UK Amazon Kindle Forum discussion
General Chat - anything Goes
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Amazon to acquire GoodReads
I wouldn't say that we are overreacting, as no one has jumped shop yet our deleted their account... I think we are all just well aware of what happened over at the Amazon forum, and are worried that it will happen over here
plus, I don't want my purchases to come straight over to goodreads
Yeah, that's what I mean, let's just wait and see...otherwise it's all a bit like Corporal Jones in Dad's Army, maybe panicking unnecessarily..
I'm not saying we should jump ship, just that it might be a good idea to have some kind of back up place organised... just in case we have to, somewhere we can all meet. It might be great, but I find it hard to believe it, Amazon is the Borg of publishing... except the Borg are a little more tolerant of course.
Has anyone posted this yet?http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/20...
('cos I just did lol)
There are other forums out there M.T. But I can't see this one going anywhere any time soon.
I hope we won't I was thinking more of a contingency. Good link, Joo... I still don't trust Amazon though. I worked for a very much 'nicer' company and I wasn't always comfortable with what they did. Also, having written these kinds of statements myself I know that a statement like
"I don’t think there’s any specific plans to do that at this time."
Means, 'we are not implementing a stand alone plan to do this but it might happen as part of something else' and the 'I don't think' bit often means 'I am making sure I sound unsure to give you hope an because I haven't had it in writing yet'.
I do agree with him, though, that it's the data they're really after.
Cheers
MTM
It might actually work to our advantage. As for the trouble makers, I know that a few of the amazon trolls are here and active but they act according to the spirit of the group so are welcome. We haven't banned a single person yet. We had a spot of bother in the early days but easily resolved by PM. I delete the odd post but usually when I have had kippers for tea.
No jumping ship allowed....
I have a forum built and ready to go in emergency but have it locked down because Goodreads has some specific book related elements that it would be a shame to lose. I think I'm in the hitch hikers camp here... Don't Panic.
Oh I think most people here are fine, keeping options open is a good thing but I was reading the HUGE post last night when it all kicked off and a load of people posted then left, or said they were leaving. I would say give it a chance, if in 3 months or whatever after it all happens things have changed for the worst then sure move on but there were loads of doomsayers last night saying GR is finished and that helps no one. Things may well change, but that is the nature of business. Sometimes changes are for the worse and don't suit everyone but sometimes they can be positive.
MOST people on GR are well behaved or at least get the hint when told to behave. If trouble makers arrive then that can be dealt with.
It is not only authors who behave badly readers and reviewers do as well.... Not all by any means but certainly some.
Contingency plans are good, sometimes it is simply useful to have a refuge.
as part of the contingency plan, if anyone does think of leaving please contact me or Simon first with an email where you can be contacted. we miss people when we don't see them :-)
Will wrote: "Amazon again...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic..."
Amazon are also slow at paying publishers. The message is out there, they're not good people to deal with
Somebody (on another forum) pointed out that there was similar reaction when amazon bought the internet movie database, and yet, amazon, have (so far) left that to its own devices. Maybe the same thing will happen to good reads?
Until we know what will happen it is all conjecture, it could simply be things are left largely as they are and kindle people get some perks. This group is friendly and easy to be around and I can't see that changing. Amazon don't check their own forums why would they interfere here?Well said Alex and fingers are crossed.
Feel free to quote that at me in 6 months if it all goes pear shaped:)
So long as they don't implement that bloody anti-swearing robot. i want to be able to say I loathe a book without the entire post being deleted.Actually while I may be an incurable cynic I am certainly not going to throw a hissy fit and close my account. However, I am viewing this with a certain amount of wariness simply from my own business experience.
Good case scenario, Amazon is the sleeping partner, they get some data and goodreads gets loads of money to improve itself.
Bad case scenario, the original founders are gradually distanced and eventually removed. Amazon take over. This happens all the time, believe me. The VCs come in, a point comes when they disagree with the founder and they ease him/her gently - or not so gently - out.
Cheers
MTM
It's interesting -- in all these discussions, no one mentions Shelfari, which has already been absorbed into the collective.Is Amazon going to own both, or kick Shelfari loose?
Will GR sprout some of the "additional material" about books (characters, locales, "from the author") that Shelfari has now?
Does anyone have any insights into what happened to Shelfari when Amazon took it over?
I belong to Shelfari only to ride herd on the additional material for my book. I find it an annoying place to get around, with not much going on worth getting to. Is that the way it was before Amazon, or did it slide downhill after the takeover?
I am a bit of a sleeping groupie, but I like this and the other groups I belong to here on Goodreads. This is the only social site I actually interact with, and I have my books and author profile here. I publish with Amazon through Kindle and CreateSpace (BookSurge before that) and with Smashwords to just about everyone else. I like the 'everyone else' bit the best. I hope nothing changes here because I like visiting and being on here. And although I don't comment a lot, I do read a lot that others post. Many of the reviews I get come from people on here as well. I don't like exclusivity and don't want to be pushed into it. I assume readers feel the same, whether it is Kindle, Nook or an actual real paperback.
I believe MTM got it right with point 3 on the list. Kobo is the biggest selling ereader in Europe and the biggest block to both Kindle and Nook. Kobo is therefore Amazon's target as it moves back into Europe. It made the mistake of pulling the MobiReader site soon after it launched the Kindle, and Kobo took the vacant market that left in Europe. Now Amazon has sites all over Europe and beyond, but most people on the Continent already have a Kobo, and are more likely to buy a tablet than switch to a Kindle. You could buy Kobos from WH Smiths here in the UK long before Kindle made its appearance at John Lewis. Amazon is going to pull the review plug on Kobo. To coin a phrase 'A Game of eReaders.'
My personal fears are that author profiles will be moved under the Author Central umbrella and disappear from this site, or that restrictions on other eReaders will be applied. I also fear that Amazon published books will get preferential treatment, and those in the Select program even more so. A two tier system will develop, with those on the lower tier slowly fading.
Hopefully this is all just panic as someone has already said ('We're all doomed, doomed'). I think many of the deleted accounts were small publishers who felt betrayed. They had already crossed swords with Amazon and lost. Sorry, I seem to be in Dark Fantasy mode tonight.
I believe MTM got it right with point 3 on the list. Kobo is the biggest selling ereader in Europe and the biggest block to both Kindle and Nook. Kobo is therefore Amazon's target as it moves back into Europe. It made the mistake of pulling the MobiReader site soon after it launched the Kindle, and Kobo took the vacant market that left in Europe. Now Amazon has sites all over Europe and beyond, but most people on the Continent already have a Kobo, and are more likely to buy a tablet than switch to a Kindle. You could buy Kobos from WH Smiths here in the UK long before Kindle made its appearance at John Lewis. Amazon is going to pull the review plug on Kobo. To coin a phrase 'A Game of eReaders.'
My personal fears are that author profiles will be moved under the Author Central umbrella and disappear from this site, or that restrictions on other eReaders will be applied. I also fear that Amazon published books will get preferential treatment, and those in the Select program even more so. A two tier system will develop, with those on the lower tier slowly fading.
Hopefully this is all just panic as someone has already said ('We're all doomed, doomed'). I think many of the deleted accounts were small publishers who felt betrayed. They had already crossed swords with Amazon and lost. Sorry, I seem to be in Dark Fantasy mode tonight.
One thing I will be doing, I think, if my Amazon activity starts being posted to Goodreads, is dislocating Goodreads from Facebook. Everything I do these days seems to get posted as 'news' somewhere else and sometimes it would be nice to be able to scratch myself without the whole world knowing about it.Of course, this is all speculation. No one knows what difference it will make having Amazon in charge.
My hope is that the Amazon people help Goodreads figure out an easier way to navigate around the site (my only complaint about GR) and then get the heck out and leave GR alone to do what it does best--connect readers, writers, and books. It may well be that Amazon understands the loyalty GR folks feel toward the site and won't do anything that might drive those people away. That would be a good thing.
Just been reading through all the comments with interest. This was news to me as I don't spend so much time online as I used to! I have concerns, but nothing new to what has already been expressed. For those who weren't here at the beginning, the earliest members of this group all met on the amazon forums - we migrated over here when we got fed up with the no vote, the troll and general unpleasantness (although some still visit both forums); but we also wanted the extras like have book clubs, the ability to friend, pm and set up book shelves etc. I can see there being problems with the site as a whole, interference with reviews and authors etc, but I don't think that the pleasantness of this group will be affected because of the hard work of our moderators - the main problem that I can see for this group is that there will be a lot of extra work for the moderators! :0(
I'm not so worried about the trolls, apparently some of the worst offenders on amazon.com are here already anyway and playing very nicely. However, I agree that there might be a bit more work! Cheers
MTM
Forums are a bit like pubs. People tend to act according to environment. If you are in a dirty rough old boozer you fart and belch with the best of them. If you are in a posh cocktail bar you.... Well... I'm not sure what you do. I always get asked to leave after my first fart :-)
Simon (Highwayman) wrote: "Forums are a bit like pubs. People tend to act according to environment. If you are in a dirty rough old boozer you fart and belch with the best of them. If you are in a posh cocktail bar you.... ..."Mwah ha hahargh! I agree but then, the Amazon fora were quite pleasant to start with but .com has turned into something pretty grim!
Cheers
MTM
M.T. wrote: "I'm not so worried about the trolls, apparently some of the worst offenders on amazon.com are here already anyway and playing very nicely. However, I agree that there might be a bit more work! Ch..."
I've watched trolls run into moderation, having seen some who were on utterly unmodified usenet start posting to moderated forums.
To an extent it depends on the level of activity of the moderator, but by and large the trolls either find it so boring they leave before a moderator would kick them off, or they grow up a bit and play nicely with the others
Simon (Highwayman) wrote: "Forums are a bit like pubs. People tend to act according to environment. If you are in a dirty rough old boozer you fart and belch with the best of them. If you are in a posh cocktail bar you.... ..."And I just pissed myself laughing!
I wonder if Amazon might deal a fatal blow to their own forums. In the last few weeks they have clearly dealt with a lot of the 'problems' on the UK forum. It could be that they will tighten up further and force it to be no more than a technical support forum.
I am by the phone waiting for Amazon to call and tell me that this group is going to be the official UK Kindle forum.....
REALLY????Wow! How cool would that be?
As long as they don't interfere at all, of course....
Hmmm... I think they may have mislaid my phone number......
It has to be sent the official Amazon forums are not good, especially not for authors.
Simon (Highwayman) wrote: " In the last few weeks they have clearly dealt with a lot of the 'problems' on the UK forum. "As I'm an avoider of the Amazon forums, could you expand on that?
Tim wrote: "Simon (Highwayman) wrote: " In the last few weeks they have clearly dealt with a lot of the 'problems' on the UK forum. "As I'm an avoider of the Amazon forums, could you expand on that?"
Well, for starters, there was a massive spam attack that nearly washed that site of the web! When I say spam, I mean 10,000 tons of the stuff. Honestly, the first 25 forum pages were choked out with adverts for streaming football games.
Simon, I'm glad to hear that you have a plan B as I have a feeling that Amazon are not going to be happy with this group's name.
Oh yes that was REALLY annoying!It went on for ages, seems to get removed pretty sharpish now.
i'm happy about this. imdb got awesome when amazon stepped in.
R.M.F said : Simon, I'm glad to hear that you have a plan B as I have a feeling that Amazon are not going to be happy with this group's name. Interesting you should say that. This group was created when Amazon were being a bit funny about the use of their names. Some other forums were asked to change their names. We weren't, but even a simple google search brings us up as a big hitter so I think Amazon has chilled out a bit...
And remember, this is the best Amazon Kindle Forum in the UK......
What could possibly go wrong.....
Did I say that?
Maybe Amazon left us be since it is such a nice group and we must be doing a lot of business for them. Is there anyone here who doesn't have 1-clickitis?
Oh indeed I have a terminal case of 1-clickitis.... must buy more.Amazon already have me...
Alexandra wrote: "Famous last words..."Famous last words indeed. Is it just me or can you hear the sound of Amazon lawyers descending on this site? :)
R.M.F wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Famous last words..."Famous last words indeed. Is it just me or can you hear the sound of Amazon lawyers descending on this site? :)"
God, you're a little ray of sunshine, aren't you!
Well I am willing to wait and see what happens. I like it here. Most mega corps have what most people see as dubious business practices. It is not ideal and I hope it doesn't alter things for the worse and non-kindle peeps don't get pushed out.This is mostly a nice community. I did join Librarything but I am not sure how involved and I may well stay off the author side of it there. I think you can only import 200 books before you must pay.
I am happy to wait and see.
Patti (It's a grape life) wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Alexandra wrote: "Famous last words..."Famous last words indeed. Is it just me or can you hear the sound of Amazon lawyers descending on this site? :)"
God, you're a little ray of ..."
We're dealing with desperate, ruthless people! :)
We've all heard the stories of people called MacDonald who decided to open a cafe bearing their name, and then found themselves under attack by an army of lawyers.
If you want to read a balanced view on this, read this excellent blog post by David Gaughan, http://davidgaughran.wordpress.com, and the many positive comments.
It is very nice to see the logical people actually start talking..
I thought it was something along the lines of 'you've seen what we can do to you, now it's time to decide, you're either with us or you're against us... we can destroy you or... How much money would you like to come on board?'
Two teams of American lawyers negotiating... then to now is about the right time frame. Trust me, I've worked for an acquisitive behemoth (although it was pretty honourable for a big business, certainly far 'nicer' than Amazon) while McOther works with a lot of start ups who get big and then sell out... which is how you make your millions and become a venture capitalist.
I'd say that Amazon wants two things:
1. A forum that is not broken - this is cheaper than redesigning their own, also, have you ever tried to get onto the forum at Amazon.au - it sends you straight back to .co.uk.
2. It wants our data. It want's to see my 'to read' file... because I don't have a wish list on Amazon because I don't trust them. It wants to see what I've reviewed, it wants to see where I've rated a book but not read it. It wants to see what I've looked at here and what I do because in most cases, the information it can gather here, now is from people who trust the interface. And that, alone is worth paying a takeover price for.
3. It wants to pull the plug on the review system at Kobo.
Whatever it really wants, you can rest assured that making money is the top of the list and any altruistic or worthy principles professed are complete bull shit.
So yeh, I think it's a very, very BAD thing. I will have to migrate somewhere else... there must be other sites, let's all agree on one, get something started and wait and see. That way, if the group has to jump ship we can go together.
Cheers
MTM