Classics and the Western Canon discussion
The Magic Mountain
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Week 1.2 - Through Chapter 2
Adelle wrote: "I just learned last week that every word in a short story is of importance. At only 700+ pages, this is practically a short story, yes? So all the words are important."As I already wrote in the "background" section: Thomas Mann started this book as a short story and continued to call it a short story ... although it has 1000 pages in German pocket book format ...
Thomas wrote: "The narrator refers to Joachim by his first name, but Hans is more distant, and using both of his names lends a formality to his character in the reader's mind as well. "
Yes, using first and family name creates an atmosphere of respect, importance, emphasis, concern. Not necessarily distance but this can be. It is clear that Hans Castorp is in focus whereas Joachim is only Joachim.
Thorwald wrote: "and continued to call it a short story..."
Ooops. Sorry, I must have overlooked that. Kinda cool, actually, that he continued to call it a short story. :)
Ooops. Sorry, I must have overlooked that. Kinda cool, actually, that he continued to call it a short story. :)
Adelle wrote: "Now that you mention it, I find that when -- in notes -- I have referred to him simply as "Hans" he ... feels ... More approachable. Guess I will have to refer to him as "Hans Castorb.""
I have had the same discomfort referring to him as Hans in my notes. So I've settled just on HC. It seems as formal as his full name.
But I know exactly what you mean. I think the book would feel different if he were called either just Hans, or Castorp, or (worst of all) Mr. Castorp. Hans just seems too familiar, seems to bring him into closer emotional contact with me than I am really comfortable with.
Adelle wrote @51: "I KNEW there was familiar ..."Thanks Adelle, I was hoping someone in North America would comment on that. In fact Hamburg, and nearby Bremen, were the point of departure not only for German emigrants, but for people from all over Central and Eastern Europe. They would travel by train from Hungary, Poland or Russia (including the Jewish Pale) to one of these harbours and embark there. To remember this Bremerhaven has an emigration museum: http://www.dah-bremerhaven.de/english...
In chapter 2, before the story gets underway, Mann tells us something more about our hero. But in such a roundabout way that we must wonder, who is HC really? We already saw some interesting suggestions: Everyman, Parcifal, Wilhelm II. And another important candidate must have crossed our mind: the author himself. Mann's consideration of Hans' moral state is not very flattering, but it can be read as a self portrait: "And yet it is me". There is the Budenbrook background, and many little things to remind us of the author. Not least of all a certain weakness, Hans' inability to make decisions, to take a stand. A trait that, I imagine, Thomas Mann was often charged with (for instance by his activist brother Heinrich). But I wouldn't be amazed if in the end this apparant weakness turns out to be a major quality!
At the same time (everything is possible in art) I'm thinking of an elaboration of the Everyman concept. For once not as a general representation of humanity, but as a product of a specific time and place. The average (or median?) bourgeois of Wilhelmine Germany, or, even more specific, Wilhelmine Hamburg. A product - as Karl Marx would say - of the contradictions of pre-war German society.
This self image (individual and/or collective) should be understood as the result of Mann's painful self reflection during and after the long, horrible, and eventually lost war. A war that he (other than his brother - they would not talk for years) had welcomed in August 1914. But let us not forget that most Europeans were waving the flag in those days: patriotism, duty and a feeling that war would come anyway, so let it be today.
In Germany there was also a widespread idea that the land of Goethe (and Krupp!) was superior to its opponents, both barbarous Russia and degenerate France & England. The Germans truly believed they defended what was most valuable and most viable in European culture (what a pity that the military thought they had to do so by setting fire to Louvain university library - what a luck that Napoleon had already stolen most of its treasures).
The Magic Mountain will be, I expect, a quest for moral answers to political questions. To stress our point of departure I take the freedom to insert a long quotation (from the Lowe-Porter translation, p. 108-109) on its moral background:
Now, if the life about him, if his own time seem, however outwardly stimulating, to be at bottom empty of such food for his aspirations; if he privately recognize it to be hopeless, viewless, helpless, opposing only a hollow silence to all the questions man puts, consciously or unconsciously, yet somehow, puts, as to the final, absolute, and abstract meaning in all his efforts and activities; then, in such a case, a certain laming of the personality is bound to occur, the more inevitably the more upright the character in question; a sort of palsy, as it were, which may even extend from his spiritual and moral over into his physical and organic part. In an age that affords no satisfying answer to the eternal question of “Why?” “To what end?” a man' 'who is capable of achievement over and above the average and expected modicum must be equipped either with a moral remoteness and single-mindedness which is rare indeed and of heroic mould, or else with an exceptionally robust vitality. Hans Castorp had neither the one nor the other of these; and thus he must be considered mediocre, though in an entirely honourable sense.
A certain laming of the personality, in an entirely honourable sense.
Wendel wrote: "The average (or median?) bourgeois of Wilhelmine Germany"Yes yes! And I am excited to see how Thomas Mann will develop this character!
Thomas Mann already knew how these pre-war characters developed after the war (the book was published 1924) and I assume Thomas Mann plans to present a suggestion for a better way of development for his fellow-citizens? We will see ...
By the way: Hans Castorp's book "Ocean Steamships" can be read online here:
http://archive.org/details/oceansteam...
A lot of pictures in this book.
Wendel and Thorwald -- you guys are such fun to have in this conversation. Especial thanks to you both."Thomas Mann already knew how these pre-war characters developed after the war (the book was published 1924)..."
As someone born well into the 1900's, I do have to keep reminding myself, however, that MM was written before WWII --although I don't have a good sense of the years from 1918 to 1924.
Happy Easter to all! The sunrise is glorious here.
Wendel wrote: "The Germans truly believed they defended what was most valuable and most viable in European culture"This is a point that Professor Zelikow makes in his Coursera course on The Modern World. The Germans in the early years of the 20th century saw themselves as the intellectual and cultural leaders of Europe, and indeed of the civilized world. The French were degenerate, the English were a nation of shopkeepers. During the period of which Mann is writing the Germans self-identified as the primary repository of Western intellect and culture.
Thanks, Wendel for bringing that up; it may be important as a background for understanding not only HC but the novel as a whole.
Everyman wrote: "Wendel wrote: "The Germans truly believed they defended what was most valuable and most viable in European culture"This is a theme at the heart of our Western culture.
Germans then did not think of democracy and human rights and free markets when talking of Western culture - as we do today, of course. They thought more of education ("Bildung") and order. It breaks down to the question whether Athens or Sparta is the role model for the best state. Or better: It breaks down to the question whether Plato was in favour of tyranny (Sparta? Syracuse?) or democracy (Athens? Pericles?).
Who realized and understood Plato better? French and Anglo-Saxons or Germans?
IMHO it becomes quite clear that Plato was in favour of neither this nor that. He created in his last work the idea of the mixed constitution, the idea of a Republic similar to the Roman model (this in his work "The Laws", whereas Plato's work "The Republic" does not talk of a republic in our (Roman) sense. Words can be so betraying ...).
Well, then. The key problem is, that the Germans had a certain part of truth on their side when they said, democracy etc. is not sufficient. The whole struggle was not about nothing.
But IMHO the anglo-saxons were closer to Plato than the German ideas, think e.g. of checks and balances in the US constitution and the "Federalist Papers" - but when going very deep into political thought also the anglo-saxon model is not perfect.
And as you know, history has not come to an end, yet. In Islamic thought we see again another interpretation of Plato and his political thoughts. Shariah law is eminently based on Platonic thought. When Muslims say that they miss a feeling of awe and honour and faith etc. in the Western world, and that US and the British are greedy jewish merchants etc., they talk similar to the Germans at the beginning of the 20th century.
Sometimes history repeats. And it's all about Plato.
PS: I forgot the communists! Communism is also a mis-interpretation of Plato.
PS II: Not to talk of Christian adaptions of Platonic thought before the Renaissance.
At 57 Thorwald wrote: "
By the way: Hans Castorp's book "Ocean Steamships" can be read online here:..."
Thanks for the link. An actual book! Browsing it gave me some thoughts on MM regarding the next chapter.
By the way: Hans Castorp's book "Ocean Steamships" can be read online here:..."
Thanks for the link. An actual book! Browsing it gave me some thoughts on MM regarding the next chapter.
Question: Is "Platt" a form of what might be considered "lower" German? That's my guess, since it is spoken by the servants, so it's interesting that Mann notes Hans had "just a hint of Platt" in his speech, as if that somehow tempers some of his more aristocratic characteristics, makes him more an "Everyman"? @Adelle, I thought the gold fillings were mentioned as a sign of wealth. His uncle could afford them.
Wendel wrote: "In chapter 2, before the story gets underway, Mann tells us something more about our hero. But in such a roundabout way that we must wonder, who is HC......'Hans Castorp had neither the one nor the other of these; and thus he must be considered mediocre, though in an entirely honourable sense.'"
I think the quote you include here is a very nice one, and also it seems to be a bold statement by the author of the extent of human agency in life. In the modern world we hear so much about how we can overcome any obstacles if we can only believe in ourselves, that we can do anything if we try hard enough etc etc. Of course this is not true, and I think we could do a lot worse than to admire the young Hans Castorp's "honesty" in recognising which of his talents are most suitable in choosing his work. This is the sense in which he is "honourable" in his "mediocrity". Yes, he is good at painting water, and a more unrealistic person might be led to conceive that they have a gift for painting, and even try to become a full time painter, when "getting water right" is actually about the limit of their ability. Today we are given much more freedom to explore these sorts of possibilities, but I think at the expense of losing sight of the more "honest" self-conception. To the modern reader who is used to the attitude that "anything is possible if we only try" it is a confession of some personal weakness to "blame society" - we consider it a "laming of the personality"; this is why I say Thomas Mann makes a bold statement here, and this is a very well-reasoned counterargument to those who would accuse the author of underestimating human agency. Our agency is limited, however much we desire it not to be or pretend that it isn't. I think it was Joseph Conrad who said that humans don't fly like birds, they fly like beetles.
It is a challenge for us with this new freedom, who even take it for granted, to keep our feet on the ground when our heads are in the clouds. Despite Has Castorp's "proclivity to 'doze'", he seems at this stage of the book to have a practical person's suspicion of dreams because of the way they can mislead. For example, he assumes, actually intends, (Ch. 1) that he will be the same person when he returns from his three-week trip as he was before he departed.
Thorwald wrote: "By the way: Hans Castorp's book "Ocean Steamships" can be read online here:http://archive.org/details/oceansteam...
A lot of pictures in this book. "
Wonderful! It is so amazing to be looking at the very book!
Kathy wrote: "Question: Is "Platt" a form of what might be considered "lower" German? That's my guess, since it is spoken by the servants, so it's interesting that Mann notes Hans had "just a hint of Platt" in h..."
You know, that's an interesting observation. It lends, perhaps, support to a supposition I have.
No spoilers.
(view spoiler)
You know, that's an interesting observation. It lends, perhaps, support to a supposition I have.
No spoilers.
(view spoiler)
At 63 Kathy wrote: "I thought the gold fillings were mentioned as a sign of wealth. His uncle could afford them. ."
Absolutely. It could well be that Mann is only making the point that Hans Castorp's uncle had a good deal of money.
Absolutely. It could well be that Mann is only making the point that Hans Castorp's uncle had a good deal of money.
And yet it's money that Hans ultimately will not get, as his uncle quite plainly tells him. (I'm assuming the uncle paid for the fillings, I guess.) There's an interesting balance in this section in Mann's description of HC between aristocracy and ordinariness, for lack of a better word.
Kathy wrote @63: "Question: Is "Platt" a form of what might be considered "lower" German?..."Yes, it is. West-Low-German in Hamburg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Low.... In Platt: http://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plattd%....
Platt is what remained of a language that in the time of the Hanseatic League (the time of Dante!) was the lingua franca of a large region, stretching from the North Sea to the Baltic area. As the heartland of this language was also the area from where the Anglo-Saxons had migrated to the British Isles, it was somewhat related to Old English.
Economical and political developments since the 17th century caused Low-German to be gradually replaced by High-German. A top down process, first the higher social strata would change language, while some villages resisted until the present day. With its written culture aborted, and ever more influenced by the dominant language, Platt became a dialect.
The association with peasants and fishermen might be embarrassing. But for HC a trace of Platt (not more) seems rather a cause for civic pride. And something that agrees with his inborn conservatism. I wonder whether this reflects Mann’s attitude. He was born in northern Lübeck, but lived most of his live in the Deep South, in Munich.
Adelle wrote @66: about handsAdelle, you must be right, HC definitely has someting with hands.
Thanks, Wendel! Very interesting. Knowing that it probably has to do with "civic pride" does change the way I was reading it a bit.
Thorwald wrote: "By the way: Hans Castorp's book "Ocean Steamships" can be read online here:http://archive.org/details/oceansteam...
A lot of pictures in this book.
"
Fascinating! But I can't help wondering, if this is HC's book, was this book in German and is this a translation (or was it translated into German), or was HC reading it in English, which we are never told that he knew.
I couldn't find anywhere that said that Ocean Steamships was in English.
Also, I had missed it before, but I notice now that "In Grandfather’s étagère “there was a quaint old model of a ship" (21).
Also, I had missed it before, but I notice now that "In Grandfather’s étagère “there was a quaint old model of a ship" (21).
Adelle wrote: "I couldn't find anywhere that said that Ocean Steamships was in English.Also, I had missed it before, but I notice now that "In Grandfather’s étagère “there was a quaint old model of a ship" (21)."
How is the title given in the German? It certainly would not be unusual for an educated German of that day (or this) to read English.
Good question, Laurele! We will wait patiently for the German readers to tell us.
HC is reading the book in the original - a naval engineer had to know that language. But some knowledge of English would be self-evident for any educated boy from Hamburg, a business city very much oriented on London. And the Tienappel boys even have English Christian names (not because they imported wine from England one may hope).
The book title "Ocean Steamships" is English in the German original, too. Page 65 is a German steamer.
Thorwald wrote: "The book title "Ocean Steamships" is English in the German original, too..."What a neat, subtle way for Mann to tell us that Hans can read English! (Yes, I am willing to sometimes think of him as Hans, despite our character's treatment by his creator.) Thank you, Thorwald.
(Also a good example of something/knowledge that is virtually impossible -- or at least very difficult -- to preserve in translation.)
It's such a positive to have someone (two someones) who can read the book in the original language.
Adelle wrote: "It's such a positive to have someone (two someones) who can read the book in the original language."And with deep cultural understanding and familiarity with the nuances, tricks, idioms, usages, structures, et al, of that language. (The Germans have such a wonderful word for that: sprachgefühl -- literally, language feeling.)
Lily wrote: " (The Germans have such a wonderful word for that: sprachgefühl -- literally, language feeling.) "Thank you all - funny is that "Sprachgefühl" is usually used only when talking about learning foreign languages. I can't remember any case where it is applied to our own language (although possible)!
Adelle wrote: "It's such a positive to have someone (two someones) who can read the book in the original language."I certainly second, and third, that. I really appreciate the efforts of Wendel and Thorwald to enrich the discussion with background information about early 20th century Germany which any original reader of the book would have known intimately, but which I know little of.
And knowing that the title Ocean Steamships is in English in the original does add information which no translator really could be expected to give us. So yes, HC does read English. Interesting!
Everyman wrote: "I haven't figured out what the Baptismal Bowl is all about. It seems to link the generations of HC's family, and gives an excuse for his great-uncle to review some history, but many other things c..."This section reminded me of Cantos 15&16 of Paradiso, where Dante speaks with Cacciaguida, his own great-great-grandfather.
I slipped into the Church of the Immaculate Conception at 14th Street and First Avenue in NYC on Monday afternoon. It just so happened that the baptismal font there reminded much of the bowl in our story; although it was brass, it glimmered in the light and seemed of the appropriate size and shape.
I don't find a picture however: http://immaculateconception-nyc.org/
(A search of baptismal font images has given me nothing so similar.)
One of the things I have noticed links with an observation I have read elsewhere about Mann -- apparently he sustained skepticism about Freud relative to psychoanalysis. Yet, Mann does seem to buy [somewhat?] into the importance of dreams and an individual attempting to understand their significance or at least that the dream reveals things about the dreamer, whether or not the dreamer is able to discern the "what." Does that suggest a skeptical openness to exploration of the ideas of this great almost contemporary (Freud: 1856 – 1939, Mann 1875 – 1955)?Quotations and examples: (view spoiler)
Lily wrote: "Everyman wrote: "I haven't figured out what the Baptismal Bowl is all about. It seems to link the generations of HC's family, and gives an excuse for his great-uncle to review some history, but ma..."Just search in Google Images for "Taufschale" = baptism bowl, or "Taufgeschirr", and you will see plenty examples. The Castorp family is with 99% certainty a protestant family, not catholic.
Lily wrote: "..... Psycho-analyses ....."Oh, is it really "psycho-analyses" in English? It is "Seelenzergliederung" in German, literally: "Soul dissection" or "... dismembering" or the like. It's pure sarcasm or irony, whereas "to psycho-analyse" sounds not special to me.
@ 84 Lily wrote: "One of the things I have noticed links with an observation I have read elsewhere about Mann -- apparently he sustained skepticism about Freud relative to psychoanalysis. Yet, Mann does seem to buy..."
it's possible that Mann subscribed instead to the theories of Carl Jung.
Jung and Freud had a falling out. Jung--a huge believer in dreams--had ceased to believe in Freud's work.
In brief. http://www.squidoo.com/fruedian-dream...
it's possible that Mann subscribed instead to the theories of Carl Jung.
Jung and Freud had a falling out. Jung--a huge believer in dreams--had ceased to believe in Freud's work.
In brief. http://www.squidoo.com/fruedian-dream...
Thorwald wrote: "Lily wrote: "Everyman wrote: "I haven't figured out what the Baptismal Bowl is all about. It seems to link the generations of HC's family, and gives an excuse for his great-uncle to review some hi..."Lovely pitcher and plate or shallow bowl, Thorwald, but the particular baptismal bowl I stumbled across was deep and fairly broad, although not so large but what it might well have been found in a (bourgeois) home. This one did not have a separate plate, however, but rested, as I recall, on a stone surface. It was just one of those surprising encounters.
Thanks for indicating the probable faith of the Castorp family. I don't know the geography and family names of Germany well enough to make those assessments, although I have certainly encountered some of those considerations in places like the work of Sybille Bedford.
Thanks, too, for the comments on "Seelenzergliederung." Woods seems to restore some of the meaning you suggest:
"'...They make special note of his services in the brochure. He dissects the patient's psyches.'
"'He what? Dissects their psyches? That's disgusting!' Hans Castorp cried, and now hilarity got the better of him. He could no longer control it. Psychic dissection had finished the job, and he bent over and laughed so hard that the tears ran out from under the hand with which he had covered his eyes. Joachim laughed heartily, too...." p.10W
"...As they glided upward, Hans Castorp dried his eyes.
"'I'm exhausted, I've laughed so hard,' he said, catching his breath through his mouth. 'It's all these crazy things you've been telling me. The psychic dissection was just too much, I could have done without that....'" p. 11W
(These are all Woods translations. "Soul" rather than "psyche" might have retained more of the sarcasm, but likely regardless the effect would be dampened in English?)
Ah, some of the "Taufschale" images seem very applicable. I tried "Taufgeschirr" earlier.
Thomas wrote: "Mann starts by saying that the story of Hans Castorp is "covered with the patina of history." The baptismal bowl seems to be a concrete symbol of that. What is vaguely disturbing to me is that th..."
In Christianity, Baptism is symbolic of passing from death to life. Specifically, when one is buried in the water, he or she is symbolically dying with Christ, and when he or she comes up out of the water, that person is in the spiritual sense raised with the resurrected Christ. The going under identifies the partaker with the Crucifixion; the rising up identifies him with the Resurrection. The New Testament deems this practice as being "baptized into Christ", as in "the body of Christ" or the church of Jesus Christ.
Clearly, the way Hans' family baptized its children was much different than Christ was baptized in the Jordan and His followers afterwards, which would have been a complete submersion. Sprinkling water on babies is a tradition which came from the Catholic Church, and although it is handled differently is supposed to mean the same thing.
Here, it is obviously both a religious and a family ritual. This goes to show us that Hans' family were probably devout Christians in an older Protestant Denomination, which still adhered to some rituals of Catholicism. If I am not mistaken, Martin Luther was a German, and whatever denomination the family belonged to was probably some form of Lutheran.
Laurele wrote: "Why is Hans Castorp always called by both of his names?"I know that this is a Russian condition from the works of Leo Tolstoy, the author almost always referred to his characters by first and last names, each and every time. I wonder if this is the same practice in Germany. I am assuming that this is not just a literary practice, but also a cultural habit.
Thorwald wrote: "The Castorp family is with 99% certainty a protestant family, not catholic."True. Chapter 2 says they were Christian Reformed. Like I mentioned, this is probably a Lutheran denomination.
Much of our Chapter 1 discussion was on tuberculosis. There are several allusions to the disease here in Chapter 2, and I think they work to foreshadow what's coming, as well as reveal the history and probable cause of Hans' ill-health. Both Hans' father and grandfather died because of "inflammation of the lungs". I find this to be a chilling description of the grandfather's earthly demise: "He had fought out the attack on his lungs, fought long and stoutly, despite his air of being at home in the life of the day only by dint of his powers of adaptability. One hardly knew whether he had won or lost in the struggle, but in any case there he lay, with a stern yet satisfied expression, on his bed of state."
It seems to be inferred that this illness was passed down to Hans. At least, that is the way that I am reading it. I don't know much about TB, but it seems the author is showing that the problem, if not genetically passed down, at least runs in the family.
It seems the author believes this to be an environmental problem, as he demonstrates that Hans breathed the same air his father breathed: "The exhalations from water, coals, and tar, the sharp tang in the nostrils from heaped-up stacks of colonial produce;"
As someone mentioned earlier, it seems that the author is insinuating that the specific work Hans Castorp is entering will negatively affect his health: "An unfavorable influence exerted upon a man's personal life by the times in which he lives may even extend to his physical organism." This line was in allusion to his chosen profession. The "unfavorable influence" was that work was an "absolute of the time".
Of course, this brings us around to the fact that although Hans Castorp will be left "well off", his great uncle advises him that he only has about 1/5 of what he needs to be independently wealthy. Thus, giving the reader to understand that Hans Castorp must work for his living if he expects to live at the level of the class he grew up a part of.
Eerily, the author reminds us that Hans left for a stay of only three weeks. Recalling the author's introduction, he already inferred that his stay could be much, much longer.
I was surprised that no one brought up Mann's discussion of whether or not Hans Castorp was mediocre. So far, that dissertation was the hardest part of the book to follow. I had to read it several times, yet I still don't think I got the entire gist. Perhaps, those with the newer translation can shed some light on what Mann was trying to say about Hans Castorp and mediocrity.
Jonathan wrote: "I was surprised that no one brought up Mann's discussion of whether or not Hans Castorp was mediocre...."Jonathan -- I didn't spend a lot of time pondering that one -- decided to just let it play out in the story and see if I agreed. (So far, I do.) I think my glib comparison was, oh, he's not positioning Hans Castorp as an Übermensch, but I don't know Nietzsche's philosophy well enough to adequately judge what was intended. Part of what muddies the distinctions for me is that MM was written before WWII and the Nazis had appropriated the term "Übermensch," giving it the racial superiority overtones that scholars debate whether Nietzsche intended. So, if "mediocre" was being contrasted with "Übermensch," it seems to me one is still somewhat at loss as to Mann's interpretations of Nietzche, both historically and at this point in the story.
Jonathan, pin point as closely as you can the section for which you'd like to see the Woods translation so one of us can transcribe -- I'm being lazy about going to search for the passage (another time for missing ebook -- one gets spoiled by and dependent on technology in a hurry).
Page 32 in Lowe-Porter. Paragraph ending: HC was equiped with neither "a moral remoteness and single-mindedness which is rare indeed and of heroic mould, or else with an exceptionally robust vitality.
Hans Castorp had neither of these; and thus he must be considered mediocre, though in an entirely honourable sense."
You bring up excellent points to consider.
Hans Castorp had neither of these; and thus he must be considered mediocre, though in an entirely honourable sense."
You bring up excellent points to consider.
Mmm. And then I read the bottom of page 32 in a new light. It seems more important to me that when I had initally read it.
" he made up his mind to continue at school, principally, it must be said, because he thus prolinged a situation he was used to, in which no deinite decisions had to be taken."
Isn't this very close to his decision to continue at the sanatorium?
" he made up his mind to continue at school, principally, it must be said, because he thus prolinged a situation he was used to, in which no deinite decisions had to be taken."
Isn't this very close to his decision to continue at the sanatorium?
Jonathan wrote: "Thorwald wrote: "The Castorp family is with 99% certainty a protestant family, not catholic."True. Chapter 2 says they were Christian Reformed. Like I mentioned, this is probably a Lutheran denom..."
Actually, it's more likely this was the Dutch Reformed Church, which in the U.S. later became the RCA, or Reformed Church in America. https://www.rca.org/beginnings
Kathy wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Thorwald wrote: "The Castorp family is with 99% certainty a protestant family, not catholic."True. Chapter 2 says they were Christian Reformed. Like I mentioned, this is probably..."
Let me add a word on religion in Germany:
By historic reasons it is distributed regionally. In every region one confession dominates. So it is not like in the US that you express personal preferences by being member of this or that church, it is rather the region you live in. (Ok, this changed a lot in the last 100 years with so many Germans moving, but for 1914 it is true).
The Castorp family was protestant because most of all citizens of Hamburg were members of this one and only protestant church, there. If Hans Castorp came from Munich, he would have been catholic without a question.
So I suggest not to see too much in this point.
Jonathan wrote: "t seems to be inferred that this illness was passed down to Hans. At least, that is the way that I am reading it. I don't know much about TB, but it seems the author is showing that the problem, if not genetically passed down, at least runs in the family.It seems the author believes this to be an environmental problem, as he demonstrates that Hans breathed the same air his father breathed: "The exhalations from water, coals, and tar, the sharp tang in the nostrils from heaped-up stacks of colonial produce;" "
Those are some really nice points. I wonder whether a) they thought at the time that there were environmental factors to TB, and b) whether we believe that now.
Adelle wrote: "Mmm. And then I read the bottom of page 32 in a new light. It seems more important to me that when I had initally read it." he made up his mind to continue at school, principally, it must be said..."
Yes, it seems very much a character trait he is continuing at Davos. His whole life, basically, has been moving from one institution to another where his patterns of life were pretty much dictated to for him. While I can't quote precisely, I do recall a passage where, in the first week or two, even though he isn't a patient, he decided to follow the rules for patients because, after all, those are the rules of the sanitarium. Never mind that he's supposed to be on vacation and lying around for hours in a lounge chair on the balcony of your hotel room is hardly what vacationers would normally do.
I KNEW there was something familiar in what you posted. Took me awhile to make the connection.
There is a similar photo in my family's history binder. My grandmother came to America at age 5 on a similar ship: the Kronprinz Wilhelm...about 1905.
The write-up reads in part:
"In response to the blazing success of the 'Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse' and the 'Deutschland' of the rival Hamburg-America Line, the North German Lloyd commissioned their 2nd four-stacker Sep 1901. It was an express liner for the run between Bremerhaven/New York ... Intended to recapture the famed Blue Ribband from the 'Deutschland'... (steerage was $10).