Modern Good Reads discussion
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Amazon and Goodreads: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
"And a good part of Goodreads is built to cater to Authors in social media, events, group discussions, giveaways. If Amazon no longer cares to devote resources to this kind of activity, will we see the Author-centric aspects of Goodreads drop off in favor of the reader/consumer focus?"That's the one I was wondering about when I heard about the acquisition. I hope it doesn't evolve that way.
Great topic, Travis. Good to see you here.
Scary. Thanks for this insight. I suppose we won't know the answer to any of this until the dust settles. I've got my eyes open for the next big site to pop up for readers and authors that isn't own by Amazon.
Mod
This is quite an industry shakeup going on right now. New and exciting things happening all the time in publishing.
Jenna wrote: ""And a good part of Goodreads is built to cater to Authors in social media, events, group discussions, giveaways. If Amazon no longer cares to devote resources to this kind of activity, will we see..."Here is a scary thought. An author offers copies of books here on GR. Amazon will select winners and send said copies to the winners. Either eBook or print, you must have an Amazon account to enter and win.
Thanks for breaking this down, Travis. It seems 'the man' has a finger in just about every pie and you're right - this is just plain creepy. Looks like I've joined the industry right in the middle of some exciting times!
I didn't know Amazon had a hand in Shelfari and Librarything. Ugh! I'm not anti-Amazon, but it does scare me how much of my experience as author and reader they have control over. As a consumer, I love their features; as an author, I'm not so sure I love their policies. I guess I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop, you know--like for this revolutionary leader we fought to put into power to all of a sudden turn into a genocidal dictator. I hope that doesn't happen. But sometimes it feels like that's where we're headed.
I just hope Amazon doesn't become the center of all things, I'd hate to lose access to other stores.
I worry about censorship. I try to be open about my lifestyle and reading choices to avoid future internet blowups and scandals...but would the stripping of psuedonyms be so bad? I notice pseudonyms often give the lowest ratings. *cough* sockpuppets *cough*
Mod
I hear you, do we really need our pseudonyms that bad?
Privacy is so overrated.
Somewhere in that logic, there's a principal being smashed to little bits. I am in favor of privacy when its available, for certain things.
In my writing and publishing, privacy is non-existent, SEO knows no privacy.
Aaand this is why I use my online handle as a nickname and brand rather than a psuedonym. The only way to keep internet privacy is to keep really private things off the internet.
Mod
That is the sad truth of it. Privacy is virtually non-existent. People who want privacy are now attracting attention under the post 911 mindset. Only someone with something to hide wants privacy.
Its become a dirty word.
I'm waiting to see what changes are made before I put too much into this.
It could be they just wanted to eliminate a possible competitor before they became a threat.
Mod
Rumor has it they paid $150 million.
My first thoughts on the Amazon/Goodreads link-up were positive, but after reading the comments regarding real name and pseudonym- I write and review under a pseudonym, but my Amazon/Kindle purchases are made under my own name. I would not like the two linked in any way.
Mod
Most people are hoping that this planned interconnectivity between Kindle libraries and Goodreads accounts would be "optional", by choice, and not automatic.
And the privacy issue is not to be discounted.
The issue that bothers me more than anything else is how this move gives Amazon a broad, sweeping control over our access to the discussion and discovery of books. No one corporation should have that power, and the capacity for abuse of that power is just too enticing not too abuse it, eventually.
How's that saying go? Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Something like that.
I'm sure a lot of kinks will have to be worked out. I can only hope for the best. The best results I'm hoping for is an attraction to more readers and getting more support for us indie an self-published authors. I hope Amazon will spread the word more for us "little" people so to speak and not flood Goodreads with only mainstream authors. Depending on how things go will determine if I stay or go. To be honest, a lot of mainstream authors don't even pay attention to Goodreads- if you check their posts some of them haven't been on here in over a year! So I hope the promo will be strong for us Indie folks. For privacy - that does need to be worked out too! If you write under another name you may want to change your name to that now.
Selena wrote: "I'm sure a lot of kinks will have to be worked out. I can only hope for the best. The best results I'm hoping for is an attraction to more readers and getting more support for us indie an self-publ..."Some of them have never even been here before. I think it should be limited to those that actually care enough to visit and actively participate in discussions and other things.
Just wanted to thank you for posting your thoughts here. As a reader, I think there will be some strong benefits - although those of us who prefer our Nook to our Kindle app may face more integrations challenges. As an author, the merger is more troubling. I hope that if Amazon uses the Goodreads analytics, small and independent published authors will be more visible, but given the amount of "pay to play" promotion on Amazon, I'm concerned we might lose a lot of the benefits of Goodreads.
Mod
What the Atlantic has distilled from this move is one simple idea: Amazon has just snatched up all the data that Goodreads holds on Bibliophiles' reading habits.
Bibliophiles are the primary source of word-of-mouth and book blogger viral book discovery. Goodreads is the #1 place Bibliophiles come to congregate.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/a...
Prior to being bought out by Amazon, there were rumours that Goodreads was exploring the possibility of becoming a book seller: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremygre...If that was truly the case, then Amazon just bought out a formidable future competitor. That's a smart business move.
I think my predictions for the immediate future are this:
1. Kobo is going to have to come up with its own way to allow their consumers to rate/review the books they buy (currently Kobo rides on GR reviews).
2. A direct link for buyers to purchase books on Amazon will be made available (I'm Canadian and currently my direct link to Amazon doesn't work); and,
3. I think I saw in an article somewhere stating Amazon will provide consumers with a quick link to GRs to see reviews/ratings prior to purchasing a book.
I refuse to get angry with Amazon for being smart, and honestly I don't think they're going to tamper with GRs to the point where trust becomes an issue. After years of the big 6 publishers telling readers what they want to read, Amazon was the first to let readers decide for themselves by allowing anyone with a book to publish. I really don't think we can overlook the fact they are the catalyst for the current revolution in publishing.
That said, I'm not one to back a monopoly. Diversity is better. So as long as Amazon maintains integrity, I really don't see any issues.
Has anyone noticed that books in "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" on Amazon no longer have the star ratings with them?
Mod
There is no doubt in my mind that Amazon made a very smart move. And beyond making it easier to buy books from Amazon, the rest of our speculation about what they will do with Goodreads could seem trivial.
But, in the big picture, seeing how much power over the marketplace Amazon controls, giving them carte blanche access to Goodreads data mining is just plain creepy.
And allowing a retailer to control this scale of massive social media for book blogging and other book discovery/discussions feels like a big fat nasty conflict of interest.
Just sayin'
G.E. wrote: "Has anyone noticed that books in "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" on Amazon no longer have the star ratings with them?"You have to click on the book to get the full details and then it shows the stars. It took me a while to figure that out.
Yes, but they used to be there. You didn't have to click on the book to see them. Noticed this changed a couple of days ago.
Travis wrote: "S.M. wrote: "Prior to being bought out by Amazon, there were rumours that Goodreads was exploring the possibility of becoming a book seller: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremygre......"Don't forget, Goodreads has 16 million registered users to help keep Amazon honest. And you and I are two of them.
The internet and companys are always changing. Its really stupid.
This place is a gold mine of information they can use. sixteen million readers ages and books they have read and ratings they gave them. Not to mention they can see just how many click-throughs went to a competitors site. I know there were some people that uploaded or deleted a lot of their reviews, but there are still copies on a server somewhere.
Great article...will be sharing those links with my author friends...Ilsa
"Additionally, Amazon is infamous for censorship of certain kinds of novels."You're right, that is disturbing. I'm hoping the Amazon/GR merger will be equally beneficial to all involved, and this kind of thing won't happen here. Maybe I'm just an optimist. I guess my major attitude is to just wait and see.
Wondering if this might make indie sites like Smashwords more popular? They don't censor their material- at least, not that I know of. Thoughts?
Mod
You're right, that is disturbing. I'm hoping the Amazon/GR merger will be equally beneficial to all involved, and this..."
I hear you, I am holding out for all the potential positives, and very much hoping I won't see the negatives come to pass.
I don't write material that would ever be banned, and I am not personally concerned about privacy. If you look up my name you will see me all over the internet with my books and blogs and SEO junk.
And I really do hope Amazon makes it so easy for Goodreads members to buy Amazon books, that even I can sell some books (shocking idea I know).
I am hoping for the best.
But I can't help but see the glaring potential for abuse of all the power Amazon is amassing in the marketplace. Giving them Goodreads just feels wrong.
Travis wrote: "...I can't help but see the glaring potential for abuse of all the power Amazon is amassing in the marketplace. Giving them Goodreads just feels wrong."All the feels, man.
While I do hope for the best, the idea that we are narrowing the number of independent resources available makes me itch. There are already too few places for authors and readers to connect free of guilt or obligation. I really hope the merger doesn't cost us this one.
On the pseudonym issue. As a day job I work for an international billion dollar company that you all know the name of. If they found out I was writing erotic books they would doubtless fire me without warning. Pseudonyms protect an authors rights to privacy in his or her personal life. Just because I work for a conservative company, does not give it the right to censor my creative output in other areas, yet they do it because they are powerful and they can. Bottom line. Centralized power in a free market economy is ALWAYS a bad thing. That's why we have laws against monopolies.
I shall continue to oppose Amazon's takeover of Goodreads right up until they offer me sackfuls of cash! :)
I'm concerned that Amazon may make Goodreads a tool for sales and lessen the Goodreads experience for readers. As an author, I am especially troubled by the possible interference of Amazon in Goodreads author program.
Mod
"Goodreads is down for some visitors. We're working on fixing the problem - thanks for your patience, everyone!"
Some visitors?
You shut down a website with 16 million members because of visitors?
Was Amazon visiting to review their prospective purchase?
I just thought that was really strange, and a creepy coincidence with the timing of this planned purchase by Amazon.
Okay, so I'm not crazy.. I was thinking the exact same thing Travis. For the time I've been hanging out at Goodreads, since 2007, I've never had an issue getting onto the site then to see that cryptic message...... just too coincidental if you ask me..:)
Travis wrote: "Without launching a flurry of conspiracy theories, did anyone find it strange that Goodreads was down for several hours yesterday evening with a cryptic tweet explanation:"Goodreads is down for s..."
I took that to mean "for some of our visitors to this site GR was down and we are working to fix the issue so that all of our visitors have full access." I suppose the way you put it would be possible as well, though.
I can't say I'm chuffed at the news. The great thing about Goodreads is that, as an author, I can reach out to readers on platforms such as Nook and iPad. I'm not sure this is something Amazon will be happy with.Amazon were keen to engage indies in December 2011 when they created KDP Select, and initially is was a goldmine for us, but once the algorithms changed and 10,000 free downloads earned you just a couple of hundred sales, it was clear that they regretted the decision.
Even now, only authors from the Amazon stable and the big six are featured in the Kindle Daily Deal email.
I'm so glad I went back to distributing through Smashwords to all the other sites as I'm earning more from them than I did from KDP borrows, but I fear the sale means I won't be able to reach out to those customers any more :-)
Mod
"Goodread..."
That is what I considered the message might mean. And then I went to isitdownrightnow.com, and they showed Goodreads was down for everyone, for a time period of at least a couple hours.
So, I took the "some visitors" to mean something else.
Perhaps they were doing a search of the database for 'B&N', 'Apple', 'Smashwords' and a few other competitors...
Mod
Data mining.
They can grab market stats from Goodreads that don't exist anywhere else. They can realistically gauge their presence in the market, book by book, genre by genre, country by country. All that data at their fingertips.
:)
Good point, Travis. I would imagine that info would be gold to them.
I thought I was the only one locked out!
I echo earlier comments about kobo and nook being promoted on this site. No business in their right mind would give their rivals free advertising (if at all) on their site.
Mod
Makes good solid sense to me. If I was Amazon, I would want to disable or at the very least obfuscate links to competing retailers.
Either that or just go and buy them all out.
:)
There are many stances on it from many different angles.
Lets talk about a few of them here.
The latest posting from Digital Book World brings some interesting points to light:
http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2013/...
Amazon's systems are consumer-focused. This has many potential ramifications for Goodreads. If that consumer focus bleeds over into Goodreads, how will that change the system for authors?
And a good part of Goodreads is built to cater to Authors in social media, events, group discussions, giveaways. If Amazon no longer cares to devote resources to this kind of activity, will we see the Author-centric aspects of Goodreads drop off in favor of the reader/consumer focus?
http://bestsellerlabs.com/amazon-buys...
Jonathan Gunson has found something positive about this merger, Kindle libraries will find integration with Goodreads "shelves". This is wonderful for authors, because all of a sudden, a whole ton of "read" or "owned" or "want to read" shelving will register for all these books. That kind of activity is a major big deal, adds a lot of popularity to a book in Goodreads.
But there are also a great deal of concerns about privacy. Many a reader who buys on Kindle, using their real identity, yet keeping their Kindle collection private in this neat little device, is willing to write reviews on Goodreads under a pseudonym. Goodreads allows this privacy. People also discuss books in group conversations under their pseudonym.
If Kindle starts connecting the dots between the device/purchaser, and the Goodreads pseudonym, privacy is out the window. This has far reaching implications for readers of the more risque erotica material. Privacy has enabled readers to buy and enjoy these books on their kindle devices. One might say that ereader privacy has contributed to the explosion of the erotica ebook market.
If that aspect of privacy is lost due to Amazon-Goodreads integration of Kindle libraries and Goodreads "shelves", will there be a drop-off in purchases of the more risque-controversial reading material?
Not everyone wants their entire Kindle library broadcast to the world.
http://thenightlifeseries.blogspot.co...
And finally, there is another issue for consideration, Amazon's monopolistic control of book sales, discovery, and the discussion forums for talking about books. In addition to Amazon's own Kindle forums, unbeknownst to many, Amazon is also a major shareholder/partner in Librarything, a Goodreads competitor. AND obviously, Amazon runs Shelfari, the other major Goodreads competitor.
We, the world of book readers and authors, have very little places left to go, to talk about books, where Amazon does not own/control the discussion format and have full access to all that data.
The megagiant bookseller is positioning themselves to control all the platforms where people go to find and talk about books. Control of discovery, control of word-of-mouth, control of reviews and ratings.
That's just plain creepy, and it screams of a monopoly.
Additionally, Amazon is infamous for censorship of certain kinds of novels. They will simply remove a book from their system, as if it had never existed. That removal reaches straight into Kindle libraries. Kindle ebooks you have purchased that Amazon deems unworthy will disappear without warning.
Traditionally, Goodreads is a place where everyone is free to discuss every kind of book, to rate and review those books. There are books discussed, rated, and reviewed on Goodreads, that are not sold on Amazon, have been banned by Amazon. Will Amazon bring their brand of intolerance and arbitrary book removal to Goodreads?
Comments anyone?