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Authors, What Do You Feel When You Read Negative Reviews of Your Books?
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Kate
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Jul 13, 2013 07:38AM
Well said, Walter and Tiffany. :)
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I get sad when I see so many people refusing to pay more than $2.99 for an indie novel. Mass market paperbacks cost anything between $5.99 and $9.99 in the US, and are frequently terrible. In Australia, where I live, a paperback costs anywhere up to $24.99. To think that many people consider a novel of 50,000- 100,000 words - months or even years of an author's life - worth less than a cappuccino, is disappointing.That said, I wish I could price my short stories below 99c. If Amazon gave me an easier method of making my short-shorts permanently free, I'd take it.
Walter wrote: "It's an experiment for me, Teresa. I'm looking for a way to minimize expenses, what with all the book club reads I'm trying to do. I figure that if I read a book and like it, I can always purchase ..."Walter have you ever tried any of the booklending sites?
Grammar Goebbels wrote: "Charlene wrote: I'm sorry, but that came off very anti reader."
.....I honestly fail to see how my comments were "anti-reader."
When I review a book, I finish the whole thing, even if I already..."
Ok..You guys are confusing me..how do you know if the author is republican or democratic ..gay or straight.. I never go beyond there bio because I don't care about that.. Its if they weave a story that can capture me. Also I will not finish a book I don't like and I won't write a review.. The worst I gave a book was 2 stars and I made sure to clearly state why I did.
Christopher wrote: "I get sad when I see so many people refusing to pay more than $2.99 for an indie novel. Mass market paperbacks cost anything between $5.99 and $9.99 in the US, and are frequently terrible. In Austr..."well painters spend lots of money on supplies and months of work and it never sells..nature of the business..Actors also.. I've been trying to write and I don't expect to make a dime. Its about me and my own outlet and growth..want money get 9-5 job
Also years ago those indie authors wouldn't have even had a shot at selling at .99 .. because of the prices I read more then i ever did in my life..
I pretty much read exclusively on my kindle app now. I refuse to pay more than $7/8 for an ebook and try and keep my books below $5. This means I can buy more books in the long run and support more authors. :)
Teresa wrote: "GOk..You guys are confusing me..how do you know if the author is republican or democratic ..gay or straight....."Well, if you see a pattern of political/gender/religion, etc., bashing in one or more books/stories then you can pretty much figure out which side they are on. Or follow them on Twitter or Facebook and see just what they reveal. I am sometimes shocked at the things some authors will reveal on social media that could really cut into their fan base. But, if that's how they roll, so be it. For the most part it doesn't bother me, unless it's continuous and if it is and I'm constantly insulted by their opinions about me or my affiliation or lifestyle, why would I continue to support them.
> well painters spend lots of money on supplies and months of work and it never sells..nature of the business..Actors also.. I've been trying to write and I don't expect to make a dime. Its about me and my own outlet and growth..want money get 9-5 jobThat's your choice. For many other people, writing IS their 9-5 job, and I feel that readers should respect the work put into the books they enjoy. A short story or brief novella may well only be worth 99c, but if you get ten hours good reading out of a novel then I think that experience should be worth more than 80c an hour.
Christopher wrote: "I get sad when I see so many people refusing to pay more than $2.99 for an indie novel. Mass market paperbacks cost anything between $5.99 and $9.99 in the US, and are frequently terrible. In Austr..."Well, I'm not saying I've never paid that much for an indie novel, but when the market is flooded with indie writers who can't write a cohesive, interesting story, those $2.99s add up to a lot of money people can't always afford to throw away in this economy. And I have especially been burned by great, glowing reviews of indie works, only to think halfway in: WTF were the reviewers thinking when they praised it so highly?
Tressa wrote: when the market is flooded with indie writers who can't write a cohesive, interesting story, those $2.99s add up to a lot of money people can't always afford to throw away in this economy. And I have especially been burned by great, glowing reviews of indie works, only to think halfway in: WTF were the reviewers thinking when they praised it so highly? I understand that completely. A lot of awful indie works have hundreds of inflated reviews, and I feel burned when I make a bad purchase. But I don't see how it's any different to purchasing a traditionally published book at $9.99, especially when Amazon allows you to both preview the first 10% of a book and return it for a full refund if you don't enjoy it.
My personal philosophy - pay proper novel prices for good indie works, and return those that you feel stole from your pocket.
Tressa wrote: "Teresa wrote: "GOk..You guys are confusing me..how do you know if the author is republican or democratic ..gay or straight....."Well, if you see a pattern of political/gender/religion, etc., bash..."
So the authors who keep writing kinky sexual details .. means they are kinky? lol.. I only have one author I'm friends with on facebook but she is a walking dead fan and says when her books are going to be published..never saw anything posted like the other authors are doing
Christopher wrote: "> well painters spend lots of money on supplies and months of work and it never sells..nature of the business..Actors also.. I've been trying to write and I don't expect to make a dime. Its about m..."wtf? 8 cents a hour? that would be true if you were selling it to one person.. the point is to sell to many..if price is right more will buy..so sell for 9.99 have 1 person buy it then..with the digital market you don't have to hope a book store will buy it. There is no cost of print.. So your .8 cent comment makes no sense
Kate wrote: "I pretty much read exclusively on my kindle app now. I refuse to pay more than $7/8 for an ebook and try and keep my books below $5. This means I can buy more books in the long run and support more..."Thanks, Kate!
I don't feel as an unknown author I can expect readers to 'risk' their money on me. I try and keep my books as low priced as I can, as many of us do, to encourage risk, so to speak.
As for reviews, I've written a book and someone has read it, they're entitled to write what they like about it. As long as it's honest and not motivated by another reason. Bad reviews sting but that's the nature of the beast.
Teresa, I think you missed my point entirely. I'm talking about what you as a reader feel your entertainment is worth.
Christopher wrote: "But I don't see how it's any different to purchasing a traditionally published book at $9.99, especially when Amazon allows you to both preview the first 10% of a book and return it for a full refund if you don't enjoy it...."I feel that it's a little more difficult to inflate or bloat reviews of a book that is traditionally published because a lot of the bad stuff is weeded out before it makes it to a publishing house, or that's how I feel about it. And these books are professionally reviewed in publications that I trust more than someone's relatives on Amazon or GR. But, yeah, you can get burned by going to a bookstore and buying a paper copy of a book. But the indie, self-published market is much more saturated with crap.
Had no idea about Amazon's generous return policy for horrible books. Will have to look into that.
well you dont make your point very well.. Many people out here..work 60-80 hours a week at jobs we don't enjoy with no overtime pay.. people are being layed off.. and your complaining that they don't buy books for 9.99? sorry there is a thing called enconomy... you have to price so the masses can afford the books
Tressa - yeah, I agree. There's a lot of crud in the indie marketplace, and it takes a lot of effort to sift through it. But I also had the pleasure of working as an assistant manager at a small bookshop for four years, and I'd estimate that 80% of the professionally published works that arrived on our shelves were equally cruddy. Traditional publishers print what they think will sell, and what sells isn't always what's good.
Teresa - I don't think you're making your point very well either. You're implying that because many people are having hard financial times, book authors - the people who work for months or even years, pouring their hearts on to paper to entertain others, and living below the poverty line - should give their work away even cheaper? Just because one group of people aren't earning much money doesn't mean another group should earn even less.
LOL, Christopher. Looks like readers can get screwed the indie or traditional route of publishing. We have to be diligent and do our homework, that's for sure. I agree there is a lot of crap even in traditional publishing. And I've read some good indie stuff, so it's not always set in stone. But for me in general I've had more luck by going on reviews of a traditionally published book compared to taking a chance on an indie book.
Tressa - as always, I feel the best way to discover great indie or traditional work is word of mouth. I trust my friends and Goodreads contacts more than any number of Amazon reviews :)
Christopher wrote: "Teresa - I don't think you're making your point very well either. You're implying that because many people are having hard financial times, book authors - the people who work for months or even yea..."What is the cost of producting the product? logically speaking how much do you expect to make with time put in .. profit is based on sales..correct.. now your are saying months of work..previously you mentioned hours of entertainment..please clarify the point..we need to spend more..or you need your product to start at a higher price because seeing it at a lower price may hurts your ego.
Christopher wrote: "Tressa - as always, I feel the best way to discover great indie or traditional work is word of mouth. I trust my friends and Goodreads contacts more than any number of Amazon reviews :)"And the only way that starts is by someone taking a chance. Are they more likely to take a chance at a lower price? I think so. I may be wrong though!
Christopher wrote: "Tressa - as always, I feel the best way to discover great indie or traditional work is word of mouth. I trust my friends and Goodreads contacts more than any number of Amazon reviews :)"Oh, I trust my HA/GR peeeps more, too. I really don't read Amazon reviews. I work at a library and do get to read reviews of books in publishing publications, which do tend to give a little more weight on whether or not I'm apt to enjoy a new book. And even if I do look at online ratings, as Walter mentioned here, it's all up to leverage and how the excellent/good/mediocre/awful reviews average out.
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No, but ebooks are supposed to be cheaper. With no dead trees, costs are supposed to be lower.
And, yes, it does mean everyone tightens their belts in a bad economy.
David wrote: "Christopher wrote: "And the only way that starts is by someone taking a chance. Are they more likely to take a chance at a lower price? I think so. I may be wrong though! ..."Definitely. I hope no one gets me wrong in thinking that I don't appreciate all the free/low-priced stories by new authors I have access to. And I have taken chances and been pleasantly surprised along with disappointed.
David - I agree, which is why I support giving away the first book or story in a series and charging a fair price for the rest. It allows people to get a feel for the author and decide whether the style is to their taste, and then the author can earn a fair wage for the rest of their work.
I'm glad you've had some good surprises, Tessa! I think it's also about managing your expectations, as a writer I mean. To be honest every time someone buys one of my books, I feel like running around, shouting about it. A fair wage would be nice, Christopher, but for me its going to be a while until I start thinking about that.
Christopher - I'm a bit behind the thread now. I'm yet to do it, but if you want to make something free on Amazon, you need to give it away in other stores - Kobo etc. and Amazon will price match it.
Christopher wrote: "I get sad when I see so many people refusing to pay more than $2.99 for an indie novel. Mass market paperbacks cost anything between $5.99 and $9.99 in the US, and are frequently terrible. In Austr..."Sorry christopher I reread the thread I was not understanding. Not a great idea to read when in a bad mood..lol
I think many people don't think of writing as a business. When I went from being an employee to starting my own masonry business, I took a substantial pay cut. In fact, my first few years I didn't turn a profit. I certainly felt my work was worth much more than my meager income, but it took time to build a reputation and clientele. Now that I am established, people know what to expect from me and are willing to pay a fair wage. As an Indie writer, I am approaching it the same way. I intend to deliver the best product I can for the cheapest price possible, and hope that one day I will reap a reasonable financial benefit. If not, that's okay too. The fact that someone besides my mother and my wife is actually enjoying my writing sends a thrill up my leg!
I agree Matthew. I also think indie publishing works well when you have a few books and can start giving things away. That way people know roughly what they're buying and can judge if they think your price is worth it or not.
Matthew wrote: "I think many people don't think of writing as a business. When I went from being an employee to starting my own masonry business, I took a substantial pay cut. In fact, my first few years I didn't ..."Great attitude! Very similar to my own.
Christopher wrote: "David - I agree, which is why I support giving away the first book or story in a series and charging a fair price for the rest. It allows people to get a feel for the author and decide whether the ..."I agree (even if you were replying to the other David, LOL). Offering freebie promos on my first book has produced good results for sales of the series. I've taken it off KDP Select now, but plan to offer it for free everywhere else and get a price match. Currently offering a free coupon code for Smashwords, in case anyone wants one. :)
Tressa wrote: Had no idea about Amazon's generous return policy for horrible books. Will have to look into that.As best I recall, Tressa, you have seven days after purchase to return an ebook to Amazon.
No idea how many times a customer would have to do that before Amazon started taking umbrage, though.
By now Amazon would probably ban me from their site.
Yes, it's seven days. I've no idea if there's a set number or perhaps a percentage of books bought that triggers a return for refund not being allowed.
There's been maybe two or three threads (perhaps more) on the Kindle forum where a poster was either asking or griping about not being able to return a book. But it was pretty obvious from what they'd written that they'd essentially been using Amazon as a digital lending library, and abusing the return policy.
It's basically intended for accidental purchases or if the editing or formatting was at an intolerable level. Objectionable content that you'd had no warning about on the product page. Things of that nature. I've only used the option a couple of times and while they don't require a specific reason, there is a drop-down list to choose from or a place to give additional feedback. I think...it's been a long time since I opted to do so.
You wouldn't be banned from purchasing or posting, however. The fact that the folk were still posting proved that. The Return for Refund option would simply disappear from books on the Manage Your Kindle page. I think some still managed to get a refund if they called or otherwise contacted CS.
There's been maybe two or three threads (perhaps more) on the Kindle forum where a poster was either asking or griping about not being able to return a book. But it was pretty obvious from what they'd written that they'd essentially been using Amazon as a digital lending library, and abusing the return policy.
It's basically intended for accidental purchases or if the editing or formatting was at an intolerable level. Objectionable content that you'd had no warning about on the product page. Things of that nature. I've only used the option a couple of times and while they don't require a specific reason, there is a drop-down list to choose from or a place to give additional feedback. I think...it's been a long time since I opted to do so.
You wouldn't be banned from purchasing or posting, however. The fact that the folk were still posting proved that. The Return for Refund option would simply disappear from books on the Manage Your Kindle page. I think some still managed to get a refund if they called or otherwise contacted CS.
It sounds like a tolerable policy, particularly since so many books offer the 'Look Inside!' feature. Doesn't mean a book that begins well still can't disappoint, but it does allow one to seperate a considerable amount of the wheat from the chaff.
Actually, I'm not quite sure what I think about them having the return policy. The post was meant to be simply informational.
I returned a kindle book I bought on accident. Even though I only used it once its definitely a plus in Amazon's favor for me. The B&N nook doesn't offer anything like it. Sure, there are always people who are going to abuse any system. But it seems like they would be pretty easy to catch.
For some reason I almost never use the sample options. I have bought books that I loved the first few chapters and hated the rest. And there are books that have become favorites (Kushiel's Dart was one) that I hated the start of. So I tend to ignore it.
For some reason I almost never use the sample options. I have bought books that I loved the first few chapters and hated the rest. And there are books that have become favorites (Kushiel's Dart was one) that I hated the start of. So I tend to ignore it.
David wrote: "Christopher wrote: "Tressa - as always, I feel the best way to discover great indie or traditional work is word of mouth. I trust my friends and Goodreads contacts more than any number of Amazon re..."No David, you're absolutely right. It's much easier to take a chance on a book that's $$0.99-$5. I've bought quite a few $0.99 reads by authors I don't know. if I like the look of the book I buy it as it's only $0.99. I wouldn't be able to do that if kindle books were all priced at $10 or more.
Unfortunately you can't really glance through an ebook, the way you can a physical copy. Some books start out slowly, then improve. Some are better in the beginning, then deteriorate -- either due to a lack of editing or a writer who does not know how to sustain a tale.
There have been instances of folk purchasing ebooks who had used the "Look Inside" or sample option -- only to find that the author had chosen a financial shortcut and only had the first 10-30% edited. This is a genuine ripoff in my opinion and should be returned. Along with posting reviews warning off other potential customers. So it's not that I don't appreciate Amazon giving folk the option. I just don't tend to use it, regardless of my impression of the book. I'll just chalk it up to my having made a mistake and delete it.
Before it folded, fictionwise was actually my go-to site. Prior to the end-stage B&N's purchase, the membership advantages made it much more appealing. Still, I wound up creating folders for the ebooks with titles like Reread, Okay, Pathetic and Below Pathetic. My bad, as far as decision-making went, and there were no refunds given. Many had brief excerpts, also frequently misleading. Put on your best face, try to make it more appealing. Valid sales tactic, though not a good way to build repeat customers.
After that, I checked for reviews. That was where I went so wrong. I was unaware (dreadfully naive, actually) of the games played with reviews and review sites.
I'm a great deal more cynical now.
ETA: "Books" being sold which turn out to be very short, with no mention made on the product page also falls under the heading of fraud and should be returned, with emphatic warnings. I'd complain to Amazon, not just return it in that instance.
There have been instances of folk purchasing ebooks who had used the "Look Inside" or sample option -- only to find that the author had chosen a financial shortcut and only had the first 10-30% edited. This is a genuine ripoff in my opinion and should be returned. Along with posting reviews warning off other potential customers. So it's not that I don't appreciate Amazon giving folk the option. I just don't tend to use it, regardless of my impression of the book. I'll just chalk it up to my having made a mistake and delete it.
Before it folded, fictionwise was actually my go-to site. Prior to the end-stage B&N's purchase, the membership advantages made it much more appealing. Still, I wound up creating folders for the ebooks with titles like Reread, Okay, Pathetic and Below Pathetic. My bad, as far as decision-making went, and there were no refunds given. Many had brief excerpts, also frequently misleading. Put on your best face, try to make it more appealing. Valid sales tactic, though not a good way to build repeat customers.
After that, I checked for reviews. That was where I went so wrong. I was unaware (dreadfully naive, actually) of the games played with reviews and review sites.
I'm a great deal more cynical now.
ETA: "Books" being sold which turn out to be very short, with no mention made on the product page also falls under the heading of fraud and should be returned, with emphatic warnings. I'd complain to Amazon, not just return it in that instance.
Mary wrote: "Unfortunately you can't really glance through an ebook, the way you can a physical copy. Some books start out slowly, then improve. Some are better in the beginning, then deteriorate -- either d..."I find it baffling that any author would employ such tactics. It seems so short sighted, especially as getting rich off just one book is such a hard thing to do. It's sad that people want to rip off readers in such a way.
Michael wrote: "I find it baffling that any author would employ such tactics. It seems so short sighted, especially as getting rich off just one book is such a hard thing to do. It's sad that people want to rip off readers in such a way. "
Oh, I do so agree that it is shortsighted. Also duplicitous and moronic, in my opinion.
And frankly, I do not consider them to be authors. A true author gives a damn about the quality of what they have created, and the reputation they've built with both their works and their actions.
And apologies for the brief foray onto soapbox status. It's a hot-button issue for me, but I'll not continue to derail the conversation.
Oh, I do so agree that it is shortsighted. Also duplicitous and moronic, in my opinion.
And frankly, I do not consider them to be authors. A true author gives a damn about the quality of what they have created, and the reputation they've built with both their works and their actions.
And apologies for the brief foray onto soapbox status. It's a hot-button issue for me, but I'll not continue to derail the conversation.
Michael wrote: "Mary wrote: "Unfortunately you can't really glance through an ebook, the way you can a physical copy. Some books start out slowly, then improve. Some are better in the beginning, then deteriorat..."That makes no sense at all. Can Mary offer one example. I would buy it just to see it. I have read a bunch of poorly/un-edited eBooks, with a grain of salt. Hell, I didn't get an editor until I had sold 10K eBooks myself, but mine were not riddled with errors to begin with. Typos and minor errors, yes, and more than a few reviewers detracted a star for lack of editing, but I was a total newbie. Eventually I bucked up and got a pro (Felicia A. Sullivan) to revamp all three books. BTW, I highly recommend her services.
You shouldn't have to make the purchase yourself.
I gifted one of the ones that stood out for me. As I mention in my message to you, it is not simply a matter of spelling and such.
The beginning promise sank under the weight of plot points that a decent editor should have caught.
I'm not putting the name of the book or the author on this thread. If you choose to do so, that is up to you.
Regards,
Mary
P.S. Gifted instead of loaned because I'd purchased it years back from Fictionwise, not Amazon.
I gifted one of the ones that stood out for me. As I mention in my message to you, it is not simply a matter of spelling and such.
The beginning promise sank under the weight of plot points that a decent editor should have caught.
I'm not putting the name of the book or the author on this thread. If you choose to do so, that is up to you.
Regards,
Mary
P.S. Gifted instead of loaned because I'd purchased it years back from Fictionwise, not Amazon.
@David:
Hm...might wind up asking if you'll loan it to me at some point. I just selected it from the product page without looking further, then went back because I was curious about the publication date. The version I'd purchased was from 2007. The author wound up publishing it on Amazon in April of this year.
Just noticed two things, one from the Product Description:
(This is a rerelease of an earlier edition with extensive editing and rewrites)
And then this on the From the Author bit:
The book has been re-edited for content, spelling and language.
Hm...might wind up asking if you'll loan it to me at some point. I just selected it from the product page without looking further, then went back because I was curious about the publication date. The version I'd purchased was from 2007. The author wound up publishing it on Amazon in April of this year.
Just noticed two things, one from the Product Description:
(This is a rerelease of an earlier edition with extensive editing and rewrites)
And then this on the From the Author bit:
The book has been re-edited for content, spelling and language.
Mary wrote: "@David:Hm...might wind up asking if you'll loan it to me at some point. I just selected it from the product page without looking further, then went back because I was curious about the publicati..."
Thank you so much, Mary. Problem is that you gifted it to my author email, not the one I use for Amazon/Kindle. I suggest you "return" or cancel the purchase and grab it for yourself. I am sure the first edition was worse than the current one. :)
Oh, dear.
My apologies, David.
Thank you for being so gracious.
My apologies, David.
Thank you for being so gracious.
Jonathon and (the other) David, I don't think you should discount your work too much. The 99 cent realm is only valid if you want to be a dime store pulp fiction writer. Do you? If you are writing GOOD books, actual novels, go for the $2.99 platform and let your work prove itself. My only 99 cent offering is virtually unknown. My $2.99 and $3.99 novels earn $ every day (at 70% royalties, instead of 30%). Do the math. If your work is good, it will sell itself. (But use KDP Select Freebies to get noticed and/or promote a series). IMHO
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