2013 - May Theme Read - The Battle of the Bulge

[Singleton]

Mike wrote: "Thanks Singleton. I can recommend as a great resource to find out what units were engaged at Celles, when, where, results, etc. Unbelievable details. One warning...the book is as exciting as cold oatmeal. Great maps though. Just finished and it has dampened my interest in the battle for now."
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Thanks for a very interesting suggestion, I've put it on my TBR-list.

Didn't go to Celles even though I was very close. Next week I will give it another try as I will be at Givet.
Montheremé was a most interesting visit. One of the friends who was with me on the hike was interested in WWII as well so I sort of 'guided' him around while we walked around Monthermé and crossed the ridges to the north and east.
On the Semois (Belgium) I found two partly destroyed-railway bridges from the pre-war period. Haven't been able to find anything about them in the literature. They could have been blown up by the retreating French in may 1940. Another interesting search for more infor thus.

[Singleton]

From all the above chats and the books most of you are reading it is almost like the Battle of the Bulge was mainly focussing on Bastogne whilst it was of course only a sideshow.

[happy]

my thoughts on Alamo in the Ardennes: The Untold Story of the American Soldiers Who Made the Defense of Bastogne Possible

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

[happy]

Singleton wrote: "From all the above chats and the books most of you are reading it is almost like the Battle of the Bulge was mainly focussing on Bastogne whilst it was of course only a sideshow."

I don't know if I would consider it a "sideshow", it was one of two the road nexus' the Germans had to have. The emphisis given to it in the canon is overwhelming and hard to avoid.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

I think we all agree that Bastogne gets a lot of coverage to the detriment of other fine actions carried out by allied soldiers during the Ardennes offensive but also have to agree that Bastogne played a significant role in congesting and slowing the German advance. In the book I read the author’s provided details of how holding Bastogne affected the German plans but they also made a point of identifying units other than the 101st Airborne involved in the towns defence.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

It's interesting in that today the Battle of the Bulge seems to be "Bastogne" and to some extent is the 101st Airborne's battle as "Arnhem" is for the Parachute Regiment, and whilst both units played significant parts in the respecitive battles others did too (e.g. at Arnhem/Oosterbeek the Border Regiment, King's Own Scots Borderers, South Staffordshire plus Royal Engineers, Royal Artillery, Royal Army Medical Corps etc).

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Good point Geevee.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

What books are other members reading on this battle?

[Bruce]

A Time for Trumpets: The Untold Story of the Battle of the Bulge

I just finished A Time for Trumpets by Charles MacDonald, who actually fought in the battle as a young company commander. The book was interesting, but I would not recommend it for someone who has not read previous books about the battle. MacDonald tells us that he wants to share the stories of the soldiers who fought the battle and he does that, but he tells the many stories of the battle at such a granular level that it is difficult to fully appreciate the significant or relation of many of the vignettes to the overall battle. Unfortunately, the maps in the book are also very poor, so they do not help much either. The many individual action stories are very interesting, but they fail to make a compelling overall narrative.

That said, if you have a good familiarity with the overall battle and want to learn more, this would be a good read. It covers the whole battle (without just focusing on Bastonge) and provides the soldier's perspective.

The most interesting thing about the book is the way it reminds you that most of these battles that we read about are not decided by the generals or neat battle plans, but the actions of individual platoons, the presence of a tank or piece of artillery at a particular moment, the availability of gasoline and the importance of road networks.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Hi Bruce,

Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts and views on A Time for Trumpets as I am sure a few members will be quite interested to know more about the book. I only recently picked up a copy of his personal account of this battle; Company Commander: The Classic Infantry Memoir of World War II, however I am yet to read it.

by Charles B. MacDonald

by Charles B. MacDonald

[Bruce]

The Company Commander is excellent. I read it several years ago.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Thanks Bruce for the views. Have you seen these two volumes of the US Army official history by him too:
http://www.history.army.mil/html/book...
http://www.history.army.mil/html/book...

The maps are superb and the writing, again if you've some knowledge of the wider operations, is excellent. I think you'd enjoy them if you haven't explored them yet.

[happy]

I read Company Comander as a teenager and thougth it was excellent. I read it again as a PME reading assignment while on active duty and it confirmed my opinion. It's been over 30 yrs so I guess I'll have to read it again and see if it is still excellent :D

[Dhiraj]

Hi..I am not sure whether I should post this query on this thread but this concerns the Battle of Bulge so here goes.
Otto Skorzeny led a squad of Germans dressed in US Uniforms behind the Allied lines with the intention of creating general confusion, generating misinformation and adding to the prevalent chaos. They succeeded to an extent by feeding false info to the Americans till a few of them were caught and three of them were executed by firing squad by US Forces.
What I wish to know is that did the Allied forces ever carry out similar operation behind German lines..I remember vaguely that something like this was done during the closing stages of war, only am not able to recollect :(
Would appreciate your reply :)

[A.L.]

Finished and really enjoyed it. Posted a few thoughts here: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

[happy]

Nice reveiw AL

[A.L.]

Dhiraj wrote: "Otto Skorzeny led a squad of Germans dressed in US Uniforms behind the Allied lines with the intention of creating general confusion, generating misinformation and adding to the prevalent chaos. They succeeded to an extent by feeding false info to the Americans till a few of them were caught and three of them were executed by firing squad by US Forces.
What I wish to know is that did the Allied forces ever carry out similar operation behind German lines..."

I don't have specific examples, but here's a quote from The Longest Winter: The Battle of the Bulge and the Epic Story of World War II's Most Decorated Platoon on the subject:
Brought to trial at Dachau ... [Skorzeny] was spectacularly acquitted on all charges after British wing commander Yeo Thomas, the famous "White Rabbit," testified that British agents acting behind German lines had, like Skorzeny's men, dressed up in enemy uniform. If Skorzeny was to be hanged for ordering his men to do the same, then Yeo Thomas and many other should also meet the same fate. Prosecutors had dug long and deep to try to pin a specific atrocity on Skorzeny but had failed.

[A.L.]

happy wrote: "Nice reveiw AL"

Thanks Happy!

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Great review A.L. thanks for sharing.

[Dhiraj]

A.L. wrote: "Dhiraj wrote: "Otto Skorzeny led a squad of Germans dressed in US Uniforms behind the Allied lines with the intention of creating general confusion, generating misinformation and adding to the pre..."

Thanks for the info A.L :)

[Tionne]

A.L. wrote: "Finished and really enjoyed it. Posted a few thoughts here: http://www.go..."

Great review! I thought the book was fantastic as well.

[Colin]

A.L. wrote: "Dhiraj wrote: "Otto Skorzeny led a squad of Germans dressed in US Uniforms behind the Allied lines with the intention of creating general confusion, generating misinformation and adding to the pre..."
The British ran similar operations thorugh Yeo-Thomas (see the book The White Rabbit) and the SOE throughout Europe. Yugoslavia was a big target of SOE disinformation missions, along with OSS operations there and in France, Belgium and Italy.

[Betty]

Good review A.L.!

[A.L.]

Thanks Rick, Tionne, and Betty!

Dhiraj, here's the Wikipedia link on Yeo-Thomas. It says he wore a German uniform while with the SOE in France: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._F._E....

Colin, I'm adding that book to my to-read list!

[Colin]

Good book indeed. My book German Anti-Partisan Warfare in Europe, 1939-1945 (2000) covers a lot of the SOE and OSS operations, with interviews and new information that irritated a few people. Destroying old myths is a tough job.

[Singleton]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I think we all agree that Bastogne gets a lot of coverage to the detriment of other fine actions carried out by allied soldiers during the Ardennes offensive but also have to agree that Bastogne pl..."

Well, the reason I brought it up is because the battle of Bastogne was fought after the tip of the German spearheads were already halted and after the city was first bypassed by the German Panzerdivisions. Only then did Hitler turn his focus on this roadhub (which had been bypassed previously) and becamse determined on taking it.
So yes, in my book that's a sideshow as it didn't influence the succes or failure of the campaign as much as the 'general history' wants us to think it did.
Of course it is a great story and the 101st shine in their roles as heroes of the Bulge, but units like the 82nd did more to stem and reverse the German tide in the end.

[Jerry]

I've been reading No Silent Night: The Christmas Battle For Bastogne and though I'm progressing slowly, this books is fantastic. At first I wasn't a big fan of the narrative action, but now I'm hooked. The battle scenes are really coming to life.

[Tionne]

That one is on the TBR pile, Jerry! Glad to know its fantastic! Maybe I'll have to bump it closer to the top of the list! :-)

[Laurel]

Tionne wrote: "That one is on the TBR pile, Jerry! Glad to know its fantastic! Maybe I'll have to bump it closer to the top of the list! :-)"

Also in my pile... Not sure what I will bump down, to move it up. It is sitting on my virtual bookshelf, waiting to be read.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

I think you will all enjoy No Silent Night, another good aspect of the book is it tells the story from both sides using first-hand accounts.

by Leo Barron

[Jerry]

I completed No Silent Night: The Christmas Battle For Bastogne and posted a short review of it. In a word: awesome!

Here's the review http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Nice review Jerry, thanks for sharing. I am sure a few more members will grab a copy of this book.