Lord of the Flies
question
Is LOTF a Warning About Fascism?
Monty J
(last edited
Apr 07, 2013 05:18PM
)
Apr 04, 2013 09:28AM
Let's just say that my personal experience has run the opposite of noblesse oblige.
In Lord of the Flies, a charismatic teenage sociopath, Jack Merridew, gains leadership over a group of marooned boys from elite British prep schools by murder and exploiting fear.
The worst atrocities of mankind have been the consequence of a wealthy ruling elite seeking ever more power, or resisting them in the case of the atomic bomb.
We know about the Nazi Holocaust. Pictures of "sword practice" beheadings of innocent civilians during the Rape of Nanking were celebrated in the Japanese press until their embassies were deluged with condemnation.
The British aristocracy profited enormously from slavery, the Boer extermination camps and ethnic cleansing. More currently, British intelligence about the Yellowcake Lie figured heavily in the invasion of Iraq.
Today a wealthy elite in America promulgates Randism, an elitist philosophy that undermines democratic principles.
I'm suspicious of a power elite (represented now in the American Republican Party) intent on weakening democratic government by dismantling regulatory controls designed to protect consumers by ensuring fair competition and preventing undue influence over commerce. The same party supports the ownership of military style assault weapons and expanded ammunition clips and resists background checks.
Fascism is around the corner. I don't know what Golding intended other than a rebuttal to the fluffy idealistic novel, Coral Island, but for me The Lord of the Flies is a warning about the threat of fascism.
In Lord of the Flies, a charismatic teenage sociopath, Jack Merridew, gains leadership over a group of marooned boys from elite British prep schools by murder and exploiting fear.
The worst atrocities of mankind have been the consequence of a wealthy ruling elite seeking ever more power, or resisting them in the case of the atomic bomb.
We know about the Nazi Holocaust. Pictures of "sword practice" beheadings of innocent civilians during the Rape of Nanking were celebrated in the Japanese press until their embassies were deluged with condemnation.
The British aristocracy profited enormously from slavery, the Boer extermination camps and ethnic cleansing. More currently, British intelligence about the Yellowcake Lie figured heavily in the invasion of Iraq.
Today a wealthy elite in America promulgates Randism, an elitist philosophy that undermines democratic principles.
I'm suspicious of a power elite (represented now in the American Republican Party) intent on weakening democratic government by dismantling regulatory controls designed to protect consumers by ensuring fair competition and preventing undue influence over commerce. The same party supports the ownership of military style assault weapons and expanded ammunition clips and resists background checks.
Fascism is around the corner. I don't know what Golding intended other than a rebuttal to the fluffy idealistic novel, Coral Island, but for me The Lord of the Flies is a warning about the threat of fascism.
Monty J wrote: "Let's just say that my personal experience has run the opposite of noblesse oblige.
In Lord of the Flies, a teenaged sociopath, Jack, gains leadership over a group of marooned boys from elite Bri..."
Why Fascism? The state of tribal tyranny on the island combined with sociopathic behavior is enough on its own as a statement of the problem with elitist tyranny without having to resort to equating it with fascism. The definition of what and what is not fascism are not a matter of simple definition. There is always a need for disambiguation when it comes the use of this highly charged term. It is another 'F'-bomb word.
Would it not be more accurate and in keeping with author Goldman's background to look Lord of the Flies(LOTF) as more of a condemnation of the British class system? The convulsions in England brought on by economic and social uncertainty post WWII and who would be responsible for 'rescue' or other outcomes of the changes seems a better fit for the analogies and euphemisms that Golding is referencing.
If the book was meant as a warning against some form of tyranny, present or future, one needed only to look a bit farther east from the British Isles. At the time of the publication of the book the East offered still existent totalitarian systems in Stalinism and in the convolutions erupting in Mao's China. But a fascism warning? I not buying it. Not even in Britain that in the pre-WWII years had flirted with Fascism as a possible form of government or as a political movement. It is too simplistic a jump in analysis to see the decay into tribalism (which is fundamentally different) as the path to 20th Century f(F)ascism. The 21st Century adds some wrinkles to this path we haven't fully appreciated at all
Then to conflate Randism with either the oppressive or elitist tyrannies of the others is a bit daft at best. Ayn Rand was about an individualistic form of behavior that doesn't fit in a group think. Those opposed to Leninist rooted political communism and the economic Marxist expressions are not by definition fascist. They are not even necessarily capitalists! I'm not a fan of Ayn Rand's formulations, but to lump her, a Russian refugee from a tyrannical system by definition, is to engage in a Big Lie.
The OP's(original poster) commentary quickly diverts from a discussion of LOTF to a diatribe (perhaps warranted) of the current world state of affairs. Waving the big scary flag of Fascism as part of the heading of a 'discussion' when not warranted in order to invoke a self-congratulatory condemnation of an unrelated problem, is propaganda.
Who were the masters of propaganda? Hmmm, Maybe the OP was right about a potential return to Fascism. But who are today's future fascisti driving the totalitarian trickery and disingenuous recreations of history?
In Lord of the Flies, a teenaged sociopath, Jack, gains leadership over a group of marooned boys from elite Bri..."
Why Fascism? The state of tribal tyranny on the island combined with sociopathic behavior is enough on its own as a statement of the problem with elitist tyranny without having to resort to equating it with fascism. The definition of what and what is not fascism are not a matter of simple definition. There is always a need for disambiguation when it comes the use of this highly charged term. It is another 'F'-bomb word.
Would it not be more accurate and in keeping with author Goldman's background to look Lord of the Flies(LOTF) as more of a condemnation of the British class system? The convulsions in England brought on by economic and social uncertainty post WWII and who would be responsible for 'rescue' or other outcomes of the changes seems a better fit for the analogies and euphemisms that Golding is referencing.
If the book was meant as a warning against some form of tyranny, present or future, one needed only to look a bit farther east from the British Isles. At the time of the publication of the book the East offered still existent totalitarian systems in Stalinism and in the convolutions erupting in Mao's China. But a fascism warning? I not buying it. Not even in Britain that in the pre-WWII years had flirted with Fascism as a possible form of government or as a political movement. It is too simplistic a jump in analysis to see the decay into tribalism (which is fundamentally different) as the path to 20th Century f(F)ascism. The 21st Century adds some wrinkles to this path we haven't fully appreciated at all
Then to conflate Randism with either the oppressive or elitist tyrannies of the others is a bit daft at best. Ayn Rand was about an individualistic form of behavior that doesn't fit in a group think. Those opposed to Leninist rooted political communism and the economic Marxist expressions are not by definition fascist. They are not even necessarily capitalists! I'm not a fan of Ayn Rand's formulations, but to lump her, a Russian refugee from a tyrannical system by definition, is to engage in a Big Lie.
The OP's(original poster) commentary quickly diverts from a discussion of LOTF to a diatribe (perhaps warranted) of the current world state of affairs. Waving the big scary flag of Fascism as part of the heading of a 'discussion' when not warranted in order to invoke a self-congratulatory condemnation of an unrelated problem, is propaganda.
Who were the masters of propaganda? Hmmm, Maybe the OP was right about a potential return to Fascism. But who are today's future fascisti driving the totalitarian trickery and disingenuous recreations of history?
I would honestly argue that the opposite case is likely. The recent attempts by Tea Party Republicans seems to me to be the last gasp of a desperate and dying political elite that has had to reach out to the fringe element in order to maintain any hold on power. But as time is showing, they are riding a hungry beast that they can't control but dare not dismount. They could still cause much harm, but I think that the world we now live in, permeated by new media and on the verge of much needed reform, will sweep them under.
At least, that's my hope. Because I think we've seen that the current crop of right wing politicians in the States is willing to crash the economy so long as it accomplishes their ends. After that, we could be looking at a resurgence of 30s style politics, with the far right poised for a seizure of power.
At least, that's my hope. Because I think we've seen that the current crop of right wing politicians in the States is willing to crash the economy so long as it accomplishes their ends. After that, we could be looking at a resurgence of 30s style politics, with the far right poised for a seizure of power.
As far as I saw it, and correct me if I'm wrong, the Tea Party was a middle class response to the financial crisis and bad economic trends - wages, jobs etc - that was corrupted by the radical right. And now it seems more of the Republican party is falling under its influence. Whether it is the roar of the dinosaurs in a crater or the awakening of a new beast, I'm not sure. Although, funnily enough that would appear to be similar to the boys on the island.
I don't think, however, Golding wrote that with the corruption of Weimar Germany in mind, which would've been the poster example of fascism in the 50s. I think it proves that deteriorations of human societies has many noticeable trends. I think Golding was aiming for a much bigger scope than simply fascism or any kind of political ideology. I think it was a general middle finger to humanity and what it's capable of.
I don't think, however, Golding wrote that with the corruption of Weimar Germany in mind, which would've been the poster example of fascism in the 50s. I think it proves that deteriorations of human societies has many noticeable trends. I think Golding was aiming for a much bigger scope than simply fascism or any kind of political ideology. I think it was a general middle finger to humanity and what it's capable of.
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