between non-married people. Yet Franco was a good, church-going, non-swearing, all-round fine upstanding citizen.
One of Spain's greatest poets, Federico García Lorca, was killed in 1936 by the regime, not only for being an outspoken writer, but also gay.
Let us be thankful for freedom of expression. With the advent of websites like Amazon that allow indie authors to self-publish, we have been given the luxury of virtually unlimited scope to write exactly what we want.
If you don't like swearing, I don't expect you to like my writing nor buy my book and I'm perfectly okay with that. I don't criticise others' choice of material or style for their books. It just so happens for my book, Loosely Translated, swearing is not only integral to the character but to the plot as well, (showing how Mike has to learn that using more cultured language and writing from the heart doesn't make him any less a man). And strangely, most of my writing doesn't have swearing at all.
I could also suggest that writing about sex is just as bad. It can only be used for shock value, because why else do we need to know about the grotty details? In a similar line to Steelwhisper, a good writer can create the needed/wanted impression of passion without resorting to describing a physical action, when the characters' emotions should be what is important for the story. But I won't stop anyone from writing that if they so choose - I respect their freedom.
Finally, a quote from García Lorca himself:
"The theatre is a school of weeping and of laughter, a free forum, where men can question norms that are outmoded or mistaken and explain with living example the eternal norms of the human heart."

[Blaze]

Yay, yes for freedom of choice. We all respect that. But, i think comparing sex to swearing is a bit off. Swearing has nothing good to back it, while sex has both good and bad sides. After all, it's the bases after love on which the world revolves.
Beside that , you are your own to decide what you write. And the readers have their own. Goodluck.
I suppose it is an incessant debate that we all have to judge with our own measure.

[Steelwhisper]

Going off in a pet because others don't share your opinion isn't really coming over as very adult. Nor is first asking about the opinion of others, and then exploding all over them when theirs is different from yours.

Let's recap:

What are your thoughts on swearing?

You asked. You got answers. Very simple.

I've written a book that seems to have divided readers, some of whom discount the book purely on the basis of the bad language.

This appeared to astonish you. Again, people here, myself included, explained why you may have received such reactions. Take it or leave it, it's YOUR book. But then don't complain if a lot of people complain or won't buy.

The romantic hero is not a knight in shining armour - he's an uncultured, drinking, skirt-chasing, 35yo, bad lad, who isn't likely to say, "Oh, bother!" or "Sugar!" No, he says the f word, (and that's not facebook, even though at times it does annoy me). Maria, the main character, is a nice, refined, interesting, intelligent girl who doesn't say any naughty words,

This could have been a nice enough premise if you had gender-reversed My Fair Lady into My Fair Biker. Or something. I haven't read the book, so I can't say anything detailed, but from the negative reactions you got it is obvious that you didn't do that. I'd have found it rather interesting, a bit like the movie Stanley & Iris. The first and foremost condition for that would be to have the hero accept that he has a problem with his verbiage and not have him wallow in it.

so I wanted Mike to be a strong contrast, otherwise there's not as much tension.

Tension can be created in many ways.

And let's face it, a 35yo guy who doesn't swear might be a good friend to invite to a tupperware party 'cos he's got a great recipe for fondue, but as a love interest? Or maybe I'm just an ignorant, badly brought-up Aussie.

I prefer friends and boyfriends who do not swear, because usually that (not swearing) is linked to a modicum of intelligence and the will to acquire sophistication, literacy and manners. I'd at least expect people to show respect, and swearing doesn't. So no, I'd really not fall for a man swearing without cease and pause.

50 Shades of Grey is supposedly full of BDSM, so I would have thought people would be prepared for the f word.

I dislike the books, but I read them, and contrary to your assumption there is a rather low page:f-bomb ratio.

I personally find more offensive the linking of violence with sex, particularly as it is the woman who is demeaned. I don't think it is adventurous or liberating.

Well, as a BDSMer I suggest you learn more about things before you condemn them. That sentence is offensive.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Again--you asked. Now you don't like the answers. No one can help you there. Several people have made it clear: either please yourself and do with less readers, or adapt and rewrite so the swearing gets less and more acceptable. It's absolutely your own choice and no one is censoring you!

[Troy]

A lot of it depends on the setting for me.

But any book where every-other-sentence is an f-bomb? Nah. I doubt very many people could read through that without being turned off.

Books that substitute words for curse words is more creative, in my opinion. I mean heck, my 4 year old watches a kid show called "Jake and the Neverland Pirates" where one of them says 'BARNACLES!' when he's mad. You and I know there would be an s-word or f-word dropped there, but it's a kid show. The kids don't really know any better, but us adults do.

Books that use other words for it seem more interesting to me. But I'm not opposed to it at all. Just not gratuitous. Kind of like violence and sex (unless you're reading 50 Shades of Gray, right?).

[Simon]

Ok, what I was getting worked up about was for reviewers to be constructive in their criticism. Here's an example: Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie is a Nigerian woman who wrote an incredible book, Purple Hibiscus. She's won all sorts of awards and nominations. And yet someone trashed her book with a two-star rating because they were upset by the violence. It's the story of a young girl coping with an abusive father - the violence isn't gratuitous, so I don't understand how people can destroy a book based on personal sensibilities.

[Angelo]

I think that the amount of swearing will depend upon the characters and the context they're in within any given chapter. Put it this way, a book about gang members is going to feel ridiculous to the reader if the worst 'expletive' anybody uses is "fiddlesticks" or "shut the front door".

So I think it's about truthfully representing the characters and being true to the story. A blanket rule about swearing won’t work any more than a blanket rule about violence in my opinion. The amount really does depend on the story.

I think it is all very subjective, and that too much swearing for one person could well be considered too little for another. Personally, I feel as though as long as I can stand by my own work and say that I was being true to the story, then I could weather any criticism I got for the end result.

Conversely, if I compromised or amped up the swearing in spite of what I genuinely felt was appropriate for the story because I felt that’s what readers wanted, then I don’t think I’d be happy with the finished novel anyway.

[Wade]

Swear-ho!

[Rebecca]

I stand by your right to write your book however you want. I also stand by the idea that dialog need not and actually should not be written just the way people actually talk. Sound shocking? Take a good listen to the folks around you. You would not put that many "like" "You know" and "so she was all, you know, and he went. . . " into a story. It would be unreadable. The art is in conveying the character's profane nature (or vapid Valley-girlness) without boring your reader to tears by actually writing every inane or profane thing he/she says.

[Alex]

Erica wrote: "I personally don't agree that you can always stay true to a particular character while avoiding strong language. Always making them 'curse under their breath' would end up just as jarring as actual..."

Well said, Erica.

I myself do not curse too often, but some of the fictional characters I have created do. And when these characters speak to other characters, I have found that the best way to convey their words and phrases is to quote them directly (even if they are saying things that aren't nice).

As a reader, I do not like to read things that are unnecessarily vulgar or profane. If profanity seems out of place, I find it jarring. But I also understand that these unpleasant words and descriptions have their place.

[A.J.]

Angelo wrote: "I think that the amount of swearing will depend upon the characters and the context they're in within any given chapter. Put it this way, a book about gang members is going to feel ridiculous to t..."

I agree with Angelo, 'the context they're in within any given chapter'
The first half of my current WIP is set in Sydney's Kings Cross and some of the characters I knew well enough to know intimately how they speak/spoke. Profanity is an inherent part of the language, and I feel more comfortable portraying them as realistically as I can.

In the beginning of the book, the female protag swears enough to make me blush, and I lived in Queensland for fifteen years. However, as her character develops and changes, so does her language. None of it is for shock value. It is how these people speak.

Simon: thanks for starting such a lively thread...

"Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
(Cyril Connolly)

[Justin]

Im probably going to write a blog about this topic on my website, so intriguing

[Simon]

Alan wrote: "Angelo wrote: "I think that the amount of swearing will depend upon the characters and the context they're in within any given chapter. Put it this way, a book about gang members is going to feel ..."

Hi Alan, being an Aussie, yes, I've been to King's Cross in Sydney. The first time was on a Tuesday at 11 am and I thought it would be a nice place to take the family. But later, on a Saturday night at 4 in the morning, it was pretty wild! And I don't remember hearing people say "sugar!" or "fiddlesticks!" People would know what they're in for, going to the Cross, so if they don't like that scene, don't go there.

[Paul]

As far as I remember, in the last four books I've written, swearing has occurred just twice, and one of those was pretty mild. Perhaps it's because I don't really swear in real life? On both occasions I used swear words in dialogue because one or more characters got pretty heated during an argument.

I would feel uncomfortable writing a character who swore more than occasionally and I'm not sure I could justify it anyway. I've never felt the need to include swearing to make something more "realistic".

[Alan]

Hi guys, sorry I am late to this discussion. As mentioned in previous comment by Simon, by book was called Bloody Hell, What's an Alpaca? Now in England bloody hell is pretty mild, but I could not get accepted by itunes, and some promo sites, and we could not fathom why. Also, sales in the US were very slow. Then, by chance I saw on a forum about people in the States not liking the word 'hell' and it clicked. So we had to come up with an alternative name. So now the ebook is Seriously Mum, Whats an Alpaca? and the paperback is still Bloody Hell. Some people like the original, some people like the new title. For my part I really liked the original title :)

[Michelle]

I prefer the original title, that's a shame. Like you say, in England that's a mild everyday comment.

[A.J.]

Apparently both Canada and the US complained about the tagline of this campaign. Obviously some people didn't get it.
Australia tourism: Where the bloody hell are you?

[Clive]

If swearing is littered throughout a book then the book quickly loses its impact. To me swearing is there to make an impact, so therefore when it is used, it should be used sparingly.

It's a bit like meeting someone who swears all the time, after a while you get fed up of it, you then tend to edge your way clear and go and talk to someone else. The trouble is you will then probably avoid the swearer like the plague. The same with books.

[Robin]

Simon wrote: "Ok, what I was getting worked up about was for reviewers to be constructive in their criticism."

Oh, so this discussion isn't actually about swearing at all, but about reviewers? Somehow I did not connect either the title nor any of your posts in this thread to the subject of reviewing...

If we're talking about reviewing, we're all STILL subject to the gut reactions of readers and, on top of that, their celebrated freedom to express their opinions. Moreover, it is important to realize that nearly all of those posts labeled as "reviews" are going to be opinions and not formal assessments or appraisals of the work. There's a difference, but either can be helpful for a writer trying to pinpoint things that don't work well. Or rather, things that don't work well for the those who took the time to respond." One bad review does not a disaster make. Over and over again we are advised writers must develop thick skins—not everyone is always going to like everything we write! If there are a substantial number of reviews condemning the same issue, then a wise author might want to take another look at what he/she wrote.

And again, our reactions to those reviews are important in the context of why we are writing. If we're writing for ourselves (which makes me wonder why anyone would bother putting their work in public at all, but whatever!), then who cares about public opinion? If we're writing for ourselves, but publish in the hopes that someone else might enjoy our work, a certain amount of grayness enters the situation. Public opinion affects readership. Period. If we're writing for fame or fortune, then the game changes even further.

Steelwhisper wrote: "Several people have made it clear: either please yourself and do with less readers, or adapt and rewrite so the swearing gets less and more acceptable. It's absolutely your own choice and no one is censoring you!"

It all boils down to the results you are trying to achieve, and an author's outrage over what someone says about their book will do nothing to sway public opinion—except, perhaps, to get themselves (and thus their works) negatively labeled.

[Justin]

*throws two cents back into discussion.

I see it like this which I am sure has already been said but here it is anyways, there are some cases where swearing is totally fine which is when it's used to show regular conversation and to add anger and frustration, it's not essential but it's not just thrown in just because, it's in dialogue and two guys are swearing cause thats the type of characters they are. I just read an Elmore Leonard book that had two thug like hustler guys swearing all the time because that's the type of people they were, it gave them their character. I write poetry and in my time of writing it I've sworn twice but changed it after since I felt it was not necessary, especially in poetry!..which brings me to a reason why swearing is not okay.

There are cases where we come across reading only to notice a swear that isn't necessary, its not only not necessary but makes what we are reading to be tasteless and turns us off..right? I was once in a poetry group here on GR and this guy used to share his poems and they would be filled with swears. He did not put in swears because they were necessary, he did it for shock value, to be noticed, to be tasteless which what I found it to be. The most recent book I read again..the same thing. Put it for shock value or to be cool which isn't needed.
So I believe there is a time and place for swearing in books however some people don't know this and they abuse the privilege..

[Cypher]

Alan wrote: "Hi guys, sorry I am late to this discussion. As mentioned in previous comment by Simon, by book was called Bloody Hell, What's an Alpaca? Now in England bloody hell is pretty mild, but I could not ..."

I really find that strange. Especially as an American. I've even used that phrase myself, both orally and in writing.

[Caddy]

I think you need to be true to the character. A gangster probably wouldn't say, "Oh, doggone it." Nor would a priest probably say, "F you for not inviting me to your f ing dinner." You know?

[Keith]

It really depends on the book and the genre. I'm not a huge fan of swearing if it's just a lazy way of describing something. Often, though, it's part of the story. Thrillers, procedurals, etc. Hard not to have it in there. It's how people talk. It didn't really fit in my book, so instead of using the swears I use the modifier. 'She cursed under her breath', or something similar. That way the authenticity is there without being explicit. I'm a HUGE John Sandford fan and can't imagine his books without the cursing. So, case by case.

[Melissa]

I think swearing depends on the character you're writing and the situation they are in. But it still has to work in the sentence and the conversation. If you say F***k every other word just so its in the book then your just interupting the flow of the story as it becomes offputting.

Some writers are able to use swearing almost as an enchancment whereas some you can tell don't really feel it and they are just putting it in there randomly to seem edgy and if you need swearing for your character to come of as a specific type then you haven't written him very well.

[Sherri]

I choose not to use it in my writing. It's just easier to not deal with the issue. But I'm not offended by it, either. It's reality.

[Simon]

Alan wrote: "Apparently both Canada and the US complained about the tagline of this campaign. Obviously some people didn't get it.
Australia tourism: Where the bloody hell are you?"

An interesting example of cultural differences, where the phrase, "Bloody hell" is not considered strong at all in Australia and yet in other countries it is banned. Or maybe we Aussies are a bunch of uncouth degenerates.
I liked the comment in the link about Australian tourism, where a publicity campaign was deemed offensive for the line: "Where the bloody hell are you?" The tourism minister, defending the advert in the UK said:
"What an absolutely, incredibly ludicrous stance and a greater example of double standards you'd never find. Everyone is shaking their heads, especially as it's in a country where they allow the FCUK billboards... I mean what is it about our campaign that they find offensive? I just don't understand it."