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The Left Hand of Darkness (Hainish Cycle, #4)
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Le Guin: Left Hand of Darkness > INTRODUCTION: Left Hand of Darkness

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message 1: by Traveller (last edited Apr 18, 2013 09:03AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Dear Members
You have elected to read Ursula Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness as our first "Other author" read.

We'll only start with the actual book discussion on April 27, 2013, but in the meantime, I have found an essay (actually the intro to this book) by Le Guin on Science Fiction as a genre from the author's point of view.

I have personally long held the view that science fiction is simply fantasy with some technological bells and whistles, and it is often hard to make a distinction between 'soft' SF and fantasy.

Le Guin just strengthens this idea of mine (I think) in her essay?
You guys are welcome to challenge me on that; I know there are varying opinions on the theme of exactly what constitutes SF. (I'd prefer to call this a speculative novel, btw. )

Don't worry, the intro is not required reading, introductions are not everybody's cuppa tea. I'm just posting it because I know many editions don't contain it, and there may be some people in our ranks who are total completists.

This is for them.

SCIENCE FICTION is often described, and even defined, as extrapolative. The science fiction writer is supposed to take a trend or phenomenon of the here-and-now, purify and intensify it for dramatic effect, and extend it into the future. "If this goes on, this is what will happen."

A prediction is made. Method and results much resemble those of a scientist who feeds large doses of a purified and concentrated food additive to mice, in order to predict what may happen to people who eat it in small quantities for a long time. The outcome seems almost inevitably to be cancer. So does the outcome of extrapolation. Strictly extrapolative works of science fiction generally arrive about where the Club of Rome arrives: somewhere between the gradual extinction of human liberty and the total extinction of terrestrial life.

This may explain why many people who do not read science fiction describe it as 'escapist,' but when questioned further, admit they do not read it because 'it's so depressing.' Almost anything carried to its logical extreme becomes depressing, if not carcinogenic.

Fortunately, though extrapolation is an element in science fiction, it isn't the name of the game by any means. It is far too rationalist and simplistic to satisfy the imaginative mind, whether the writer's or the reader's. Variables are the spice of life.

This book is not extrapolative. If you like you can read it, and a lot of other science fiction, as a thought-experiment. Let's say (says Mary Shelley) that a young doctor creates a human being in his laboratory; let's say (says Philip K. Dick) that the Allies lost the second world war; let's say this or that is such and so, and see what happens... In a story so conceived, the moral complexity proper to the modern novel need not be sacrificed, nor is there any built-in dead end; thought and intuition can move freely within bounds set only by the terms of the experiment, which may be very large indeed.

The purpose of a thought-experiment, as the term was used by Schrodinger and other physicists, is not to predict the future-indeed Schrodinger's most famous thought-experiment goes to show that the 'future,' on the quantum level, cannot be predicted-but to describe reality, the present world.
Science fiction is not predictive; it is descriptive.

Predictions are uttered by prophets (free of charge); by clairvoyants (who usually charge a fee, and are therefore more honored in their day than prophets); and by futurologists (salaried).
Prediction is the business of prophets, clairvoyants, and futurologists. It is not the business of novelists. A novelist's business is lying. The weather bureau will tell you what next Tuesday will be like, and the Rand Corporation will tell you what the twenty-first century will be like.

I don't recommend that you turn to the writers of fiction for such information. It's none of their business. All they're trying to do is tell you what they're like, and what you're like-what's going on-what the weather is now, today, this moment, the rain, the sunlight, look! Open your eyes; listen, listen. That is what the novelists say. But they don't tell you what you will see and hear. All they can tell you is what they have seen and heard, in their time in this world, a third of it spent in sleep and dreaming, another third of it spent in telling lies.

"The truth against the world!"-Yes. Certainly. Fiction writers, at least in their braver moments, do desire the truth: to know it, speak it, serve it. But they go about it in a peculiar and devious way, which consists in inventing persons, places, and events which never did and never will exist or occur, and telling about these fictions in detail and at length and with a great deal of emotion, and then when they are done writing down this pack of lies, they say, There! That's the truth!

They may use all kinds of facts to support their tissue of lies. They may describe the Marshalsea Prison, which was a real place, or the battle of Borodino, which really was fought, or the process of cloning, which really takes place in laboratories, or the deterioration of a personality, which is described in real textbooks of psychology; and so on. This weight of verifiable place-event-phenomenon-behavior makes the reader forget that he is reading a pure invention, a history that never took place anywhere but in that unlocalisable region, the author's mind. In fact, while we read a novel, we are insane-bonkers. We believe in the existence of people who aren't there, we hear their voices, we watch the battle of Borodino with them, we may even become Napoleon. Sanity returns (in most cases) when the book is closed.
Is it any wonder that no truly respectable society has ever trusted its artists?

But our society, being troubled and bewildered, seeking guidance, sometimes puts an entirely mistaken trust in its artists, using them as prophets and futurologists.

I do not say that artists cannot be seers, inspired: that the awen cannot come upon them, and the god speak through them. Who would be an artist if they did not believe that that happens? if they did not know it happens, because, they have felt the god within them use their tongue, their hands? Maybe only once, once in their lives. But once is enough.

Nor would I say that the artist alone is so burdened and so privileged. The scientist is another who prepares, who makes ready, working day and night, sleeping and awake, for inspiration. As Pythagoras knew, the god may speak in the forms of geometry as well as in the shapes of dreams; in the harmony of pure thought as well as in the harmony of sounds; in numbers as well as in words.

But it is words that make the trouble and confusion. We are asked now to consider words as useful in only one way: as signs. Our philosophers, some of them, would have us agree that a word (sentence, statement) has value only in so far as it has one single meaning, points to one fact which is comprehensible to the rational intellect, logically sound, and-ideally-quantifiable.

Apollo, the god of light, of reason, of proportion, harmony, number-Apollo blinds those who press too close in worship. Don't look straight at the sun. Go into a dark bar for a bit and have a beer with Dionysios, every now and then.

I talk about the gods, I am an atheist. But I am an artist too, and therefore a liar. Distrust everything I say. I am telling the truth. The only truth I can understand or express is, logically defined, a lie. Psychologically defined, a symbol. Aesthetically defined, a metaphor.

Oh, it's lovely to be invited to participate in Futurological Congresses where Systems Science displays its grand apocalyptic graphs, to be asked to tell the newspapers what America will be like in 2001, and all that, but it's a terrible mistake. I write science fiction, and science fiction isn't about the future. I don't know any more about the future than you do, and very likely less.

This book is not about the future. Yes, it begins by annnouncing that it's set in the 'Ekumenical Year 1490-97,' but surely you don't believe that? Yes, indeed the people in it are androgynous, but that doesn't mean that I'm predicting that in a millennium or so we will all be androgynous, or announcing that I think we damned well ought to be androgynous. I'm merely observing, in the peculiar, devious, and thought-experimental manner proper to science fiction, that if you look at us at certain odd times of day in certain weathers, we already are. I am not predicting, or prescribing. I am describing. I am describing certain aspects of psychological reality in the novelist's way, which is by inventing elaborately circumstantial lies.

In reading a novel, any novel, we have to know perfectly well that the whole thing is nonsense, and then, while reading, believe every word of it. Finally, when we're done with it, we may find-if it's a good novel-that we're a bit different from what we were before we read it, that we have been changed a little, as if by having met a new face, crossed a street we never crossed before. But it's very hard to say just what we learned, how we were changed.

The artist deals with what cannot be said in words. The artist whose medium is fiction does this in words. The novelist says in words what cannot be said in words.

Words can be used thus paradoxically because they have, along with a semiotic usage, a symbolic or metaphoric usage. (They also have a sound-a fact the linguistic positivists take no interest in. A sentence or paragraph is like a chord or harmonic sequence in music: its meaning may be more clearly understood by the attentive ear, even though it is read in silence, than by the attentive intellect).

All fiction is metaphor. Science fiction is metaphor. What sets it apart from older forms of fiction seems to be its use of new metaphors, drawn from certain great dominants of our contemporary life-science, all the sciences, and technology, and the relativistic and the historical outlook, among them. Space travel is one of these metaphors; so is an alternative society, an alternative biology; the future is another. The future, in fiction, is a metaphor.
A metaphor for what?

If I could have said it non-metaphorically, I would not have written all these words, this novel; and Genly Ai would never have sat down at my desk and used up my ink and typewriter ribbon in informing me, and you, rather solemnly, that the truth is a matter of the imagination.
-Ursula K. Le Guin 1976



Joseph Michael Owens (jm_owens) | 106 comments Thanks Traveller!


Annie (aschoate) | 78 comments She's a liar! Not only that she thinks. about semiotics. I think CM was inspired by these thoughts.


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Annie wrote: "She's a liar! Not only that she thinks. about semiotics. I think CM was inspired by these thoughts."

Yes, don't you love that she calls herself a liar! :D Definitely CM's kind of person.


message 5: by Saski (last edited Apr 19, 2013 09:18AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Saski (sissah) | 266 comments Annie wrote: "She's a liar! Not only that she thinks. about semiotics. I think CM was inspired by these thoughts."

Especially for Embassytown, I would think...

Thanks Traveller!

I love that this was written in 1976!


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments @ Ruth: Yes, I think she certainly counts as one of CM's influences, and of course, for that she has to be, um.. old. :P (I hope she never reads this)

@ Joseph: That's pretty cool, I was going to ask where you found it, but it's there on the image... #_#


message 8: by Derek, Miéville fan-boi (new) - rated it 3 stars

Derek (derek_broughton) | 761 comments I love that quote. Maybe it explains why I still read a considerable amount of YA fiction - there's nothing wrong with being upset by books.


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Derek! I do so hope you'll be joining the discussion!


message 10: by Derek, Miéville fan-boi (new) - rated it 3 stars

Derek (derek_broughton) | 761 comments Yes, just got a copy.


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Whoopee, all the old crowd lining up, and we've got an addition or two this time. I really hope we'll have a good discussion, but with you guys around, how could it be otherwise?


Cecily | 301 comments I probably won't start reading it till the middle of next week at the earliest, but I'll join in when I'm ready.


Pixelina I just couldn't help myself, was going to just read the first pages and got sucked in and now read 1/3 of the book. It is excellent!


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Glad to hear, Jeanette!

Cecily, I have a good idea of your reading pace, so I'm pretty sure you'll keep up easily. :)


message 15: by Derek, Miéville fan-boi (new) - rated it 3 stars

Derek (derek_broughton) | 761 comments OK, Jeanette - you're up first!

I have to finish a quick read that my wife got out of the library, so that she can read it, but then I'll tuck into this one. It should be a breeze. I probably read it 30 years ago (I know I _did_ read it sometime), but I don't remember a thing.


Annie (aschoate) | 78 comments written. in 76 is not old at all!


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Let's say old enough to have inspired some thought in CM, who was born in 1972 (now aged 40).


Cecily | 301 comments Traveller wrote: "Cecily, I have a good idea of your reading pace, so I'm pretty sure you'll keep up easily. :)"

I'll try, but I'm bogged down with work and stuff. I can pop into GR while I'm eating my lunch (as now) or half doing something else, but squeezing in proper reading is harder. :(


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Cecily wrote: "Traveller wrote: "Cecily, I have a good idea of your reading pace, so I'm pretty sure you'll keep up easily. :)"

I'll try, but I'm bogged down with work and stuff. I can pop into GR while I'm eat..."


It's not long. If you have time, you can quickly read half of it this weekend, and the discussion will refresh your memory. :P


Cecily | 301 comments No, it's not long, but my copy is rather small, slightly blurry print, which might slow me down.


Andrea "that the truth is a matter of the imagination" - did this influence the writing of Embassytown? (If I am repeating what someone has already said please forgive, I have had a long abscence from the group)


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Andrea wrote: ""that the truth is a matter of the imagination" - did this influence the writing of Embassytown? (If I am repeating what someone has already said please forgive, I have had a long abscence from th..."

Hi, Andrea, nice to see you out here again. :)

I do believe that Avice did say something to that effect somewhere in her narration.


message 23: by Alex (new) - rated it 3 stars

Alex Buckley (roundballnz) | 4 comments Okay planned just to read a couple of pages & before I knew was totally sucked into the book .... Whoops!


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Ha, ha! Good! I should set up some more threads here.


Pixelina Same with me Alex, I am trying to pace myself and not finish it just yet :-D Already gotten a few of her others on the kindle.


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Here is some bio on U Le Guin, http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1... and scroll down a bit for a speech, which I actually think I'm rather going to put in this thread, because I think it directly pertains to the book we are about to discuss:

Ursula Le Guin said, at a graduation ceremony:
I want to thank the Mills College Class of '83 for offering me a rare chance: to speak aloud in public in the language of women.

I know there are men graduating, and I don't mean to exclude them, far from it. There is a Greek tragedy where the Greek says to the foreigner, “If you don't understand Greek, please signify by nodding.” Anyhow, commencements are usually operated under the unspoken agreement that everybody graduating is either male or ought to be. That’s why we are all wearing these twelfth-century dresses that look so great on men and make women look either like a mushroom or a pregnant stork. Intellectual tradition is male. Public speaking is done in the public tongue, the national or tribal language; and the language of our tribe is the men's language. Of course women learn it. We're not dumb. If you can tell Margaret Thatcher from Ronald Reagan, or Indira Gandhi from General Somoza, by anything they say, tell me how. This is a man’s world, so it talks a man’s language. The words are all words of power. You’ve come a long way, baby, but no way is long enough. You can’t even get there by selling yourself out: because there is theirs, not yours.

Maybe we’ve had enough words of power and talk about the battle of life. Maybe we need some words of weakness. Instead of saying now that I hope you will all go forth from this ivory tower of college into the Real World and forge a triumphant career or at least help your husband to and keep our country strong and be a success in everything - instead of talking about power, what if I talked like a woman right here in public? It won’t sound right. It’s going to sound terrible. What if I said what I hope for you is first, if — only if — you want kids, I hope you have them. Not hordes of them. A couple, enough. I hope they’re beautiful. I hope you and they have enough to eat, and a place to be warm and clean in, and friends, and work you like doing. Well, is that what you went to college for? Is that all? What about success?

Success is somebody else’s failure. Success is the American Dream we can keep dreaming because most people in most places, including thirty million of ourselves, live wide awake in the terrible reality of poverty. No, I do not wish you success. I don’t even want to talk about it. I want to talk about failure.

Because you are human beings you are going to meet failure. You are going to meet disappointment, injustice, betrayal, and irreparable loss. You will find you’re weak where you thought yourself strong. You’ll work for possessions and then find they possess you. You will find yourself — as I know you already have — in dark places, alone, and afraid.

What I hope for you, for all my sisters and daughters, brothers and sons, is that you will be able to live there, in the dark place. To live in the place that our rationalizing culture of success denies, calling it a place of exile, uninhabitable, foreign.

Well, we’re already foreigners. Women as women are largely excluded from, alien to, the self-declared male norms of this society, where human beings are called Man, the only respectable god is male, the only direction is up. So that’s their country; let’s explore our own. I’m not talking about sex; that’s a whole other universe, where every man and woman is on their own. I’m talking about society, the so-called man’s world of institutionalized competition, aggression, violence, authority, and power. If we want to live as women, some separatism is forced upon us: Mills College is a wise embodiment of that separatism. The war-games world wasn’t made by us or for us; we can’t even breathe the air there without masks. And if you put the mask on you’ll have a hard time getting it off. So how about going on doing things our own way, as to some extent you did here at Mills? Not for men and the male power hierarchy — that’s their game. Not against men, either — that’s still playing by their rules. But with any men who are with us: that’s our game. Why should a free woman with a college education either fight Machoman or serve him? Why should she live her life on his terms?

Machoman is afraid of our terms, which are not all rational, positive, competitive, etc. And so he has taught us to despise and deny them. In our society, women have lived, and have been despised for living, the whole side of life that includes and takes responsibility for helplessness, weakness, and illness, for the irrational and the irreparable, for all that is obscure, passive, uncontrolled, animal, unclean — the valley of the shadow, the deep, the depths of life. All that the Warrior denies and refuses is left to us and the men who share it with us and therefore, like us, can’t play doctor, only nurse, can’t be warriors, only civilians, can’t be chiefs, only indians. Well so that is our country. The night side of our country. If there is a day side to it, high sierras, prairies of bright grass, we only know pioneers’ tales about it, we haven’t got there yet. We’re never going to get there by imitating Machoman. We are only going to get there by going our own way, by living there, by living through the night in our own country.

So what I hope for you is that you live there not as prisoners, ashamed of being women, consenting captives of a psychopathic social system, but as natives. That you will be at home there, keep house there, be your own mistress, with a room of your own. That you will do your work there, whatever you’re good at, art or science or tech or running a company or sweeping under the beds, and when they tell you that it’s second-class work because a woman is doing it, I hope you tell them to go to hell and while they’re going to give you equal pay for equal time. I hope you live without the need to dominate, and without the need to be dominated. I hope you are never victims, but I hope you have no power over other people. And when you fail, and are defeated, and in pain, and in the dark, then I hope you will remember that darkness is your country, where you live, where no wars are fought and no wars are won, but where the future is. Our roots are in the dark; the earth is our country. Why did we look up for blessing — instead of around, and down? What hope we have lies there. Not in the sky full of orbiting spy-eyes and weaponry, but in the earth we have looked down upon. Not from above, but from below. Not in the light that blinds, but in the dark that nourishes, where human beings grow human souls.



Saski (sissah) | 266 comments Traveller wrote: "@ Ruth: Yes, I think she certainly counts as one of CM's influences, and of course, for that she has to be, um.. old. :P (I hope she never reads this)

upon reading the bio you left for us I realized she is the same age as my mother...84 this year...



Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Right, people, we can start with chapters 1-3 here
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1....

Since this book is the fourth in a series, the Hainish cycle, I posted a bit of a backstory on that thread, for those of us who have not read the other books.

About the Hainish cycle, from Wikipedia:
In the first three novels—Rocannon's World, Planet of Exile, and City of Illusions—there is or was a League of all Worlds; in City of Illusions, it seems to have been conquered or fragmented by an alien race, called the Shing, from beyond the League.

In the fourth, The Left Hand of Darkness, it seems that the planets of the former League of Worlds have re-united as the Ekumen, which was founded by the Hainish people.

The fifth, The Dispossessed, is the earliest chronologically in the Hainish Cycle. The Cetians have been visited by people from other planets, including Earth and Hain. The various planets are separate, though there is some talk of a union. The idea of an ansible is known but none yet exists: Shevek's new physics may be - in fact, eventually is - the key.

The sixth, The Word for World is Forest, has the League of Worlds and the ansible as new creations. The term 'Ekumen' is not used.

Later novels and short stories speak only of the Ekumen, which now includes the Gethenians, who were the subject of The Left Hand of Darkness.



Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Members, please note that you are encouraged to post your own input, links, whatever you wish, on the threads already created!

However, please only view the thread marked as 1], if you have already read the first 3 chapters of the novel, if you care about not encountering spoilers. :)


message 30: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I'm a bit worried. I haven't been able to find a copy yet. Trav, can I read over your shoulder?


message 31: by Traveller (last edited Apr 26, 2013 07:40AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments I can lend anyone my Amazon ebook library copy. One is allowed to lend out your books to other members. I think Kobo has a similar thing. Ian, I have sent you my library copy; I happen to have spares of this book, including a paperback.


message 32: by Derek, Miéville fan-boi (new) - rated it 3 stars

Derek (derek_broughton) | 761 comments Really? I just checked Amazon and couldn't find it. I'd have preferred to get it from Kobo because I have credit and discounts available, there, but they definitely don't have it.


message 33: by Traveller (last edited Apr 26, 2013 01:38PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Well, then it must be Kobo? You say not? I'll have to investigate then... I do have at least one e-book of it, in addition to my at least one paper copy... yeah, I know, guilty of book squirrelism!

What you need to do, Derek, is find a few local used bookstores. Those places are addictive, and the treasure to be found can come at amazing bargains! Try it and see! I'll bet you can pick up a copy of this used for a nickel and a dime...


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments But please don't blame me for the hours you'll lose to your new addiction... :P


message 35: by Traveller (last edited Apr 26, 2013 01:53PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Strange, Akmazon UK has quite a few paperback copies, including a Kindle edition,http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Left-Hand...
and Amazon .com,the US store, as well; here is their Kindle edition:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Left-Hand-D...
-- you must always remember to look on all the branches of Amazon. Did you look on the Canadian one?
In fact, you can buy a new paperback for 2c, and a used one, for 1c!


message 36: by Derek, Miéville fan-boi (new) - rated it 3 stars

Derek (derek_broughton) | 761 comments I looked on the Canadian and US sites. Couldn't find an e-book.

And look at this, from your Amazon.com link: "This title is not currently available for purchase". Argh!


message 37: by Alex (new) - rated it 3 stars

Alex Buckley (roundballnz) | 4 comments I think its Amazon's geo-blocking at work again - I know I can only buy Kindle books from the Us site not UK - which is a pain ......


message 38: by Traveller (last edited Apr 27, 2013 01:37AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Derek wrote: "I looked on the Canadian and US sites. Couldn't find an e-book.

And look at this, from your Amazon.com link: "This title is not currently available for purchase". Argh!"


It doesn't say that for me, Derek,there is an ebook available if I look at Amazon.com the US store. I'll show you a screenshot of my link- I'll post a screenshot later today.

I think Alex must be right. If there was ever a repulsive practice on earth, it is that geographical BS that they have imposed on the world. That is the single and biggest reason why I hate Amazon with a deep deep hatred. ... and mind you, this foul practice is not restricted to books or to Amazon...


message 39: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye If I understand what you're referring to, isn't it a product of local Intellectual Property laws? If the copyright period was identical, it would be a lot easier to have uniformity around the world.


message 40: by Traveller (last edited Apr 27, 2013 06:55AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Ian wrote: "If I understand what you're referring to, isn't it a product of local Intellectual Property laws? If the copyright period was identical, it would be a lot easier to have uniformity around the world."

No, I'm talking about the artificially created regionalism that is instituted by publishers in order to make more money. This is done with games and films as well. The book under discussion cannot be in the public domain anywhere on earth, since the author is currently still alive.


message 41: by Derek, Miéville fan-boi (new) - rated it 3 stars

Derek (derek_broughton) | 761 comments Traveller wrote: " The book under discussion cannot be in the public domain anywhere on earth, since the author is currently still alive."

Well, except where the author explicitly places it in the public domain - but that's not true of this book either.

It might be geo-blocking, but previously that's always appeared differently on Amazon. I've always seen that the book is available, but if I try to purchase it I get told that I can't purchase from Amazon.com. They might have changed that, because I imagine I wasn't the only person to complain about them wasting my time. otoh, it does show as available at amazon.co.uk.


Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments Derek wrote: "Traveller wrote: " The book under discussion cannot be in the public domain anywhere on earth, since the author is currently still alive."

Well, except where the author explicitly places it in the..."


Well, have you got a Kindle? You can always dld a PC variety if you don't. I forgot to check what the UK price is for the Kindle version...


Nataliya | 378 comments This introduction. It was what made me fall in love with this book - and Ursula Le Guin - even before I read a single page of the book proper.

""The truth against the world!"-Yes. Certainly. Fiction writers, at least in their braver moments, do desire the truth: to know it, speak it, serve it. But they go about it in a peculiar and devious way, which consists in inventing persons, places, and events which never did and never will exist or occur, and telling about these fictions in detail and at length and with a great deal of emotion, and then when they are done writing down this pack of lies, they say, There! That's the truth!"

It's so fitting that we are reading this after 'Embassytown'.

"We tell the truth best by becoming lies." Indeed.


message 44: by Derek, Miéville fan-boi (new) - rated it 3 stars

Derek (derek_broughton) | 761 comments Traveller wrote: "Well, have you got a Kindle? You can always dld a PC variety if you don't."

I download Kindle versions regularly - and don't have a Kindle. That's not an issue. It's 4 pounds something at Amazon UK.


Allen (allenblair) | 227 comments Glad to see everyone here! And can't wait to get into full discussion mode. Travelling to washington, DC, currently. But will have lots of hotel nights to read and comment after tomorrow!

Nataliya wrote: "This introduction. It was what made me fall in love with this book - and Ursula Le Guin - even before I read a single page of the book proper.

""The truth against the world!"-Yes. Certainly. Ficti..."


Fitting indeed. I've already dog-eared a few pages that you could use as Embassytown bookmarks :)


Nataliya | 378 comments Allen wrote: "Fitting indeed. I've already dog-eared a few pages that you could use as Embassytown bookmarks :) "

Yessss! It's nice to meet a fellow book dog-earer ;)


message 47: by Derek, Miéville fan-boi (new) - rated it 3 stars

Derek (derek_broughton) | 761 comments Book-abusers!


Nataliya | 378 comments Derek wrote: "Book-abusers!"

Hehe, think of it as body modifications of our loved ones.


message 49: by Alex (new) - rated it 3 stars

Alex Buckley (roundballnz) | 4 comments Nataliya wrote:Hehe, think of it as body modifications of our loved ones."

Love it !!! ...... but you do miss hoarding bookmarks


message 50: by Traveller (last edited Apr 28, 2013 12:34AM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Traveller (moontravlr) | 1838 comments I have bookmarks but I'm always losing them. :) Looking forward. Come guys, we already started with the first 30 pages, and will probably go on to the next 30-40 tonight, yes? I'll set up a page for that later this Sunday, April 28.

For now, it's just:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
For your convenience, once we have more threads, will set up and index page with links. :)


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