Horror Aficionados discussion
Authors, What Do You Feel When You Read Negative Reviews of Your Books?
Jonathan wrote: "David wrote: "Jonathon and (the other) David, I don't think you should discount your work too much. The 99 cent realm is only valid if you want to be a dime store pulp fiction writer. Do you? If ..."
Try it Jonathan. If you are proud of your work, you should charge a fair price. I agree with discounting the first book in a series, to let the reader know what they are getting into. But don't under-price a stand alone work, unless it is a limited time offer. Readers either get spoiled and start thinking #2.99 is too much, or automatically think a 99 cent novel can't be any good. LOL.
Traci L. wrote: "$2.99 isn't too much for a novel. Neither is $3.99 really, though I would more likely spend this amount on an author who was already familiar to me or came with a high recommendation. But I think..."
Yes, Traci, I only charge $3.99 for the third book in my series. Why? Because I know my universe of buyers for that book is only composed of those who read and liked the first two books. They don't seem to mind paying the extra $1. :)
David wrote: "Traci L. wrote: "$2.99 isn't too much for a novel. Neither is $3.99 really, though I would more likely spend this amount on an author who was already familiar to me or came with a high recommendati..."David, that was my point exactly. Your previous books have assured your readers they will get their money's worth at $3.99 a pop. (Actually they're getting a deal...I've read your work.) $2.99 seems fair for someone still establishing their audience. $.99 may as well be free, being that you're cutting your price in thirds and reducing your royalties substantially on top of that.
Giving a book away (particularly if it's the first in a series) is becoming more and more of a standard marketing technique. Readers have become more suspicious of books with high rating averages because that did work for a while, so consequently it evolved into just another marketing tool. Nowadays many readers will look at a book with a high average star rating and assume those ratings and reviews were probably solicited, either from family and friends, by being paid for, or swapped from one author to another as a 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours' exchange, etc. Heck, there's a bestselling ebook out there that promotes exactly this method.Fact is, the painful irony nowadays is that if your book has too high of a star average, the less likely it is to be taken seriously. I know this because I have read posts from readers saying just that, even here in HA.
But a free book is harder to find fault with. Of course there will still be those upset over the lost time spent reading it if the book doesn't measure up to their standards, but outside of paying people to read the darned thing, I can't think of a way around that.
Walter wrote: "Giving a book away (particularly if it's the first in a series) is becoming more and more of a standard marketing technique. Readers have become more suspicious of books with high rating averages b..."LOL! I know there are rating scams out there. In fact, I sometimes wonder if some negative reviews of my book are fake. ;) I only say that because a few of the few 1 star ratings come from "people" who have never reviewed any other book, or only a few and always negatively. But I suppose there might be some "people" out there that only care enough to give comments on books they detest. LOL
I am happy to give away my first book, because it seems to have a high conversion rate for sales on the 2nd and 3rd. In fact, I am giving away Voyage of the Dead for FREE on Smashwords this month with Coupon Code ZE75J at https://www.smashwords.com/books/view... (It's new to Smashwords and other outlets, so the reviews are all here and on Amazon). Please feel FREE to grab a copy and share the coupon code with your friends.
I suppose I should be happy that my first book has slightly less than a 4 star rating. The next two have better ratings, but that is obviously because only those who like #1 go on to read the rest. :)
Agreed, David. The rating system is a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition. I've never paid anyone for a rating or pushed reviewers to be anything else but honest, and I've received mostly positive reviews on (I hope) the strength of my work... and yet, people regard it as suspicious.
Christopher wrote: "Agreed, David. The rating system is a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition. I've never paid anyone for a rating or pushed reviewers to be anything else but honest, and I've received mo..."True words. And then you get people who will give you one star, just because they had a bad experience with Amazon, regardless of how good or bad your book was. They're the worst kind of reviewers.
Christopher wrote: "Agreed, David. The rating system is a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition. I've never paid anyone for a rating or pushed reviewers to be anything else but honest, and I've received mo..."Unfortunately, the actions of some independent authors have filled the minds of readers with doubts when it comes to reviews. So many have been shown to have garnered reviews from friends and family members, that now the thought has been implanted in the minds of readers.
Last year or the year before, there were a number of reviews taken down by Amazon after they were shown to be faked/paid for/family/publishers/friends, etc...
After that, you can't blame readers for being cautious, you know?
I am not an author, just a seasoned reader, who likes to post reviews (ever since I got my Kindle in Aug 2010). When I am looking at a book, especially from a new or unknown author I look at the reviews, and especially the bad reviews. As some folks have mentioned when the reviewer only gripes about Amazon problems I blow that reviewer off.
I have only written a couple of 1-star reviews, and I felt I wrote those because the books were very poorly written.
What does give me cause for concern is when I see a large number of 5-star reviews and the reviewers are all saying the same thing. Then I click on the Reviewers History to see how many books and what types of books they have reviewed. If I see that this is the 1st & only book they have reviwed I begin to wonder. If several more fit this same scheme then I would probably pass on that book.
Also, if I see the reviewer normally reviews romance/paranormal type books then out of the clear blue they decide to read an action/zombie/spy thriller and go on & on about how great that book is (5-stars) again I begin to wonder.
I just want the Truth. When I see a negative review it makes me work that much harder at my craft.
Mod
While the vigilantes of Dim were crying to Amazon about "fake" reviews and harassing people, Mr. Locke built his entire career on bought reviews and no one noticed.
Basically, you sell your books on Amazon, and have them reviewed somewhere else that has moderators and standards.
I really love reading reviews. I think that as a discerning reader, I can judge whether or not a negative review is a valid reason to keep me from reading a certain book. For instance, if they complain that characters are underdeveloped are two-dimensional, I might see if other people agreed and, if they do, I might avoid the novel. However, if the reviewer complains that the subject matter is too dark and made them uncomfortable and that there was too much violence or the prose was too elaborate, I know that (based on the negative review) I will probably enjoy this book!Now, I'm going to reveal an unpopular opinion: I go out of my way not to purchase self-published or indie books. I'll buy them if I am friends with the author or if a lot of people I respect recommend it (and I mean like 7 people have to recommend it for me to consider it!) I'm sure this seems unfair, but I have read too many that were terribly written, and there are so many traditionally published novels that I really want to read. And I really dislike when authors of these things try to solicit me for a positive review.
Hi Tiffany, I think that's fair enough. I'm an indie author and I understand that. The world is already chock full of amazing books right? Once I have a catalogue I'll start giving books away, I think it's an approach Indie authors need to take to give a reader the opportunity to become a fan. I mostly sample indie work when it's free. If I like them then I'll buy other work from them.
Charlene wrote: "Unfortunately, the actions of some independent authors have filled the minds of readers with doubts when it comes to reviews. So many have been shown to have garnered reviews from friends and family members, that now the thought has been implanted in the minds of readers...After that, you can't blame readers for being cautious, you know? ..."I am probably too suspicious of 4- and 5-star reviews for new authors.
David wrote: "Also, if I see the reviewer normally reviews romance/paranormal type books then out of the clear blue they decide to read an action/zombie/spy thriller and go on & on about how great that book is (5-stars) again I begin to wonder. ..."I think authors should rest easy because we avid readers have several ways to tell if a review is legitimate. For me most books I've read have never been so bad they deserve one star, so when I see a bunch of these I just scroll past them.
It is pretty obvious from the similar style of comments on some self-published books that many reviews are written by one person who has made up several accounts with Amazon to do that. I assume it is the author doing this, and take no further interest. I look for whether the reviewer bought the book at Amazon, and whether the "real name" notification by Amazon is up. If it's just a lot of fake names who have not bought the book, well, I know what to think of that. Real reviews have different styles and lengths and emphasis.
I have to be honest I never gave a 1 star review and 2 star I think once .. I find if a book is that bad I can't finish it and if I can't finish it. I won't review it.
Teresa wrote: "I have to be honest I never gave a 1 star review and 2 star I think once .. I find if a book is that bad I can't finish it and if I can't finish it. I won't review it."That's a nice discipline (nicer than I am...). Mine is that I never give negatives on the reviews themselves. If I think it's fraudulent or uneducated (20 words, six misspelled), or any other problem I just don't "like" it. Otherwise, if I have read the review I do try to approve it, seems only fair, because I do appreciate reviews and depend on them.
A lot of people do dislike negative reviews, and I think that's because people want a reason to read a given book: they want to read it, that's why they are there, and they wish they weren't being told it's no good, so they shoot the messenger, so to speak.
Teresa, that's what I do. I don't have time to read really bad books so if I'm not digging it for whatever reason (and sometimes the reason is me and my mood, not the book), then I put it down and would normally not review/rate a book I didn't finish. Although I think I have a "didn't finish" shelf here at GR just for me to keep up with my reading, even those books I didn't make it through.
also if there aren't any reviews on a book people tend not to read it.. So i'll have to assume giving no review is almost equal to a bad.. The only time I gave a 2 star was a series .. the 3rd book completly changed and I hated it..but I clearly stated why and felt the author should have just ended it and did a new series.. everybody else seem to hate it too..lol
Tressa wrote: "Teresa, that's what I do. I don't have time to read really bad books so if I'm not digging it for whatever reason (and sometimes the reason is me and my mood, not the book), then I put it down and ..."I get like that with horror books sometimes tressa.. I have a few i started but just not ready to finish..nothing wrong with them but i wasn't in the mood
Teresa wrote: "also if there aren't any reviews on a book people tend not to read it.. So i'll have to assume giving no review is almost equal to a bad.. The only time I gave a 2 star was a series .. the 3rd book..."Not necessarily! I tend to read out of print or scholarly or obscure stuff and then there may not be any reviews. I try to review them if I like them or if there is some serious problem (no illustrations despite the book depending on them happened one time!). I try to be particularly responsible if there are no other or few reviews because then mine is important feedback on the book site.
ah phebe ..I just read for pure fun! :)
So do I, but I have a weird idea of fun. [:-)
I've been lucky to get mostly good reviews here and on Amazon. On Goodreads, for example, my series has a 4.03 star average on 278 ratings. I've heard the argument that some people don't trust books with lots of 5 star reviews, but I think that is more of a problem on Amazon than Goodreads. I never solicited reviews, but I did notice that a few of my friends have read and rated my books. My uncle bought one of the first paperbacks in March and I see he rated it 4 stars on Amazon (he's a tough guy to please). :) But I really don't think that is inappropriate, as long as the vast majority of reviews come from strangers. One thing that I find a little concerning on Goodreads is when authors rate their own books. I understand the temptation to kick off a new release with a good review, but it seems a bit disingenuous and can skew the ratings for a book that doesn't have many reviews. I made that mistake with my very first release (Voyage of the Dead Introductory First Look) but deleted it and never did it again. Now I just mark my own books as "read" and let others be the judge and jury.
Mostly 5 stars might make me wonder... but what really makes me suspect something is when the reviews are split between 5 and 1 star ratings only.
I read somewhere (not here) that authors have caught on to this and now are asking friends to leave 3 star reviews instead.
I read somewhere (not here) that authors have caught on to this and now are asking friends to leave 3 star reviews instead.
I've never reviewed one of my own works. I'd never even marked them as Read, but it makes a lot of sense to do so. After all, I've read those suckers more than anybody.
You caught me! LOL. But that just sounds silly. I've been getting a lot of messages lately asking if I would review books in return for a free copy, usually because they say their book is similar to another that I have reviewed. I don't really have time for extra reading and have declined, but what are your thoughts on that practice?
Amazon also has some strange policies. They wiped a bunch of reviews of gifted books and seem to frown on "review copies" sent by authors to reviewers. As if a gifted eBook is supposed to "buy" a good rating? What I find strange about that is that MANY of my best reviews came from people who admit they grabbed my first book during a KDP Select freebie promotion. So what is the difference? :)
David wrote: "I've been lucky to get mostly good reviews here and on Amazon. On Goodreads, for example, my series has a 4.03 star average on 278 ratings. "Congrats on your books' popularity --- it seems to me if people are suspicious they should look at the style of the reviews, not just the number of stars. After all, some books do get a lot of stars, because people like them.
Several in a row with similar lengths, similar writing style, same sort of comments, it's pretty easy to tell when someone is stuffing the reviews with fakes or family.
Readers have the right to their opinion (as long as they actually read the book and aren't doing some sort of guerilla political action).I generally don't read my reviews. I can't say anything to change a reader's opinion and I'm certainly not going to rewrite the book because someone didn't like it.
David wrote: I've been getting a lot of messages lately asking if I would review books in return for a free copy, usually because they say their book is similar ... I don't really have time for extra reading and have declined, but what are your thoughts on that practice?"
Interesting question. Well, Stephen King has been a reliable reviewer or blurber for many years, always kind and enthusiastic, which staves off envy, I would think. He always claims to have read the books!! I have long wondered how he can read all THAT...but I trust him, and anyway we know he does read a lot; he writes about that and his first work on writing was pretty much a course on horror fiction.
You are saying that people ask you to review the work because of your reviews (which clearly they like), not because you author other books, like blurb writers. Why not if you like?(I agree nobody supposes a free book would be a bribe!! There's a whole lot of free books floating around out there.)
But it doesn't sound as though you would get much out of it for publicizing your own books. For that, you need to be a bookcover blurber, though who knows how that will change as bookcovers go extinct. I've seen some reviews lately clearly labeled as by X or Y well-known author, and the quid pro quo for publicity is clear. I usually read these, so far, but I'm not sure they are especially independent reviews; mutual congratulations, as a rule.
The book business is in such a turmoil of change you may as well try out opportunities as you see them jet by.
Scott Nicholson wrote: "Readers have the right to their opinion (as long as they actually read the book and aren't doing some sort of guerilla political action).I generally don't read my reviews. I can't say anything to..."
I do read my reviews and not just the good ones. I did get some insights and constructive criticism that came in handy when I sent my books for professional editing. One scene in particular, early in the first book, generated most of the negative reviews based solely on political views expressed by a character. The scene was not critical to the plot, so it was revised to be more palatable to a particular segment of the target audience. I also use selected quotes from good reviews in my promotions on social media. Some of them are real gems. :)
Mod
I don't trust reviewers, most blurbs, the New York Times Book Review, Barnes & Noble's Staff suggestions or family members when it comes to books.
David wrote: I've been getting a lot of messages lately asking if I would review books in return for a free copy . . . what are your thoughts on that practice?This is pretty much how the Goodreads giveaway program works. Authors and/or publishers offer X number of physical books via the program (no ebooks currently allowed, though Goodreads competitor LibraryThing does allow ebooks in their giveaways). Goodreads members select books they're interested in winning, and are informed after the deadline if they've won.
Winners are in no way required to review these books, but Goodreads does encourage them to do so. It's commonly believed that the algorithm Goodreads uses to determine winners is calculated in such a way as to somewhat favor folks who review giveaways, though I don't recall having seen this verified anywhere. Can anyone cite otherwise?
I've given away twenty-one copies of House of Shadows this way, and gotten maybe a dozen or so reviews and/or ratings as a result (Goodreads claims a review average of close to 60% on average via this program). I was so encouraged by these results that I wrote (but have yet to post) an article for my blog touting the program. I may still post it, but with a caveat warning folks how badly the growing prevalence of sock puppet reviews has contaminated reviews in general.
Phebe wrote: "David wrote: I've been getting a lot of messages lately asking if I would review books in return for a free copy, usually because they say their book is similar ... I don't really have time for ex..."
Oh, I have done book blurbs for other indie authors and received nice ones for my books too. I use some of them in the product description of my books, and I know a few who use mine in theirs.
BTW, I only write good reviews of indie books (main stream authors can and should deal with harsh critics, but it can be the kiss of death for a newbie indie). If I can't write a good a review for an indie I don't review it at all. As Mom always said, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. :) I also feel like it is bad karma for an author to write negative reviews of others' work (and can even invite retaliation from the author or their fans).
Teresa wrote: "I have to be honest I never gave a 1 star review and 2 star I think once .. I find if a book is that bad I can't finish it and if I can't finish it. I won't review it."***
Teresa, I know what you mean. But I once read a book that was really really poorly written (hence my one-star review). I would have quit, but I wanted to give it an honest review so I FORCED myself to finish reading it. It was painful, but the book had several good reviews that I suspected were fellow authors chipping in with good reviews (for example, a romance author gave this action "thriller" a 5-star review and I checked her history and she did not have EVEN one book review closely related to an action thriller).
And just last month an author asked if they could send me a book to review (based on my reviews of some Matt Reilly books). I took a chance and said yes. Well, I tried, really tried to read that book, but I just HAD to give up at the 50% mark. I wrote the author back and thanked him, but said his book was just not my cup of tea (too confusing, I did get into any of the characters), and was no way anywhere near in quality to a Matt Reilly book. I did not post a review because I did not finish the book. Just because a book is free does not mean that I will give out a good review.
If an indie "read for review" book is dreadful, I won't review it if I feel that I couldn't even give it two stars.
almost the same here. I won't post a review for a review request if I feel I can't give the book 3 stars. unfortunately that means I rarely post reviews for books I've been requested to read. ah well.
I've been burned before on a book by believing the blurbs on the back cover from famous authors. Wonder if they're getting compensated in some way?
Walter wrote: "a caveat warning folks how badly the growing prevalence of sock puppet reviews has contaminated reviews in general"A new big problem in this rapidly changing book publication situation.
Tressa wrote: "I've been burned before on a book by believing the blurbs on the back cover from famous authors. Wonder if they're getting compensated in some way?"I doubt famous authors need monetary compensation. I hope there isn't a quid pro quo going on: I blurbed yours, you owe me a blurb. It's possible.
I have long assumed it's how famous authors fend off envy, by being generous.
Even rich people hunger for more money. I doubt it's always true that they do it for compensation, but I wonder sometimes because authors whose opinions I think highly of have had some glowing words to say about some stinkers.
Tressa wrote: "Charlene wrote: "Unfortunately, the actions of some independent authors have filled the minds of readers with doubts when it comes to reviews. So many have been shown to have garnered reviews from ..."Not wanting to blow my own trumpet but I've had some 4 and far star reviews from people on this site who reviewed my work. No money changed hands, there was no arrangement to reciprocate, and yet, people seemed happy with my work. I do agree that some authors abuse the system, but some new authors are well worth the praise.
I doubt many authors actually read the books they recommend. Maybe I'm just cynical. But I imagine it's part of their publishing contracts.
Mod
Back in the day, if an author read someone else's book and wrote a blurb for the paperback edition, publishers would reprint the original blurb, edited to remove any hint it did not apply to the new book on every book published after the first one.
Robert Bloch was blurbing books long after his death.
R.M.F wrote: "Tressa wrote: "Charlene wrote: "Unfortunately, the actions of some independent authors have filled the minds of readers with doubts when it comes to reviews. So many have been shown to have garner..."R.M.F., I have no doubt that there are some great new authors out there. I read a lot of Indie authors, and I couldn't agree with you more.
However, in my experience there are way more poor Indies than good ones.And these poor ones ruin it for all the good ones out there.
Traci L. wrote: "I doubt many authors actually read the books they recommend. Maybe I'm just cynical. But I imagine it's part of their publishing contracts."This is an interesting stat I've mentioned many times before:
The average person who reads 1 book a week (and lives to the age of 76) will read 3900 books in their lifetime. So yeah, I believe what your saying that it's impossible to read lots of books. Choose wisely.
Charlene wrote: "However, in my experience there are way more poor Indies than good ones.And these poor ones ruin it for all the good ones out there. "I would agree, although I don't think that should be surprising. The barriers to entry are very low and I don't think enough people have the personal filters to ask themselves "is this really ready?" before hitting publish.
I think the ones who really ruin it, though, are the small vocal minority who will viciously go after any who dare claim that their 'baby' isn't beautiful.
As per the original question...Sometimes I agree with the negative review. I'll think about the work and realize, crap, they might be right! But since my published work has been nonfiction so far (none of my novels have been published) it's a little harder because when they are attacking my main "character" it really is personal because my main character is myself. :-)
I find that drinking helps.
(That was just a joke. Or maybe it wasn't.)
Horror Aficionados
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But I think selling an "introduction" novel for .99¢ is a good idea. Get readers to take a chance because of the low price and hope they come back for the writing.