A Song of Ice & Fire Fans discussion
What do you think of Stannis Baratheon?
Stannis is my favorite character in the books thus far. He is one of the only true heroes in all of Westeros.
I never got the impression that Stannis is totally aware of the ill he has done (to Renly or the guy who was holding Storm's End & Edric Storm). I got the impression that he is probably plagued by nightmares relating to those two instances and probably suffers from insomnia. He strikes me as very uncomfortable in the shoes Melisandre claims he will fill. I also think she is wrong about him being Azor Ahai reborn.
I feel a lot of empathy for this character whom i think of as a reluctant false savior. What really got me was when he mentions his hawk or falcon that had a broken wing which he mended. He raised this bird, but Robert's birds were always stronger and flew higher. And Robert probably rubbed it in, made fun of his bird. He refers to Melisandre as his red bird (falcon or hawk, whatever), finally a bird worth flying. I don't think he believes in the Lord of Light at all. He just wants a real hawk (or falcon) for once in his life.
I dig how Melisandre and Davos play off one another. Melisandre realizes that Davos is Stannis' best (and possibly his only) friend and that the real threat to the realm is The Others. Davos convinces Stannis that he must show Westeros that he is worthy of the Iron Throne by protecting the realm. Between the two of them, they steer Stannis to the Wall, which is probably the coolest thing any of the characters do in any of the books.
Stannis (and Jon Snow) show compassion and a willingness to bend by letting the Wildlings thru the Wall. Even the giants. Only a handful of the characters in the books would do the same. Most are too busy stabbing one another in the back over broken castles and burned fields.
Danaerys is probably the real savior of Westeros, so I believe that Stannis will come to a tragic end. This does not deter me from really digging the character. Just makes him a more compelling character. I hope I am wrong. I hope he obliterates the Boltons/Freys, quite possibly with the help of the Manderlys. The books would be much less interesting without Stannis and I would be sad to see him go.
Whether one prefers Stannis or Danaerys comes down to whether or not you prefer the faction that burns people deliberately or the faction that burns people unintentionally. I favor the faction that burns people deliberately...
I never got the impression that Stannis is totally aware of the ill he has done (to Renly or the guy who was holding Storm's End & Edric Storm). I got the impression that he is probably plagued by nightmares relating to those two instances and probably suffers from insomnia. He strikes me as very uncomfortable in the shoes Melisandre claims he will fill. I also think she is wrong about him being Azor Ahai reborn.
I feel a lot of empathy for this character whom i think of as a reluctant false savior. What really got me was when he mentions his hawk or falcon that had a broken wing which he mended. He raised this bird, but Robert's birds were always stronger and flew higher. And Robert probably rubbed it in, made fun of his bird. He refers to Melisandre as his red bird (falcon or hawk, whatever), finally a bird worth flying. I don't think he believes in the Lord of Light at all. He just wants a real hawk (or falcon) for once in his life.
I dig how Melisandre and Davos play off one another. Melisandre realizes that Davos is Stannis' best (and possibly his only) friend and that the real threat to the realm is The Others. Davos convinces Stannis that he must show Westeros that he is worthy of the Iron Throne by protecting the realm. Between the two of them, they steer Stannis to the Wall, which is probably the coolest thing any of the characters do in any of the books.
Stannis (and Jon Snow) show compassion and a willingness to bend by letting the Wildlings thru the Wall. Even the giants. Only a handful of the characters in the books would do the same. Most are too busy stabbing one another in the back over broken castles and burned fields.
Danaerys is probably the real savior of Westeros, so I believe that Stannis will come to a tragic end. This does not deter me from really digging the character. Just makes him a more compelling character. I hope I am wrong. I hope he obliterates the Boltons/Freys, quite possibly with the help of the Manderlys. The books would be much less interesting without Stannis and I would be sad to see him go.
Whether one prefers Stannis or Danaerys comes down to whether or not you prefer the faction that burns people deliberately or the faction that burns people unintentionally. I favor the faction that burns people deliberately...
My woman got me a Stannis Baratheon sigil shirt from HBO. If it isn't in the wash, I'm wearing it. I think I'm about half a year ahead of the curve. If the writers of Game of Thrones don't (continue to) ruin Stannis' story, there will come a time in the fourth season when all the show watchers will realize that Stannis is THE HERO of the books and start digging him (and wearing his shirt)...
The Bastard of Bolton better watch out. Stannis just mopped the floor with the Iron Islanders and he's coming...
The Bastard of Bolton better watch out. Stannis just mopped the floor with the Iron Islanders and he's coming...
Edward wrote: "Renly in the book would make a great king. Renly on the HBO show would not have."
Renly never had to work or fight for anything. Robert just gave him what he should have given Stannis. How would Renly have made a good king?
Renly never had to work or fight for anything. Robert just gave him what he should have given Stannis. How would Renly have made a good king?
Rose wrote: "Personally I think if the shadow hadn't happend, Renly would've been the best choice. Now though...either Dany or Stannis. Dany has her heart in the right place, and has the best claim, while Stann..."
So, the King with a smuggler for a Hand doesn't care about the common man? I think Stannis judges men not by title, but by deed, so Stannis probably has more respect and cares more about the common man than anyone but Danaerys. After all, Stannis seeks an alliance with the Wildlings and the mountain clans of the North. People don't get much more common than that...
So, the King with a smuggler for a Hand doesn't care about the common man? I think Stannis judges men not by title, but by deed, so Stannis probably has more respect and cares more about the common man than anyone but Danaerys. After all, Stannis seeks an alliance with the Wildlings and the mountain clans of the North. People don't get much more common than that...
Another cool thing about Stannis: other than his fiery crown, he is described as dressing very plainly. Thus, he is not vain like Renly...
Hell yah Tom, I totally agree.I actually don't have a lot of plans set down for watching GOT s4 because I can't stand to watch another badly done, misrepresentation of one of the best characters in the novels.
But then again, a lot of people don't see Stannis that way since the whole shadow baby assassins thing went down.
I still haven't seen Season 3. I was extremely creeped out by the Joffrey/crossbow/whores scene in Season 2. Also confused. Why, in a show where everyone is wearing animal furs, can they not show Joffrey being cruel to cats and rabbits? Why is it okay to show him being cruel to women instead? I am an olde-school horror film (1970's and earlier) fan. I don't like modern horror flicks and don't really want to watch Theon get flayed, so I have avoided watching Season 3 thus far. Anyways, the writers would rather develop the character Littlepeter (and his whores) than give screen time to Stannis (or develop his character properly), which just shows poor taste and judgement...
Everyone takes a lot of personal experiences into reading. I have never identified with a character from a book as much as I identify with Stannis Baratheon...
I think Stannis' Terminator exterior is something he developed over time to cover what is actually a very soft core. The grinding of the teeth is his way of keeping his emotions inside. At first, he is driven by resentment and spite, but Melisandre (with her vision of the battle in the snow) and especially Davos (with his reading of the letter from the Night's Watch) alter his motivations. Stannis doesn't have the charisma or the title to win loyalty in the North. He is attempting to win their allegiance thru deeds, not words or titles. What he is doing is constructive while what everyone else is doing is destructive...
Everyone seems to think that Stannis sees everything in black and white, but I think all Stannis sees is gray. He is a realist...
I think Stannis' Terminator exterior is something he developed over time to cover what is actually a very soft core. The grinding of the teeth is his way of keeping his emotions inside. At first, he is driven by resentment and spite, but Melisandre (with her vision of the battle in the snow) and especially Davos (with his reading of the letter from the Night's Watch) alter his motivations. Stannis doesn't have the charisma or the title to win loyalty in the North. He is attempting to win their allegiance thru deeds, not words or titles. What he is doing is constructive while what everyone else is doing is destructive...
Everyone seems to think that Stannis sees everything in black and white, but I think all Stannis sees is gray. He is a realist...
Everytime I read a chapter from Melissandre or Stannis, I can't get over how conceited Stannis is. He truly believes he is Azor Ahai, and maybe that's the way of kings being bred into him but I wonder if he ever questions it? Especially seeing as other characters *cough* Jon Snow *cough* seem to have a much greater affinity towards being AA.
Tom wrote: "Stannis doesn't have the charisma or the title to win loyalty in the North. He is attempting to win their allegiance thru deeds, not words or titles. What he is doing is constructive while what everyone else is doing is destructive..."While I don't quite share your positive attitude towards Stannis, I do agree that he's one of the few contenders for the Iron Throne who has ever done anything actively good for the people he wants to rule.
Chris wrote: "Everytime I read a chapter from Melissandre or Stannis, I can't get over how conceited Stannis is. He truly believes he is Azor Ahai, and maybe that's the way of kings being bred into him but I wonder if he ever questions it? "
I never got the impression that Stannis thinks he is Azor Ahai. If anything, he comes off as a pragmatic agnostic towards Melisandre's beliefs, not a 'true believer'. He doesn't necessarily consider himself as Azor Ahai, or even believe that Azor Ahai could really be reborn, but he has no problem with Melisandre and her followers believing that, if that's what it takes to get their loyalty.
Chris wrote: "Everytime I read a chapter from Melissandre or Stannis, I can't get over how conceited Stannis is. He truly believes he is Azor Ahai, and maybe that's the way of kings being bred into him but I won..."
Stannis doesn't believe in the Lord of Light or that he is Azor Ahai. In fact, he feels very uncomfortable in the shoes Melisandre claims he will fill. Reread the part where she is introducing him to the Night's Watch. He is clearly not comfortable with all of the hype and extra titles added to his name...
Renly is vain and conceited. You have the wrong brother...
Stannis doesn't believe in the Lord of Light or that he is Azor Ahai. In fact, he feels very uncomfortable in the shoes Melisandre claims he will fill. Reread the part where she is introducing him to the Night's Watch. He is clearly not comfortable with all of the hype and extra titles added to his name...
Renly is vain and conceited. You have the wrong brother...
Mitali wrote: "Tom wrote: "Stannis doesn't have the charisma or the title to win loyalty in the North. He is attempting to win their allegiance thru deeds, not words or titles. What he is doing is constructive wh..."
I definitely view Stannis in a positive light, but I also see his flaws. He is definitely motivated by negative emotions, which is never good. I am also motivated by negative emotions. I feel motivated not to prove myself right, but to prove other people wrong...
I have found that people who have kind, generous, supportive siblings (or none at all) cannot relate to Stannis while people who have selfish, materialistic, unsupportive siblings can...
I definitely view Stannis in a positive light, but I also see his flaws. He is definitely motivated by negative emotions, which is never good. I am also motivated by negative emotions. I feel motivated not to prove myself right, but to prove other people wrong...
I have found that people who have kind, generous, supportive siblings (or none at all) cannot relate to Stannis while people who have selfish, materialistic, unsupportive siblings can...
If I recall right, I believe Stannis is actually an atheist, ever since he witnessed his parents death in the ocean.He just doesn't mind using the followers of R'hllor since they seem to think he's something special as Mitali said.
That's why his men are still divided into Queen's men and King's men. His men don't have to follow R'hllor. I got the impression most of the R'hllor stuff he does do is to keep his wife/Mel happy. Since he doesn't care about any Gods, things like burning the trees are meaningless to him.
I have found that people who have kind, generous, supportive siblings (or none at all) cannot relate to Stannis while people who have selfish, materialistic, unsupportive siblings can...
That's really interesting actually Tom. I have to wonder if that is true, I never noticed. I do really like Stannis as a character and I have to say my sibling could definitely fit the bill you just described. Maybe that is why I am empathetic to his character.
Amber wrote: "If I recall right, I believe Stannis is actually an atheist, ever since he witnessed his parents death in the ocean.
He just doesn't mind using the followers of R'hllor since they seem to think he'..."
I have a few friends who have read the books. No one seems to dig Stannis as much as I do. I am just comparing and constrasting their families to mine. So this is a conclusion based on a small sample of people I know. Not exactly the kind of information one can glean from strangers with accuracy...
He just doesn't mind using the followers of R'hllor since they seem to think he'..."
I have a few friends who have read the books. No one seems to dig Stannis as much as I do. I am just comparing and constrasting their families to mine. So this is a conclusion based on a small sample of people I know. Not exactly the kind of information one can glean from strangers with accuracy...
Stannis has definitely become one of my favorite characters in the series. Probably my second favorite under Tyrion. I think Stannis would make the best king seeing as he is the only king to take a stance against the terrors beyond the wall...and the only king to bring wildlings and giants to side with him (hopefully they are loyal to him)..but he also fights with his men in the front lines, and whether being on the brink of starvation or freezing to death in a snowstorm..he keeps fighting, making him an incredibly honorable and bad-ass character. Most people expect this guy to die but I honestly think HE WILL be the contender to win the Iron Throne in the end (Dany is too safe and obvious of a choice..won't be her) :)
Chris wrote: "Everytime I read a chapter from Melissandre or Stannis, I can't get over how conceited Stannis is. He truly believes he is Azor Ahai, and maybe that's the way of kings being bred into him but I won..."I dislike Stannis. He is a huge hypocrite.
I see him as the overachieving younger brother of a dominant older brother. He is pompous and proud, demanding and stubborn and above all desperate to be more powerful and popular than his brothers. Middle child syndrome??
How can anyone even remotely relate to/sympathise with/even begin to like the evil that is Stannis Baratheon... I cannot understand.. The reasons I hate Stannis are... 1)He was jealous of Renly (yeah he sat on the richer seat of Storm'sEnd which rightfully belonged to Stannis... But that was only because Robert wanted a string hand at the Targaryen ancestral hold)
2) He misunderstood Roberts intention and thought that he was being punished for letting the Targaryen children survive
3) He killed Renly, his own blood,(thus becoming a kinslayer and a kingslayer) by sorcery and treachery a dishounarable thing to do.
4) He always wanted to be a king and hence also intended to kill Robb
5) He is a hypocrite... Cut Ser Davos's fingers for being a pirate... However himself is a kinslayer.
6) Is not faithful to his wife and also disregards his daughter.
7) Sleeps with the Red Bitch..
8) BURNS INNOCENT CHILDREN... for All that is holy in the world ...
Stannis Baratheon can only be described as gullible, and childish. He wants people to believe that he is the 'Big Bad Wolf' that was created to be feared, and that he is above all normal male activities -- such as drinking and whoring -- yet he gives himself to Melisandre as soon as she mentions power. I don't think Stannis gives a damn about having a son. His problem is that his head has been filled with the idea that HE is the rightful heir, which he is...in a world that doesn't involve Daenarys!
I did not like Stannis in the books, and I like him even less in HBO. Pompous, narrow-minded and not too bright. Plus I've never liked characters who believe that deference is owed not earned.
Grrm has stated that WOW will have three main story arcs end. My own opinion is Jaime, Cersei and Stannis. Or would Jaime & Cersei count as one and there is one left from my BSing.Oh and I love how Stannis could not get over Renly offering him a peach. And how Asha notices he can not relate to women on any levels. Oh, and how the mere suggestion that Robert would have done it better. Stannis is a middle child with all the pathos firmly entrenched.
Stannis would probably make a better ruler than a lot of the other characters. I don't think he's as principled as some others seem to, but at least he feels some obligation to conduct himself in a way that adheres to tradition, law and codes of moral conduct. However, when push comes to shove he will always find ways to interpret those codes and laws in a way that benefits his own interests. I find that many people who claim to be rigid followers of religion or other ideologies are the same way. Justifications and rationalizations come way too easily to the Stannis Baratheons of the world.
I actually get the impression of a puppet whenever I read Stannis. And what if he sits on the Iron throne (never going to happen), how long before every single person is given to the flames? Melisandre is always the happy one in the end.
Stannyboy is a pathetic little wanker with all the ingredients to become a great tyrant, something which ironically his supporters accuse Dany to be. (Hypocrisy very much).
I like Stannis. Didn't initially but I gradually became a Stannis fan. Played brilliantly by Stephan Dillane in the series.
Chinmay wrote: "How can anyone even remotely relate to/sympathise with/even begin to like the evil that is Stannis Baratheon... I cannot understand.. The reasons I hate Stannis are... 1)He was jealous of Renly (y..."
To play devils advocate:
1) I don't think Stannis is fueled primarily by jealousy, more of what is right or wrong. He was the rightful heir to Storm's End, it's his. He wants it because it's his right and duty. Even though Robert neglected him (i.e. Storm's end, not making him hand of the king) he still served faithfully and actively tried to find the truth about Robert's "children"
2) Technically Stannis is the rightful king of westeros, even over Dany, because what Robert did was basically the same as what Aegon the Conqueror did. Renly took Stannis' bannermen from him and claimed himself king and thus committed treason. Would it have been better for one of Stannis' men to kill Renly or Stannis himself. I don't think it's kinslaying when your younger brother tries to overthrow your birthright.
3) I agree he wanted to kill Robb, but Robb was a traitor too. Everyone loves Robb, but Robb made some foolish mistakes.
4) I don't agree to call it kinslaying, so I don't think he is a hypocrite.
5) This is the only issue I have with Stannis, that he is unfaithful to his wife. He could be more attentive to Shireen I agree.
7) I forget, but did he actually burn Edric Storm? I knew he was planning to, but didn't Davos get him away? This is a point where he does cross a line. Views of bastards differ alot in the westeros. Some think they are abominations while others in Dorne approve.
Generally I like Stannis. I think he is learning to be a better king and has good intentions for the realm. Moslty his faults are exacerbated by Melisandre, which I don't think he should follow as much, but she is credible. I can't think of one of her "predictions" that hasn't come true. Just my opinion.
Kind of a pre Madonna, "The throne belongs to me and nobody else" throws tantrum because he doesn't have the throne and has mellisandre burn another poor soul at the stake for rhollor
Stannis is an interesting character in the books. Strangely, he reminds me of Charlie Brown. You know how bad things always happen to Charlie Brown in the Peanuts comic, and how he is always frustrated? Stannis is a lot like that. It's like he's being followed by a little rain cloud that's always pouring rain on his bald head and grinding his teeth.Not only that, but important people always kind of make fun of him. One of the best, and funniest, moments in Book 1 (or maybe it was Book 2) was when Renly tells Stannis that nobody wants him to be king. It was a hilariously cutting line, something like: "There are babies in the womb who do not want you to be king. There are dying men who, with their last gasp, are begging you to not be king." (or something like that).
Hey, while I'm on that topic, here's another Stannis Baratheon/ Charlie Brown parallel: Charlie Brown is always interested in little, red-haired girl and Stannis has his own red-headed girl.
Fun and jokes aside, he adds flavor to chapters and is a great example of moral ambiguity, although- at the end of the day- I can never quite cheer for him as he is too willing to burn people alive. This is not the mark of a great leader.
other thoughts:
I love how keeps threatening to behead Jon Snow and then, afterwards, agreeing to do whatever Jon says. I love how much he grinds his teeth. I love the fact that he will do anything to be king of Westeros but does not actually think he will enjoy being the king. For him, it's all about duty.
Anyone read Martin's livejournal comment that confirms Stannis is still alive? It seems that half the fandom are ecstatic to get confirmation even though we believe it after reading the books and the other half pooh-poohed it, saying that readers should know it already. Whatever, I am just happy to get confirmation.
Yes in the show they rushed the end of Stannis way too fast and without context. In other words they totally stuffed up his POV.I find Stannis interesting but not always likable and he would have made a bad king. I don't think he can compromise and when leading a country you cannot judge in black and white, there are grey areas. In saying that he can also be hilariously funny as in the Gilly incident 'this is not Kings Landing'...but in the book I do think he is seriously under-estimating Ramsay and ignoring Theon's warnings....but I hope he wins the battle for Winterfell, but I do think he is going to die, perhaps just as he attains victory...
Rebecca wrote: "Yes in the show they rushed the end of Stannis way too fast and without context. In other words they totally stuffed up his POV.I find Stannis interesting but not always likable and he would have..."
I don't see Stannis surviving the end of the series either, but I want to see him dying as a hero, with Lightbringer in his hand slaying Roose Bolton and all.
And I still hope he won't sacrifice Shireen in the books, although many people seem to think this will happen.
I always wonder if GRRM's meaning about bittersweet ending are the individual characters or the end of the series?In the case of Stannis I too hope he beats those bloody Boltons, but I have always thought he would not live till the end. I hoped that he would take back Winterfell and then just when he thinks he has conquered someone kills him. That is Stannis's bittersweet ending to gain victory but not live to enjoy it.
I do think Shireen does die but I don't know how much licence Dan n Dave have taken. Does Mel burn her at the Wall to save Jon? Or does Stannis return to the Wall and faces off with the Nights king and Mel whispers in his ear that the only way to save the Realm is by sacrificing his daughter or else they will ALL join the army of the dead. It is the ONLY way I can see Stannis doing this and even then it will torment him to the end of his days.
I hated the way they handled this in the show which led me to believe that D&D are totally clueless about the characters and their motivations.
But I best leave it there or this will turn into a rant lol
I just don't see why would Stannis burn his only heir (and the last Baratheon). "I will have no burnings. Pray harder."
"I have a duty to my daugher. If I'm dead, seat my daughter on the Iron Throne."
He is right, the throne should be his. But his tactics are ruthless. He seems like he's for the greater good but he's stepped on a lot of toes to get as far as he is now. I don't approve of the show using his daughter to show his cruelty. He loves her and didn't sacrifice her in the book. Stannis is a tricky character to understand. I don't see him really doing anything other than demanding a surrender from the Lannisters.
Silvana wrote: "I just don't see why would Stannis burn his only heir (and the last Baratheon). "I will have no burnings. Pray harder."
"I have a duty to my daugher. If I'm dead, seat my daughter on the Iron Th..."
This is where there seems to be a contradiction between the books and the show. Just recently GRRM wrote on his journal that 'Stannis is very much alive'....Now I'm pretty certain that GRRM has done a fair bit of work on TWoW( a 2016 release?PLZ lol)....GRRM supposedly told D&D that Shireen dies(there is foreshadowing in the books)but did he tell them HOW and WHO did it? I don't know, but it seems George is distancing himself from the decisions taken by D&D by stating that the show and the books are two different interpretations of the same story(paraphrasing). To me the show is becoming a generic brand of the books and not as good aka the whole Jaime goes to Dorne scenario which didn't work. And Sansa marrying Ramsay Bolton? Where the hell did that come from? Were the writers smoking something they shouldn't?
So to me show Stannis and book Stannis are two very different characters and I prefer book Stannis.
Also I was thoroughly pissed off that D&D played the audience for fools by showing the lovey dovey Father and daughter scene at The Wall(an Oh aint that sweet moment) and then a few episodes later he has her burnt alive! That scene with Shireen wasn't shock and awe; it was totally horrific and didn't need to happen. Were you angry about it? I surely was and still am lol......
Marissa wrote: "He is right, the throne should be his. But his tactics are ruthless. He seems like he's for the greater good but he's stepped on a lot of toes to get as far as he is now. I don't approve of the sho..."I find Stannis an interesting character and not always likeable, but in the series nearly every character is ruthless aka Tywin Lannister, Littlefinger, Varys even Renly who was prepared to sit back and let Robb's army take all the casualties while he played at war....But what you see in Stannis is a man who plays by the rules and yet he is allowing himself to be led by Melisandre and slowly he begins to change and starts compromising himself.....It is interesting to read and one hopes he will come to his senses...but will he? That's what keeps us reading....
I do like a lot Stannis, from the first book :'ve liked him because he's smart and fair and knows very well what "duty" means. But he cannot be king because is Daenerys the one that really has to be queen.
I can't wait for the Battle of Ice. It is time for Stannis to shine again. He's the best military commander in Westeros and has proven it from time to time since he was 18/19 defending Storm's End, destroying the Iron Fleet during the Greyjoy Rebellion, attacking King's Landing and would have had won if it's not because of Lannister and Tyrell's surprise entry, defeating the wildlings despite being massively outnumbered....his ragtag army of northern clans, stormlanders, florents and so on is now encamped in the crofter's village i.e. the perfect ice trap for the Bolton and Frey's armies. I wish TWOW could come sooner so we could see him kick ass against all odds like he always did.
Silvana wrote: "I can't wait for the Battle of Ice. It is time for Stannis to shine again. He's the best military commander in Westeros and has proven it from time to time since he was 18/19 defending Storm's End,..."I think we are in for bad news when it comes to Stannis and now having watched the show, it is obvious, even though I really didn't want to believe it.
In the books Mel has changed her allegiance from Stannis to Jon Snow. But most importantly she specifically asked that Devan Seaworth be kept at her side in Castle Black. The boy is unhappy with this decision but Mel thinks to herself that Davos has suffered enough and she would try and spare his last son, and that he would not thank her for it. So Devan doesn't leave with Stannis he stays at the Wall with Melisandre.
What is she sparing his last son from? Defeat? Stannis's defeat or did she see Devan die and so kept him back?
The hope I have is that GRRM stated recently when asked about Stannis is that 'he is very much alive.' And I'm hoping that he is advanced in writing Winds.....I always thought that Stannis would die once he is confronted with Daenerys--- a kind of irony..Robert killed Rhaegar and Daenerys kills Stannis.....I would LOVE to see him beat those bloody Boltons...PLZ!!! lol
Ah sadly I think Stannis would not survive the series. And Mel... I hope she dies soon, preferably at the hands of Davos.
Rusia666 wrote: "I absolutly agree with you"Everyone is saying Mel is at the Wall just in time to save Jon Snow and they may be right....But there is also this, Davos is also there and I should think once he finds out that she sacrificed Shireen and then abandoned Stannis in the field of battle, he wont be happy. Then we have Tormund who saw her light the flames for Mance Rayder, I should think he'd want her dead too.
Then there is this, Alliser Thorne...I can't believe that killing Jon was his only plan and the boy Olly, he hates Tormund. I think next on the NW death list is Tormund Giantsbane....then there is WUN WUN....so who the heck knows what is going to go down at the Wall?
All hell would break loose, I reckon :)) maybe when Jon would finally back to life, he'll find only carnage at CB. Doesn't mean NW is done though, Jon still had allies he dispersed to other castles.
Silvana wrote: "All hell would break loose, I reckon :)) maybe when Jon would finally back to life, he'll find only carnage at CB. Doesn't mean NW is done though, Jon still had allies he dispersed to other castles."It depends on how close Dan n Dave will stay to the story. In the books his last word was 'Ghost' in the show it seems his last word was 'Olly'......I don't know if they will warg Jon into Ghost although there is that excerpt from the Oxford interview where Dan alludes to it happening in Season 6, I hope so!
I am hoping that the reason why they killed off Mance was for Jon to take his place...When he rises from the dead the wildlings may follow him as their new leader or their King Beyond The Wall and this way Jon has his army. Plus he (as Jon Targaryen) may unite the north with Rickon to fight the Boltons and Freys and take back the north. Mel said in the books, that the prince that was promised would need to sit the Throne in order to unite the people against the greater threat...This is either Jon or Dany or perhaps they will recognise that they need each other. I s'pose we'll have to wait and see....
I'm so confused. If they don't show the actual death, there's always a chance for " resurrection", isn't there? Especially on this series. I mean, isn't Gendry still rowing?
I agree.
I am unfortunately one of the few people who would watch the TV series if it had filmed every single second of the books from beginning to end.