Clockwork Princess
discussion
How come Sebastian is all evil and Tessa is perfectly nice when they both have demon blood in them?
Taryn wrote: "Actually Jace is probably like that because of Will from TID. Come on... this is probably a Herondale trait. Seriously. "Really? Herondale's trait? All Herondales are supposed to be like that? What about Imogen? Stephen?
Seriously??
Taryn wrote: "And seriously... what's up with the WAS? Jace is still like this, but people love him for it. So what I'm trying to say is that your comment isn't really valid "I actually find your ever-reaction pretty interesting.
And seriously?? Well...seriously? Weren't you supposed to know why I wrote WAS?
Jace WAS - because he is no longer pushing people away. And his arrogant and sarcastic before was more of a disguise, to keep people away, to protect his heart.
DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT? (I don't find capital block fascinating, but you seem to like it, so I am serving you some words)
Natural Conception (between human+demon)Vs... Fetal Mutation (from demon blood injections)
Nurlely wrote: "Taryn wrote: "Actually Jace is probably like that because of Will from TID. Come on... this is probably a Herondale trait. Seriously. "Really? Herondale's trait? All Herondales are supposed to be..."
We don't know about them... Not really. Who knows how Imogen was before Stephan's death so...
And I don't think it's a coincidence that Cassandra Clare made Jace's personality EXACTLY like Will's so...
Nurlely wrote: "Taryn wrote: "And seriously... what's up with the WAS? Jace is still like this, but people love him for it. So what I'm trying to say is that your comment isn't really valid "I actually find your..."
He's still like that... Or haven't you noticed. Not as much as before but he still is. I don't get what you're so worked up about
I see you've caught a loophole in the storyline there!! Oh well, I still love her books.
Taryn wrote: "We don't know about them... Not really. Who knows how Imogen was before Stephan's death so..."
It was short, but based on what we can read, no one will call Imogen as witty or sarcastic.
Taryn wrote: "He's still like that... Or haven't you noticed. Not as much as before but he still is. I don't get what you're so worked up about "Interesting. I said that your reason is not valid due to what served in the book. You are the one who over-reacted. You just need to provide your facts, instead of getting on your nerves. Everything is about the book when it comes to discussion.
In case you refused to read my comment properly before, let me serve you again with my answer.
Jace now is not pushing everyone else away. And his sarcastic and arrogance now are not meant to cast people away anymore. He is embracing the love given by people now, a feeling he refused to acknowledge before.
Nurlely wrote: "Taryn wrote: "He's still like that... Or haven't you noticed. Not as much as before but he still is. I don't get what you're so worked up about "Interesting. I said that your reason is not valid ..."
Look... this is getting really annoying now. I don't come here to get into stupid arguments with people. You believe what you believe, and I'll believe in what I believe, alright? *SIGH* you're obviously one of those people who can't take in someone else's ideas. I'm just not gonna talk about this anymore cause you're obviously pissed off for some reason so...
Did you even pay attention to that part of the City of Glass book? The reason why he's evil and she's not. Is because he was injected with demon blood when he was still in his mother's womb. Which means he had normal shadowhunter blood which made them good. The demon blood erased the good in him and turned him evil. Tessa isn't evil because she's half demon half shadowhunter.
I feel like it’s more of the fact (is it a fact?) that Tessa is more warlock then a shadow hunter injected with Demon blood and thus corrupted. I mean Tessa is half demon, in comparison to Sebastian who us a full shadow hunter with invasive demon blood. Calling Tessa evil is like calling Magnus evil, and well all know that not true. So I guess the reason Tessa is good is because she was born half shadow hunter and demon, and was raised with morals, and has a choice and ideals,and dreams, an a family unlike Sebastian who was raised to be a monster, and had unnatural demon blood coursing through his veins.Sorry if someone already said this and I just totally repeated, I just kind of stumbled upon this discussion right now…
Andrea wrote: "I feel like it’s more of the fact (is it a fact?) that Tessa is more warlock then a shadow hunter injected with Demon blood and thus corrupted. I mean Tessa is half demon, in comparison to Seba..."Couldn't have said it better then what you just said.
Thanks, it's the best way I could explain it. Because clearly Sebastian is messed up, and Tessa is not.
Because Sebastian was raised by Valentine.
It's they way they received the blood and their upbringing. Sebastian received the blood in his veins because Valentine fed it to pregnant Jocelyn and it purposefully got into Sebby's blood. Tessa has demon's blood because her biological father was a demon. So it was naturally supposed to be a part of her since the moment she was conceived. Probably by being forced into Sebby's system the demon's blood had a certain negative effect that didn't appear in Tessa.And there's also their upbringings. Tessa was raised by her aunt in a loving and safe environment. She was not exposed to evil as a child, and certainly not forced to practice it. But Sebby was. Valentine raised him to be evil. Valentine wanted a weapon, and he turned his son into one. Sebby was shown only violence and cruelty. I believe Valentine was harder on Sebby then he was on Jace because Sebby had demon blood in him which caused him to have a more violent nature. Tessa's upbringing (both full of love and ignorance of the Shadow World) led her demonic and violent characteristics to be expressed, and her demon blood becomes apparent in other ways: the change. Which is something Sebby doesn't have.
Thirdly, although both Tessa and Sebastian's biological mothers were Nephilim, Tessa's mother was unmarked and totally ignorant of what she was. Jocelyn on the other hand, had been marked and trained. She was strong and skilled. The magic in the marks most definitely effected negatively with the demon blood in her unborn baby.
In my opinion, demon blood has nothing to do with why Sebby is angry (take note, I said 'angry' and not 'evil'). Sebastian became the way he is because of his family. Think about it. His mother left him, or at least that's how he sees it. When he was a kid, he asked his dad why she did that, to which he replied, "It's because of you. You're a monster." If you were in Sebastian's shoes, you would believe your own dad, right? (Cassie J made a comic strip of this, in case you don't know :])
And speaking of Valentine, do I really have to explain how he was such a great dad? Sebby spent his entire life trying to impress daddy, but what happens? Daddy chooses Jace, the little half-angel, goodie-two shoes orphan. As always. Isn't that a bit annoying?
Couple that with the fact that your father taught you everything about the world in topsy-turvy (with special emphasis on the whole 'To love is to destroy') and thus making your view of the world slightly different than other people plus knowing that your sister thinks of you as if you're the scummiest person alive and, oh yeah, said sister is dating the afforementioned half-angel, goodie-two shoes orphan.
I don't know about you guys, but if I was Sebastian, I would feel pretty angry at everyone that I would want to burn the world to ashes. Half-demon or not.
And as for Tessa, she grew up in love and security. Even if she lost her parents at an early page, she had her Aunt and Nate around. They weren't rich, yes, but Tessa was able to experience something that money can't buy: the warmth and security of a loving family.
Hope I helped :)
I think it's also that although Sebastian had Valentine as a father which would say it all, he was never really shown the love and compassion that Tessa received. Remember, Sebastian was taught that love destroyed everything whereas Tessa received and thrived for it as she had her Aunt prior to her death, her brother before he went utterly crazy and the Institute afterwards to give her hope she needed to carry on. Sebastian, however, had no one. He believed his mother sought him to be a monster and his father only saw him as someone who would carry out his plans after he died. I firmly believe that if he were to stop what he is currently doing by creating a new race of shadowhunters and allow Clary and Jocelyn to somehow care for him, he would know what he has missed out on. When Clary joined him and Jace in City of Lost Souls, I saw something in his character and made me believe that somewhere deep down, if he were given the opportunity, he would be able to love and be loved in return. After all, him showing care towards Clary when she was injured couldn't have all been a sincere-less act.
Clare wrote: "None of the warlocks are evil and they all have demon blood in them. Magnus isn't evil for example. Tessa isn't evil for the same reason I guess."Good point.
Rachel wrote: "Maybe their upbringing? Valentine was a horrible, evil father and that seeped into Sebastian's character. Tessa didn't have a great childhood exactly but it wasn't as bad as Sebastian's."Uh, nice try. Than how was Jace able to overcome his being raised by The Evil Valentine himself? Nature vs Nurture? C'mon, guys! There has to be a better answer. And besides, Tessa totally had a good upbringing. The only thing she lacked was money. So She was poor, but who says that just cuz her aunt was poor she didn't love her? And that's all a child really needs to develop into a decent person, not toys and pretty things. Money can't buy love.
I think the question is not whether or not the demon blood made Sebastian evil, after all, he too had angel blood that should have dominated the demon blood and neutralized the evil effect, the same way it did Tessa's. The question is what is the connection between him and Tessa? Why does it exist? How is it relevant to the why the stories in TIM and TID tie in together?
Angela wrote: "I think it has to do with what you constitute as a demon. Valentine injected so much demon blood into Sebastian that it made him a demon. He was also raised in a terrible way. He was made so that t..."I like your theory. Makes sense.
◄Catherine► wrote: "I believe no one is really born evil. It's always the situation that makes them become evil. Okay may be the demon blood did have effect on him. But I think it has more to do with the fact the he b..."I disagree. In the case of Sebastian, he was born evil. Additionally, people are often born with natural tendencies that influence the way they perceive things, either because of their genetic compilation or as a result of the events that took place when they were in critical stages of development, as did Jonathan/Sebastian while still in his mother's womb. Call it a sickness of the mind if you will, but their actions are often described as "evil". And you're forgetting that Jace went through the same upbringing, and save for his assholic tendencies, he turned out fine.
Something's missing. I can't wait to read the last book.
Wait....I think you are confuse....Sebastian is from the Mortal Instruments Series, while Tessa is from The Clockwork Angel series. Do you mean Nate (from Clockwork Angel)instead of Sebastian. Or do you mean Clarice (instead of Tessa)?
Ladynight wrote: "Wait....I think you are confuse....Sebastian is from the Mortal Instruments Series, while Tessa is from The Clockwork Angel series. Do you mean Nate (from Clockwork Angel)instead of Sebastian. Or ..."
No, we mean Sebastian and Tessa.While they are different series its the same world/concept/idea just different times.
Clare wrote: "None of the warlocks are evil and they all have demon blood in them. Magnus isn't evil for example. Tessa isn't evil for the same reason I guess."this is EXACTLY how i explained it to my friend.
Tessa was born part demon naturally, and brought up in a loving a nurturing household. Sebastian was unnaturally turned part demon. Not to mention the fact that he was brought up to think that the only good thing in life was destruction.
FantasySheBeast999 wrote: "Clare wrote: "None of the warlocks are evil and they all have demon blood in them. Magnus isn't evil for example. Tessa isn't evil for the same reason I guess."this is EXACTLY how i explained it ..."
i wouldn't go that far by saying that there are no evil warlocks. i'm just saying that maybe there are evil warlocks, it's just that we haven't met them yet :)
FantasySheBeast999 wrote: "Clare wrote: "None of the warlocks are evil and they all have demon blood in them. Magnus isn't evil for example. Tessa isn't evil for the same reason I guess."this is EXACTLY how i explained it ..."
What about the Mrs Black of the Dark sisters?
Mrs Dark is an Eidolon demon but Mrs Black is a warlock.
Carmela C.G. wrote: "And speaking of Valentine, do I really have to explain how he was such a great dad? Sebby spent his entire life trying to impress daddy, but what happens? Daddy chooses Jace, the little half-angel, goodie-two shoes orphan. As always. Isn't that a bit annoying?"I might have missed this part while reading TMI but when did Valentine chose Jace over Sebastian?
Valentine focused on creating another powerful shadowhunter when he considered Sebastian a failure. He wanted a perfect shadowhunter to be his army, but Sebastian ended up to be all evil. Thus came Jace, his next 'creation', a baby 'taken' from his death mother. Valentine cut Celine to get to Jace. No love was ever involved in that, or in Jace's upbringing.
When Valentine considered Jace as too 'weak' he even let Jace go to be taken care by others. Jace was only 10.
I don't think demon blood makes you evil. You still have a choice. You MAY be more inclined to violence, hatred, etc if you have demon blood, but there is always a choice, and Tessa makes the choice to be good, while Sebastian chooses evil.
i think she is good because of who she is.also she had love from ever corner and facet of her life. sebastian was directionless and was depraved of love, he turned to darkside which possessed him to do evil things.
I really don't understand why Sebastian has to be evil. Sure he has demon blood but so does all the downworlders...how can Clary and all her friends defend the rights of the downworlders but hate Sebastian for having demon blood. And Clary keeps saying that her brother is barely human...Sebastian is not a good person of course, but I sympathize him of being raised by a twisted-logic-father and hated by his own mother. I hope Sebastian can be redeemed and being loved by Clary as a brother in the end.
Nurlely wrote: "Carmela C.G. wrote: "And speaking of Valentine, do I really have to explain how he was such a great dad? Sebby spent his entire life trying to impress daddy, but what happens? Daddy chooses Jace, t..."I would like to believe so, I basically agree with what you said.
but Cassandra Clare keeps emphasizing what a evil/unhuman creature Sebastian has been from the moment he was born and how Jocelyn had hated Sebastian and cried over the fact that Valentine ruined her chance of having a human baby...that's confusing and disturbing.
How could a baby be evil? That only indicates Cassandra didn't want us to think Sebastian have a choice, or that she's letting us know Jocelyn is the worst mother ever, who blames her baby for what her baby had no power with.
Cassandra better explain in CoHF, or this would remain a real bug in the series.
I think it's just one of those weird fantasy world rules that if you are born a warlock you aren't inherently evil but if you are born as anything else with demon blood injected into you then you are evil, because then it's not natural
Dawn wrote: "I really don't understand why Sebastian has to be evil. Sure he has demon blood but so does all the downworlders...how can Clary and all her friends defend the rights of the downworlders but hate S..."valentine is gone. in order to have a story someone has to be evil. Sebastian can be that.
Sebastian is evil because he was raised by an evil father. He would have been evil without the demon blood.
How come Sebastian is all evil and Tessa is perfectly nice when they both have demon blood?Hmm. Good question.
Although maybe it has something to do with his mother abandoning him when he was a harmless, little child. When his mother called him a monster. When his father beat him bloody, who taught him "To love is to destroy" just like he did Jace.
Boys always look up to their fathers, and Valentine wasn't exactly the perfect role model to go by. Valentine raised Sebastian without love and affection. He tried to raise Jace to be exactly like Sebastian, but he was too softhearted. So Valentine created a monster out of him.
But it isn't his fault Sebastian is like this. The demon in him wants, it doesn't love. And Maybe if Valentine hadn't raised him how he had, Sebastian wouldn't have tried to rape his little sister, or killed Max, or tried to destroy Alicante, or attempt to burn down the world.
All he wants is to be loved. He said as much in CoLS to Jocelyn ~ "If you loved me, maybe you could have saved me." And notice how he constantly asks Clary the same questions over and over again? ~ "If Valentine had raised you alongside me, would you have loved me?" "Tell me you love me. Tell me you love me and will fight with me." "Maybe I just want a sister."
Sebastian is completely alone, and the only person he could possibly love - as much as Sebastian can love - despises him.
Tessa has had none of that.
I don't remember which book this is from, but I could find it if you really make me. Valentine gets the demon blood from Lillith, aka the original demon, the mother (literally - according to the books) of all other demons. Lillith even warns Valentine that while her blood will make him strong it will destroy all of his humanity, which Valentine is totally cool with. Factor that in with his upbringing and bippity-boppity-boo.Tessa is the offspring of a greater demon and a shadowhunter, as it's been pointed out not much different than a warlock, add to that the fact that she is constantly being protected by her own personal angel, and in constant contact with an angel and presto good.
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Traci wrote: "That's a really good question. I think it had to do with the way he was raised, and injected during pregnancy. Idk."I agree.. that has to have something to do with it. Because don't forget that Tessa was raised by her aunt. And Sebastian was raised just by Valientie. He never knew his mother. I think that might have something to do with it to. Because Tessa's aunt was vary caring to her. And Tessa didn't even know that she wasn't human until the Mangeter told her and her brother betrayed her. While Sebastian never got any of that love. Because his father raised him to be a fighter and never back down. To Never give up no matter how many people he killed during that time.
Nevada wrote: "I don't remember which book this is from, but I could find it if you really make me. Valentine gets the demon blood from Lillith, aka the original demon, the mother (literally - according to the b..."yeah I think you're right too. Everyone saying its totally about how he was raised but I also think thats its about having Lilith's blood and being a different type of demonic creature
Despite him being part-demon, Sebastian is the most human demon there is
Tessa was conceived with between a shadowhunter without marks and a demon. Sebastian was conceived between two marked shadowhunters and was poisoned with demon blood while in the womb of a marked shadowhunter.
I don't remember exactly but wasn't Tessa biologically the demons child? That's what I thought at least when I first considered it. Sebastian was an experiment, he was injected with the demon blood unnaturally, but Tessa was born with it the way all warlocks are. The only difference between her and Magnus basically is that she had a shadowhunter parent. I could be wrong though it's been a while since I read TID
I think it may have something to do with the demon whose blood it was, besides, it was injected in Sebastian, so kinda unnatural... if demon blood in people can be natural at all...
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I think it has something to do with the way they where brought up, plus Tessa's demon blood wasn't injected while her mother was pregnant with her. unlike his was. So maybe that has something to do with it. Plus Tessa had a good child hood for the most part. Where's his wasn't even really a child hood. From the time he was young he started training to fight. So really he grew up fighting and believing that; that was the only thing worth living for and stuff like that. Where's Tessa didn't have that. Yes she had family problems but she didn't grow up training how to fight for war and all that.
It's all about how you're raised
I think that people should also be factoring in Magnus here, who did not have the best childhood, with his mother killing himself and his "father" trying to drown him in a well (something like that, right? Haven't read City of Bones in a while, sorry if I got the details wrong.) And he doesn't even have a single trace of Shadowhunter blood. Anyway, he didn't have a nice childhood like Tessa's and he has demon blood. It doesn't mean he doesn't have a soul. For Sebastian, the demon blood was injected into his body when he was still developing. My guess is that the demon blood kind of attacked the humanity inside him like a virus. Except the virus won. At least, that's my guess.
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And seriously... what's up with the WAS? Jace is still like this, but people love him for it. So what I'm trying to say is that your comment isn't really valid