Classics and the Western Canon discussion
The Magic Mountain
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Week 1.3 - through One Word Too Many
No one has commented (that I saw) on Behrens', the director's, snap judgment that Hans would make a much better patient than his cousin. "I can tell right off whether someone will make a competent patient or not, because that takes talent, everything takes talent and this Myrmidion (Joachim)here hasn't the least talent for it."
This raised a few questions for me:
1. What is it that Hans has that Joachim lacks? Or, perhaps, more appropriately, what is there in Joachim's character that Hans lacks? And will the differences change over the course of the novel?
2. Is he using the word "talent" ironically? If so, what is the irony? If not, what does this tell us about Behrens and the enterprise he heads?
3. If you faced an illness like TB, would you be a "talented" patient?
A related comment by Behrens adds more to our picture of both the man and what is going on here. Joachim notes that Behrens "knows how to deal with" patients who are distressed in their dying moments. They are referred to as "inexcusably weak willed." The doctor calmly orders them, "Don't make such a fuss."
All of this makes me wonder what the real purpose of the sanitarium is. Here in this remote, magical place, how should we measure "success?"
This raised a few questions for me:
1. What is it that Hans has that Joachim lacks? Or, perhaps, more appropriately, what is there in Joachim's character that Hans lacks? And will the differences change over the course of the novel?
2. Is he using the word "talent" ironically? If so, what is the irony? If not, what does this tell us about Behrens and the enterprise he heads?
3. If you faced an illness like TB, would you be a "talented" patient?
A related comment by Behrens adds more to our picture of both the man and what is going on here. Joachim notes that Behrens "knows how to deal with" patients who are distressed in their dying moments. They are referred to as "inexcusably weak willed." The doctor calmly orders them, "Don't make such a fuss."
All of this makes me wonder what the real purpose of the sanitarium is. Here in this remote, magical place, how should we measure "success?"
LOL! Wonderful questions, Zeke. Ones to be applied to life itself? (E.g., Wendel @52)3. -- I am unlikely to be a "talented" patient of any illness, whether to be talented is to fight like mad for life or to be quiescent and accepting.
Joachim notes that Behrens "knows how to deal with" patients who are distressed in their dying moments.
That throws me back to the Minos and Rhadamanthys simile -- judging who shall pass through the gateways.
Kathy wrote: "And then there's this curious quotation from Joachim: "I sometimes think that illness and death aren't really serious matters, that it's all more like loafing around, and that, strictly speaking, things are serious only down below in real life."That brings two points to my mind.
First, HC's view on death from the Baptismal Bowl section, where were are told that he felt that "there is something religious, gripping, and sadly beautiful, which was to say, spiritual about death" and at the same time "something that was the direct opposite, something very material, physical..." I found this background interesting when we see HC coming to a place which is to a considerable degree a place of death, and to wonder whether his feelings about death will change.
The second thing is the reference to "down below." Already I am seeing a division between the high up (somewhat artificial?) world of the sanatorium and the (real?) world down below. In the first sentence of "Breakfast" Joachim asks about HC's first night "up here." But add to that the curious exchange with Settembrini who says (in Santana, p.66 Woods) that HC is like Odysseus, only visiting the shades, and"how bold of you to descend to the depths" to which HC protests that "I beg your pardon -- I climbed a good five thousand feet to join you up here," to which S replies "It only seemed that way to you. Upon my word--it was an illusion...we are creatures who have fallen to great depths, are we not, lieutenant?"
This playing with up and down, height and depth, seems somewhat to parallel Mann's playing with time.
Jeremy wrote: "He [Castorp] is quite immature, and I find him quite annoying."Fascinating! Can you amplify, annoying in what way?
Zeke wrote: "2. Is he using the word "talent" ironically? If so, what is the irony? If not, what does this tell us about Behrens and the enterprise he heads?."Great questions! I wonder if we can't take the term "patient" literally (in English anyway.) Joachim wants nothing more than to leave the mountain and continue his military service, but HC is a thorough citizen. And as Joachim points out, weak-willed in regard to his cigar habit. Hans has patience, and at times he can be quite introspective, though it is mostly his body that he is focused on. Perhaps his "talent" is for neurosis. But how this is immediately apparent to Behrens I'm not sure.
Adelle wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Adelle wrote: "Satana [Why is this section called that?]"
Perhaps Settembrini is a rebel angel? Mann has a bit of fun with the comparison --
"Yes, yes, yes" [Settembrini] repeate..."
I think Settembrini is definitely devilish in this chapter. His malicious eloquence is often remarked upon, and he looks like a gentleman even though slightly shabbily dressed. If I remember aright the devil appeared just like this to Faust, and also to Adrian Leverkuhn in Doctor Faustus and Ivan in The Brothers Karamazov -- even down to the checked trousers. Settembrini is not actually the devil, but there is devilishness in the way he charms Hans Castorp and in the way he encourages him to form his own opinions.
Zeke wrote @54: "No one has commented (that I saw) on Behrens', the director's, snap judgment that Hans would make a much better patient than his cousin..."Good set of questions, Zeke, with already some interesting reactions. In my earlier post @38 I suggested that it is Joachim's military ambitions that make him a less promising recruit for Behrens. While HC, who at their first meeting is much impressed by the Hofrat, has no existing allegiances, yet.
I can only hope Settembrini will save him, because whatever Behrens stands for, it isn't much good. The Italian suggests that Behrens object is money, and money only. Pliable, impressionable people with enough savings are his choice prey. These are the talents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attic_ta...) he likes to mould until they fit in his system. But Behrens may be after more than just money.
Which brings us to the question of authority. There has been much speculation about the role of authority in German (and Austrian) culture. Foreigners have often perceived some special German susceptibility for authority. But not only foreigners. Thorwald already mentioned the success of Heinrich Mann's Der Untertan (The Subject) in the years after WW1, when the system of authority was temporarily out of order.
Heinrich had written his book shortly before the war. I guess that after the war this subject became important for Thomas Mann too.
Wendel wrote: "...talents..."Oh, I had missed the word play! Thx! lol.
Wendel:I can only hope Settembrini will save him, because whatever Behrens stands for, it isn't much good.
Although still not naming the indictment, Wendel gets specific about what I only alluded to. I think that as we read deeper we are going to have to come to terms with what the sanitarium represents. It is as much a character in this book as are the residents.
Although still not naming the indictment, Wendel gets specific about what I only alluded to. I think that as we read deeper we are going to have to come to terms with what the sanitarium represents. It is as much a character in this book as are the residents.
Lily wrote: "Wendel wrote: "...talents..."Oh, I had missed the word play! Thx! lol."
Is the word "talent," meaning aptitude or skill, used by Mann in German? Is "talent" even a German word, and if so does it have the same meaning as "talent" in English?
Wendel wrote: "while most literary heroes come with a whole bag of problems that need to be solved, HC does not."I wonder whether HC might not be more like a Nick Carraway, who shows up in this odd world totally foreign to him (wealthy Long Island) and provides observations from the sidelines about the "real story" of Gatsby and Daisy and Tom. Carraway is changed by the end of the novel, but he is not a real player, and he comes to us as an ordinary man (much as we're told HC is), and not with a bunch of problems of his own. I think it's possible Hans's role is closer to this, that he's not really our central character.
On another note, there are so many great comments here! I'm with Lily that I probably would not have forged ahead with this on my own. But I am buoyed by all of your comments!
Lol...as to H.C.'s talents! Yes, that is how it appears Hofrat Behren sizes HC up initially...someone with more potential than J who is "no good at being ill"; HC is found as comfortable (vs. sabre rattling and wanting to "clear out" ala J) and having "doggedness" ... and is thus advised to behave during his stay as if he has a slight case of TB (aha! So the word TB is mentioned...I read prior discussions where it was noted the word tuberculosis is not mentioned at least earlier in the book). I recall Dr. K's earlier warmth to H.C. as well as a potential patient and then when advised of HC's health, regarded HC as something of a phenomena...albeit Dr. K seemed a bit less happy about H.C. being an engineer (Dr. K's "smile retreated as it were, lost for the moment something of its genial warmth") (perhaps evidencing potential allegiance to another life/calling beyond the sanitarium).
Wendel wrote: "In my earlier post @38 I suggested that it is Joachim's military ambitions that make him a less promising recruit for Behrens. While HC, who at their first meeting is much impressed by the Hofrat, has no existing allegiances, yet. "Part of it may also be that Joachim seems eager to get back to his unit, to get back to work, whereas HC doesn't seem all that committed to his job, and is much more laid back (hmmm, that could be seen as a pun, given the time spent in the lounge chair) about wanting to get away. Perhaps that's because his visit has a specific end date whereas Joachim's doesn't, but OTOH that doesn't seem to me to explain it all.
Zeke wrote: " I think that as we read deeper we are going to have to come to terms with what the sanitarium represents. It is as much a character in this book as are the residents. "Stick with this thought and develop it for us as the book proceeds, if you would. I think it's a great question.
One thing the sanatorium seems clearly to represent is order, structure, and obedience. In that respect, it seems that both Joachim and HC have simply moved from one institutional life to another -- in Joachim's case, the military; in HC's case, his life so far has seemed entirely centered on school and university, both very structured institutions (particularly, I suspect, in the early 1900s), and to get away from them he goes to another just as structured institution, where he seems quite content to fit in with the ordered life. Not what I would consider much of a vacation!
Wendel @60 wrote: "Zeke wrote @54: "No one has commented (that I saw) on Behrens', the director's, snap judgment ..."Then again, dr. B. may just have wanted to warn HC that he is prone to catch TB. And should we trust Settembrini?
Adelle wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Adelle wrote: "Satana [Why is this section called that?]"
Perhaps Settembrini is a rebel angel? Mann has a bit of fun with the comparison --
"Yes, yes, yes" [Settembrini] repeate..."
Yesssss.
I'm wondering about Settembrini, too. Vacillating between thinking he might be the voice of wisdom and thinking he might be a comedian or even a fool, in the Shakespearean sense.
Everyman wrote: "This playing with up and down, height and depth, seems somewhat to parallel Mann's playing with time. "Yes, great observation! Everything is at play here: time, space, life and death. Truly a "big" novel!
I was unaware that the Italian poet Carducci, whose obituary Settembrini wrote for the German papers,was a real person--and the 1906 Nobel Prize for Literature winner as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giosu%C3...
An interesting except about his Hymn to Satan.
His political views were consistently opposed to Christianity generally and the secular power of the Catholic Church in particular.
I know neither truth of God nor peace with the Vatican or any priests. They are the real and unaltering enemies of Italy.
he said in his later years.[3]
This anti-clerical revolutionary zeal is prominently showcased in one famous poem, the deliberately blasphemous and provocative "Inno a Satana" (or "Hymn to Satan".) The poem was composed in 1863 as a dinner party toast, published in 1865, then republished in 1869 by Bologna's radical newspaper, Il Popolo, as a provocation timed to coincide with the 20th Vatican Ecumenical Council, a time when revolutionary fervor directed against the papacy was running high as republicans pressed both politically and militarily for an end of the Vatican’s domination over the papal states.[4]
Should we assume that this bit of information about Settembrini is included to elevate his stature? Or is it to associate him with the views of a man who Mann's readers would have been familiar with?
He identifies himself as a "humanist,a homo humanis. "
And, I chuckled at the way he introduced this information: "My God I am a humanist." A nice way of twitting Hans for thinking he had not recognized Hans' use of "By the devil" as a figure of speech.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giosu%C3...
An interesting except about his Hymn to Satan.
His political views were consistently opposed to Christianity generally and the secular power of the Catholic Church in particular.
I know neither truth of God nor peace with the Vatican or any priests. They are the real and unaltering enemies of Italy.
he said in his later years.[3]
This anti-clerical revolutionary zeal is prominently showcased in one famous poem, the deliberately blasphemous and provocative "Inno a Satana" (or "Hymn to Satan".) The poem was composed in 1863 as a dinner party toast, published in 1865, then republished in 1869 by Bologna's radical newspaper, Il Popolo, as a provocation timed to coincide with the 20th Vatican Ecumenical Council, a time when revolutionary fervor directed against the papacy was running high as republicans pressed both politically and militarily for an end of the Vatican’s domination over the papal states.[4]
Should we assume that this bit of information about Settembrini is included to elevate his stature? Or is it to associate him with the views of a man who Mann's readers would have been familiar with?
He identifies himself as a "humanist,a homo humanis. "
And, I chuckled at the way he introduced this information: "My God I am a humanist." A nice way of twitting Hans for thinking he had not recognized Hans' use of "By the devil" as a figure of speech.
Zeke wrote: "I was unaware that the Italian poet Carducci, whose obituary Settembrini wrote for the German papers,was a real person--...Should we assume that this bit of information about Settembrini is included to elevate his stature? Or is it to associate him with the views of a man who Mann's readers would have been familiar with?a...."
Nice find! As to the question, definitely I think to associate him with those views. As to whether his stature needed elevating, I'm not so sure that writing an obituary would do that; maybe, but I think more to associate him with those views. Which most probably Mann's initial and intended readers would know about.
Settembrini is established then (per @72 and @73) as an iconoclast. It must have pained him to be a patient at the sanitorium.
It will be interesting to see whether/how Hans falls under his influence. And also to see how he copes with the "dogmas" of the place.
It will be interesting to see whether/how Hans falls under his influence. And also to see how he copes with the "dogmas" of the place.
I haven't seen all of the posts as I'm not online as much as others, but one sharp difference between Hans and Joachim to me is the dichotomy of passive and active, or observer and actor. Joachim wants to be out in the world, *doing*. Hans is much more willing to sit and watch, to talk, to stay on the sidelines. And perhaps in some way linked to his early experiences with death of loved ones. He is attuned to death, even as he perpetually insists he's only a visitor to the house of (impending) death.
Cooper, I really like your description of this as the "house of (impending) death." It is fascinating to watch both the acceptance and acclimation that goes on here as well as the denial.
What seems largely absent --despite the fetishized use of thermometers and xrays-- is a sense of authentic struggle against the disease. There is little faith that it can be overcome.
Thinking about your phrase, I realized that, in a sense, it symbolically reflects the human condition. We are all living in the face of (impending) death.
It reminds me of a zen meditation I like: "My death is certain. The time of its arrival uncertain. What then should I do today?"
What seems largely absent --despite the fetishized use of thermometers and xrays-- is a sense of authentic struggle against the disease. There is little faith that it can be overcome.
Thinking about your phrase, I realized that, in a sense, it symbolically reflects the human condition. We are all living in the face of (impending) death.
It reminds me of a zen meditation I like: "My death is certain. The time of its arrival uncertain. What then should I do today?"
Thomas wrote: "
I love HC's reaction to all this: "What a windbag." ..."
;), and yet...in "Necessary Purchases" (Chapter 4)
(view spoiler)
I love HC's reaction to all this: "What a windbag." ..."
;), and yet...in "Necessary Purchases" (Chapter 4)
(view spoiler)
@60 Wendel wrote: I can only hope Settembrini will save him, because whatever Behrens stands for, it isn't much good""
I would agree. Analyse those dreams Hans Castorp has at the end of Chapter 3. "He seemed to see Hofrat Behrens walking down the garden path..."
A garden path sentence. Someone is going to be misled. My guess it's Hans Castorp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_p...
I would agree. Analyse those dreams Hans Castorp has at the end of Chapter 3. "He seemed to see Hofrat Behrens walking down the garden path..."
A garden path sentence. Someone is going to be misled. My guess it's Hans Castorp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_p...
Thanks, Zeke, for this information on Carducci! It seems to clarify Settembrini's views, but I'm wondering about Mann. Still coming back to the question of whether Settembrini is speaking for the author himself or not.
Coming back to what Zeke said earlier in Week 1 about "free indirect style," I think we might have an example of it a few paragraphs into "The Shadow of Respectability" where, within a single paragraph, Mann shifts from limited third-person (Hans did this, Hans did that) to the following:
"One could use other terms for his kindheartedness--an insipid phrase like 'purity of soul,' for instance, or a more serious and beautiful word like 'modesty,' or disparaging words such as 'avoidance of the truth' and 'hypocrisy,' or even a phrase about 'the mystic piety of shyness'..."
An omniscient narrator is telling the story, but in the beginning of the paragraph through HC's limited pov, and in the passage above more as an aside to the reader. It certainly isn't Hans himself thinking these things.
Wondering, Zeke, whether this is the kind of thing you were noticing earlier when you raised this topic?
Thorwald wrote: "Many put stress on the desease, on illness and death. Somehow I must have missed this topic while reading ... well, not factually of course, but for me it looks like decoration only, whereas the important part of the story is something else: The development of Hans Castorp. "To me a very important part of Hans Castorp's development is facing death without denial, which seemed to be a big part of how he dealt with his mother, father, and grandfather's deaths. Denial is appropriate for a 5-9 year old, but not for an adult. I think he also has to transcend denial of the body; this may be more a cultural norm; it certainly was for me growing up Anglo-Saxon Protestant in agricultural California. I think death and the body (corps/corporeal) meet in the grandfather's funeral in the odor of flowers hiding the odor (implied) of decay.
I like the confrontation of both issues in the young woman Hans meets on his first walk, using the hole in her chest to play a joke on him. Death and decline are absorbed into adolescent play.
Kathy provides a nice example of Mann's style @80. I think it does demonstrate the fluidity of moving between Han's pov, omniscient narration and authorial interjection--though without Mann being willing to claim the sentiment: "One could use other terms."
Zeke wrote: "Kathy provides a nice example of Mann's style @80...."Thank you both for calling our attention to these writing and stylistic examples!
At 81 Don wrote: .To me a very important part of Hans Castorp's development is facing death without denial, which seemed to be a big part of how he dealt with his mother, father, and grandfather's deaths. Denial is appropriate for a 5-9 year old, but not for an adult. .."
I have so much sympathy for Hans when I think of his childhood--the deaths of his mother, father, grandfather; and then as bad or worse, growing up at his uncle's home. I, too, think he's in denial or that he's repressing memories he doesn't want to remember. Hans is ever so good at managing to forget what he doesn't want to remember.
I have so much sympathy for Hans when I think of his childhood--the deaths of his mother, father, grandfather; and then as bad or worse, growing up at his uncle's home. I, too, think he's in denial or that he's repressing memories he doesn't want to remember. Hans is ever so good at managing to forget what he doesn't want to remember.
Zeke wrote: "Cooper, I really like your description of this as the "house of (impending) death." It is fascinating to watch both the acceptance and acclimation that goes on here as well as the denial.What see..."
Cooper wrote: "I haven't seen all of the posts as I'm not online as much as others, but one sharp difference between Hans and Joachim to me is the dichotomy of passive and active, or observer and actor. Joachim w..."
I agree with your observations. And welcome to the discussion!
Zeke wrote: "What seems largely absent --despite the fetishized use of thermometers and xrays-- is a sense of authentic struggle against the disease. There is little faith that it can be overcome."Certainly this seems the case so far. I wonder whether this will continue as the novel moves forward, or whether we will see some more active treatments emerging. But I do agree with you that there seems to be a general sense of lassitude toward the illness, almost a fatalist acceptance of probable death in an almost cocooning environment of luxury and ease.
Early in "One Word Too Many" (and what IS that word??), HC has this semi-panic situation about his heart pounding. "...if your heart starts pounding all by itself, for no earthly reason, of its own accord, so to speak, I find that downright bizarre, if you know what I mean?" I keep wondering whether this is just a function of the altitude, whether HC is sick, or what is going on with him. Presumably this wasn't happening to him earlier in his life, or he wouldn't see it as so unusual. But he certainly isn't being overly active. So why the pounding? Or is it just that being among sick people he is more aware of his body?
Everyman wrote: "Early in "One Word Too Many" (and what IS that word??), HC has this semi-panic situation about his heart pounding. "...if your heart starts pounding all by itself, for no earthly reason, of its ow..."Hypochondria keeps coming into my mind.
Laurele wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Early in "One Word Too Many" (and what IS that word??), HC has this semi-panic situation about his heart pounding. "...if your heart starts pounding all by itself, for no earthly ..."I assume the superflous word (or rather line) is HC`s faux-pas at Joachim concerning Marusja. He must renounce her because she is stained, and HC makes a joke about it.
About the heart pounding, more will be revealed at the end of chapter 4. For now I think that HC is afraid his body is starting to lead a live of its own, that he is losing control (though he is not exactly a control freak).
'...it is disturbing and unpleasant to have the body act as though it had no connexion with the soul, and put on such airs—by which I mean these senseless palpitations. You keep trying to find an explanation for them, an emotion to account for them, a feeling of joy or pain, which would, so to speak, justify them.'
The body putting on airs! It seems HC is more worried about his soul.
It seems so. It seems as though his soul or psyche is trying to tell him something through his body. (that earlier passage in MM which spoke of the spiritual or moral illnesses taking physical manafestations [spelling?])
Zeke wrote: "I was unaware that the Italian poet Carducci, whose obituary Settembrini wrote for the German papers,was a real person--and the 1906 Nobel Prize for Literature winner as well.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giosu%C3... ...."
Thanks, Zeke.
I just took a few minutes to read the Nobel presentation speech and found it interesting. Apparently Carducci was not there himself to receive the prize, so there is no acceptance speech. For those interested in this diversion:
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prize...
For those interested in this diversion:
Lily, ;)
"Diversions?".
Are you suggesting we are all guests at the Sanatorium?
I love diversions.
Lily, ;)
"Diversions?".
Are you suggesting we are all guests at the Sanatorium?
I love diversions.
Adelle wrote: "Lily, ;)'Diversions?' Are you suggesting we are all guests at the Sanatorium? I love diversions."LOL! Ah, yes, the great Diversion/Sanatorium of Life itself.
The daffodils are coming into bloom here. The ones on the shady hill really do need transplanting. [g]
Everyman wrote: "Early in "One Word Too Many" (and what IS that word??), HC has this semi-panic situation about his heart pounding. "...if your heart starts pounding all by itself, for no earthly reason, of its ow..."After Krokowski's lecture (in which he declares that any symptom of illness is a masked form of love) HC thanks God that he isn't ill, and watches Frau Chauchat leave. His heart begins to pound. (By the end of "Table Talk" he realizes exactly why his heart is pounding.)
Joachim has a similar physical reaction to the presence of Marusya, and as he and HC leave the lecture together they tacitly agree not to discuss it. Perhaps the the one word too many is "love".
At 59 Peter wrote: "I think Settembrini is definitely devilish in this chapter. His malicious eloquence is often remarked upon, and he looks like a gentleman even though slightly shabbily dressed. If I remember aright the devil appeared just like this to Faust, and also to Adrian Leverkuhn in Doctor Faustus and Ivan in The Brothers Karamazov -- even down to the checked trousers. Settembrini is not actually the devil, but there is devilishness in the way he charms Hans Castorp and in the way he encourages him to form his own ..."
Peter, something about what you wrote...
Settembrini.
"May I be permitted to ask..."
"Permit me to ask..."
Without going back and looking, it seems to me that Settembrini poses a good many such questions:
Initially, I thought only that he had nice, polite, Italian manners. But now, esp with Peter's post in mind, I'm reminded that the devil can't just enter one's home or life: he must ask permission first.
I haven't been up my mind yet what kind of influence Settembrini will have on HC. But this causes me to look more closely, more critically, at him.
Peter, something about what you wrote...
Settembrini.
"May I be permitted to ask..."
"Permit me to ask..."
Without going back and looking, it seems to me that Settembrini poses a good many such questions:
Initially, I thought only that he had nice, polite, Italian manners. But now, esp with Peter's post in mind, I'm reminded that the devil can't just enter one's home or life: he must ask permission first.
I haven't been up my mind yet what kind of influence Settembrini will have on HC. But this causes me to look more closely, more critically, at him.
Lily wrote: "Ahhh.. This thread IS here. We have been so busy posting on the first two, I think it got buried. Maybe says something about time and space as Mann explores the concepts?In terms of structure, ..."
7 years, is this not a spoiler?
Kathy wrote: "And then there's this curious quotation from Joachim: "I sometimes think that illness and death aren't really serious matters, that it's all more like loafing around, and that, strictly speaking, t..."I marked this too. There is a contrast between the Magic Mountain and the real world. At first, it seems the focus is on escaping the trap of everyday life by being at the Sanatorium. At least this was the way I was taking the discounting of time and other cares of the world.
Herr Settembrini gives us an entirely different view. Even the narrator remarks that he seems to be envious of Hans Castorp for his health. He calls the top two doctors Minos and Rhadamanthus, who were two of three judges of hell (or the underworld) in Greek Mythology. (Aeacus was not mentioned.)
He refers to Frau Adriatica as "this fossil head overseer of (Rhadamanthus') Chamber of Horrors." Thomas Mann has named this The Magic Mountain. This skeptic has called this place a Chamber of Horrors. I am interested to find out in what light Mann ultimately paints the Sanatorium and its surroundings. So far, the setting is one of the most interesting things about this work.
Wendel wrote: ""The main entrance was on the south-west side of the white building, the central portion of which was a storey higher than the wings, and crowned by a turret with a roof of slatecoloured tin.""Nice picture. My copy doesn't have the dust jacket, so it just says The Magic Mountain. Thanks for the post.
Everyman wrote: "Sue wrote: "H.C. no longer cares for his cigar and is feeling palpitations... altitude or ? (i.e. the body putting on such airs with no connection to the soul!) ha! H.C. seems to be taking well t..."I found Hans Castorp's dissertation on smoking quite humorous. I am reading the Porter-Lowe translation: "I can never understand how anybody can NOT smoke - it deprives man of the best part of life - " and then he proceeds to rate it a "first-class pleasure." As a cigarette smoker, I could identify with his words: "I only eat for the sake of being able to smoke." I can add my own testimony to the fact that the best part of a meal for a smoker is the cigarette afterwards. It also made me wonder what I am missing by not smoking cigars.
Zeke wrote: "No one has commented (that I saw) on Behrens', the director's, snap judgment that Hans would make a much better patient than his cousin. "I can tell right off whether someone will make a competent ..."You bring up some good points. It brought to my mind the Joachim's recount of the one death he encountered during his stay at the mountain. He told his cousin about the priest who came to deliver the Last Sacrament carrying "a gold cross with lanterns - it made me think of the Shellenbaum they march with, in front of the recruits."
Hans was struck by this statement not finding it a fitting analogy. I did some research on a Shellenbaum which "is an elaborate percussion instrument traditionally used by military bands" according to wikipedia. A Time Magazine article from 1941 describes it as "looking like a brass Christmas tree hung with bells and horse tails". Joachim said that the priest's cross reminds him of this. That is an odd conclusion and I cannot think of why Joachim made this observation other than that he saw the Priest marching into the sick room like a soldier would march into battle.
That led to a discussion of what "acceptable behavior" should be for those who were dying. Obviously, the young girl's horrible screams were not acceptable to the doctor on duty. I tend to agree with Hans Castorp. I think a person fighting for their next breath should have the inalienable right to kick, scream, and fight all that they want!
Everyman wrote: "Kathy wrote: "And then there's this curious quotation from Joachim: "I sometimes think that illness and death aren't really serious matters, that it's all more like loafing around, and that, strict..."There is something in this, I agree. Herr Settembrini has the most cynical view of this place and views the trip here as a descent into a "Chamber of Horrors" rather than an ascent unto "The Magic Mountain". He does not view the doctors as helpful servants doing their best to restore their patients to good health, but as greedy businessmen who purposely prolong their stay to fill their pockets. He continuously referred to Dr. Behrens as Rhadamanthus, a judge from the underworld. This Italian is a malicious character and has given us a view of the Sanatorium in diametric opposition to Joachim who doesn't seem to consider it such a bad place.
Peter wrote: "Adelle wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Adelle wrote: "Satana [Why is this section called that?]"
Perhaps Settembrini is a rebel angel? Mann has a bit of fun with the comparison --
"Yes, yes, yes" [Sette..."
Herr Settembrini is a literary man who is most proud of his obituary on Carducci. Giosue Alessandro Giuseppe Carducci (1835-1907) was a poet who won the Nobel Prize for Literature on the basis of his lifetime achievements in 1906. One of his most famous and controversial works was "Inno a Satana" (Hymn to Satan), hence this section is entitled Satana.
According to the Church of Satan.com, he embraced the mythic character of Satan as an exemplary role model and heroic archetypal symbol.
It is clear that our Italian resident not only has Sympathy for the Devil, but also for his worshipper. His dialogue disclaiming the priest's right to teach children goes right along with Carducci's anti-clerical views. The fact that the Satanic poet was his idol speaks volumes of his maliciousness towards everyone he encounters. This is probably the cause of him twisting the doctors into villains and viewing them as the enemies rather than the sickness, which they are attempting to eliminate.
Sorry to hear that. For me MM is a relief after the long struggle to reach Paradise with Dante. The mountain may be gloomy, but there is fun too. Frau Stöhr (sturgeon) for instance, with her 28 (4x7) different recipes for fish sauce.