Clockwork Princess
discussion
*SPOILER* THE ENDING FOR CP
Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "Jade wrote: "Nurlely wrote: "Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "Because of the yin fen in his system, it wouldn't allow certain runes to be placed on him. So because the runes are powerful, it obvi..."But the stitches would have been physical damage wouldnt it?
The runes the Silent Brother's use are a lot more powerful than the normal ones of shadowhunters so they scar more. But surely and iratze would heal the scars left by a physical scar such as stitches?
Krista (One Love) (Critical) wrote: "Astoria Malfoy wrote: "Krista (One Love) (Critical) wrote: "Astoria Malfoy wrote: "Krista (One Love) (Critical) wrote: "Astoria Malfoy Yeah, I'm not a fan of tragedy but even I can see the (awful) ..."She is a handful, I was in class, and she emailed me, so I read and cried, cause Tessa loving Jem while she was also loving and living with Will is kind of gross and her immortality is no excuse, I believe MAGNUS told Alec on City of Fallen Angels that he would be his last love- or something along those lines-, Magnus has been alive longer than Tessa, and he was willing to only love Alec for his eternity, now, that is romantic
Astoria Malfoy wrote: "Krista (One Love) (Critical) wrote: "Astoria Malfoy wrote: "Krista (One Love) (Critical) wrote: "Astoria Malfoy wrote: "Krista (One Love) (Critical) wrote: "Astoria Malfoy Yeah, I'm not a fan of tr..."Yeah, I feel like everyone is more lenient on females. Like, it's the man's job to be romantic. But I think love and romance should go both ways. And you're right, it IS very gross. I adore Magnus.
Krista (One Love) (Critical) wrote: "Jade wrote: "Krista (One Love) (Critical) wrote: "Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "Jade wrote: "I think a lot of you are being a bit harsh on Tessa. Back when both Jem and Will were alive, she lo..."Although school shootings are serious and scary events, I'm not entirely sure it compares to saving the world from clockwork devices, killing demons, not quite the same bonding?
I'm not trying to say school shootings are not life threatening or anything, I'm just trying to say that the three of them went through a lot, over a long period of time, with many many obstacles. Having only the institute and each other to rely on, it would be a situation to create strong and lasting bonds. After all, in 2008 there was no one left who understood what they all went through at the time, only Jem and Tessa were left, and in a few decades, only Tessa only would remember
Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "I thought an iratze doesn't heal scars, it only heels the wound or scar while it's still fresh or not faded."they could have applied the iratze immediately after removing the stitches?
I understand that the scars on his cheeks were from runes. But don't the Silent Brothers have the eyes and lips stitched shut as well? I'm saying the scars from those stitches could be healed with an iratze and so wouldnt be seen when he left the Brotherhood
Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "He spoke in CP2 because he hadn't gone through the Silent Bro process fully. Plus, learning how to acess the speech of mind and speed will take him much longer then any other Silent Bro.So by the time in COLS, he was able to speak through the mind. "
Those silent brothers 'speak' that way because they can utter any words with their mouth stitched. If Bro Zach's lips were never stitched, why didn't he say any words like a 'mute' in CoLS?
It is a silly thing to ban anyone from saying things when they have mouth to do so.
Speaking of which, if his mouth were not stitched, any shadowhunters would have noticed the difference. If they can feel the emo in Bro Zach, why didn't anyone notice his 'free-of-stitches' lips?
I'm starting to worry about my communication skills....I'm trying to say Jem DID have the stitches, but since they are physical wounds they can be healed with an iratze once they are removed and he has left the brotherhood. Unless it states in TMI somewhere that he doesn't have the stitches at all?? (its been a long time since ive read the books)
And also those hollow eyes? Did anyone say anything about Bro Zach being a special Silent brother in CoLS beside his emo? That he is also different? With eyes and unsealed lips?I think I need to re-look at my CoLS.
Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "STITCHING:Because of the yin fen in his system, it wouldn't allow certain runes to be placed on him. So because the runes are powerful, it obviously made them stitch their eyes and mouths.
So tha..."
I wonder why you always come back to CP2. I was implying to possible inconsistency between Bro Zach in CoLS and in CP2. You did awesome thing by repeating the sentences in CP2, but you also missed the possible inconsistency between 2 books.
I said possible, because I read CoLS long ago I might have missed many things.
Jem probably just followed the rules and customs of being a silent brother. being in the silent city all the time, there wouldnt be much need to speak anyway.and i think they do mention jem is one of the younger brothers? maybe that explains to them why he is slightly different. and having the yinfen he wouldnt have undergone the entire ritual to become a full Silent Brother
OK, glad we sorted that out! hahaha, i think i will go reread TMI over the holidays and try link some stuff together.So now the mystery is why no stitches? maybe you only get them at the very end of becoming a silent brother, and since he was slower due to yinfen, he never got to that stage?
wonder why they need to sew their eyes and lips shut anyway? how do they see where they are going??
Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "Yes! I agree soo much with you! I was soo heartbroken when Will died. Like we all knew eventually he would but "oh god" it was sooo sad. It was bad enough we had to read about Tessa mourning his de..."Yeah, and I think Jem also got it better because he's going to be around during the time the Dark Artifices is being written. So maybe we'll see glimpses of him and his life with Tessa, but I don't like that because they're missing Will. That, and we won't we see any more of Will but we'll still see some parts of Jem. It just makes me so sad.
CynthiaElle wrote: "@Beverly i too was happy with the book and i love will i love his character so much. I was happy that he got to live a long and happy life to be with the women he loved and have kids and grandchild..."I just met Cassandra Clare at her book tour signing and I asked her why she included Will's death. She said it was because she wanted people to see how the life of an immortal person is like. That it's real how the other person will age and die while the immortal continues to live on without them. I guess it makes sense since the same will happen with Jem and then with Isabelle and Simon and Magnus and Alec, but it still made me very depressed.
Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "In TMI, when Clary looked at him, I don't think he had stitches, she described him with none and I guess better looking then the other Silent Bros.So no, he didn't have stitches, BUT if he DID then yes, I don't see why they can't use an iratze.
"
Uhmm... I am reading CoLS now, went straight to Bro Zach. Clary didn't say anything that differentiate him with other si-bro. The silent brothers Clary has known are those with hollow eyes and stitched mouth.
Others picked up Bro Zach's emo. Nothing else special.
Iratze can heal lost flesh too? This is interesting. So they can grow up an ear if something nasty bite it then?
Krista Yeah, I feel like everyone is more lenient on females. Like, it's the man's job to be romantic. But I think love and romance should go both ways. And you're right, it IS very gross. I adore Magnus. "It's hard not to love Magnus, he has got to be my favorite character in the whole series, with one Isabelle Lightwood. I think what hurts the most, is the fact that at least in my eyes, this love triangle had a lot more potential, and instead Clare couldn't pick, it seems as if she couldn't make up her mind at the end and so she tried to please everyone. *maybe now, I'll finally be able to read City of lost souls
Jade wrote: "wonder why they need to sew their eyes and lips shut anyway? how do they see where they are going?? "Maybe like the use of ultrasound in bats to find their ways in the darkness, those silent brothers are cut from their ability to see and speak to enhance their sixth sense. They live their life for shadowhunters they practically are not suppose to be tempted by seeing pretty ladies... LOL
Jade wrote: "I think a lot of you are being a bit harsh on Tessa. Back when both Jem and Will were alive, she loved them both. Maybe some people can do that, love two people equally, and maybe some can't.And t..."
I agree with you. Anyway, when Tessa was with Will, she said that Jem as a silent brother wasn't her Jem anymore. He was a different person at that point so she possibly didn't love him as much as she loved Will. But once Will was dead and Jem stopped being a Silent Brother and returned to his old self then Tessa was able to fully love him again because her Jem was back.
And like you said, being with Jem will make them both happy. I imagine Tessa must be very lonely and sad since she doesn't have any of her original family from the institute and she is estranged to her own descendants. Jem doesn't have anyone since he was secluded for so long and so they have a common ground again. But they also love each other from all those years ago. They have each other's company and their love to keep them happy until Jem dies, at which point I imagine Tessa will be lonely again.
I don't blame her for going to Jem. She doesn't have anyone anymore and their time together is limited.
Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "Nurlely wrote: "Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "In TMI, when Clary looked at him, I don't think he had stitches, she described him with none and I guess better looking then the other Silent Bros..."I usually removed all my ebook versions when my paperback/hardcover editions arrived. But then I think they are very useful when I need to re-read some parts.
I am now keeping my pdf and epub versions of each TMI and TID books... ;)
Chloé天才 Ƨнα∂σωнʋитɛяǤιяℓ ♉ wrote: "Your so lucky, I have to put a page marker in the book since I haven't got an ereader or ebook or which ever;(Though I prefer the book:-)
"
Not that lucky. I can only get paper edition 2-3 weeks after it is released. That is why I am an ebook hunter... LOL. And we do not have Kindle or Nook here. I use tablet or notebook to read and get my eyes red after a while.... hahahaha
Yes for books. Nothing can beat the smell of new books when we flip the pages!
I think the epilogue would have been so much better if it had something to do with what is going on in TMI. It would uave been awesome if maybe there was some sort of cliffhanger that linked into TMI. Like maybe clary and jace comes to her for help or something. Idk. I didn't really like the epilogue that we have now. It was just horrible reading about Will's death and then tessa and jem just suddenly get together. It was horrible to read. I was a complete wreck reading that. I was so happy when Will intorduced tessa to his parents. And then I read the epilogue and I just coulnt stop crying after I read it.
I totally loved it! I mean those who are saying that Tessa's love for will lessened i don't believed that at all. Remember what Magnus or was it the wolf that "Most people are lucky to have even one great love in their life. You have found two" And I think that Will would like Tessa and Jem to be together, to have a chance to be happy. Can you believe it after 130 years?! Tessa was all alone living an immortal life while all her loved ones and friends die while Jem was enduring all of those year being a silent brother not even sure if he has a chance to be with Tessa in the end!
In the end I was just crying the whole time reading it!
I could even say that the ending is a miracle for both fans of Jem and Will, and also to quote one from the book again ‘One does not question miracles, or complain that they are not constructed perfectly to one’s liking.’
Bryan wrote: ".."Most people are lucky to have even one great love in their life. You have found two" ..."It was Woolsey. He also said this:
“One can love two children. But your heart can be given in romantic love to only a single other,” said Woolsey
That epilogue was beautiful I haven't cried that much over a book in so long.
I think iratze is only for superficial flesh wounds? remember when Will (?) had those shards taken from his back? they said they couldnt use an iratze because then the skin would just cover the metal shrapnel. wounds from stitches wouldnt be that deep, they could probably apply another rune to regrow flesh if needed. but a whole ear might be out of the question as there would be cartilege and stuff, as well as the shape and connections to the other parts. magic might be able to, but i dont think runes couldI dont know if Woolsey is a good authority on love. he seems rather cynical about everything. or maybe he was a romantic, believing love is only between two people.
I would love to comment on this Brother Zach conversation. I looked up the first meeting that Clary has with Brother Zach last night. It said something like, Clary was unsurprised to see the face of the Silent Brother but that there was too much shadow to see his eyes.I believe that this implies that Brother Zach, does indeed have the stitching on his mouth. As for the eyes, the story leaves them a mystery.
Actually the few moments before that I think are more important. When Clary's mother sees him she says, "But, Magnus said that you would never-" and Brother Zach says "desperate times call for desperate measures."
Can we all please talk about how HEARTBREAKING Will's death was? I don't think I'll ever be able to recover from that death
it was heartbreaking..i feel idk what it is exactly but reading about his death what am i suppose to do about this. Will is dead and tessa and jem get to live a long life together atleast thats what i imagine all the time even though i know jem will die to but knowing Will is dead.i dont think i will recover either :(
Having read the book I can say it does happen. My grandmother fell pregnant with my uncle back in the early50s and married the man and had my father and 2 more kids. well my grandad died when she was 77 she then moved back to the place she was born and married a guy that she loved before she fell pregnant with my uncle, she died 5 years later. If she had never of fell pregnant she would have never have married my grandfather, she loved him but she loved the other guy too, circumstances meant that she had to stay with my grandfather and she did doesnt mean she loved him any less, to stay with someone for 50+ years you have to love them.
You can love 2 people at once, you are either ruled by your heart or by your head. After a husband / wife dies you move on, you have too. Its normal to want to have a close pysical and emotional relationship, it doesnt devalue the love you felt for the deseased and they would want you to move on and be happy.
Nurlely wrote: "And also those hollow eyes? Did anyone say anything about Bro Zach being a special Silent brother in CoLS beside his emo? That he is also different? With eyes and unsealed lips?I think I need to ..."
From City of Fallen Angels (Ch. 6):
"The Silent Brother pushed his hood back very slightly from his face. Clary held back a
start of surprise. He didn’t look like Brother Jeremiah had, with his hollowed eyes and
stitched mouth. Brother Zachariah’s eyes were closed, his high cheekbones each marked
with the scar of a single black rune. But his mouth wasn’t stitched shut, and she didn’t
think his head was shaved, either. It was hard to tell, with the hood up, whether she was
seeing shadows or dark hair."
Elna wrote: "From City of Fallen Angels (Ch. 6):"The Silent Brother pushed his hood back very slightly from his face. Clary held back a start of surprise. He didn’t look like Brother Jeremiah had, with his hollowed eyes and stitched mouth. ..."
Thank u. I need to read my book again.
Jade wrote: "I dont know if Woolsey is a good authority on love. he seems rather cynical about everything. or maybe he was a romantic, believing love is only between two people. "I wonder if Woolsey believes in love.... His relationship with Magnus is not a lovey dovey one, more like 'mutual interest', isn't it?
Nurlely wrote: "Elna wrote: "From City of Fallen Angels (Ch. 6):"The Silent Brother pushed his hood back very slightly from his face. Clary held back a start of surprise. He didn’t look like Brother Jeremiah had,..."
You are welcome. I actually never read the whole MI series, more of an ID series fan...but always intrigued by the brother zachariah theories...found the chapter online...may read the MI series now just to see how all of this will play out..especially the the dark artifices...
Elna wrote: "You are welcome. I actually never read the whole MI series, more of an ID series fan...but always intrigued by the brother zachariah theories...found the chapter online...may read the MI series now just to see how all of this will play out..especially the the dark artifices... "I am intrigued by Jace for TMI and Will for TID. Unfortunately, I didn't find City of Fallen Angels is as captivating as the first trilogy. It made me feel like I was back to square one, with Jace being tortured again. And Bro Zach didn't impress me in CoFA. I started to notice him in CoLS (maybe because I was so in love with this book, I understand it better), hence comparing his character mostly from what I get from ColS. Still, for me, Bro Zach is less noticeable than Will.
Nurlely wrote: "Jade wrote: "I dont know if Woolsey is a good authority on love. he seems rather cynical about everything. or maybe he was a romantic, believing love is only between two people. "I wonder if Wool..."
haha, definitely mutual interest there, or more like mutual benefits.
I think woosley is too concentrated on running the praetor lupus to actually look for love. he just wants to do a good job and enjoy life while he can
Jade wrote: "But with Jem, Tessa loved his kindness, his music and his strength.Will knew Tessa's mind, but Jem knew her soul. "
that's a lovely way of putting it.
I am usually the first person to be upset by an ending, especially one for a story involving a love triangle, but, surprisingly, I was good with this one. I was even prepared to be disappointed and cry for the distress of my favorite character (I am usually the one to fall in love with minor characters...luckily Jem was more a supporting rather than a minor character). However, I was pleased. I probably shouldn't be, but I am because what Cassandra Clare did was totally out of the blue and she broke out of the mold with that ending.I mean, how many times do we read about the girl getting with the "bad" boy in the end? Or when one of the love interests has a fatal flaw that automatically takes him/her out of the running? Or even that the girl has to CHOOSE between any amount of suitors for whom she has feelings? I've always wanted to know how an author would address a triangle wherein the girl/boy actually does love both love interests.
But that was a slight tangent. The thing is, this is fiction and with fiction anything is possible. Hell, I'm sure such a thing could happen in real life (minus the immortality thing), which is why there is such a thing as threesomes ;)
As for ethics/morals, I don't consider Tessa's choices to be terribly wrong or hurtful, nor do I begrudge Will and Jem for choosing to be with a woman they knew loved them both. Love is a two-way street, folks. They chose to be together. I also discourage slut-shaming. Respect your fellow ladies! (I never thought I would say that in reference to a fictional character, especially as I am usually cursing out most YA female protagonists for their stupidity).
TBH, I feel a little like a hypocrite because not too long ago I was shaking my head at Tessa's quick changes of heart. However, that was before she fully understood her feelings for both boys and thinking about it, if I were in her shoes, I'd probably act the same. Hopefully not, but there is always the possibility. So, what I'm saying is that I have accepted her divided heart. Love is a series of chemical reactions along a hormonal pathway as it is, so why would it be strange to love two people at once?
I wish i could be more concise and clear with my thoughts on this, but I guess a part of me is conflicted about how I feel about this series anyway. Oh well, I should stop my ranting now. It sure feels good to get my thoughts out there though :)
Tara wrote: "Can we all please talk about how HEARTBREAKING Will's death was? I don't think I'll ever be able to recover from that death"well for me, it was bound to happen 'cause Tessa's immortal.
but that was very sad i cried a lot of tears
Tara wrote: "Can we all please talk about how HEARTBREAKING Will's death was? I don't think I'll ever be able to recover from that death"So sorry about that. It was indeed a heart wrenching moment. I would be incredibly happy should I have not read anything about Will's death or for that part to be left alone. But Will had his happy moments and died of old age. You can read about that more than forget the Epilogue.
Shirley wrote: "Jade wrote: "But with Jem, Tessa loved his kindness, his music and his strength.Will knew Tessa's mind, but Jem knew her soul. "
that's a lovely way of putting it."
Thank you!!
Im glad i make sense, i just wanted others to understand how she could be in love with both at the same time
Melanie wrote: "I really hope they find a way in City of Heavenly Fire to make Tessa mortal. "I don't think that in City of Heavenly Fire, Tessa will be made mortal because TMI takes place in 2007. The epilogue in Clockwork Princess takes place in 2008. So my guess is that in City of Heavenly Fire,a cure is found for Jem by Clary,Jace etc. Jem said that he didn't find the cure himself but it was found. Also,Jem said that the story about the cure( Or something along the lines....I can't remember..I gave CP2 to my friend to read..)would include the Fairchilds, Lightwoods and Herondales.
Although I don't believe a "cure" for Tessa's immortality will be found,but I too, would want Tessa to be mortal as well.
Panya wrote: "...my guess is that in City of Heavenly Fire,a cure is found for Jem by Clary,Jace etc. Jem said that he didn't find the cure himself but it was found. "I'm betting that the cure was in the book of the white the whole time. Magnus probably finds it at some point, now that he actually HAS it. He wouldn't have been able to get his hands on it back in the 1800's, and the Nephilim never seem to read the dang thing.
Or maybe not... I hadn't seen this Q/A from Cassie yet. I'm probably wrong about the Book of the White... lolhttp://cassandraclare.tumblr.com/post...
Why is everyone being so harsh on Tessa?, just because she loved more than one person. Itis possible to love more than one person in your life, how old are you people, like 12, life goes on and you have to move on with it. Tessa loved both Will and Jem and it's not like she got it on with Jem right after Will died is it, Will died ages before Jem came back to being himself. What difference does it make if she was in love with a new person or Jem? And why is it bad that they both ended up with Tessa at some point, i thought it was genius personally and made me very glad i'd read the series. The ending gave us hope for Tessa to be happy again. Anyone who thinks Tessa loved Will more obviously didn't read Clockwork princess properly; Tessa cared for them both equally, just for different reasons. She loved Will for his words and their mutual love of books and she loved Jem because of his inner strength and unique kindness. What's wrong with that? Plus Will and Jem didnt have an issue with it so then why should the fans. I say suck it up, both boys deserved a good ending, and they both got one, Clare always said it would be a bittersweet ending, and it was. I really don't see what the problem is. Honestly the first time i have ever been satisfied at the end of a love triangle xxx
I think that Will and Jem shared one soul. Tessa (view spoiler) I think the real love story was Will and Jem.
Juliebird wrote: "I think that Will and Jem shared one soul. Tessa [spoilers removed] I think the real love story was Will and Jem."I agree, Will and Jem had the most important and beautiful relationship x
Nurlely wrote: "Krista (One Love) (Critical) wrote: "Same. It makes her love for Will seem cheap. "I think the Epilogue is such an anti-climax to the awesome story.
Is there any part that explained about how J..."
He never had stitches on his mouth remember
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