Ivy Tree Chapters 1-5

[Diane Lynn]

Hannah wrote: "Two paragraphs in on Chapter 1, and this line captured my attention. THIS is why I love Stewart's descriptive prose so much:

Ahead of me, ridge after ridge running west, with the Wall cresting ea..."

Very observant, Miss Marple!

[Hannah]

Diane Lynn wrote: "Very observant, Miss Marple! ..."

Thankee!
It just seemed like something (view spoiler)[our Mary/Annabel might conjure up (hide spoiler)]

[[deleted user]]

Hannah wrote: "Diane Lynn wrote: "Very observant, Miss Marple! ..."

Thankee!
It just seemed like something [spoilers removed]"

So she did!

[Misfit, Moderator]

Gawd, you ladies are killing me with the spoiler tags. Barely on chapter three and don't dare look at any of them.

[[deleted user]]

Sorry, Misfit! :( Once you get a little further in, you won't want to put it down...

[Diane Lynn]

Misfit wrote: "Gawd, you ladies are killing me with the spoiler tags. Barely on chapter three and don't dare look at any of them."

Sorry, Misfit! I'm starting chapter 7 and don't dare look in the next discussion section, but I sure am tempted. Enjoying the book and the company:)

I take it then, this is not a re-read for you.

[HJ]

Hannah wrote: "Two paragraphs in on Chapter 1, and this line captured my attention. THIS is why I love Stewart's descriptive prose so much:

Ahead of me, ridge after ridge running west, with the Wall cresting ea..."

Lovely photo! This book is one of the reasons why I was keen to visit Hadrian's Wall. And (view spoiler)[what a good spot with the description! I've never noticed that, despite having read the book several times. (hide spoiler)]

[Misfit, Moderator]

Just finished chapter five. Wonderful guesses on who is whom.

[Laura Anne]

I found the audiobook online and decided to get in a few chapters while I was still at work.

But when I tried to find where I had left off in my print copy, I discovered that both my paperback and my hardcover omnibus are abridgements! So far, two chapters were merged into one and another chapter is missing. There is also an additional plotline/twist that is mentioned across multiple chapters: (view spoiler)[Annabel was pregnant with Con's lovechild and left the country out of shame of being an unwed mother! (hide spoiler)]

Does anyone know if this is a UK vs UK edition edit or 1st edition vs all subsequent editions?

[HJ]

That plot twist is in my UK Kindle version, if that helps. How annoying for you to find that they are abridged! My source for audiobooks is Audible UK, and they don't have any unabridged Mary Stewart.

[Debbie]

I'm up to Chapter 3...this one will be slow going for me...the print in my book is so tiny my eyes get tired quickly.

When I read the bit of ballad at the beginning and saw "the oak and the ash, and the bonny ivy tree," I thought an ivy tree was a special type. Went to google it so I could picture it in my mind....discovered an ivy tree is simply a tree that is covered with ivy. Silly me...I've seen plenty of those! =))

[HJ]

Debbie wrote: "When I read the bit of ballad at the beginning and saw "the oak and the ash, and the bonny ivy tree," I thought an ivy tree was a special type. Went to google it so I could picture it in my mind....discovered an ivy tree is simply a tree that is covered with ivy. Silly me...I've seen plenty of those! =)) ..."

I always forget, too! It's wonderful when the ivy flowers in autumn as a late feast for the bees, which it only does when it's grown that large. She describes the ivy tree of the title in chapter 5.

[Hana]

I'm loving it so far. I suspect I read this one a long time ago, so I'm guessing where this is going but it's still fun. Mary Grey is an interesting character as is the situation. The dialog--inner and outer--is ambiguous enough so you can't be sure who Mary is.

It seems pretty clear who the villain is (or is meant to be): "He was looking just about as friendly and as safe as a black mamaba." Could that be misdirection?

[Hana]

I like that scene about the 'singin' hinnies'--first of all the wonderful name, but also that it adds to the mystery. Mary is either a gifted actress or (view spoiler)[ she's not who she says she is; (hide spoiler)]; either way she's really smart and very quick on the uptake.

How about the speed with which she adopted the conspirators' plan? Is that just poverty and desperation speaking? I can believe that pretty easily, but still it makes her seem a bit amoral.

[Debbie]

It certainly did not take her very long to become convinced, did it?

When Mary and Connor are talking before they go into the house, she mentions a book called Count Hannibal. I always wonder if books mentioned in other books are real so I always check.....sure enough it is real: Count Hannibal: A Romance of the Court of France and is available free online at Project Gutenberg. Guess what just got added to my Gutenberg titles list? =))

Here is the beginning:

M. de Tavannes smiled. Mademoiselle averted her eyes, and shivered; as if the air, even of that close summer night, entering by the door at her elbow, chilled her. And then came a welcome interruption.

“Tavannes!”

“Sire!”

Count Hannibal rose slowly. The King had called, and he had no choice but to obey and go. Yet he hung a last moment over his companion, his hateful breath stirring her hair.

“Our pleasure is cut short too soon, Mademoiselle,” he said, in the tone, and with the look, she loathed. “But for a few hours only. We shall meet to-morrow. Or, it may be—earlier.”

[Hana]

What a great find, Debbie! I love these serendipitous literary discoveries :)

[Debbie]

Me too, Hana! I just hope the rest of the story is as intriguing as the first sentences....what a way to jump into the middle of things right from the start....ha!!

[Hana]

It really is marvelous. I'm loving the twisty plot and the ambiguous characters!

[Debbie]

I've just read a bit in Chapter Four where she goes into the kitchen....I want a kitchen like that! And the part where she realizes all of a sudden that what she is doing is real and not "some Oppenheim plot"....E. Phillips Oppenheim....he wrote tons and they are fun light mysteries. I've read a few and want to read more. Wonder who else I will meet around The Ivy Tree? =))

[Hana]

I'll have to try some Oppenheim.

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator]

Great Count Hannibal quote, Debbie! Being aware of things like this really adds to the reading pleasure.

It's been many years since I read this, but I do remember the main plot. So it's interesting to reread it from that perspective.

I do NOT understand the plot twist in the different edition that Laura mentions in the spoiler in message 59. Maybe there will be something more on this in Spoilerland.

[Debbie]

Well, Tadiana, you made me so curious I looked at Laura's spoiler after all... I had kept myself away from it till now, but I had to know. And then I looked back through what I've read (I'm barely to the end of Chapter 4...that tiny print is a pain!) but I didn't pick up on anything like that. In the very first chapter Con told Mary (view spoiler)[ "I was going to marry her....She left the country rather than marry me." But that does not sound like the reaction of someone in the other spoiler's condition, at least not to me. (hide spoiler)] I wonder if I just have not read far enough yet to get to the twist, or I'm not seeing it, or it simply is not in my edition? Weird!

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator]

That twist isn't in the regular edition, and knowing the entire story, I just don't see how it can fit in. Very odd.

[Debbie]

HJ in message 60 says it is in her edition on the UK Kindle. But I'm curious...why would an author allow two different versions of a book to be published? Just putting myself in a novelist's shoes, I would want my original words to be in all editions. I would not want anyone to change them depending on which country the book would be published in. Maybe the author does not have that much control after the actual writing...that seems rude, doesn't it.

[Karlyne]

Tadiana wrote: "That twist isn't in the regular edition, and knowing the entire story, I just don't see how it can fit in. Very odd."

I don't see how that could possibly fit in with the plot. At all!

[Laura Anne]

I finished listening to the UK version and (WARNING! Major spoilers for the rest of the book!) (view spoiler)[it turns out to be a false story. After Annabel left, Con told grandpa that she was pregnant and he had offered to marry her. When Lisa is prepping Mary to be Annabel, she repeats the story to her. Mary says she can't play the part of a woman who has lost a child (be it through a miscarriage or giving it up for adoption) and opts to tell grandpa that she was mistaken and was never really pregnant. As a reader, it did cross my mind midway through the book, that Adam would turn out to be the baby-daddy and it sent Con into a jealous rage. But Mary/Annabel eventually reveals that Con was just telling lies about her. (hide spoiler)]
Here is the part in the audiobook when Lisa tells Mary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ2ak...

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator]

Thank you, Laura! I was so completely mystified as to how that plotline could fit in. Less than 50 pages to go in the book . . .

[HJ]

I do find it odd that this was changed in some editions. I can just about understand changes which accommodate the different view some countries have about cousins marrying (in Touch Not the Cat) but to change this plot point seems bizarre, and completely unnecessary. Spoiler question for Tadiana: (view spoiler)[in your edition, Tadiana, what does Lisa tell Mary was the real reason that Annabel left that night? (hide spoiler)]

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator]

HJ, Lisa just tells Mary (view spoiler)[that Annabel left that night because she had some kind of "dreadful quarrel" with Con and then had a terrible argument with her grandfather as well. Lisa says she doesn't know what the arguments were about. (hide spoiler)]

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator]

I attached this in a comment to my Ivy Tree review that I posted this morning, but I thought it would be helpful to put it in this thread as well. "Singin' hinnies" are a type of scone or griddle-cake with currants, popular in Northumberland. "Hinnie" is a variation on "honey" (as a term of endearment), and the "singing" is the sizzling sound they make as they're fried.



Cute, huh?

[Karlyne]

Tadiana wrote: "I attached this in a comment to my Ivy Tree review that I posted this morning, but I thought it would be helpful to put it in this thread as well. "Singin' hinnies" are a type of scone or griddle-c..."

I've actually made these! The recipe is in a little cookbook I have, and I need to go make them again right now...

[Debbie]

Those look really good!! Love the name!

I'll be graduating to Chapter 6 in a few minutes! Laughing a bit just now at the way Mary is (view spoiler)[ so scared of the horses in the paddock. I wonder if her excuse of a bad fall in the States will help. If you used to be a horse person and now you aren't, people notice big time and wonder about it. (hide spoiler)]

[Karlyne]

Debbie wrote: "Those look really good!! Love the name!

I'll be graduating to Chapter 6 in a few minutes! Laughing a bit just now at the way Annabel/Mary is [spoilers removed]"

Absolutely, Debbie!

[Karlyne]

Tadiana wrote: "I attached this in a comment to my Ivy Tree review that I posted this morning, but I thought it would be helpful to put it in this thread as well. "Singin' hinnies" are a type of scone or griddle-c..."

We made singin' hinnies this morning and they were so good I thought I'd share the recipe (before I fall over from eating too many- although I didn't keep up with the skinny 3 year old!)

4 T lard (I use butter)
2-1/2 C flour
1 rounded tsp salt
2 tsp baking powder
4 T sugar
6 T currants or raisins
3/4 C half & half (I usually need closer to 1 cup because it's dry here)

Start griddle on medium low heat (I use a cast iron one).

Mix the butter into the dry ingredients with your fingers and then stir in the fruit. Make a well in the center and add the cream, gently stirring with a wooden spoon until incorporated. Turn out onto a floured surface and knead gently just a couple of times. Pat out into a rectangle, about 1/4" thick. Prick all over with a fork. Cut into triangles (or squares or both).

Cook 4-5 minutes on each side (golden brown). They'll "sing" or sizzle as the butter melts inside.

Serve hot and let everyone fork split them and add butter.

[Karlyne]

Oh, and to be fair, although I've changed it a bit, my original recipe came from A Little English Book of Teas by Rosa Mashiter.

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator]

Thanks so much, Karlyne! My only hesitation in making these is the currants--my family won't do stuff with raisins in it, and I'm worried currants might meet with the same upturned noses. Hmm. I bet a substitution of chocolate chips would meet with enthusiasm. :D

[Carolien]

I've taken the advice to heart and read Brat Farrar first. Couldn't remember whether I had read it and definitely couldn't remember the plot. Turned out be a lovely reread, but I'll now start The Ivy Tree.

[HJ]

Carolien wrote: "I've taken the advice to heart and read Brat Farrar first. Couldn't remember whether I had read it and definitely couldn't remember the plot. Turned out be a lovely reread..."

So glad you enjoyed it! It's one of my favourite books. Hope you enjoy The Ivy Tree too.

[Karlyne]

Tadiana wrote: "Thanks so much, Karlyne! My only hesitation in making these is the currants--my family won't do stuff with raisins in it, and I'm worried currants might meet with the same upturned noses. Hmm. I be..."

I think dried cranberries or cherries would be superb, too! Liam said to be sure to tell you that he wants to try these with brie and ham in the middle (and, I'm guessing, the butter, too). For a three year old, he has remarkably sophisticated tastes!

[HJ]

These ideas sound sacrilegious to me! I can't imagine anyone putting anything other than butter on or in them... They're a sweet pastry, no-one would dream of putting something savoury in them.

[Karlyne]

HJ wrote: "These ideas sound sacrilegious to me! I can't imagine anyone putting anything other than butter on or in them... They're a sweet pastry, no-one would dream of putting something savoury in them."

Oh, I'm not saying that we're not odd. It's just that sweet and savoury are two of our favorite combinations. But, that's not an American thing; we're considered odd here, too.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

I'm hoping it's OK that I check in here - really late, both in terms of group read & I'm part way through to Chapter V11.

I'm loving the pictures!

Singing hinnies look like our pikelets, except we don't put dried fruit in them! Tadiana, I think currants would be an ever harder sell than raisins.

Like Carolien, I have read Brat Farrar & found that helpful.

How I feel about the characters twists & changes. Excited to keep reading!

Annabel/Mary smokes like a chimney - even by Stewart standards!

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator]

Hi Carol! We're always happy to see additional comments on the book discussion threads, no matter the timing. :)

My family hates raisins in stuff, but yeah, I see your point. Maybe chocolate chips? Lol.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Tadiana ♕Part-Time Dictator♕ wrote: "Hi Carol! We're always happy to see additional comments on the book discussion threads, no matter the timing. :)

My family hates raisins in stuff, but yeah, I see your point. Maybe chocolate chips..."

Or plain & they can choose what to put on top. A dab of butter & a little jam?

Also I noticed Karlyne substituted butter. Perfectly acceptable. You can still get lard over here but I would just picture it sitting in my fridge forever if I bought some! (blech)

I'll try & be in synch with the chapter divisions before I make any more comments. I'm scared of saying something I read in the later chapters! :)

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator]

***Carol*** wrote: "I'll try & be in synch with the chapter divisions before I make any more comments. I'm scared of saying something I read in the later chapters! :)"

That would be great, but don't sweat it too much. :) And yes, the smoking is cray-cray in most of Mary Stewart's novels, but that was the time. I just finished another book written about the same time, in 1960, Death in the Andamans, and there's so much smoking it's like an additional character in the novel! Lol.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Ha there is an anti-smoking ad series on NZ TV where the cigarette is a character in the actors' lives. I'l go & check it on You Tube.

We had friends around for dinner last night & were talking about how much has changed with attitudes to smoking. My husband when we first met played rugby & I had to stop going to functions at his (airless) club rooms. I would literally be the only one not smoking & my eyes would be sore & streaming!

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mawj...

This is one of them. Let me know if it won't play outside of NZ & I'll delete it.

Tadiana, you fiend, you linked to a M M Kaye book! I'm trying so hard to get hold of her stuff! I can get The Far Pavillions as an audio, but I'm not fond of being read to.

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator]

My uncle used to smoke a pipe. For years, the health reasons against it weren't enough to get him to quit, but when smoking became frowned upon socially, he finally gave it up. I'm old enough that I remember working in restaurants and offices where there was tons of smoking. It always gave me a headache.

[Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽, Moderator]

***Carol*** wrote: "Tadiana, you fiend, you linked to a M M Kaye book! I'm trying so hard to get hold of her stuff! I can get The Far Pavillions as an audio, but I'm not fond of being read to."

Haha -- yes, a lot of M.M. Kaye fans are Mary Stewart fans, and vice versa. I never read any Kaye books until about a year ago. The Far Pavilions is definitely the best, but pretty heavy and lengthy. The "Death in ..." series are shorter murder mysteries, fun, light reading. I was lucky enough to find four of them at my local library. Trade Wind is also very good but the romantic relationship is a hard one to swallow, for very spoilerish reasons.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Yes, I'm still toying with the idea of starting a Group for 20th Century Writers we don't want forgotten. If there is already such a group can someonelet me know! I know as well as this one & the GH one there is a Norah Loft one but there are plenty more of those writers out there.