Clockwork Princess
discussion
CLOCKWORK PRINCESS!!! What did you think????
Ashley wrote: "Final_Fantasia wrote: "Christina wrote: "Love between Tessa and Will is like magic, it's the reason why I've read this books. But the end ruined everything!!! As for me, Will did not die of natural..."I can only disagree, she loved them both, what is so hard to understand about that? The reason she was with Will was because Jem was a silent brother and she loved Will. Then Wil was dead and Jem came back to her, why shouldn't she be with the only other man she has ever loved? So a girl can only love one person in all of forever, thats a bit unfair isn't it x
BridieJ*mentaltastic*dragon-Ducks are EVIL ;) x wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Final_Fantasia wrote: "Christina wrote: "Love between Tessa and Will is like magic, it's the reason why I've read this books. But the end ruined everything!!! As for me, Will did not..."What's hard to understand is that she loved both of them equally. Yeah I know she loved Jem, but I never got the feeling that it was as close to her feelings for Will. They were different. And I don't think that she should never have found love again, I'm sayin that it feels wrong that she got to be with will and Jem. Like someone said before, it feels like a cop out.
Ashley wrote: "BridieJ*mentaltastic*dragon-Ducks are EVIL ;) x wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Final_Fantasia wrote: "Christina wrote: "Love between Tessa and Will is like magic, it's the reason why I've read this books. ..."But you say that because your a Will fan, if she'd ended up with Will in the end then you probably wouldn't mind. I'm not saying your argument isn't valid, but i got the impression she loved them both equally, i see no reason that she loved Will more. Both couples had the same amount of passion, if anything she thought about Jem more than she did Will, and i actually read it three times just to see. I'd hoped that people would just be happy that both boys got a good ending, but people are blaming Tessa and i don't think thats fair at all. Will may have been the OBVIOUS choice, but i still think she loved Jem the same amount, especially after that scene when he played her that song. I say screw the conventions of what is considered 'right', let the girl love two bloody brilliant boys. As i said before, Will and Jem were fine with Tessa loving them both so why cant the fans get the hell over it x
Jessica wrote: "I LOVED it! Sooooooooo happy with the end but isn't it a bit selfish of Tessa to be with both of them, I mean, you can't have your cake and eat it, can you? coz Tessa certainly did. *envious*"perhaps it was a message of hope that maybe we CAN have our cake and eat it too, lol. or it's just a way to have a happy ending to escape to since in the real world, happy endings aren't always the norm.
BridieJ*mentaltastic*dragon-Ducks are EVIL ;) x wrote: "Ashley wrote: "BridieJ*mentaltastic*dragon-Ducks are EVIL ;) x wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Final_Fantasia wrote: "Christina wrote: "Love between Tessa and Will is like magic, it's the reason why I've re..."Its not all because im a Will fan. Actually if will and Jem had been reversed, I still wouldn't like it because she still would have been with both of them. I know that Jem and Will wanted her to be happy and that they would be okay with it, but I'm just saying that this is how I feel.
Ashley wrote: "BridieJ*mentaltastic*dragon-Ducks are EVIL ;) x wrote: "Ashley wrote: "BridieJ*mentaltastic*dragon-Ducks are EVIL ;) x wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Final_Fantasia wrote: "Christina wrote: "Love between T..."Thats fair, it's you're opinion, i just don't get it. But thats just because i know what it's like to love two people, and also i loved both Will and Jem equally so i get that too x
I know a lot of people liked how she got both in the end, but I don't. I know she didn't betray will, but I feel like she did. I know she loves Jem, but throughout the series, I read about how perfect her and will are and it makes me feel like with their love he should have been the only one. I know she loves Jem but I feel like its more of a brotherly way. How it ends with her kissing Jem makes it seem like she always would have chosen Jem over will, which she did Cause she only chose will since Jem became a silent brother, which is not how it should be!!!!
^It does beg the question: would Tessa have still married Will if Jem had been cured and not a SB? I hope someone asks Cassie that.
Abby wrote: "I know a lot of people liked how she got both in the end, but I don't. I know she didn't betray will, but I feel like she did. I know she loves Jem, but throughout the series, I read about how perf..."It feels like something is wrong. Reading CA and CP with the impression that Tessa is always rooting for Will and is miserable and in pain without him, even with Jem's love for her. Suddenly we are served with the Epilogue with Tessa claiming her forever (never stopped) love for Jem.
It was Will, Will and Will for Tessa in 2 books, and Jem's love was not enough for her. She didn't even bother to take some mourning period with Jem's death. She had sex with Will! How can that be an equal love as the Epilogue tells us?
Rose wrote: "^It does beg the question: would Tessa have still married Will if Jem had been cured and not a SB? I hope someone asks Cassie that."That is interesting. Cassie follows her tumblr diligently. There is a polling there about which character fans care mostly. Will is no. 1.
I wonder if she will give an answer that can means unhappiness for Will's fans.
YAY!!!! Go Will!!!!
Then what should have been the alternate ending be? Come on, I'm curious! Would you guys have rather let Jem die then? Or should Will have become a Silent Bro? Or should Tessa have sacrificed her own love so as not to hurt either of the boys?Or maybe Jem should have stayed a Silent Bro and Tessa and Jem would talk about Will every year at the bridge?
As for me...I like to think that Will and Jem were the true soul mates. They loved the same girl after all! Jem would live as a Silent Bro for the few times a year he'd get to be with Will and Will would...I don't know. I guess he'd still have to marry Tessa for those descendants. Ok, I just wrote myself the same ending...not feeling very creative right now, obviously.
I would have been happy if she had been able to chose only one, that way I would know who she would rather had been with, even if it wasnt Will. But really, I give credit to Cassie for being creative and giving an ending that readers will either love or hate. I hated it, but that's okay because I will still love the series and just not read the epilogue.
My preferred ending would be at the epilogue Tessa admit that she still loves Jem but loves Will more. After the years of being Will's wife and seeing Will die: Tessa has come to realize that Will was the only one for her :) Tessa tells Jem that they will be together as friends who have both lost something very precious :'(
I have mixed feeling about the ending. i mean come on, Tessa and Will spent over 30 years of marriage together, and i loved how Cassie described how beautiful their life was together and then Tessa goes back to Jem after 130 years. *sigh* personally when i first read the ending it was in shock, omfg i was so angry how could she?! But Will and Jem are truly have the most beautiful friendship, and now i feel as if it show how Jem and Tessa are still trying to follow Will's wishes by making each other happy and taking care of each other. But i just can't get my head around the fact that Tessa loved them both equally. How could she? After all the pain she caused Will before. sdfghjkl Oh by the angel, my feelings are a mess.
oh by the angel haha I love it! I'm still reeling in my emotions. I haven't read since finishing Friday morning and that really isn't like me.. I think I'm broken :'(
well, 130 years is a long time. and jem and tessa were still able to see each other every year of those 130 years. it's not so hard to believe the strength of their relationship, regardless of will. and if not jem, tessa would have eventually found someone else. that is life. most people don't even find "the one" until they've gone through several partners. if you believe in soul mates...well i guess i can understand why it would be so hard to believe that tessa loved will and jem equally. at least, if you think the idea is that you can only have one soul mate. i believe that everyone has AT LEAST one soulmate, but you can also have 2 or more. all's fair in love is how i see it.
and will was never the only one for tessa. that would be ignoring a chunk of the story.
Shirley wrote: "and will was never the only one for tessa. that would be ignoring a chunk of the story."I know, but it's just that Clockwork Princess was mostly about Tessa and Will's relationship and how it's advanced. But so have the others. It's a love triangle. Literaly a love triange. They all love each other from all ends and there's no jealousy. It's beautiful. And at least they're happy but still i just find it hard to believe that *sigh* Tessa was able to move on from Will.
But I guess you're right, Jem is part of Tessa too.
Rachael wrote: "oh by the angel haha I love it!
I'm still reeling in my emotions. I haven't read since finishing Friday morning and that really isn't like me.. I think I'm broken :'("
omfg you understand!, right now i refuse to read another book. all i'm doing is reading bits of CP2 and crying over it.
This was, in my opinion, Cassandra Clare's best book yet. She has ruined me.
exactly.. I think I'm subconsciously mourning The Infernal Devices and Will.. It just doesn't feel right to pick another book up!And I agree, CC has out done herself..
Me too!!!! I can't get into reading anything. I feel freaking guilty and sad when I try to read another book.
I still don't get why people are getting so spazzy about the ending, everyone got a good ending pretty much...i think the real love story was Will and Jem, they were my favourite realtionship in all three books, i could ave read about those two together for the rest of my life. Maybe a better ending would be no Tessa and just the two boys, i would have loved that x
It's true they had an amazing relationship and I loved their banter!
I don't see how the ending was creative. It's ideal, perfectly ideal so that Tessa gets a lifetime with both without ever having to choose. Jem being a SB was predicted by many people, including myself. Will was obviously going to lead us to Jace so he had to marry someone, and we know he was very unlikely to marry anyone but Tessa. I'm not saying the ending had to be creative, but I won't pretend like this was.The first two books were Will and Tessa, building their relationship, tearing it down, creating obstacles that stand in the way of their forever. They were treated like the main pairing of a book. The last book and her feelings for Jem just came from left field to me because Cassie never treated Jem like a true love interest. (Again, this is not Jem hate. This is a complaint on the writing.)
It's hard to write a convincing love triangle, even more so to do it in such a short amount of time. I think Cassie is a good writer but I don't think she succeeded with the love triangle. She can argue with fans all she wants but I know what I read, and I did not read an equal love between Tessa and two boys.
maybe creative isn't the right word...it's more like unexpected, possibly daring. although, i suppose a lot of us guessed that jem would become a silent brother. i for one thought that tessa would end up alone, which would have also been a slap in the face of the status quo. i actually liked that cassie never treated jem like a true love interest. the writing was more subtle that way, perhaps too subtle for some people, but i don't know, i guess i like that sort of unrequited, shy feel to it. passionate is great, but it's nice to see another side of love, one that is usually torn down in YA novels with love triangles.
i don't disagree that cassie didn't do the jem part of the love triangle enough justice since reader response seems to have proven that. at the same time, there's no denying that there is a character bias, and all of us are guilty :)
Agree with Rose. The ending is not creative. To 'satisfy' Will's fans, CC went on with having Tessa ended up with him. And Jem to be a silent brother.
To 'satisfy' Jem's fans, Tessa is back with him, after Will passed away.
What ruins the whole story is the idea of equal love, which was not there in the previous 2 books is served.
If the writing was suppose to be subtle, then the way Tessa felt about Jem should not be mentioned that way. CC might imply that it has always been an equal love in her tumblr, but that was not what CA and CP convey.
It is better to have just one love, Will or Jem. Each fans will die bleeding and cursing, but that's fine. Good story will remain good story, no matter how tragic the fate befallen most favourite character.
ok nurlely, you make good points and i agree with you. the writing of tessa's feelings for jem was so subtle, you might say it's almost nonexistent. i think only those in tune with that particular love story could pick it up and even then, it might not be as satisfactory as all those UST moments between will and tessa. the way i interpret tessa's feelings is this: she felt the love of friendship with jem (as shown in the bulk of the series). after spending so much time with jem, tessa's feelings began to change, but this isn't really shown in the book. all that's shown is her denial ("but this is jem!" "i shouldn't be feeling like this!" etc). i know that most people would disagree, but i think that the feeling between those two was so mutual and comfortable that tessa didn't think twice about being in love. it was less obvious to her...until the one moment where things change and your vision is cleared and you realize what was there all along.
Well the ending sucked. **SPOILER ALERT**
So I really thought that it was finally believable, you know, Jem dying and Tessa and Will finally being truthful to each other and Jem. And then BAM Jem's a Silent Brother. I was shocked, but then it made sense because in The Mortal Instruments there's a Brother Zachariah who cares a lot about the Herondales and had two people in his mortal life he really cared about. And WIll and Tessa's story in the epilogue and before that was really awesome. I loved it. But then I read on, and I really wish I had just left the last 5 pages well enough alone. How the heck is Jem back?!? I mean come ON! And then Tessa tried to rationalize basically cheating on Will and making it sound like she had always loved them both romantically, whereas before we were led to believe that she loved Jem only platonically, by using a quote that some random person had told her just to antagonize her? No. I liked the book overall, but the ending sucked. I was actually waiting for a, just kidding! That's not really what happens because that's ridiculous and goes against all that I've written in this series and the other one! but no, it was the end. It was a crowdpleaser, so that just in case you wanted Tessa to end up with Jem, you got your way. When you create a love triangle, you have to pick ONE couple. Not both. Overall, awful, ridiculous ending to a relatively good book.
Sadly, the strong feeling was only served in CP2. I still feel it a mess for Tessa to have ended up with Will and Jem. She should have ended up with Will or Jem. I might cry to die if I read about her ended up with Jem and for Will to be a silent brother, but if the plot has been strong enough for it to be that way, I would respect it more. Feeling so unhappy about the tragic fate of my favourite character never stopped me from reading the book.
I love HP so very much even though JK Rowling killed my fave characters. I cried when she killed Sirius Black and was almost died when she killed Dumbledore.
I didn't like the engagement scene in CP but I appreciate CC for writing it. I felt that Jem was not a bland character as he was in CA. CA only provided me with so perfect Jem it was so annoying. CP gave me a better Jem with colourful emotion.
I wish I didn't read the Epilogue.
asfjlasdjfsl k i'm sorry, but all of these comments about cheating and betrayal, i just...ok, controlling myself to comment.i'll just use caps one time here: IT'S NOT CHEATING IF THE OTHER PARTY IS DEAD. furthermore, tessa basically got consent from her dear hubby anyway. will has always known of the love between tessa and jem and i doubt he'd feel cheated if she moved on. although, it depends on your assessment of will's character. will is many awful things, but at least he is noble.
Shirley wrote: "asfjlasdjfsl k i'm sorry, but all of these comments about cheating and betrayal, i just...ok, controlling myself to comment.i'll just use caps one time here: IT'S NOT CHEATING IF THE OTHER PARTY ..."
I think everyone knows she didn't actually cheat, it just feels that way.
yeah, i know. i was getting a little overzealous :P
Hahahaha.... it's just agreement and disagreement. No need to feel so emotion.
It's not a cheating cause that makes the ending sucks, but the claim of never stopped loving is. And it is only one of reasons that makes the book better if the Epilogue is not there.
sure, but would it make sense for her to be with jem if she had stopped loving him when she was with will? it's not so easy to let any strong connection go. and maybe she did stop loving him in a romantic way after some years into her marriage with will...but she still loved him as a friend and as something beyond romance. and then after all those years seeing jem after will died...that romantic aspect could have come back. so in a way, she really never stopped loving him.
As a friend? "You asked me if I have loved anyone but Will, she said. And the answer is yes. I have loved you, I always have and I always will."
There is no other way but romance way she was implying to when saying that.
Even if she did stopped loving Jem in a romantic way after some years into her marriage with Will, and still loved him as a friend, her words did send a wrong message.
After I read this book, I didn't really know what to think, but after giving some thought, I kind of decided that the ending was pretty amazing. I mean, Cassandra Clare managed to tie together all the loose ends and in the first two books. She dug a deep hole with the Tessa, WIll, Jem love triangle and I feel like the ending was pretty satisfying.Myself being a Will/Tessa fan from the very beginning, I was a little pissed also that Tessa ended up with Jem again but now that I think about it, isn't love wanting the other person to be happy? Wouldn't Will want Tessa to be happy?
I think it's kind of like Jem giving Will and Tessa his blessing, if Jem never gets to be with Tessa, he's glad it would be Will instead because the two of them are bound even deeper than blood and parabatai runes.
If Will were to come back as a ghost, he would give Tessa and Jem his blessing because he would want Tessa to be happy and not spend the rest of her immortal life mourning for him. It has been 70 years since Will dies, and it's not healthy of Tessa never moves on. And who better to spend it with than the person who Will is bound with forever and ever?
Guys, this isn't about the ending but in chapter 12 (Ghosts on the road) Sallow shows Gabriel and Cecily what Benedict ordered, what exactly did he show them? Does anyone get it? I'm guessing it was a demon but idk.also does anyone know who comes into Sallow's shop after Gabriel throws him through the window? It's page 283 in the paperback, i just don't get who it is, since we never find out in the end...
I know the bloke who enters the shop was Aloysius Starkweather but not sure what B Lightwood ordered I can't remember...
Faria wrote: "Guys, this isn't about the ending but in chapter 12 (Ghosts on the road) Sallow shows Gabriel and Cecily what Benedict ordered, what exactly did he show them? Does anyone get it? I'm guessing it wa..."i think it was dirty pictures, like playboy for demons.
Nurlely wrote: "As a friend? "You asked me if I have loved anyone but Will, she said. And the answer is yes. I have loved you, I always have and I always will."
There is no other way but romance way she was imp..."
sorry my rambling is confusing. i meant that tessa has loved jem alongside will, but that it was muted, sort of put on the backburner, only keeping the friendship love during that time. i personally think she loved both men romantically, but i was offering a different explanation for those that don't believe that's possible.
so, it could be that she chose put aside her feelings for jem to devote her love to will, but that doesn't mean she stopped loving him. they were still friends and over those 100 years, she could have allowed herself to love someone else romantically again. hence her statement about never stopping loving jem.
Shirley wrote: "sorry my rambling is confusing. i meant that tessa has loved jem alongside will, but that it was muted, sort of put on the backburner, only keeping the friendship love during that time. i personally think she loved both men romantically, but i was offering a different explanation for those that don't believe that's possible."Jem asked Tessa about her feeling in a romantic way, of loving anyone but Will. She answered it in the same gesture.
I knew what you were trying to explain to me, in your previous comments.
What I said was, that it was unfortunate that we were not served with such romantic feeling Tessa had to Jem in CA and CP, not in words, where it would be clear for everyone to read, to understand. Alas, we have to explore and enhance our skill to read through the lines. In conclusion, our imagination made the decision for us.
Nurlely wrote: "Shirley wrote: "sorry my rambling is confusing. i meant that tessa has loved jem alongside will, but that it was muted, sort of put on the backburner, only keeping the friendship love during that t..."too true
Nurlely wrote: "Shirley wrote: "sorry my rambling is confusing. i meant that tessa has loved jem alongside will, but that it was muted, sort of put on the backburner, only keeping the friendship love during that t..."I don't agree, I definitely feel the romantic feelings by Tessa were the same for both Will and Jem they were just displayed to us and explored in different ways in the books. I believe that Clockwork Angel and parts of Clockwork Prince were the books that defined Tessa's interest in Will and Clockwork Prince expanded on her feelings for Jem. I think what gets argued is the amount and intensity of Tessa's feelings for one or the other. It seemed like her attraction to Will was instantaneous and more of the love at first sight kind of thing. Where her attraction to Jem was more subtle and developed as their friendship grew. It's all a matter of perspective and what the reader is more in tune with when they are reading.
Regardless, it just seems like people are so upset with the outcome in the epilogue. Personally I am glad that everyone found happiness in one way or other. For the most part I liked all of the characters and wanted a happy ending. If it is a cop out like others write than so be it, that's what I love about fantasy.
Elna wrote: "I don't agree, I definitely feel the romantic feelings by Tessa were the same for both Will and Jem they were just displayed to us and explored in different ways in the books..."Just a simple question. Did you actually read about the similar feeling Tessa has for Jem and Will in CA and CP?
To be honest... the impression we get from a story might be vary, but the actual words we read are the valid things.
We expand our imagination based on what we want to happen or think should happen. It doesn't have to be the truth.
Tessa's feeling for Jem and Will are not the same in CA and CP, literally speaking. If we are supporting our disagreement with quotes from CA and CP, we will see that the feeling is different.
I have agreement and disagreement with dear Shirley above, and we both supported our comments with what we get from the story, or the impression we absorbed.
I don't feel the necessity to start another one with you and act like a broken cassette. If you bother to know why we got different opinions, then please bother yourself reading our comments above.
Cheers.
I loved the entire thing. There was no way it could have been a completely happy ending, but I love the way it ended. She got to be with Will, my love, and live a full life with him. Then 80 years later, that whole time she was mourning WIll, she gets to live again with Jem. She isn't betraying Will because I firmly believe that Will would want that because one of the reasons he loved Tessa so much was because of her love for Jem. He wanted Jem to live his life, and not he gets too. It was beautiful. Cassie said that she wanted to write a story where a girl could love two people the same, and she did that. Tessa was never with anyone else and still remembers Will and mourned him for 80 years. 80 years people. Will is the biggest Jem/Tessa fan, and I think we should respect that and understand.
This isn't a typical love young adult romance, its better than those crappy things. I love this series so much and I am sad to see it end.
Ashley wrote: "Rose wrote: "Disappointing. Here is my issue. The ending was a cop out to me, but I would have felt better about it had I felt like the love triangle was written equally. A lot of people keep say..."
Then you aren't getting Cassandra Clare's point. You should read what she said about this. It might change your mind
Bridie-My actions good or fucking bad belong to me wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Final_Fantasia wrote: "Christina wrote: "Love between Tessa and Will is like magic, it's the reason why I've read this books. But the end ruined everything!!! As for me, Will did not..."YES!! And WIll would have wanted that. Tessa will never die. Will would not want her to mourn him for ever. He would want her to be with Jem and have them live their lives. All he ever wanted was for Jem to live his life.
To anyone who is interested, this is what Cassie said about the love trianglehttp://cassandraclare.tumblr.com/post...
Jessica wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Rose wrote: "Disappointing. Here is my issue. The ending was a cop out to me, but I would have felt better about it had I felt like the love triangle was written equally. A lot of ..."
If CC wanted the love to be equal, she should have built the progress similarly, from CA, CP to CP2, with the love Tessa always had for both Jem and Will, not make it as a contradiction of CP2 Epilogue to its prequels.
Why do we need to always read her explanation on tumblr? Why did the question was raised for her to answer it on her tumblr? Surely not because her fans are joyful with the ending.
Why can we just read about the story from her books? Without having to deal with her tumblr?
Is CC going to make this a habit? I hope not. For I need to know that before reading TDA. I need to know if the story is what is written in her book, or I needto read her tumblr each time for an updated story.
Nurlely wrote: "Jessica wrote: "Ashley wrote: "Rose wrote: "Disappointing. Here is my issue. The ending was a cop out to me, but I would have felt better about it had I felt like the love triangle was written eq..."
It's not that big of a deal. A reader had a question and was telling the author about her feelings and wanted the AUTHORS opinion. She's been doing this all along. It's for those of us who want to know more about the series. I didn't put it up for people to get upset about just more information for those who wanted to see what the author was thinking when she did it.
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What are talking about? Tessa loved two boys...OH bloody hell how AWFUL...what? I'm so angry at comments like yours, Tessa did NOTHING wrong, imagine if it was the other way round, would you still be so whingy about it. Will loved Jem, Jem loved Will, they both love Tessa and Tessa loved both of them. As Clare said Tessa made a brave choice by being with Jem, and that Will would have wanted her to be with Jem rather than alone. I am a Jem fan though so i don't know, her ending up with jut Will would have been....meh, it would have been boringly obvious and i'm impressed that Clare broke the mold by doing something different xxx Stop hating the ending, you have right to your opinion but i think Jem deserved a good ending just as much as Will did.