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Bad Behaving Authors hit group!
I didn't see your response (was it deleted?) but I was able to read bits that had been pasted into other people's responses. I might get hate for this, but you were wrong. The review that was left was not horrible at all but well thought out and constructive. Your response was inappropriate, demeaning, and belittling.
While I don't at all believe it's okay to leave a review of a book (good or bad) without reading it, and for that I will fault anyone who does (a personal disagreement is never a reason to leave a negative review on a work), your response was way out of line and I can totally understand why they ganged up on you. This wasn't an issue of victimized author says something logical in response to an uninformed negative review; this was you personally attacking the reviewer for what was ultimately a well considered and thoughtful assessment of your work. I would only hope that the inevitable people who don't like my book are half as good at expressing their distate as that reviewer was.
A caveat: Like I said, I could not read your full response, it looks as though it was deleted. If you think reading your full response would change my opinion, feel free to paste it here and I will revise said opinion. :)
I take it back. I just read a screen cap of the entire conversation and I'm absolutely going to have to side with the reviewers. Should a book be rated negatively because of a personal disagreement with an author? No, but I can understand why they did it. The things you said were demeaning, cruel, and unfair. The review was lukewarm at worst and you responded with vicious personal attacks. You did not act professionally at all and nothing of what you said was justified or okay.
A.K. wrote: "I didn't see your response (was it deleted?) but I was able to read bits that had been pasted into other people's responses. I might get hate for this, but you were wrong. The review that was lef..."
+1
Besides -and I'm just asking because I haven't tried to do so myself yet, as my own two novels are nowhere near a stage where they should be (self)published- how is it possible to upload an unfinished and unedited version? Seems like a dodgy system to me. But, does it surprise you, then, if what got distributed by accident got luke-warm reviews? Did the reviewer actually have an actual chance to know that it was not the final version of your book?
Judging by your reaction it is clear that the unprofessional one here is: you.
It is a tough thing. It's very personal, like someone criticizing your child. But it just doesn't work to defend your book in public against a bad review. It never never does, it never helps. Authors, do not have any rights! If someone wants to say he hates your book, he has a perfect right to do so. Even if he didn't understand, even if he didn't even finish it. You have no right to stop that. Also, many readers don't like to read a book, then hear from the author that I should read a different/new/revised version. They will review what they review, which will probably be the book that they read! They may not want to give you a second chance, and that is their right.Anyway, William, good luck. Take a deep breath, a long walk in the woods, try to forget all about this, and keep writing. (Maybe under a pen-name next time ....)
Has anyone here read Dean Koontz's 2009 novel, Relentless? This convo thread sure makes me think of it...
I'm thinking this post is just to continue on with something that happened over a month ago, for attention? In looking at a link in one of the comments on the other thread, one of the sub links has him apologizing, so why bring it up again?Best to let this topic fade away.
I'd be more than happy with any comment. Good, bad or indifferent. Silence means your work affected no one enough to say what they thought imo.
I read the topic of this thread and thought immediately, being a newbie author: "OMG, they've found me out already - these authors are as prescient as they're cracked up to be!" Thank goodness the actual topic was reviews and my true nature lies unexposed for anonther day (I hope)!
I didn't look up the incident, but the original post in this thread is too funny!I just read it out loud to my wife and we were both laughing.
Gosh, I'd be glad if I got "Any" kind of review. I read one the other day on Amazon of a bestselling author's book. It said and I quote: "I could not wait to put this book down." Now some of you out there might complain about a review like this. I wouldn't, at least it means someone did take the time to pick up the guy's book. Someone out there please tell me how to convince someone to even look at your book's cover and at least pick it up and thumb through it anyway. Man O Man, if I got a bad review, I'd be making progress.
Robert wrote: "I read the topic of this thread and thought immediately, being a newbie author: "OMG, they've found me out already - these authors are as prescient as they're cracked up to be!" Thank goodness the ..."Your comment made me laugh so I checked out your profile, Robert. I liked some of the comments you've made in your groups.
Has your book been published? I didn't see it on your page. I was interested in what you write.
J DeWayne wrote: "Gosh, I'd be glad if I got "Any" kind of review. I read one the other day on Amazon of a bestselling author's book. It said and I quote: "I could not wait to put this book down." Now some of you ou..."Your comment made me laugh, too. But when I checked on your profile, I didn't see your book, either. Nor did I see Paul's book, from comment #11.
Don't authors usually put their books on their profile pages?
Zahara wrote: "Robert wrote: "I read the topic of this thread and thought immediately, being a newbie author: "OMG, they've found me out already - these authors are as prescient as they're cracked up to be!" Than..."I'm glad I amused you Zahara. Thanks for taking the time to research my profile - I suppose, like most authors, I like attention.
Until recently I have only authored research papers for scientific journals. But I got inspired and wrote a book at the confluence of science and religion. It's at the publishers just entering editing. As it's Christian, I hope they'll have it in bookstores in time for Christmas!
Zahara wrote: "Robert wrote: "I read the topic of this thread and thought immediately, being a newbie author: "OMG, they've found me out already - these authors are as prescient as they're cracked up to be!" Than..."Zahara - I reciprocated and researched your site. It's very interesting and you certainly read an eclectic collection of books. I didn't find what book you wrote, but that's probably from my inability to negotiate around GR effectively.
Robert wrote: "Zahara wrote: "Robert wrote: "I read the topic of this thread and thought immediately, being a newbie author: "OMG, they've found me out already - these authors are as prescient as they're cracked ..."It sounds interesting, Robert. I'd like to hear more about it, so I'll check your profile around Christmas. :)
Robert wrote: I didn't find what book you wrote, but that's probably from my inability to negotiate around GR effectively. I'm not an author. I love reading, but the thought of having to write anything more rigorous than comments here or on Amazon would make me hyperventilate!
Zahara wrote: "J DeWayne wrote: "Gosh, I'd be glad if I got "Any" kind of review. I read one the other day on Amazon of a bestselling author's book. It said and I quote: "I could not wait to put this book down." ..."Probably does not appear because I haven't set it up correctly. You can type the title Oberlux in the search box at the top of this page or you can click on the link to my website to the right of my picture on my profile page. Sorry I didn't set it up right, but glad I made you laugh.
Well, not to beat a dead horse, but I only now just caught up with reading the screen cap and entire conversation.I'm a new author, so not necessarily an expert, but I think you've done the opposite of public relations here. Compounding the error by posting this thread seems ill advised.
I read the initial review which you attacked. Essentially, that reviewer gave you free editing advice, thorough and substantive. Obviously thought went into, and time to analyze what they thought needed work. This is advice that authors spend a great deal of money to obtain with editing services and the like.
I wish you luck in your writing. Were I your marketing consultant I'd advise ending any future public contact, since you don't seem capable of doing it in such a way as to help your own cause.
That being said, I am tempted to read your book, but more in a can't stop watching an automobile accident sort of way, so you might be getting some sales that way. Ironically.
I do have a suggestion, though, It appears the drama over this incident might make a better story than your original book, though I don't think you could be trusted to write it. Perhaps suggest it to an author friend of yours, if you have any.
but seriously, my advice is to stop posting publicly at all. Or, post in discussion threads and be polite. That's the only way to undo this damage. Posting a complaint thread about it only serves to sir up bad echoes, which does you no benefit.
J DeWayne wrote: "Gosh, I'd be glad if I got "Any" kind of review. I read one the other day on Amazon of a bestselling author's book. It said and I quote: "I could not wait to put this book down." Now some of you ou..."I agree, that is at least some progress. You must make sure the cover of your book stands out from all the others. People do judge a book by its cover.
I have put a 'competition' on my blog for people to choose a cover.
http://postdoos.blogspot.ie/2013/03/j...
I have received a low review before. But posting a response never crossed my mind. To me, it's unprofessional. They.Will.Happen. Your work will not be for everyone! I guess in a perfect world we'd all be writing million dollar bestsellers and have perfect reviews, but that just isn't the case.
I've been paying attention to reviews for other books since deciding to write one myself, and my admittedly unscientific observation is that the best way to find out about the book is to read the 3 star reviews. The one star reviews are so negative its hard to get anything useful, and 5 and 4 star reviews, unless they're lengthy, let you know its a book they liked, but not much else. But the 3 star reviews seem to be more of a substance where they want to justify their rating, so they go more in depth about what they did or didn't like, and it's more about the WRITING.
So, as a writer, I find it educational to read those reviews.
John, I totally agree! That's what I do - I might read a few of the higher & lower ones, but the most in-depth reviews usually occur in the 3 and 4-star range, in my opinion. Also some of the most articulate reviews occur in that middle range.
My hobby has recently become reading the 1 and 2 star reviews of books I adore by authors I idolize. Helps keep perspective, helps me remember there is genuinely no way to please everyone.
A.K. wrote: "My hobby has recently become reading the 1 and 2 star reviews of books I adore by authors I idolize. Helps keep perspective, helps me remember there is genuinely no way to please everyone."We all have our tastes.
It's like when I was a young man, I used to get so depressed and frustrated when I would cross the room to ask a girl to dance and she'd say no. To which my friend pointed out: "YOU'RE being selective in whom you ask to dance, so why can't she be selective, too?"
John wrote: "I've been paying attention to reviews for other books since deciding to write one myself, and my admittedly unscientific observation is that the best way to find out about the book is to read the 3..."I do the same thing you do and for the same reasons. K.A. agrees, so now there are three of us. Three makes it scientific, right?
John wrote: To which my friend pointed out: "YOU'RE being selective in whom you ask to dance, so why can't she be selective, too?" What an insightful statement! I love it. (Not that it probably made it hurt less.)
Zahara wrote: "John wrote: To which my friend pointed out: "YOU'RE being selective in whom you ask to dance, so why can't she be selective, too?" What an insightful statement! I love it. (Not that it probably m..."
hah! no, it didn't hurt less, but it made me less judgmental about it.
Zahara wrote: "John wrote: "I've been paying attention to reviews for other books since deciding to write one myself, and my admittedly unscientific observation is that the best way to find out about the book is ..."Most of the reviews I write are three or four stars. I rarely give five, and I rarely leave less than three because I typically don't finish those books.
So yes, I agree! I like reading the 3 star ones also.
Judy wrote: "Zahara wrote: "John wrote: "I've been paying attention to reviews for other books since deciding to write one myself, and my admittedly unscientific observation is that the best way to find out abo..."I'm with you there! I often read the 2/3/4 star reviews - there's usually lots of information in them and I find them really helpful. Five stars are good if they're detailed. Otherwise they're just nice for the author.
And you also have to remember that Goodreads stars are different - two stars means "It was OK". I only give a five star review myself if it's going to be a book I'd reread to disintegration status! On Goodreads, a four star review is still excellent.
I find it awkward to give two star reviews, but have done on one occasion. It was a writing style thing for me, and I hoped that I made that clear in my review.
Unfortunately, I too, have read the comments under the review, and it appears, William, that you have done yourself a disservice by publicly, and apparently rather rudely, arguing about the review.
As authors, there will always be someone who doesn't like our writing, our style, our characters, our genre or our story. It happens. No one likes a poor review, but hopefully we can (if we choose to read them) learn and move on from there. There's a nice little acronym I recently saw on facebook. THINK - a reminder that what we post online is there, in one way, shape or form, forever.
T - is it true?
H - is it helpful?
I - is it interesting?
N - is it nice?
K - is it kind?
While not all of those things might apply to reviews, I certainly believe that they apply, or should at least be thought about by authors who choose to reply to comments in a review or have any kind of online presence.
288 strong out of how many tens of thousands?
288 strong out of how many tens of thousands of what?
I want to say 9,000 penises but I don't know how internet I can be on Goodreads.
Wait. Something is 288 strong out of 9000 penises? Now I'm really confused. At least I can't possibly be one of whatever the larger group is.
I haven't read the original post, so possibly I'm not qualified to comment, but it's rarely a good idea to answer back a reviewer. Yes, I've had some shabby reviews- you only have to see the other threads I've participated in- and while they're disappointing, and I wish they hadn't happened, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Everybody here's undoubtedly left a less than flattering review on something- book, film, game, it hardly matters. How would you like it if somebody popped up and started haranguing you for expressing your views?See the book as being like a kid (overused metaphor, I know). Just as you can't curb the kid's behaviour once they've left home, you can't stop people from judging your book however they see fit. If somebody doesn't like their book being read by strangers, it makes you wonder why they published in the first place. There's nothing wrong with being a hobby author, if you think that's where your preferences lie.
I've been following this thread and I wasn't going to comment but, I decided to add my two cents. I really don't think it's ever a good idea to comment back on a review, whether it's a good or bad review of your book. I've gotten both good and bad and I refuse to comment, email or make any other type of contact with the reviewer. The reason is that I wouldn't want an author contacting me about a review I wrote (unless it's a friend, of course).
As far as the group that "attacks authors", just ignore it. Don't respond. Don't even think about it. Five minutes (literally, five minutes) after joining this site, someone added my book. I got excited! Then, I saw it was someone who put it on their shelf called "When Hell Freezes Over." Of course, my feelings were hurt for a split second (I am human) but then I noticed that this person had added 450 other books to that list. It didn't take long for me to make it there. So, I think, 'oh well, my book isn't for everyone'. My friends, family, co-workers like it. I like it. That's all that matters, really for me at this point. Then, I noticed, ever since then, people still add my book, despite low ratings, high ratings or people saying they'd never even give it a chance. These things don't seem to matter much when people decide to add a book to their 'to be read' list. (unless its really bad with all one star ratings)
After all, I add books based mostly on the description or recommendations from friends when choosing something to read. Overall, if its a decent book, people will read it, like it, spread the word. If not, then a rewite may be in order.
*This opinion is not given from the view of a best selling author.*
Indeed.Regardless of being an unknown or starting out author/writer, commenting is always a bad idea. If you really must (for instance if you know the people who are commenting), then keep it to a neutral and polite minumum, like "Thank you for your words, I aprechiate that" or something similar. Never ever engage/encourage in a discussion. It doesn't matter if you are Mr/Mrs Unknown or if you are Stephen King or Anne Rice. It's just not cool. Ever.
Now, if you specifically ask for comments and discussion, then it's a different matter. Still, don't be touchy if you don't like what you see. Always be polite and rise above it and let the others comment, never actively engage yourself.
Edit: corrected typos :P
Dutch, I agree. It's fine to complain about bad reviews...to your mother, spouse, friend, hairdresser, dog and anyone else you can buttonhole. Publically, though: a dignified silence is the only response.Your post touches on the same issue I discussed in a recent blog post: Are writers too accessible these days? http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=443
Rita wrote: "Indeed.Regardless of being an unknown or starting out author/writer, commentiing is always a bad idea. If you really must (for instance if you know the people who are commenting), then keep it to..."
If you're going to be touchy, it's best to just not look. I have had some bad reviews in my time. My favourite was the one complaining about the first person narrator - which was nice, since I have never used the first person - but you cannot please everyone all the time. It's not possible. So just be grateful for the folks who do like your work and get on with the next book. I've known other authors who read every review in detail, hoping to see how to improve their work in the future. NO! the bad ones may well be the ones who haven't a clue, and listening to their comments may well serve only to destroy the individual voice of the author. It ain't worth it!
I never read reviews. The only time it would really matter is if you thought a review was bogus. It's happened that competing authors give a one-star review and say horrible things just to damage your sales. But I wouldn't know, because I don't read them. Nothing good can come of it.Michael E. Henderson
Ed Robertson, commenting in Tim McGregor's Ink Spatter blog about reviews, writes that more so than a negative response to an author's book, it's the number of reviews that matters: "[Quantity is] sort of a . . . form of word-of-mouth, isn't it? Many of the reviews may not be explicit recommendations, but they're implicit evidence that other people found the book interesting enough to pick up. A lot of reviews is proof a book passed the popularity test. Huh. So maybe I should pick it up, too..."http://timcgregor.blogspot.ca/2013/02...
Elle wrote: "Ed Robertson, commenting in Tim McGregor's Ink Spatter blog about reviews, writes that more so than a negative response to an author's book, it's the number of reviews that matters: "[Quantity is] ..."I love the title of his post!
Zahara wrote: I love the title of his post! "[..."I totally agree: it's quite funny!
Fifty shades of grey got a ton load of bad reviews. If you like to have a good laugh, look them up on Amazon.
I only didn't give 50 Shades one star because I didn't want it appearing in my bookshelves lol. (Same with Twilight.)
A.K. wrote: "I only didn't give 50 Shades one star because I didn't want it appearing in my bookshelves lol. (Same with Twilight.)"Now THAT is funny.
I just read a few and they are hilarious:)
John wrote: "... my admittedly unscientific observation is that the best way to find out about the book is to read the 3 star reviews. The one star reviews are so negative its hard to get anything useful, and 5 and 4 star reviews, unless they're lengthy, let you know its a book they liked, but not much else...."As a reader/reviewer, I find that an interesting observation. For me personally, I write the least detailed reviews for 3 star books. In most cases, 3 stars means there was nothing outstanding and nothing major to complain about. A 1 star review is exceptionally rare for me, but I think I write the most detailed reviews for 2 star books or 4-5 star books.
THE Group for Authors!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Glass Bead Game (other topics)Authors mentioned in this topic
Laurel McHargue (other topics)Michael E. Henderson (other topics)
Michael E. Henderson (other topics)
Take a look at that groups picture of a child, like seven years old, what looks like giving the world the finger. Check it out,you can find it in Groups. They are 288 strong and most will comment on your comment and just kill your ratings. I feel we have no rights here to protect ourselves what so ever. Because I gave the dam book away for free she had the ability to post the book here and kill it. I am not alone on these lists. Check out the different categories. Those three days I make it to number one, on seven of the lists now I am around 74. There are some Publishers on the list as well. Before Good Reads, I never got lower than four stars from regular people or professionals. I would love to start a group of authors to join together to combat such evil on this www. I'm am thinking about it, I doubt if Good Reads would let me. We will see. Check out how they attacked my Novel at: Murder Thy Neighbor the (My) name is William Terry Rutherford Lesson here, on this www, never comment on a review of your work good or bad - ever.