Horror Aficionados discussion
Authors, What Do You Feel When You Read Negative Reviews of Your Books?
I would never rate a book 1 star for the price, but I have lowered my rating for it. I don't consider myself cheap (though, does anyone?), but paying for 20 digital pages (or less) is big pet peeve of mine.
I have a question, is .99¢ the lowest a book can sell for? Why? What is the reason? Why can't a book be .25¢ or .50¢? I know its only $1 but most short stories aren't worth it.
I have a question, is .99¢ the lowest a book can sell for? Why? What is the reason? Why can't a book be .25¢ or .50¢? I know its only $1 but most short stories aren't worth it.
Traci L. wrote: "I have a question, is .99¢ the lowest a book can sell for? Why? What is the reason? Why can't a book be .25¢ or .50¢? I know its only $1 but most short stories aren't worth it.The vendors (Amazon, BN, etc) establish the base price that you can charge. My guess is it's due to their distribution costs for the books. I agree that short stories are not usually worth the price. I think more authors should wait until they have enough for a collection.
I would never pay a buck for a short story.
I agree. I would expect a single short story to be used as a lead in to an author's other work.
I'd pay between $0.99 and $2.99 for a lengthy novella, however.
I appreciate all the reviews I get. With that being said I don't like reviews from those who've never read the book/story. I'm sad to report that that very thing has happened to me here on Goodreads. I got several reviews from people who admitted they haven't read my work. I don't really like that, but be aware that it's happening.
I'd pay $2.99 for a lengthy novella from an author I've been reading for years, e.g.—Jack Ketchum, Blake Crouch, Jeff Strand. But normally would not for a non-established indie author. I've been burned the times I have paid several bucks for these books.
I think I could forgive an author who responds to a review in the heat of the moment. I'm sure it must be pretty distressing to read negative comments about something you worked hard on.However, something I will not forgive, is an author supporting disgusting sites such as STGRB. There is no excuse for this. This site has listed people names, addresses, places of work, etc all because readers have posted bad or negative reviews.
This is blatant harassment and any author that supports this site loses my support for life.
Traci L. wrote: "I have a question, is .99¢ the lowest a book can sell for? Why? What is the reason? Why can't a book be .25¢ or .50¢? I know its only $1 but most short stories aren't worth it. ..."Yes, 99 cent is the minimum price on Amazon (with the author receiving 35 cents). Books can be posted for Free on Smashwords (and elsewhere if they meet Premium standards), but even they charge 99 cent minimum for paid books. It has to do with processing costs for payments, etc...
I agree that most 99 cent short stories are a rip-off. I have suggested to other indie authors that they combine several shorts into a minimum 20K word anthology for 99 cents and some of them have taken that advice with reasonably good results.
My only 99 cent offering was a 30K word intro teaser for my first book. Voyage of the Dead Introductory First Look has sold hundreds copies since December 2011. Meanwhile I've sold thousands of the full 100K word edition, Voyage of the Dead, at $2.99 -- plus thousands more of the sequels, Flotilla of the Dead and Deluge of the Dead at $2.99 and $3.99 respectively.
Of course my 99 cent offering is actually included in the full edition and I warn buyers as much in the description, but I think $2.99 novels (or anthologies) do better than most 99 cent shorts or novellas anyway. Most readers want to get what they pay for: 99 short stories are too expensive, while 99 cent novels are too cheep and devalue the work of the author. Authors need to find a balance between over and under pricing. It should be calculated on a combination of length, quality and popularity. IMHO.
BTW, I saw an extreme case of overpricing today. A 32 page sci-fi "book" for $7.50 on Kindle (same as the print price) by an unknown author. When questioned he said the publisher set the price! Huh? Who would go to a publisher with a 32 page short? That is probably a good candidate for 99 cents, but nobody will ever know at the current price!
Right, Kate. One doesn't even have to write a mean our bad review to be listed there. Just asking for authors not to spam is reason enough.
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I'd pay way more than $0.99 for some of my favorite short stories. In magazines like Twilight Zone you'd receive 4-6 short stories priced for around $0.99 a short. That price point has been around for a long, long time. Amazon could lower pricing down to pennies a transaction or batch process and charge for buying bulk credits. There have been several micropayment processors that have tried to provide payment processing for pennies (Bitcoin comes to mind, but they're plenty others).
I suspect the $0.99 price point will eventually be lowered in lieu of a model like Bitcoin. Customer buys X amount of credits for a $1 from Amazon and then can use credits to make micropurchases. I also suspect that these micropurchases would have more restrictive crediting policies to prevent abuse but that's a whole other can of worms.
Once the bar is lowered, however, you'll see shorts going for less than a buck, guaranteed. The new low price for short stories instead of $0.99 will be whatever the lowest price is in the micropayment model (sometimes a fraction of a penny, when the price of a credit is less than $0.01 USD).
Publisher 'greed' isn't the only reason pricing is the way it is now for short stories. Not sure how many reading know this that aren't Amazon KDP publishers but here's how it works.
If an Amazon KDP publisher wants to offer a short story for free outside the Amazon Prime program known as KDP Select, the process at Amazon currently requires to price it at the minimum $0.99 until the other markets are recognized as competition at 'FREE' and then Amazon will throw their switch to turn the story free. As David mentioned above, the standard KDP publisher does not have the ability to throw a switch and make non-KDP select titles free (or less than $0.99)
Those publishers willing to make their title exclusive to Amazon, can make their titles 'free' a limited number of times per quarter as part of the Amazon KDP Select program.
However, that's not a very good deal for Amazon Prime customers receiving a short story versus a novel as their only free title of the month, so that can lead to unhappy customers too.
UPDATE: Actually flattr.com works closer to what Bitcoin used to be like. The basic concept is that there is something that allows the purchaser to purchase something for a tiny amount of money without having to pay 3-5% + per transaction costs that are required by most credit card and debit purchases. You can see the real moneymakers in smaller purchases are the processors, not the creators and/or publishers or even stores (like Amazon).
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It's like paying for a library card.
We might agree when it comes to books, Jon, but it's great deal for those who do a lot of Amazon shopping (save $$ on shipping costs) and/or those without Netflix who want to stream movies.
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Absolutely, Todd.
But I just saw someone explaining how Prime pays for itself if you read 12 books worth more than $7 each every year on another thread.
You know how that kind of defective thinking spreads on the Internet.... ;)
Jon, I would say that depends.Example, where I live (and I realize policies vary amongst public libraries), if our library system doesn't carry a given book, the only way to get a copy via the library is through Interlibrary Loan. But here, that costs $3 a book (the charge, I was told, is collected in order to cover postage to mail the book).
Now, if one is fortunate enough to have access to a library that doesn't charge for Interlibrary Loans, that makes Amazon Prime less compelling (though there are books available only as ebooks, so it can still be worthwhile).
Mod
Example, where I live (and I realize policies vary amongst public libraries), if our library system doesn't carry a given book, the only way to get a copy via the li..."
That's just wrong.
That was probably me, Jon. Not sure why that constitutes defective thinking, though.Our public libraries charge $3 for a book obtained via Interlibrary Loan, but let's assume for a moment that they didn't, and that I could get any book I want sans fees. Let's also assume that it's available at exactly the time I want it, amd that it's available in a timely manner. I still have to drive to the library and pick it up. For some folks that may be the most minor of inconveniences, but much more of a chore for others who may not have reasonable access to transportation, or other significant problems.
Now, as I understand it, one can check out ebooks from libraries, which is something I plan to investigate (though my understanding is that only a limited numbers of ebook 'copies' are made available at any one time). I'm guessing though that loanable ebooks are most likely limited to books from traditional publishers, so one still couldn't get a lot of the small press/independent/self-published stuff that way.
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I pay my money, I keep the book.
And I am certain those authors among us fortunate enough to count you as one of our readers salute you for it. :)
I download all my books..much cheaper and easier.. I thought about prime but it doesn't seem to apply for digital books unless you borrow but there are so many books out there and many are free ..so why bother.. some people are very weird.. example .. charlaine harris last book of the series..all say its terrible 300 pages over 12.00 ..why bother?
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I do what I can or I do without!
It's the real American Way!
That's a fair point regarding short story pricing online. Would I buy a collection of 4-5 stories for $4-5? If I wanted it, sure and I wouldn't think it was overpriced. Though, it is still $1 for each story. And if it was a short story I love, I would gladly pay that amount.
By the way, I'm considering any story under 30 pages as a short story. I'm not talking about novellas. My biggest issues are the indie short stories selling for .99¢, publishers selling classic short stories for high prices (I recently paid $3 for a 23 page story), and publishers (mostly of young adult books) selling prologues and missing chapters. I bought one so-called missing chapter for .99¢ and it turned out being around 10 pages, the rest of it was a sample of the book the chapter belongs to. Why would someone buy the missing chapter if they hadn't read the book yet? They wouldn't. Not to mention most young adult books already sell for $9 or even more (both paper and ebook). This is the sort of behavior I'm tired of.
By the way, I'm considering any story under 30 pages as a short story. I'm not talking about novellas. My biggest issues are the indie short stories selling for .99¢, publishers selling classic short stories for high prices (I recently paid $3 for a 23 page story), and publishers (mostly of young adult books) selling prologues and missing chapters. I bought one so-called missing chapter for .99¢ and it turned out being around 10 pages, the rest of it was a sample of the book the chapter belongs to. Why would someone buy the missing chapter if they hadn't read the book yet? They wouldn't. Not to mention most young adult books already sell for $9 or even more (both paper and ebook). This is the sort of behavior I'm tired of.
I got caught up in that .99 download with another chapter every 4 weeks.. I stopped at the 3rd. It really pissed me off.. you can get a good 1st book of a series for free or .99 and they are at least 200 pages.
It's an experiment for me, Teresa. I'm looking for a way to minimize expenses, what with all the book club reads I'm trying to do. I figure that if I read a book and like it, I can always purchase a permanent copy. If I don't like it, well, the author still collects a fee, since the Kindle Lending Library pays its authors whenever a book is 'loaned' (fees can vary, but typically come in at around $2 a book, which is close to what many authors with traditional publishers earn on a hardback sale).I just signed up for the 30 day free trial today, so I don't know yet whether or not it'll be worth it in the end. Amazon is also competing with Netflix through Prime, so in addition to borrowing ebooks you also get access to their film and tv library as a Prime member. No idea what kind of value it is, but as a Netflix subscriber (I'm a stockholder too), I know Amazon is a commited competitor to Netflix, so I figure it can only be so bad.
walter I read 2-3 books a week. The most I'll pay is 8.00 .. Most I get either free or .99-2.99. Prime tend to give about a 1.00 off a book and you can borrow 1 book a month. I pay cable and have a nice t.v so tend to watch movies that way. You can get jack kilborn , tim curran free. plus new writers out there .. Unless your that person that has to read the "in" books .lol
Mod
20-100 pages = short story
100-300 pages = novella
300-400 pages = short novel
400+ = a book
Priced accordingly.
Authors, feel free to send your complaints to Stephen King.
haha..Jon I always assumed a novella was 80-180 pages
LOL. Jon, I aim for 100,000 words for each of my "books". Comes out to around 300 pages (estimated by Amazon), but I use the "Mad Formatter" to compress them to about 265 for paperback. That saves cost on printing and I pass it on to the buyer. However, my next release (later this month) will be almost 300,000 words (over 800 pages). It's the edited trilogy eBook edition of the first three books in the series. That will be priced at $5.99 (40% off the list price of the individual eBooks). I hope that will qualify as a "real book" for you. ;)
If its a well thought out, articulate and intelligent critic who gave the book a fair chance....I'm actually usually very interested to hear and understand why they didn't like it. Often they can point out flaws I never noticed before and I respect their opinions, even if I disagree with them.What boils my blood are the unintelligent, amatuers who barely read the book, or outright dismiss it due to some petty triviality *cough....many Goodreads reviewers....cough*
I see so many reviews here who rate a book one star and they only read maybe 15 pages of it....or they one star rate it because the author is a Democrat or a Republican or a Christian or an Atheist or some stupid reason. Professional negative criticism I welcome with open arms; monkeys at typewriters spewing their fecal opinions I loathe.
That monkey at the type writer invested time reading your book and can say say whatever they want about it. I'm sorry, but that came off very anti reader.
Mod
I'm sorry, but that came off very anti reader."
Well, you did miss the point.
Criticism is acceptable, on any level.
Attacking a person's beliefs is not.
No matter what side the attacker stands on. You don't like what a person believes, you don't read his books, and you don't "review" them.
Amazon removed one of my reviews from a book because of complaints made by people who attacked the idea of the book without reading it, then began attacking me.
Grammar Goebbels wrote: "If its a well thought out, articulate and intelligent critic who gave the book a fair chance....I'm actually usually very interested to hear and understand why they didn't like it. Often they can p..."Good points. In fact most of the few 1 star reviews on my first book came from people who stopped reading after a single conversation in which the characters talked about the unnamed President being incompetent. Well, it wouldn't be much of an apocalypse if the President could deal with it, would it? LOL. Nevertheless, I took those reviews to heart and realized that most of the "offensive" dialogue was not critical to the storyline. With that in mind, I (and my editor, Felicia Sullivan) removed most of the "offensive" dialogue in the revised edition. I realized that there was no need to offend any portion of the target audience.
You see, my books do have a moral theme about people taking care of themselves and others when the government fails miserably. The people who already feel that way seem to love the books, but those who could get the most out of such ideas were the ones being offended.
But I must admit that those politically motivated negative ratings on Amazon (many from people never rated anything before, or only gave negative reviews) were a bit hurtful. Truth be told, I'm an independent from Malibu, but I've been accused of writing "a GOP campaign pamphlet touted as zombie fiction." That was a review by someone who admits they didn't even buy or download the book! LOL.
I tend to think in terms of word count. This comes from back in the Jurassic era, when high tech was an electric typewriter and manuscripts submitted to an editor had to be typed double-spaced (so the editor had room to write notes and comments). At that time, two manuscript pages might equal one book page, so you can imagine what some of Stephen King's manuscripts must have looked like.Prior to software calculating word counts, when editors wanted (i.e., demanded) a word count estimate, you figured it - IIRC - by considering five characters as a word, then dividing an average-length line by five (this when you never justified a margin, even in the early computer days), then multiplying that average word length per line by the average number of lines per page, then multiply that by the number of pages in the manuscript.
I think most outfits (like SFWA) still categorize awards for things like short story, novelette, novella, etc., based on word count, since page counts vary depending on the font, line spacing, etc.
I agree, Jon. Attacking the author themselves is wrong, and I would never do that. Criticizing the work is another thing altogether.
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Criticizing the work is another thing altogether."
I know you wouldn't, Charlene.
Others, I'm not so sure.
Walter wrote: "That was probably me, Jon. Not sure why that constitutes defective thinking, though.Our public libraries charge $3 for a book obtained via Interlibrary Loan, but let's assume for a moment that th..."
In Westchester County NY our library system has many e-books that u may borrow. You may borrow the e-book up to 14 days. They also have books that you can download and listen to. Also, for what we call "Real" books, if they don't have the book you want, you put a hold on it and they call you when it arrives so you may come pick it up. You also get to choose which library you would like to pick it up from. It is all free.
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And no publicity is a death knell.
Charlene wrote: I'm sorry, but that came off very anti reader."
.....I honestly fail to see how my comments were "anti-reader."
When I review a book, I finish the whole thing, even if I already know I'm going to dislike it. How else can I write a fair and honest review of an author's work if I abandoned it halfway through...or even earlier like a goodish amount of people do? I also try to distance myself from the author's personal life so my own prejudices and beliefs don't cloud and bias my judgement. I identify as a Democrat, but I would NEVER just go out and rate Dean Koontz one stars because he is a Republican.....I rate Koontz one stars for entirely different reasons hehe ;)
But no, I'm not anti-reader, just anti-idiot.
Charlene wrote: "That monkey at the type writer invested time reading your book and can say say whatever they want about it. I'm sorry, but that came off very anti reader."
I agree, Charlene.
These are the type of comments that put me off reading an authors work. I hope this is a case of miswording as I don't want to start feeling alienated from authors.
Personally I don't review anything unless I've read it but if a reader has invested any time or money into a read it's their call.
Kate wrote: "Charlene wrote: "That monkey at the type writer invested time reading your book and can say say whatever they want about it. I'm sorry, but that came off very anti reader."
I agree, Charlene.
Th..."
....how are these comments off putting? Good Lord people all I meant was I don't like it when a reader reviews a book they obviously did not put time into or they give it a low rating due to some beef they have with the author themselves? There was no malicious intent here, sheesh!
This is the line that came across as offensive:
What boils my blood are the unintelligent, amatuers who barely read the book, or outright dismiss it due to some petty triviality *cough....many Goodreads reviewers....cough*
It makes it sound as though you don't believe any "amateur" reviewers should be reviewing. And most of us here aren't professionals. It may not be anti reader, but it does sound anti Goodreads.
Though, I'm willing to accept it as a misunderstanding.
What boils my blood are the unintelligent, amatuers who barely read the book, or outright dismiss it due to some petty triviality *cough....many Goodreads reviewers....cough*
It makes it sound as though you don't believe any "amateur" reviewers should be reviewing. And most of us here aren't professionals. It may not be anti reader, but it does sound anti Goodreads.
Though, I'm willing to accept it as a misunderstanding.
I don't have a problem with an honest reviewer who doesn't finish a book. But rating a book after one chapter is a bit harsh. And, I know some people do it, but I don't think it's right to review or rate a book that you have not read, or ever will read. But I stay away from political books and authors, so I like a warning of which ones to stay away from.
That is not how you worded it though is it. You used 'unintelligent amateurs' and 'monkeys at typewriters', that's what I have an issue with. To me, that is offensive.I agree that authors should not be attacked for their personal beliefs but I can only be responsible for my own behaviour not anyone else.
I think that as a writer you need to be able to put your book out in the world and let people say what they want. I read a comment on here that said it's no longer yours once you send it out into the world. I agree with that. I accept that not everyone will like what we write. Some people express their own bitterness at life in a review, even professional reviewers, and I think most intelligent consumers recognise a valid and well thought out review compared to a rant.
When I buy a product I look at the one star reviews and discount half of them because their complaints don't apply to me. I think it's a bit cringeworthy when a writer tries to defend themselves, although I do understand why they would want to.
Michael wrote: "I think that as a writer you need to be able to put your book out in the world and let people say what they want. I read a comment on here that said it's no longer yours once you send it out into t..."Yep. That was my comment. Once a reader buys your book it is THEIR BOOK to love or hate, cherish or burn, praise or defame. It took me a while to realize that and I still feel a slight surge of emotion if a bad review pops up, but any serious author needs to come to grips with that reality. If your work is good enough, it will stand on its own merits. If not, write something else or do something else. :)
Edit: BTW, there are some books that appeal to a small audience who LOVE it, while the masses might hate it. The old "Anarchist Cookbook" jumps to mind as one, but there are many more examples. An author should not necessarily bend or break before a flood of negative reviews.
As the old saying goes, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."Which is what the beginning of any book is. The reader has given you the opportunity to knock his or her socks off. Which even talented and/or best-selling authors sometimes fall short of. The thing is, if one's name is Stephen King, or Neil Gaiman, or (insert your favorite author here), the reader is far more likely to cut you some slack than if your name is Lucius Ledbedder. (Um, there isn't a famous writer by that name I'm unaware of, is there?)
I've read more than a few authorial responses to negative critiques complaining when the reviewer says he or she was unable to get past a certain point, with the author saying that's unfair. Now, if the reviewer was negatively judging the work as a whole when the whole hadn't been read, that's one thing. But if the reviewer is upfront in admitting that he or she couldn't continue reading beyond chapter one, then that's legitimate.
What really matters isn't whether or not a writer gets one of those kinds of reviews, or any kind of negative review. What matters is the overall ubiquity of them. Robert McCammon's Boy's Life has one star reviews, but it's a question of relativity, of how many of them he has versus how many four and five star ones. And if your work's reviews are split 50/50, but it's a monster best seller - like Fifty Shades of Gray - then feel free to laugh at your detractors all the way to the bank in your chauffeur-driven limousine.
But if most of the reviewers are saying the same thing, whatever that may be, then what they're saying might merit consideration, particularly the more of them there are saying it.
I agree, Walter. If there are several reviewers who spot the same problem, then there might just be a problem! This is why I loved going to creative writing workshops. It was a fun dynamic where people could point out things about my writing that I had missed. Of course, there were many writers in the workshops who egos were so huge that they could not handle criticism. One guy in particular made a comment that because none of the 25 of us saw the genius in his short story, we were all clearly stupid and he would no longer be showing up to class. I feel like some authors on Goodreads have a similar attitude. Their egos blind them to the fact that every writer has some room for improvement, and they attack negative reviews by calling people stupid because they don't want to admit that maybe their self-published novella wasn't God's gift to literature after all.
Horror Aficionados
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Yes, writers are invested in their books (their babies), but once you put it out in the world for people to BUY, it is not really yours any longer. The buyer (even of freebie downloads) is the new "owner" of your baby. They are free to love, like, dislike, or hate it - and to tell the world if they so choose.
I never really expected to get anywhere with my stories. I simply wrote what I would want to read, and I was a nobody. So I must say that the GREAT reviews (and fans) came as a surprise and fueled my continued efforts. The occasional bad reviews still sting a bit, but I'm more than happy with a 4 star average on my series.
I should add that I try to learn from the negative reviews too. Most of them stemmed from some political dialogue in the first book. After long consideration I saw that some of it was not really vital to the story, so it has been watered down in the revised eBooks and paperback editions. In other words, negative reviews can be constructive and help an author revise their work to satisfy a wider audience.
I'm still new to the game, but like to think I am learning. With 300,000 words published in 2012 and another 2 books planned for 2013 release, I hope to keep improving. Perhaps the best sign of success is that several other authors have asked permission to write their own books in my Sovereign Spirit Saga "universe." They say imitation is the best form of flattery, right?
If this perks your curiosity, my first book is Voyage of the Dead. And if you want to jump on it, message me for a free coupon code at Samshwords. Oh, and I prefer any review to none. :)