Vaginal Fantasy Book Club discussion
This topic is about
Daughter of Smoke & Bone
Mar 2013: Daughter Smoke & Bone
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POST YOUR COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS FOR TOMORROWS HANGOUT!
Don't apologize you were busy giving us MOAR STUFF ON GEEK & SUNDRY :D
Agreed - NO APOLOGIES :PI should really finish reading the book - so behind with reading this month!
Does the angel lore somewhat follow “traditional” angel lore, and if not, does it bother people who have read traditional angel lore.
Mod
I'm going to lock it so we don't have two going at once, but there have been some questions there, so you might want to check it too! :)
Enjoying the book but late starting on it so only about half done.. :(
What did you ladies think about the different demon lores? While both seemed to have a simluar plot line, the actual lores behind them seemed very interesting, thought out and different.
Was it important to be introduced to the 'demons' first to get the reader to sympathise with their side?
Ok, moving this from the other thread. I thought there were a fair amount of parallels between the female protagonists in the stories. Both Tayla and Karou had a lot of real world skills, felt somewhat fairly close in age and had an essential, part of themselves hidden from their conscious minds. Yet, I found Tayla to be a lot harder to be sympathetic for/with... I really disliked her as a character though enjoyed Eidolon and the rest of the supporting cast quite a bit. Did anyone else feel similarly?
Also, I felt that Karou's character felt/acted older than 17, even with the hidden Madrigal part of herself coming through. Her school experience was much closer to university art school than a private school even if it was in Europe. I almost feel that the age/school was changed to make it fit into the YA category rather than being actually written from the POV of a 17 yr. old. Was it YA? Or was it shoehorned YA because that is a more successful market?
Looking forward to tomorrow night.
I really don't have a well thought out question... but was anyone else insanity jealous of the ladies of the Demonica series? I mean... putting aside the orgasms achieved with eye contact, the fact that the man-juices are an aphrodisiac just ISNT FAIR! And now I'll stop pouting, and keep reading this awesome series.
In DoS&B, the chimaera can use the teeth of humans, animals and apparently a few things like diamonds (for strength?) to create bodies that their consciousness will pass into when they die.If you could design the body that you would be reincarnated (is "reverented" a word?) into, what you make your next body look like? Wings? Cat eyes? Koala bear nose?
I'm also curious about the question Kelaine raises above about this book being YA or if you think that was more of a marketing choice. Further, just what is YA in your opinion?
First of all, we should praise Felicia for being true to her word; during the hangout she promised us a nasty alt and we got the nastiest one anyone could think of (if anyone knows of nastier, can I have the full list?)
If you were reincarnated, would you want to come back exactly as you were in this life, or would you hope your friends added some "improvements", whether it be animal features or just "I want to be shorter/taller", etc.
PLEASE no more YA! At least not as the main pick. I loved Pleasure Unbound- light, fluffy, and smutty. I finished it in two days. But Daughter of Smoke and Bone took me the rest of the month. The juvenile mentality of Karou and the weak romance made the book a chore to read.I understand that a lot of adults enjoy YA, but I am not a fan.
Felicia wrote: "I'm late posting this, eep!!! Please post:-Any comments/questions you want us to address about this month's books in tomorrow night's Hangout
-Any local hangouts this month you want me to shout o..."
no worries felicia we love you cos you always give us cool stuff so we forgive you always :P
I read daughter of smoke and bone and loved it, it was a nice easy read nothing too difficult which is great as works mad at the moment, loved it for really getting my imagination going throughout.Question on daughter of smoke and bone - was anyone else very frustrated by how long it took for us to find out exactly who Karou was/is?
I had guessed at who she was but i was so wanting to see it in print who she was and we didn't get that until 94% in the kindle edition
Also - Karou had only been flying for 5 minutes how on earth did she manage to know how to get herself to Marrakesh ?!!
(taken this from the thred Leah started - just in case lol)
Are there any wishes that you would make that you feel would be worth the cost? At what level? Is there anything big enough that would be worth pulling ALL of your own teeth?
If chimera were dying on the battlefield, and the went out with the censure to collect souls... Why didn't they just collect the teeth of the dead to resurrect them? It seems odd that instead they have a huge business of teeth for wishes in the human world. Did I just not pay attention to the explanation for this?
If you had Karou's necklace of scuppies, what little wishes would you make?And if you could wish your hair another color, what would you pick?
Alt book question: Wraith, Shade, or Eidolon?
And did Veronica picture any of them as Alcide from True Blood?
This might just be me, but I've been noticing that there are a lot of criticisms that Akiva is "too bland" as a character. And in other months, we've said that previous male leads are "too rapey," "too boring," "too alpha," "too perfect," etc. However, the Fictional Five thread is filled with characters from outside the romance genre, and you could make the the "too [blank]" argument for each of them if you really wanted to.Do we hold romantic leads, particularly males, at a different standard in romance genre than in general sci-fi, fantasy and paranormal fiction? Why do you think that is or is not the case?
KC wrote: "This might just be me, but I've been noticing that there are a lot of criticisms that Akiva is "too bland" as a character. And in other months, we've said that previous male leads are "too rapey," ..."My theory is that characters outside of the romanance genre are fully-rounded beings. For example Mal, Alistair, Spike, Han Solo are complex beings with endless layers to them, yet they were not primary agents in a romantic relationship.
On the other hand the romantic leads are particularly judged by how they make a relationship work.
Ariel wrote: "If chimera were dying on the battlefield, and the went out with the censure to collect souls... Why didn't they just collect the teeth of the dead to resurrect them? It seems odd that instead they..."I had the same exact thought! Also, I didn't really understand why teeth were what they needed, but whatever.
Did it bother anyone else that their relationship (before they realized who she was via wishbone) was nonexistent other than their 'butterflies'? I know that they have a history, but he literally offered to stay on Earth with her before he knew that.
Also, anybody else find it creepy that he stalked her a bit beforehand?
Lastly, I thought the book had some beautiful writing. Truly lovely lines in there. I think I re-read the one paragraph description of her loneliness three times in a row. Kindle edition, no page numbers :-( but it was towards the beginning. Favorites?
this is the first day off I've had in weeks...time to update my blog, do some writing and get cozy with my Kindle.
Am i the only one bothered by the whole tooth for wish barter? I kept immagining toothless beings drooling all over the placeAnd doesn't it make you think of the tooth fairy myth like 'damn that swindler ows me big time' ?
I'm still disturbed that they used the term "swollen knot" as a way to describe Tayla's clitoris. I don't know why of all the naughty bits in Pleasure Unbound that THAT is what I got hung up on. Curious if the girls had any similar hang ups with the Adjectives/descriptions in the book?
There was far too much "beauty" for me. Akiva is beautiful, Karou is beautiful, Madrigal is beautiful. There is so much focus on how beautiful these characters were, how people fawned over them with oohs and ahs, that I couldn't connect with their motives. Did Akiva and Karou/Madrigal really have a connection or just an attraction that tore a world apart? Romeo and Juliet sounded romantic when I was younger, but as an adult I get mad at those kids that made a bad situation worse.
When I read the description of Akiva and how perfect he was I was thinking nope not gonna like him how can anyone be attracted to someone so perfect - but - as the book progressed and more of Akivas story and personality came out especially his love for Madrigal and wanting to end the war and live a different way I was very drawn to him then - how could you not be ?!
Miss_Tessa_Melissa wrote: "There was far too much "beauty" for me. Akiva is beautiful, Karou is beautiful, Madrigal is beautiful. There is so much focus on how beautiful these characters were, how people fawned over them wit..."i believe Romeo and Juliet is the epitome of YA at its worst; hasty kids that fall in love at first sight ( like Romeo could get over his unrequitted love in the course of a dance) and adults that are rarely of help ( even the friar.... trusting the judgement of lovebugged teens!!!)
Kamil wrote: "Miss_Tessa_Melissa wrote: "There was far too much "beauty" for me. Akiva is beautiful, Karou is beautiful, Madrigal is beautiful. There is so much focus on how beautiful these characters were, how ..."I so agree! I can't stand the story or Romeo and Juliet! Shakespeare should have stuck with comedy!!
But I really don't mind reading ya books, I loved poison study an earlier ya book pick and am reading the second in the series currently, I think ya books are great for when life's treating you like crap they are great escapism :)
@Jane YA as a genre is not bad, yet as in any genre there are good and bad apples
Jane wrote: "When I read the description of Akiva and how perfect he was I was thinking nope not gonna like him how can anyone be attracted to someone so perfect - but - as the book progressed and more of Akiva..."Then he killed off an entire race of people! How can you destroy an entire race because of what just some of them did? Yeah, maybe he goes after Thiago, but not every man, woman, and child. So he finds out that Madrigal is Karou, and he's sorry now. That really doesn't make him less of a monster. Not very attractive to me.
FYI: Not trying to argue or start anything negative, just putting my point of view out there. I liked the book, as a whole. I just had a few issues, and I can only speak for myself.
Miss_Tessa_Melissa wrote: "Then he killed off an entire race of people! How can you destroy an entire race because of what just some of them did..."that's called the anakin syndrome
Miss_Tessa_Melissa wrote: "Jane wrote: "When I read the description of Akiva and how perfect he was I was thinking nope not gonna like him how can anyone be attracted to someone so perfect - but - as the book progressed and ..."both sides we're also bred to fight, it was deeply ingrained within them as people - and losing someone can make you incredibly angry - though I'm not excusing his behaviour - and I appreciate all different viewpoints within these threads so no worries Miss :)
Kamil wrote: "Miss_Tessa_Melissa wrote: "Then he killed off an entire race of people! How can you destroy an entire race because of what just some of them did..."that's called the anakin syndrome"
*rofl* yay a star wars reference in the vaginal fantasy threads woot!
I'm starting to think that Young Adult might be like Mary Sue: a ill-defined term that is misused enough that now it is more dismissive than useful. YA is really just a marketing concept. It doesn't say much about the book itself. It's just a category, and a very broad one at that. It's like saying one doesn't like French food, black & white movies or cities with the letter "M" in them.
speaking of Mary Sue; it's not only a bether projection of an author (after all each character is a projection of a small part of an author's personality) it's a character capable of doing anything, yet the author often doesn't give his character enough chances to show her/his true possibilities. It's as if we are promised a choclate cake but get a biscuit instead. The term became derogative since it got associated with poorly-executed fanfiction (like the story of a girl growing up in gondor and she manages to captivate Aragorn's heart... true story! i've read something like that). Is it right to mock a whole, deliscious,mouth-watering archetype and use it as an insult?
One thing I need to point out; I've been re-watching the old hangouts and there is a mistake n-one pointed out; during the casting discussion Eva Green is often mentioned, yet Morgana was actually played by Katie McGrathand what saddens me is that no one pictures Rob Shneider as a potential choice
Kamil wrote: "My theory is that characters outside of the romanance genre are fully-rounded beings..."I think that's an interesting point. Especially since you brought up Spike, many fans have forgiven him for a lot of heinous things, and I think it might be because he's fleshed out as a character. I can't speak to Alistair as I'm not a gamer, but characters like Mal, Han and Spike are a**holes who have killed people, and yet we love them because we as the audience know they have reasons for what they do. I just wonder if you read a character like that in a romance novel if we would have lower opinions of them? I ask because I don't read a lot of romance.
My own theory about it is that we project an image of ourselves, especially our ideas of a romantic partner, onto the main character and when they go against that idea of the reader's perfect mate, we criticize their taste in men/women. Like we have our own vision of what the "perfect" man or woman is, and we're on the look out for something similar for the female lead. Does that make sense? Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I know that for me personally that it might be a small part of it.
Kamil wrote: "One thing I need to point out; I've been re-watching the old hangouts and there is a mistake n-one pointed out; during the casting discussion Eva Green is often mentioned, yet Morgana was actually played by Katie McGrath."Different show. Katie McGrath is Merlin. Eva Green is Camelot.
Gary wrote: "Kamil wrote: "One thing I need to point out; I've been re-watching the old hangouts and there is a mistake n-one pointed out; during the casting discussion Eva Green is often mentioned, yet Morgana..."thank you, I'm glad to find out it's MY mistake, otherwise I would loose all faith
Kamil wrote: "thank you, I'm glad to find out it's MY mistake, otherwise I would loose all faith "You're welcome. Easy mistake to make. They do look a lot alike in the stills.
Fortunately or unfortunately, I have Eva Green's torso emblazoned on my neural matter like the after image of a nuclear blast on film cartridges miles away from ground zero. It's an issue. She's my Hiroshima. I'm sure I'm not alone in suffering this particular kind of radiation sickness. Katie is a hotty... but she's a conventional weapon.
(There. Happy "Unsexy adjective" thread participants? I went militant/warfare on y'all.)
Jane wrote: "Kamil wrote: "Miss_Tessa_Melissa wrote: "There was far too much "beauty" for me. Akiva is beautiful, Karou is beautiful, Madrigal is beautiful. There is so much focus on how beautiful these charact..."I don't know, I think Romeo and Juliet gets a bad wrap. Don't get me wrong, I hated the play when I was a teenager and while I appreciate it more now it's still not my favorite Shakespeare play. (That would be Macbeth and The Tempest.) I think Romeo and Juliet has been overplayed as a tragedy about young love being true love. If we put it in realistic standards, then yes, that play is ridiculous in terms of romance. But the entire course of the action takes place within the span of a week. This happens in a lot of romantic comedies too. The way I see it is that Romeo and Juliet is a romantic comedy gone wrong. It has all the same set ups as a romantic comedy like Much Ado and Midsummer, but I think there's a quote that says "the difference between comedy and tragedy is timing." But I can understand why people would want to read or watch something that isn't about instantaneous love... some of my favorite movies and books feature love stories that take place over the course of months or years.
Gary wrote: "Kamil wrote: "thank you, I'm glad to find out it's MY mistake, otherwise I would loose all faith "You're welcome. Easy mistake to make. They do look a lot alike in the stills.
Fortunately or u..."
if by conventional weapon you are talking about the ray that destroyedAlderaan, then I know your sorrow
Did anyone keep defaulting to a "labrynth" or Henson-esque world in there imagination? It was out of control for me, my brain was ready to have them break out in song in Brimstones office. I loved the besties relationship but it seemed a bit flat, kind of a buffy meets lost girl thing but without the emotional or relational background?
Did anyone feel the young adult in this book meant that everything from the romance to the friendships were simplified or dumbed down ( sometimes funny and sometimes well envisioned but really 2 dimensional) reminds me of sex scenes in Gabriel's ghost where sexual enjoyment looks like rainbows in your head.
***If you guys could be any CHIMERIC Combo .. what would it be? :) ***
I loved the fact that Daughter of Smoke and Bone was set in a city which I don't often get to read about in urban fantasy: Prague. It seems like most vaginal fantasy set on Earth is in the major North American cities or London. Are there any cities or locations in the world which you would like to see more of in vaginal fantasy books?
@KC, Romeo and Juliet is all about "timing", if they just moved carefully (young love demands patience otherwise it will be a tragedy ) there would be more chances of a HEA; it's not like Shakespear was plagued by the Carrionites. One more comedy wouldn't hurt him
Philippa wrote: "I loved the fact that Daughter of Smoke and Bone was set in a city which I don't often get to read about in urban fantasy: Prague. It seems like most vaginal fantasy set on Earth is in the major N..."Rome has some pretty neat streets (but also dark-alleys I wouldn't visit unless heavily armed) and urban legends. and it would be close to the vatican... it just shouts supernatural forces at play (I would be content with some cattle stampeeding)
What do you think of Jeremy Irons or a late ninties David Bovie cast as Brimstone ?
KC wrote: "Kamil wrote: "My theory is that characters outside of the romanance genre are fully-rounded beings..."I think that's an interesting point. Especially since you brought up Spike, many fans have fo..."
For example many people fancy the goblin king, right? But immagine living with Jareth... you'd get daily visits by the police searching for missing kids.
-Any comments/questions you want us to address about this month's books in tomorrow night's Hangout
-Any local hangouts this month you want me to shout out.
SORRY FOR THE LATENESS!