Horror Aficionados discussion
Authors, What Do You Feel When You Read Negative Reviews of Your Books?
I see them. They are like big red stop signs and it's worse when you see them in high profile books. It's like the author and their peeps didn't care enough about their work or the readers to really look over what they were publishing. Some self-published books have more speed bumps than a trailer park. It can really detract from a great story.
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Depends on the error. Commas and periods don't bother me. If a character morphs from a tall albino named Skippy Vanderhaven to a 300 lb. midget named Abercrombie Hamperdamp in a single paragraph, I get testy.
I ranted once in the last year with one of my GR friends about commas. They are important as they provide a rhythm to ones voice and they are pauses, a breath. Used at the wrong time they can disrupt the cadence, slow down an action scene, or make your writing more lyrical than was meant. I think it was with you, Jon. The writer had 15 on half a page. Totally overboard.
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Lol. I think you needed a couple of commas but I understand your. Need. Nay your passionate transcendance of those pesky little marks that have naught to do with a story but in its greatness may all of these things be aligned thus providing you with a worthy substance to be consumed by the currents of your mind and forever imprinted upon your psyche.
Jon wrote: I think it was and a finer rant I have yet to have ranted upon my person of course I have moved beyond the claustrophobic clutches of the comma and let my mental musings run wild and naked upon the page to enlighten the darkness of the over-punctuated masses yearning to be litHunter S. Thompson would be proud. :)
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Verily!
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Who?
Look it up, Jon. A journalist :) Going to bed. Night friend :)
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Good night, Nikki! :)
I do creative work professionally myself (and even some writing on the side) so I guess I am biased, but my bad reviews tend to go one of two ways - If I think there are real problems with a book, I always try to critique from the viewpoint of, "How would I have done this better?". That way, if the author or anyone else reads what I've written, my own ideas are on the line as much as the author's and he/she/they can take it as a constructive suggestion or as a stupid idea, as they please. The other style, which is rarer, is humor... because occasionally there are books that are just so bad that I can't think of any other way to deal with them than through gentle mocking.
Just a note on "formatting" - I think there is a mixup of terms here, which is what initially confused me. A typo of spelling problem is not a "formatting error" - it's a typo :) A formatting error would be where suddenly the font changed, or breaks in paragraphs where they don't belong, or suddenly everything is right justified or centered for a while...
I feel it is important to make a distinction between reviewing/critiquing an author's work (which is actually quite complimentary, showing the work made enough of an effect on you to analyze it more deeply), and reviewing/critiquing them as a person (which is rude and uncalled for under any circumstances).I would love to share some of my writing with the Horror Aficionados group and get some strong constructive criticism.
"Pacing seems a bit off - long stretches where not much happens, followed by sudden bursts of nearly incomprehensible action."
"Dialogue seems too on the nose - have characters show the reader what they're feeling, not tell them outright."
"Not too sure what you're saying with this passage - can you clarify a bit?"
These are examples of constructive criticism that I do not believe any writer is immune to, and should take as a friendly attempt at bettering one's work, not a personal jab.
If I have taken the time to read your work and have some thoughts on areas I didn't feel quite meshed with the rest, it's not meant as a "your work sucks and so do you!" type of acidity.
But when there's no real attempt to provide the author with the means to improve - and the comments are just meaningless derision - that is when it is insulting and unwarranted.
I'm sorry David. I just saw your post now. I posted a couple of the issues in my review. I will pull the book up and will send you a private note.
What do I feel? That it wasn't a good match :) As others have already stated, the reviews aren't for me, they are for other readers. I'm happy someone took the time to read and was willing to post a review. Yes, even if it's a negative review. The vast majority of readers don't post reviews :(
Bill, I hear you, man. As an author I try not to comment on any of my reviews. Won't say 'never' but it is extremely unlikely I'll ever comment.
Why? I don't feel it's my business to be there saying anything. If I'm asked a specific question about a story and invited to respond personally that might be an exception.
Back to Tressa's question.
I don't assume everything I write will be loved by every reader. That's an impossible goal. Rather, I try my best to write creative, entertaining stories that I would love reading. If I let something sit and come back to it and don't love it, then it will go back to the trunk where it belongs.
Braden wrote: "I feel it is important to make a distinction between reviewing/critiquing an author's work (which is actually quite complimentary, showing the work made enough of an effect on you to analyze it mor..."Very good advice. I'm going to remember this. I don't want to be insulting but constructive. I certainly don't want to bash an author.
David wrote: "Just a note on "formatting" - I think there is a mixup of terms here, which is what initially confused me. A typo of spelling problem is not a "formatting error" - it's a typo :) A formatting err..."I thought there were both. Details in PM.
I cringe, my facial expression slowly changes into a horrified look and I want to shake the person over and over. Thats putting it lightly. I mean ive been very vocal over this, I have had people be very negative on my book so much that theyve marked it to read in folder names of innappropriate nature, Oh Macabre Masterpiece your rep is still safe with me. Some people shouls either think before they write or just dont write at all, authors have feelings too. If reviewers are negative but also positive Im fine with it, its those who are nasty and straight up negative that really upset me.
My thoughts on bad reviews in general, my thoughts on other people's thoughts on bad reviews, and my reactions to my first two bad reviews are the focus of my blog post this morning. http://shaunhorton.blogspot.com/2013/...
Basically, you can't write a book everybody will like. You can't keep your book out of the hands of people that it's not meant for, and you can't stop them from voicing their opinion on it.
My bad reviews hurt, no bones about that, but I consoled myself by looking up one-star reviews of books I like and that are fairly well appreciated. It just goes to show you that there will always be people who don't like everything.
I like my bad reviews, if they are written well. I like being entertained.
It's always disappointing when I get a negative review, but sometimes there are things within them that I can learn from. A few people didn't like the way I ended High Moor, so I tried to make sure that I tied things up a little more in the sequel, while still laying the groundwork for the final book in the trilogy, for example.However, its also important to understand the context of the review. I had a couple of bad ones last year that came from "friends" of an author that felt badly done by when I made it into the preliminary ballot of the Bram Stoker awards and they missed out. Those ones I quite happily ignored because I wasn't prepared to get into a flame war and give that bitter "other author" the publicity and sympathy that they were trying to generate by starting it.
To date I've garnered two one star reviews. One on Amazon, one on B&N, both for the same story. I'm positive I'll get more. I like them though because I feel I've touched the reader in such a way they had to respond to my work. Which tells me I did my job as a writer.
To be honest, if a negative review bothers you as a writer, maybe you need to find another line of work. Writers have to have a thick skin. Not everyone is going to like what you've written.
To be honest, if a negative review bothers you as a writer, maybe you need to find another line of work. Writers have to have a thick skin. Not everyone is going to like what you've written.
They are what they are. Mostly, in the modern scheme of things, they can be ignored. You look (if you're looking) for the reviews from people you've never heard of - who obviously READ the material - and have something real to say...you can "connect" with a review, just like anything you read. Most of them leave me with a fast busy signal (lol)
A writer needs a good review now and again, to keep up their self esteem. A writer also needs a negetive review, or critique, to remember to learn more about their craft, and to work towards becoming a better writer. No matter how many books have been written, a writer can always improve on a piece. There is no such thing as perfection- only the journey to become better.
I just add their name to my revenge list and then sit in the dark sharpening my axe. And gently weeping.
Clark wrote: "I just add their name to my revenge list and then sit in the dark sharpening my axe. And gently weeping."
took the words right out of my mouth!! :)
took the words right out of my mouth!! :)
Jon Recluse wrote: "Kate wrote: "Michael wrote: "I never read reviews. What's the point? 1) I've already written it, what do I care what they say?
2) Based on reviews I've read of other authors, most people who le..."
Good point. If they took the time to read it and made it all the way through, kudos to them, and whether they liked it or not doesn't really matter.
Years ago, when my main line of work shifted away from photography and more to writing, I just stopped writing any negative reviews. Of course I rarely wrote one anyway because I believe art, as writing is, to be incredibly objective. While there's plenty of books out there deserving of ridicule, I just don't want to waste the energy complaining about someone's else's work. (I'll save that for society destroying reality TV) Conversely, after reading a piece I really enjoyed, be it a formulaic crime novel or a genre heavy horror story, I really enjoy letting people know. I simply am not going to read four hundred odd pages of something and the whole time be ticking off a list of stuff I didn't like in my head, saving it to list later in a review. My advice to new writers out there is NEVER respond to a negative review. It's better to keep the separation. And don't write any scathing reviews either. Everything you write is saved somewhere. If you ever make it big, do you really want a review out there you wrote maligning another writer's work? It won't play well.
I've been fortunate to get mostly positive reviews throughout my writing life, but I occasionally get those "meh" reviews. I try not to dwell. Generally, I will thank readers who say positive things... Less than positive, I keep my mouth shut. Taste is subjective, right?
I haven't had more than 30 reviews and maybe 50 ratings in total - while most have been favorable to stellar, some have been very, very bad. My first thought is always, "Okay then, you crappy little punk, let's have a look at YOUR book," and then go all Norman Mailer on the motherhumper. But, of course, I simply don't respond. You can't.The bad reviews tend to be short and dismissive: I tend to think that these individuals didn't really even read that much of the book. But, hey, I'm no Tolstoy - I'm a glorified hack, a B-horror author with a knack for dialogue and description. I probably deserve some bad reviews, aha.
Honestly, I completely ignore book reviews. Everyone has a different taste in books. There have been books were I did go back and noticed them having bad reviews but I personally loved them.
Sometimes I pick a book because of a bad review. If what the reviewer doesn't like about it is something I would. I bought one book because the reviewer was disgusted by the level of violence. (It was Prince of Thorns - and I actually didn't think it was that violent. Lol.)
I rarely love a book that has way too many negative or so-so reviews. There's usually a good reason for this. I am equally suspicious about all 5-star reviews, especially for indie/self-published works. But if a book has been reviewed by hundreds of people and they clearly state the reasons they rated it 4-5 stars, then I have a good feeling about the book, even though there are some 1-2 star ratings on the book. But I would never completely ignore book reviews. Avid readers love sharing their opinions with others. It's why GR exists.
I suspect the more 4-5 star reviews a given work has, the greater the odds are that they're genuine, though I've no idea where the breakpoint might be. But some folks have quite a few friends and family members to call upon, so that number could get quite high.And of course a review from someone like Charlene or Jon will carry more weight than from someone with only one or two comments in the Goodreads forums. :)
Walter, I've seen ratings that are ONLY 5-star. Sorry, I don't buy that when the best writers ever don't do that well. And when I read the story and it's a 3 star at best? Then I'm suspicious. Charlene and Jon are always genuine in their ratings/reviews, although I haven't always agreed with them and vice versa.
Books with only five star ratings/reviews should be viewed with a jaundiced eye, no question.I suspect though, at some point, we're going to see a reverse tactic, faked reviews for books whereby the 'reviewer' castigates the book but does so in such a way as to make both the review and the reviewer look foolish at best, malicious and spiteful at worst, in an attempt to gain sympathy (and sales) for the writer.
One thing I've noticed re: reviews is that when there's little to no investment on the part of the reader, the resulting reviews are a bit more likely to trend negative than if the reviewer's a paying customer. (Example: books won in a giveaway.) The tendency to place less value on something we get for nothing is a common human trait (though not ubiquitous by any means).
I judge books by the reading time spent on them more than how much I paid for them. Time is more important than money to me. If I read a short story or novella and I enjoyed it, I will usually give it a 4 or 5 rating. A longer book needs to work harder for that 5. And I am less likely to read an independent book that is over 300 pages. There are too many books I want to read already.
I don't take into account how much I paid for a book when reviewing it. How much it cost may play a part in determining whether or not I buy it, but that's about it in my case.However, a book that I paid good money for that sucks? I would tend to be angrier in my review, than if I hadn't paid a lot for it, if that makes any sense.
I, too, have chosen to read a book based upon bad reviews. (If it's too violent, has too much swearing, is too scary, that's the book for me!)
I love to hear differing opinions on a book, usually.
I also love discovering new authors and don't have a TON of extra money to spend on books. So independent authors have been great for me. I've been able to afford to read a lot more books than I otherwise might have been. (Though that's changed a bit since I quit smoking!) Every indie book has not been great, but there have been a few that were so excellent, that I know I will be reading works from these authors a lot more in the future. That makes me happy. :)
Walter wrote: "Books with only five star ratings/reviews should be viewed with a jaundiced eye, no question.
I suspect though, at some point, we're going to see a reverse tactic, faked reviews for books whereby ..."
Are you saying that if a reviewer pays for a book the rating tends to be higher than if they received it for free? I tend to see the opposite. Especially for advanced copies - I don't trust advanced reviews as much as others.
Nothing (good or bad) would effect my rating more than a half point. But a half point can make a difference.
But I agree with Charlene - if I pay money for a bad book I'm more likely to be mad about it. And it will probably affect my rating. I paid 99¢ for 20 pages (if that) once and I'm still mad. It was a known young adult author too - not an independent.
I suspect though, at some point, we're going to see a reverse tactic, faked reviews for books whereby ..."
Are you saying that if a reviewer pays for a book the rating tends to be higher than if they received it for free? I tend to see the opposite. Especially for advanced copies - I don't trust advanced reviews as much as others.
Nothing (good or bad) would effect my rating more than a half point. But a half point can make a difference.
But I agree with Charlene - if I pay money for a bad book I'm more likely to be mad about it. And it will probably affect my rating. I paid 99¢ for 20 pages (if that) once and I'm still mad. It was a known young adult author too - not an independent.
Traci wrote: Are you saying that if a reviewer pays for a book the rating tends to be higher than if they received it for free?Yes, that's what I meant. Though I should have included the caveat that this was/is an anecdotal observation, based on my own experiences as well as those of other self-published authors whom I've discussed the matter with (as opposed to a legitimate survey or the like).
Now, it does make sense to me that the more money one pays (relative to what one gets), the greater the disappointment if the book falls short. But since most of us self-published types don't charge anywhere near what the traditional publishers do, it could be that this skews our perceptions on the subject.
I can't stand when someone gives a high rating to a book out of guilt because they got it for free in a giveaway. What difference does that make? Surely authors don't want pity ratings.
Many pubbed authors I know certainly do want pity ratings or friendship ratings or swap ratings or anything that will bump their average up or get their book more attention. In all fairness, I don't have a book out, but if I did, I might feel this way, too. It doesn't matter how long you've slaved over your book, how many CPs loved it, your agent and editor love it -- if you can't stir up word of mouth, it won't sell, and then few will ever read it...
Word of mouth is what sells a book. And that's really all a review is, a word-of-mouth testimonial available to its given audience.But for every review someone actually takes the time to sit down and write, there are numerous other readers behind the curtain, quietly recommending the book to members of their family, friends, co-workers, the next-door neighbor raising free-range chickens in his back yard . . .
So while there will be the occasional pity review, or purchased review, in the end I believe their effects will prove to be minimal. With a few rare exceptions, that is, such as celebrities or other famous people tweeting things like: "Bowling for Donuts is the bestest book I've ever read!" Paris Hilton
How to take criticism was really the only thing I learned from my creative writing courses (beside how to cough up a class-acceptable literary short story overnight). I'm a glutton for feedback now, positive or negative so long as it's constructive, so... Is it too weird to contact a reviewer privately to discuss their impressions? I really want to know but it feels like running at someone with a lamprey mouth going 'I want to suck the sweet experience from your brain!'. Sigh.
H. wrote: "How to take criticism was really the only thing I learned from my creative writing courses (beside how to cough up a class-acceptable literary short story overnight). I'm a glutton for feedback no..."I think it's a little weird. Frankly, I've received messages from authors who wanted to discuss my positive reviews of their books, and it sort of turned me off of them. It was just uncomfortable. I already gave them the validation of a positive review, so my job as a reader was done. I wasn't interested in stroking their ego even more when I could spend that time reading or writing other things.
H. wrote: "How to take criticism was really the only thing I learned from my creative writing courses (beside how to cough up a class-acceptable literary short story overnight). I'm a glutton for feedback no..."
Personally I get turned off by that sort of contact by authors. Especially when I haven't read the book yet. I don't like to be asked to read or review books. And I don't even review any books anymore. My enjoyment here is strictly as a reader, and as a reader only. I think if you (or any author) want that sort of feedback, it needs to be an established agreement beforehand. Or someone you know - offsite or onsite. I'd be more acceptable of an author I "know" (from here or elsewhere) asking my opinion than an author I don't.
Personally I get turned off by that sort of contact by authors. Especially when I haven't read the book yet. I don't like to be asked to read or review books. And I don't even review any books anymore. My enjoyment here is strictly as a reader, and as a reader only. I think if you (or any author) want that sort of feedback, it needs to be an established agreement beforehand. Or someone you know - offsite or onsite. I'd be more acceptable of an author I "know" (from here or elsewhere) asking my opinion than an author I don't.
Interesting, Traci. "I think if you (or any author) want that sort of feedback, it needs to be an established agreement beforehand. Or someone you know - offsite or onsite. I'd be more acceptable of an author I "know" (from here or elsewhere) asking my opinion than an author I don't."
I'm curious when do you go from not "knowing" somebody to knowing them online? In some ways I think that level of familiarity is best reserved for those you've exchanged some sort of real-time exchange (perhaps multiple emails, text messages, phone and/or face to face meetings versus back-and-forth responses in these forums), but that's subjective as it gets. Some might say they "know" somebody once they've exchanged one email discussion or response on twitter.
I've been here for a couple years now and while I have a casual familiarity with several regulars (Tressa, Jason, Jon, Charlene, Kimberly, Nikki, Bill, Gatorman, and if I keep naming names somebody I don't mention is going to feel left out so sorry in advance :( ) I don't feel--beyond reading tastes, perhaps--I really know any of these people and vice versa.
That's not meant as a pejorative, it's just the nature of online relationships in 2013. Scary thought of the day? Imagine where we'll be 25 years from now ;)
I know opinions on the definition on an 'online friend' would be different from person to person. But I would never read a book from someone who randomly chooses to contact me and I have no idea who they are. But if someone is active in the group and they join in discussions and group or buddy reads, I probably would. I don't care so much about how many friends I have befriended or pm or emails or such. I believe you can judge most authors from what they post. An author who joins and begins to talk about their book in every post is someone I'm going to ignore.
I agree with you on the "knowing" point, actually. But I also think it's great that people from so many different places (both physically and other) can find a common interest with others that in normal circumstances they never would have known. You know? There's both good and bad online. I guess only time will tell.
I agree with you on the "knowing" point, actually. But I also think it's great that people from so many different places (both physically and other) can find a common interest with others that in normal circumstances they never would have known. You know? There's both good and bad online. I guess only time will tell.
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Ditto."
Me too, I see them but it really makes no difference to me if the book is good :)